rogues and wizards...

[STARNATION]

Imo, chinese are overpowered and they should have a longer repot time

Chinese characters aren't overpowered? Are you kidding me.

[Epic.Win]

It will even out a little more next cap. Euros only have 2 skill updates for 90 cap, chinese have 10 I think.

[Barotix]

It will even out a little more next cap. Euros only have 2 skill updates for 90 cap, chinese have 10 I think.

Its even now, there are just to many rogues and wizards that truly don't know how to play. Same with Chinese. When you think about it, SRO can become complex.

[LockStar.]

with 10.8k hp I stand with fire wall, get hit 0 and use dragon flow to kill the wizard that has about 4k hp before it can charge its second nuke. ^^ yep i know how simple it is

although there is an easy counter to Firewall and there is a counter to that counter.

Good luck with putting up your firewall in a field full of players opposing your job with invisible wizards in between them.

[Barotix]

with 10.8k hp I stand with fire wall, get hit 0 and use dragon flow to kill the wizard that has about 4k hp before it can charge its second nuke. ^^ yep i know how simple it is

although there is an easy counter to Firewall and there is a counter to that counter.

Good luck with putting up your firewall in a field full of players opposing your job with invisible wizards in between them.

You job alone? Without teammates? Bad idea mate.

[BloodyBlade]

Imho, it's like saying a pure str build hasnt enough mp.

This are the things that make the classes unique, some people like the characteristics of them, some people don't.

[LockStar.]

with 10.8k hp I stand with fire wall, get hit 0 and use dragon flow to kill the wizard that has about 4k hp before it can charge its second nuke. ^^ yep i know how simple it is

although there is an easy counter to Firewall and there is a counter to that counter.

Good luck with putting up your firewall in a field full of players opposing your job with invisible wizards in between them.

You job alone? Without teammates? Bad idea mate.

Goddamn it. IF you are at east dw for example.. and you run out of snow shield, do you think you will just stay with your firewall up waiting for the wizard to come out while all the other hunters are Running around chased by my teammates?... atleast 1 of those hunters will take my firewall off, or maybe just splash.

Stop being smart, and agree that firewall is not a solution, even in 1 v 1 wizards counter it easy -.-

And yes, at certain moments I like to kill whole hunter parties at the gate alone.

[Progress]

And i'm afraid i'm the first one lol...tbh...i'm sick of these 'overpowered omgomgomg' topics...

You don't really understand.

Euros have no pots...

Cleric sub = recovery division, normal pots and vigor pots. Cant pot huh?

Wizards die from a single hit or two if they're lucky and rogues also die fast even though they're str...

What he said is still true.

when they use the skills you're speaking of, rogues are extremely weak..

Doesnt matter. Invis = they almost always attack first.

dont cry about their skills noone is crying about ur mana shield..

People have been screaming "he used buf" for a while now.

deal with it and try to find a way around it...

Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

if you cant then its just as simple as that..rogues can kill you..

And he basically told you why the way they do it, is a problem.

[Progress]

Damn..i'm overrun.. ..why do ppl hate Euros so much?

They are not hated. This is what you don't get. There is no "we" (chinese) vs "them" going on here. People are not claiming "overpowered" because they sometimes lose a fight. They do it when they see a ten level lower euro kill a chinese (there are other examples as well).

Think about it guys..if the cool down is made longer and skill time lowered..it'll be like a zerk and pvp will be extremely boring it'll be like *wizard goes in...boom* *10 second later another player comes..wizard cant shoot..

What?

[Progress]

i think that since i provided reason supporting my opinion, as well as a way to balance the character while not making it lose its power and purpose, i should think that anyone who provides an argument to contradict mine should at least go through with the effort to come up with logical reasoning to support their opinion.

This is something that is sorely needed on this site. However, since most posters seem to be 13 years old with a logical reasoning consisting of "lol, LOL, L0L, my rogue/wizard is ONLY good because it is I(!) who iz playing it good OMFGz THIS GUY IS A IDIOT!#! l0lZ?"

[tedtwilliger]

Im sorry Barotix, this must be said.

A smart rogue or wizard won't don 1v1 often

Who are you to say that a smart wizard cant 1v1 alot? Maybe the wizard likes to cape fight, just simply 1v1 with no team support. Maybe he is a very skilled group play operator who just likes to 1v1. How does that make him stupid?

[Barotix]

Im sorry Barotix, this must be said.

A smart rogue or wizard won't don 1v1 often

Who are you to say that a smart wizard cant 1v1 alot? Maybe the wizard likes to cape fight, just simply 1v1 with no team support. Maybe he is a very skilled group play operator who just likes to 1v1. How does that make him stupid?

Because from what I have seen, most 1v1 rogues/wizards do, hide hit and run repeat [e.g.] not smart because they can't think of anything other than hit and run. These are the same people that go "oh no rogues/wiz are useless now because they can't hide" granted there are plenty of smart rogues and wizards that do 1v1, but most are idiots -_-. [sry for what appeared to be a generalization]

[DaZzY]

Rogues and Wizards hit hard but they have shit defences, their buff decreases their hp, phy and mag defence so they die so easy.

[h33r0yuy]

the problem is u'r taking this from a 1v1 point of view, which doesn't work well with euros. wizards do shitloads of damage, but they're fkin twigs, rogues are also weak.

why do warriors wear heavy armor? they're limited to only that if they only took warrior mastery, which means that if warriors want to wear robes or light armor, they have to take a caster or buffer mastery. when party lvling, warriors wearing heavy armor isn't so weird, cuz all they need to to do is aggro and tank.

actually if a warrior wants to wear light armor, all he has to do is put it on.

the thing is this "fix" i suggested will hardly change group pvp since in a group fight you will only see a difference if the wiz/rogue lasts longer than 15-30 seconds.... which isnt very common. it will fix 1v1 though, which is currently pretty broken.

Rogues and Wizards hit hard but they have shit defences, their buff decreases their hp, phy and mag defence so they die so easy.

actually, go take a look at dagger desperate... they still keep all their hp. to 1-shot a lvl 80 pure str dagger rogue you have to hit them 20k+... even with their reduced defense not every character can do that.

[Summanus]

In the end.. It's all about skill.

[Marikit]

Everyone plays their rogue/wizzard differently. I can stand my rogue out in the middle of dw PvP for an hour - most lvl 80 chinese are afraid to even attempt to hit me. DD is solely reserved to kill any lvl 80 chinese who feels that they need to be double buffed - their full chinese buff - plus any euro buff they can find - weak weak weak!!! I don't have sub class, and don't find it necessary to buff myself...thats just how I play. I will fight you fair and square - if you beat me, I will stand up and fight again...even if you have all the buffs possible in the game. I can hit you 40k+ with out DD...giving up my defense with that buff is only to prove a point...your buffs are useless. On a side note - I would much rather kill the cleric who buffs lvl 80 chinese, but they never seem to be brave enough to wear a dam cape...

[PureStr]

In the end.. It's all about skill.

And gear.

[Marikit]

Oh ya! Kickass gear! Euro totally screwed with out it!!!

[ShadowSpell]

Im sorry Barotix, this must be said.

A smart rogue or wizard won't don 1v1 often

Who are you to say that a smart wizard cant 1v1 alot? Maybe the wizard likes to cape fight, just simply 1v1 with no team support. Maybe he is a very skilled group play operator who just likes to 1v1. How does that make him stupid?

Because from what I have seen, most 1v1 rogues/wizards do, hide hit and run repeat [e.g.] not smart because they can't think of anything other than hit and run. These are the same people that go "oh no rogues/wiz are useless now because they can't hide" granted there are plenty of smart rogues and wizards that do 1v1, but most are idiots -_-. [sry for what appeared to be a generalization]

and those are the euros trying to play them like chinese characters and have no skill AT ALL, I pvp all the time at DW south gate with my wizard, not once will I ever go to safe and I win 80% of all the matches I fight. Playing a wizard or a rogue CORRECTLY is an art and takes time to perfect, most players are still set in the mentality of the old school chinese play of pot war and hope for a crit, there are ways to have an advantage over a wizard or rogue and most people dont use them correctly.

As for giving life turnover a long cool down, that would completely negate what a wizard is ment for, they are ment to deal massive amount of damage without getting attacked, if there was a cooldown you would limit them to killing 1 person and sitting ducks for the next one that comes along, and also every class that has a large attack increase has very little to no defence increases, every other class has some type of mag and or physical defence buffs.

[ShadowReaver]

look, if no one can read my wall of text and actually gather the meaning, then just dont reply and make me have to reply back explaining myself yet again.

yes, i can 1-shot wizards. yes, wizards can 1-shot me.
yes, rogues can 1-shot me. yes, i can kill rogues very quickly (not always 1-shot, but pretty darn close.)

since when did i ever suggest that they increase the cooldown on nukes. i suggested they increase the cooldown and shorten the duration of life turnover. the skill that takes an already insanely powerful nuker and makes it so powerful that fighting them becomes a game of who-can-hit-first.

please, quote the words exactly where i say that with what ive said wizards will do lower damage.

if you read and comprehend what ive suggested, all that i suggest is a limitation on the use of these characters' power, so that the idea of the character changes from always having the skill activated, to using it when they need the power boost.

Damn..i'm overrun.. ..why do ppl hate Euros so much?

Think about it guys..if the cool down is made longer and skill time lowered..it'll be like a zerk and pvp will be extremely boring it'll be like *wizard goes in...boom* *10 second later another player comes..wizard cant shoot..wizard dead* "Damn i was a bit too early i shouldnt have used my skill so early"..it'll be like chess..

another thing to you: where does the assumption come that without the buff a wiz is dead? doesnt the wiz's hp and defense return when the buff expires?

does anyone here realize that a wiz without its buff isnt a useless character? i personally have been more impressed by wizards not using life control than when they do use it...

A smart rogue or wizard uses LT/LC or DD/CE spareingly. A smart rogue or wizard won't don 1v1 often. A smart wizard will use charged wind, followed by bind (and if you have snow shield: combustion) then finish with LC followed by Meteor.

A smart rogue will take out each member of a group with CE 1 at a time from a distance before they realize whats going on. The rogue will start with the most threatening member.

The Limitation isn't necessary, you're being selfish.

If you're going to target the 2 easiest builds to kill in SRO simply because all the noobs decide to buff~> invis~> one hit, then I'm going to target every chinese buff that is potentially overpowered.

Fire Shield: If you're not wearing a shield you shouldn't be able to us e this buff. immunity without shield? OVERPOWERED H4X.

arrow combo? guaranteed KB ~> OVERPOWERED H4X.
Using a hawk to increase AR and get DoT without a bow ~> OVERPOWERED H4X.
Strongbow is to strong, 2 crits can kill me ~> Overpowered H4X.
60% Mana apsorption? WTFOMGBBQHAX! Overpowered!
OMG Hp Passive gives to much HP ~> Overpowered H4X.
Glaivers have to much stun ~> Overpowered H4X.
Bladers KD to much and use debuff to kill to much ~> Overpowered H4X.
Ice gives to much def ~> Overpowered H4X.
Light gives to much magical atk and movement speed ~> Overpowered H4X.
Fire gives unrestricted immunity and to much phy atk power ~> Overpowered H4X.
Vital spots are to powerful ~> Overpowered H4X.
Why can Chinese use four masteries instead of just two? ~> Overpowered H4X.
Chinese nuker can 2hit pure str ~> Overpowered H4X.

Reasoning: Europeans are meant to be in a party. When a wiz or rogue activates their buff the party gets exponentially stronger, not to mention the amount of offense gained by the wizard/rogue is off-set by the amount of defense lost by that same wizard/rogue. This defense loss is then put into balance by a buff web set up by warriors and bards and clerics, etc. The wizard's killing speed and shyt def is the key reason why Europeans level so quickly, take away our wizard and you cripple all of us. The wizard/rogue may be able to oneshot you, but when someone 10 levels below that same rogue/wizard can oneshot them due to this so called overpowered buff then it is balanced. Europeans in this game are meant to be inherently stronger than Chinese due to a pot delay and their nature in PvM. Take away our firepower and strategic think tank and what do you leave us with: A civilization that isn't worth using because they level to slowly in solo and have a 15 second potion delay (solo penalty) and are best powerlvled by chinese. Is this what you want? Don't generalize because the noobs on your server can't PvP. Wizards/rogues are killed so easily with or without their buff because most can't fight well and thats due to them injecting a chinese spirit into a character not meant to be played that way.

There are countless ways to defeat a rogue/wizard, SRO isn't rocket science (or so i thought ).

PM Da_Realist i don't feel like explaining it >.>

dam i love ur explanations
+1
i rarely use life turnover in pvp.. just in generals party. i rather increase my survivability a bit, and use my wits. if i fight an int chinese without snow shield most chances i 1 hit him without life turnover if he's not suned if i have +5 staff(maybe u wanna lower my base dmg too ? ). if it's an str char i might need to use the charged wind/bind/fear and hope they work (if they dont, i'll probably die), and in some other desperate situations use my bless spell.. so as barotix said, lt is mainly to use in parties, not solo. and the game is perfectly balanced. try to make a wiz char if you think it's damn easy. u'll understand.