My thoughts that really dont matter, but o well.

[JacksColon]

I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because of this section. It's quite simple really, don't cheat, and you won't get scammed.

Saying botter contribute to the community just as much as anyone may be true, but an all legit community is better. Simple example to prove that. Compare the community of a jail with a nice suburban community... No matter how nice the people in jail are, they are still inclined to lie cheat, steal, etc... Lies, although entertaining aren't something one would call a feature of a great community.

Let's face it, cheaters like to show off even if they don't deserve it...for example, Juey spammed like mad about his rogue that got powerleveled to 64+...really wasn't that great. IowU (and I even like that person) was talking smack about his rogue that was plvled to like 72...(even if he backed it up in his vids, he still didn't make it to 80 the right way). I don't even know BF and I assume 6.5k post count = spam in one way or another..even old mods have less...even smurf had less at that time...and that says alot.

I hope to see less "I am so great" posts now that botters are gone, because legits obviously care less about being the best, although we often are better.

Wow, I cannot believe you just made that comparison. Are you serious?

[NuclearSilo]

+1 @Fudge that war is not necessary.

There are 2 sides: love & rule.
Some ppl judge things using the heart.
Some ppl judge things using the rule.

And Im a person that judge things using the heart. If, for exemple, my girlfriend/wife did a crime, I'll protect her no matter what, even turning myself as guilty as her for not calling the police.

When u are in a court, the judge will NOT always use rules/laws to judge a certains crime. But will judge depends on the cause of the crime.

If u still not understand: person A killed the person B by accident, is different than person A killed person B by purpose. Killing is killing (in the view of law). But still, why there is a different (heart)?

[torinchibi]

I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because of this section. It's quite simple really, don't cheat, and you won't get scammed.

Saying botter contribute to the community just as much as anyone may be true, but an all legit community is better. Simple example to prove that. Compare the community of a jail with a nice suburban community... No matter how nice the people in jail are, they are still inclined to lie cheat, steal, etc... Lies, although entertaining aren't something one would call a feature of a great community.

Wow, I cannot believe you just made that comparison. Are you serious?

What's wrong with that comparison? It's perfectly fine. I am paralleling real life crimes online conduct crimes, and so it makes perfect sense for botters to be paralleled with criminals, and a jail community to be paralleled with SRF with botters (legits would be the visitors, guards would be the mods, and so on).
My analogy is prefectly sound.

[JacksColon]

I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because of this section. It's quite simple really, don't cheat, and you won't get scammed.

Saying botter contribute to the community just as much as anyone may be true, but an all legit community is better. Simple example to prove that. Compare the community of a jail with a nice suburban community... No matter how nice the people in jail are, they are still inclined to lie cheat, steal, etc... Lies, although entertaining aren't something one would call a feature of a great community.

Wow, I cannot believe you just made that comparison. Are you serious?

What's wrong with that comparison? It's perfectly fine. I am paralleling real life crimes online conduct crimes, and so it makes perfect sense for botters to be paralleled with criminals, and a jail community to be paralleled with SRF with botters (legits would be the visitors, guards would be the mods, and so on).
My analogy is prefectly sound.

Umm, no..no it's not

1) You're relating the CRIMES committed by people in society to the breaking of rules
2) Rules are not laws.
3) Getting banned is not the same as going to jail
4) Prisoners in jail are given a trial and a chance to defend themselves against accusations, which may be false
5) Botters that post here are not committing a crime


A better analogy would be the salem witch trials in the 1600s where innocent people were rounded up (mostly women) and accused of being a witch. Regardless of the accusation, they were often hung or burned alive. Those that "conspired" with them were also singled out.

Or, another good comparison would be with the book, "The Scarlett Letter" in which women accused of infedelity were branded with a large, red A across their chest, so everyone would know they were and adulterer, based on, often, false accusations.

Plus, the premise behind your comparison is that botters are bad people, when you cannot legitimately make that claim. There is no basis for such a claim. Hell, there could be "legits" on here that have murdered someone, yet by your definition, since they didn't bot, they are not bad. I just think this whole thing is stupid.

[Vindicator]

I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because of this section. It's quite simple really, don't cheat, and you won't get scammed.

Saying botter contribute to the community just as much as anyone may be true, but an all legit community is better. Simple example to prove that. Compare the community of a jail with a nice suburban community... No matter how nice the people in jail are, they are still inclined to lie cheat, steal, etc... Lies, although entertaining aren't something one would call a feature of a great community.

Wow, I cannot believe you just made that comparison. Are you serious?

What's wrong with that comparison? It's perfectly fine. I am paralleling real life crimes online conduct crimes, and so it makes perfect sense for botters to be paralleled with criminals, and a jail community to be paralleled with SRF with botters (legits would be the visitors, guards would be the mods, and so on).
My analogy is prefectly sound.

The problem with your comparison is that you compared regular criminal, which the majority of society views as felons of an evil crime. The majority of sro players do not see botting as a crime. The powers that be on this forum decided it was a crime, and there are those who believe it, but if truth be told, it is a minority, not a majority.

According to your analogy, Hitler locking up the jews, gays, gypsies and prostitues was ok? because it was his law?. Theres a grand difference between rules sometimes.

[torinchibi]

Umm, no..no it's not

1) You're relating the CRIMES committed by people in society to the breaking of rules
2) Rules are not laws.
3) Getting banned is not the same as going to jail
4) Prisoners in jail are given a trial and a chance to defend themselves against accusations, which may be false
5) Botters that post here are not committing a crime


A better analogy would be the salem witch trials in the 1600s where innocent people were rounded up (mostly women) and accused of being a witch. Regardless of the accusation, they were often hung or burned alive. Those that "conspired" with them were also singled out.

Or, another good comparison would be with the book, "The Scarlett Letter" in which women accused of infedelity were branded with a large, red A across their chest, so everyone would know they were and adulterer, based on, often, false accusations.

Plus, the premise behind your comparison is that botters are bad people, when you cannot legitimately make that claim. There is no basis for such a claim. Hell, there could be "legits" on here that have murdered someone, yet by your definition, since they didn't bot, they are not bad. I just think this whole thing is stupid.

Bolded would be wrong, as...and you can argue this but... witches don't really have any power, and thus cannot commit a crime they are accused of. Botters commit that crime.

1) If SRO was the real world, then the rules from the ToS...or some better ToS of a game with some sort of anti bot pollicy... would be considered the laws the players have to abide by.So breaking the rules would be considered crime in the world of SRO.
2) Rules of ToS = internet laws and what you are countering with is invalid. Sure you can't go to jail irl for botting but being banned from the game or SRF would be the internet equivalent, you are outcasted from the community in other words.
3) Look at 2....
4) So are people in the Exposed Botters section. Undeniable proof is like being caught on camera killing someone. You don't see criminals with undeniable proof being called innocent... you might but that's a crack in the system...like if Ryoko bots, no one can ban him because he owns the forum. That doesn't mean he won't be guilty of botting.
5) No, but killers that kill in another city are still killers, and are prosecuted in all communities where that act would be frowned upon/prosecuted. Now that SRF actively prosecutes botting the same applies.


Vindicator, we all know the holocaust never happened.... I can't say that with a straight face rofl. Hitler got owned btw...see where I am going with that?

[MrBow]

Back to the botter issue... just because someone bots doesnt exempt them from experiencing anything, by getting rid of all the botters, the community is being destroyed. 1 mod down (yes, i did it) another going down. And guess what, it doesnt stop there. More and more well respected members are going. The people you use to be able to kick back with and laugh about something in the OTL, or go to for advice in GD, now their sigs are filled with some lame ban and our faces are filled with .

CONGRATS. Proud of yourself? Bah. Tbh i disgust people like you, people who are that full of themselves. And about Syl, nothing has been decided yet!

viewtopic.php?p=995657#p995657
+1 f'ing one. BRB to reply to other comments

[Dian Jie]

OK, so... umm... I totally confused.

If you bot, admit or proven otherwise = ban from SRF.


Ummm, so where is the friggen grey area?

[Vindicator]

dont be so secure with yourself MrBow. Ya, i got Luoma banned, yes I know mods arent happy, but he was a botter right? I did the right thing right? Its a war on bots, suddenly its a BAD thing to expose them? And no, im not proud of it, in case you havent read most of the topic, ill let you in on it. I'm against the mindless banning of people.

[non ego man]

You guys keep bringing up people who were innocent or falsely accused in your analogies. Anyone falsely accused can have their ban lifted and botters aren't innocent, according to SG. It's really hard to offend me so I'm not going to sit here pretending like calling me a Nazi sympathizer somehow gets under my skin. But it is intellectually dishonest to make these analogies. Either you know that and you're just yanking people's chains or you don't know that and it'll take more time than I can spend to show you why. Seriously, I've spent way too much time here the last two days.

Also, just for reference. The law does see killing people as different. Killing someone by accident is called manslaughter. Killing someone on purpose is called murder. Not only that, but there are several different types of murder: Felony Murder, 1st Degree Murder; Heat-of-the-Moment Murder. All of these have different penalties. Likewise there are several degrees of manslaughter, also with varying penalties. In fact, some types of manslaughter (accidental) have worse penalties than certain types of murder (purposeful).

Now you've got me rambling again...

Ummm, so where is the friggen grey area?

Check the sig

[MrBow]

dont be so secure with yourself MrBow. Ya, i got Luoma banned, yes I know mods arent happy, but he was a botter right? I did the right thing right? Its a war on bots, suddenly its a BAD thing to expose them? And no, im not proud of it, in case you havent read most of the topic, ill let you in on it. I'm against the mindless banning of people.

Yes you did the right thing. Yes we encourage people to post proof about other people. The SRF Moderating Team is no exception when it comes to botting. In your post you HAD to add 'yes, i did it'. You could just add as well 'and i'm Farking proud of it, haha'. Do you see this link as well? You didn't have to say in that post 'i did it' but you did. Well, figures, i guess.
Besides, we are not banning 'mindless' users. I've seen users go that i rather don't see go. We ban users that are proven botters.

[Vindicator]

dont be so secure with yourself MrBow. Ya, i got Luoma banned, yes I know mods arent happy, but he was a botter right? I did the right thing right? Its a war on bots, suddenly its a BAD thing to expose them? And no, im not proud of it, in case you havent read most of the topic, ill let you in on it. I'm against the mindless banning of people.

Yes you did the right thing. Yes we encourage people to post proof about other people. The SRF Moderating Team is no exception when it comes to botting. In your post you HAD to add 'yes, i did it'. You could just add as well 'and i'm Farking proud of it, haha'. Do you see this link as well? You didn't have to say in that post 'i did it' but you did. Well, figures, i guess.
Besides, we are not banning 'mindless' users. I've seen users go that i rather don't see go. We ban users that are proven botters.

I said yes i did it because I knew someone would bring up the fact that i got someone banned for botting, yet im trying to advocate for a reform in the process. Do you see where some people may get lost?

[MrBow]

I said yes i did it because I knew someone would bring up the fact that i got someone banned for botting, yet im trying to advocate for a reform in the process. Do you see where some people may get lost?

Believe me, people wouldn't get lost. You've gained already that much attention. If you want to discuss any further (which i encourage) do it via pm or msn (pm me if you want).

Anyway thread can move on now. lol.

[Sagan]

Rofl! ! ! What did I predict? SRF is already full of E-Thugs and Internet Tough guys. Now it will be overrun with accusers and no proof bans. I have sat silent waiting for this because it is inevitable. SRF will die just like SRO will. When it does check out AION coming out soon.

Anyway to stay on topic here are a few questions that the mods will have to ask themselves before they go power happy as usual.

1 Who knows if that character is even in the same server?
-I can make a name on any server and post "Proof"
2 Is the L an i? Or is the i and L?
-Hmm the editor will tell you this but how do you know what the original character uses?
3 Who knows if it is the original person on the character?
-This one is a big one! How many people have let a best friend or a real life friend play their character? MANY!
--Ok so you say well you shouldn't let botters use your acounts...Hmm might I remind you of Fly? Yes sir he "Didn't Know" that the guy on his character was botting and he got banned.

It just seems funny that SRF mods care more then the GM themselves. You all remind me of that one hump back guy on 300. Rejected from having power in the game so you abuse it on here. I am not trying to flame but I think I need to make my point here. Just because someone posts a Sh*tty quality video and tells us who the name is (Like Itos video) doesn't mean that she is a botter or that it is even her!

I wonder which will fall sooner? SRF or SRO?

[XuChu]

I wonder which will fall sooner? SRF or SRO?

<<Cut the nazi crap ASAP - MrBow>>

[Sagan]

/Rant
Also I think this botting section is twice as bad as a flame section. Way to take your own ideas and shoot down all of the users ideas.

EDIT

I wonder which will fall sooner? SRF or SRO?

<<Cut the nazi crap ASAP - MrBow>>

It is funny how you use this image...Hmm who does Hitler represent in your argument?

[NOOB_THIEF]

/Rant
Also I think this botting section is twice as bad as a flame section. Way to take your own ideas and shoot down all of the users ideas.

EDIT

I wonder which will fall sooner? SRF or SRO?

<<Cut the nazi crap ASAP - MrBow>>

It is funny how you use this image...Hmm who does Hitler represent in your argument?

Himself I enjoin reading SRF eventhogh I stop playing for long time now. I kinda find really funny why ppl keep bringing real life to compare the the online game. But it's all good you guys keep doing what you do so i got something to read while i'm at work
@Xuchu I think that picture not going well in this kind of forums IMO

[Priam]

Xuchu, enough is enough with the Nazi comparisons.

[Nitrex]

Back to the botter issue... just because someone bots doesnt exempt them from experiencing anything, by getting rid of all the botters, the community is being destroyed. 1 mod down (yes, i did it) another going down. And guess what, it doesnt stop there. More and more well respected members are going. The people you use to be able to kick back with and laugh about something in the OTL, or go to for advice in GD, now their sigs are filled with some lame ban and our faces are filled with .

CONGRATS. Proud of yourself? Bah. Tbh i disgust people like you, people who are that full of themselves. And about Syl, nothing has been decided yet!

viewtopic.php?p=995657#p995657
+1 f'ing one. BRB to reply to other comments

This is proof Syl don't bot.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1702/notfunrr5.jpg

[Sylhana]

Back to the botter issue... just because someone bots doesnt exempt them from experiencing anything, by getting rid of all the botters, the community is being destroyed. 1 mod down (yes, i did it) another going down. And guess what, it doesnt stop there. More and more well respected members are going. The people you use to be able to kick back with and laugh about something in the OTL, or go to for advice in GD, now their sigs are filled with some lame ban and our faces are filled with .

CONGRATS. Proud of yourself? Bah. Tbh i disgust people like you, people who are that full of themselves. And about Syl, nothing has been decided yet!

viewtopic.php?p=995657#p995657
+1 f'ing one. BRB to reply to other comments

This is proof Syl don't bot.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1702/notfunrr5.jpg

Why in the world would I need bot credits if I did bot? I was a private member of 0x33 at the time, and using sm wouldnt require bot credits. But I didnt use sm, and in no intention gained private membership to do so. Did I leaked sm to members? no. I simply gave information for where it was available and updated the links for the benefit of my members who require them. I still adopted the attitude that if it was easy for me to search for something, I could do it for them (and I have never once replied on this forum to members who ask about something, with a snide comment to use the search button). I needed feedback from members to help other members. All info I got was from its source. Is it wrong for me to go for a harm minimization approach? So as to limit the chance and protect my members from getting hacked (from using keylogged progs)? Did I encouraged them not to? Yes. Back then I believed that it wasnt my responsibility to enforce rules that JM didnt. My views has changed since, and you can tell that from the inactivity of my forum since I stopped playing on Pacific, and became more active on this forum.

[deep.in]

Fudge, i agree with you. Ppl these days at SRF are like animals, attacks each other, ban him, ban her

[Sagan]

I simply gave information for where it was available and updated the links for the benefit of my members who require them.

Pro bot?
Pull out Da hammer!

If we remove 1 we need to remove them all correct SG?

[shoto]

i totally agree... this type of witch hunt doesn't really solve any problem. I mean i see the point of srf wanting to do this, but i don't think it is going to change anything. Truthfully i feel no different. Alot of the people banned i knew nothing about. Then Ito was banned and i was shocked, but even that subsided. As far as the banning goes, i'm indifferent. I don't think it's going to solve anything, yet at the same time i'm indifferent. I guess i'll miss ito's comment and views on certain topics but besides that...

[PR0METHEUS]

Why in the world would I need bot credits if I did bot? I was a private member of 0x33 at the time, and using sm wouldnt require bot credits. But I didnt use sm, and in no intention gained private membership to do so. Did I leaked sm to members? no. I simply gave information for where it was available and updated the links for the benefit of my members who require them. I still adopted the attitude that if it was easy for me to search for something, I could do it for them (and I have never once replied on this forum to members who ask about something, with a snide comment to use the search button). I needed feedback from members to help other members. All info I got was from its source. Is it wrong for me to go for a harm minimization approach? So as to limit the chance and protect my members from getting hacked (from using keylogged progs)? Did I encouraged them not to? Yes. Back then I believed that it wasnt my responsibility to enforce rules that JM didnt. My views has changed since, and you can tell that from the inactivity of my forum since I stopped playing on Pacific, and became more active on this forum.

I can understand where you're coming from Sylhana, but it seems a little fishy. According to the screenshot, you did say you think you have some credits left. I can understand you not wanting fellow members getting hacked by using infected bot files, and wanted to point them to clean ones instead, but in the end, it's still supporting bots. You're still helping them to bot if you're giving them instructions on how to use it safely.

I suppose either way, they will bot. It's a tough call I suppose. Let them bot with infected bots, or help them use clean ones - they'll bot either way.

Personally, I think if someone does bot, they get what they deserve. People don't have to bot. They choose to. You make a choice, you have to face the consequences.

[Tokughavita]

I read the first page, all I have to say is, unban Itonami, anyone who knows her knows she's not a bot, she made the mistake of trusting a friend to have fun on her account and they botted, probably 1 time, does that make her a hardcore-asshole-bot-to-the-max-I'm-LoL-better-than-u-nub ?
no it doesn't which are the only people who should be banned, I also know a lot of people from SRF who are closet botters but are my very good friends, would I give their names or expose them? no, because with the mods its a Farking witch hunt, let joymax be the ones who have the war on the bots, and stick to banning the assholes and spammers from SRF, this is a friendly community, botters don't automatically = asshole d-bags, get your policies straitened out and unban the people that don't deserve to be banned.

[TOloseGT]

sure thing, no one's forcing u to expose them.

all that's changed is there is a section for exposed botters. everythign else is ppl making a huge deal outta it and starting an endless wave of cries and whines. not the mods fault half the srf population are babies.

[crazy_foo]

pages of proof for some ppl, pages of nonsense for other people.
95% of the ppl banned from forums were people that admitted to botting.
then u have ppl saying it wasnt them, being sarcastic, saying they got their account hacked, etc and treatment and consequence is different for all. There is no equality shown thus far, some have more conclusive evidence than others and haven't been banned. Then you've got like 10 people jumping on ONE person because they KNOW they botted, but proof never seems to be enough. If you check the exposed botters list, theyre like no-names in these forums..cuz they really dont care thats why they came out and said 'yeah i botted'. Sylhana vs Luoma, not to be mean but sylhana seems in just as much guilt as luoma, yet one is still banned and the other isnt. Ito's chars been caught, instant ban even though it wasnt her on the char. The rest, came out and basically said 'i bot'. Crumps, Fly, NB, etc have scammed and been banned for botting, u've got like a handful of people jumpin at them in topics that get locked..why do they pounce on em like that? cuz theyre sure of it. Will they get banned? doubt it.

as for me im just gonna sit back cuz i cant really prove anything, i dont play on all servers and cant screenshot or fraps anything if theyre not on babel, and even then i WOULDNT submit it to ban someone here because its just not worth it. In-game, some of the coolest people are botters, there are awesome legits too, but i wouldn't do that to a fellow babel comrade..even if theyre in a guild i hate.

For the past year or so, people on these forums (whom will remain unnamed), have told me they bot. Other's have told me that they've asked someone for a bot, others have talked about it in vent, and word of mouth has just spread about SRF-ers that bot. I can tell you none of them have been banned yet through this 'Exposed Botters' thing, and they probably wont because as soon as one person who's a closet botter gets someone else banned, domino effect takes place.

personally, i wouldnt like to see any more people banned. It's just f*cking up these forums and the people that have been banned, aside from 1 or 2, they really dont do much here anyway.

i just had to get that out, if you read it thanks, if you didn't then no harm done.

I defiantly agree with what u said. I think it's going to screw over the SRF community and we don't need that

[Ryoko]

get your policies straitened out and unban the people that don't deserve to be banned.

No?

The same people who are typing about how corrupt we are until their fingers litterally fall off, will come say that we now support bots and its okay.

The other crowd of "post the exact same topic but slightly different words" will call it favoritism.

The whiners will come and say "those bots were friends of people on the board, so they got unbanned"

Your logic sucks. Sorry.

Persons toon fraps botting = didnt do it, unban.

Person who has no tangible evidence, screenshots, videos or any evidence gainst them = Farking botter, ban them god damnit, 5 people who dislike them and 45 people who never Farking heard of them want them banned, so BAN them or your an unfair hipprocrit dictator who plays favorites.

Good lord.

My personal favorite, is the topic in EB called "SRF supports TOS violations"

The hell is that, honestly. Grow up.

[crazy_foo]

get your policies straitened out and unban the people that don't deserve to be banned.

No?

The same people who are typing about how corrupt we are until their fingers litterally fall off, will come say that we now support bots and its okay.

The other crowd of "post the exact same topic but slightly different words" will call it favoritism.

The whiners will come and say "those bots were friends of people on the board, so they got unbanned"

Your logic sucks. Sorry.

Persons toon fraps botting = didnt do it, unban.

Person who has no tangible evidence, screenshots, videos or any evidence gainst them = Farking botter, ban them god damnit, 5 people who dislike them and 45 people who never Farking heard of them want them banned, so BAN them or your an unfair hipprocrit dictator who plays favorites.

Good lord.

The mod job must be tough lately with all the spam threads and ppl complaing and locked topics. Probably would have been easier for u guys if u didn't do this but that's just my opinion

[Ryoko]

Your right, it would be a lot easier

But then nothing would change.

As it stood, people interperated our policies as "Its completly ok to bot as long as its not talked about". That in itself is bullshit, but its the general attitude of its users.

No one feels guilty about botting anymore because its near socially acceptable.

Thats the part that needs changed.