Presidential Elections '08

[Reise]

Toss-up between Ron Paul and McCain.

I dunno maybe I'll actually flip a coin.

[dom]

I havent decided on whom I will vote for, some of the major issues I have are the taxes and how the rich are not be taxed as heavy as the middle class, I paid in $10,000 in federal taxes last year and just a week ago I figured out my taxes hoping to get some sort of a refund and found out I have to pay in $250 more, why should the middle class have to pay in 10% of their total income to federal taxes when the richer people in the country pay less then 1%.

The issue is simple. Their 1% trumps your 10%, and if it wasn't for the rest of their 99%, most of America would be making 0% of what they earn now. However, for the most part you're right - something needs to be done, the middle class is paying too much for healthcare.

I think a taxation system where you're taxed on what you spend rather than what you earn would work. The richest of classes would be able to invest there money, and create jobs for the lower class; meaning less of a burden on the middle class to provide for the lower class and gives the middle class some breathing room on investing for their childrens' education and retirement. America needs to become more educated for it to compete in an economy where your only goods are intellectual. The production jobs are all being outsourced, the kids are the tax payers of tomorrow.

the second issue I have is health care, the cost is becoming over burdening of many people, and medical bills are outragous, $5,000 for a small out patient surgery where the total time in the hospital was 1 hour, then to top is off many people cannot retire at age 65 since they cannot afford the suplimental health care to go with medicare. Something need to be standardized to make health care afforable of the average person. I was gald to see one of the canidates mention that all US troops that have been deployed should receive goverment health care for the rest ot their lives, that would make my day.

Access to healthcare and education is something that I believe every citizen deserves. But, the answer is not the socializing of healthcare - there needs to be a way to get funds from a collective pocket directly to the doctor without losing it in efficiency.

Public healthcare is like trying to transport water from one point to another, while storing it in a bucket you're balancing on your head. It's nice that everyone helps out but by the time the water reaches the doctors from our collective pocket, most of it has been spilt along the way. That means, only a portion of what you're paying is being spent. That is why I think insurance needs to be more readily available - they seem to handle things much more efficiently. When you have to worry about premiums, you're not going to waste a couple hundred dollars, and holding up people who are truly sick, because you have a cold and want some extra strength syrup. But, if you break a leg, need an MRI, kidney transplant, or open heart surgery - you will be able to get it.

[Nuklear]

You do realize your army, fire dept, post office, garbage disposal, and who knows what else is socialized.

Yes, and I think the government shouldn't be in those positions except maybe defense.

You should realize a city hasn't burned down to the ground yet, even though the fire dept is socialized.

Just because it's socialized doesn't make it good. Think of how much better fire protection and law protection would be if it wasn't a monopoly by the government. Businesses could compete with different service packages, competitive prices, and best of all customer support which you just don't get with bureaucrats...especially with our police state.

...Something need to be standardized to make health care afforable of the average person.

Here's a standardization for you: get government out of health care not put more in it. Right now we have a mix of social health care and free market and they just don't mix. In the free market businesses are regulated by their customers. If they're not doing a good job they get less money. Also, you have options and the choice where to put your money where as in a socialized system you have no choice. If fact the opposite, you have force.

Toss-up between Ron Paul and McCain.

I dunno maybe I'll actually flip a coin.

Please don't.

[Vindicator]

As long as Hillary is not president, this country will have a future. If she is a president, she wont have a future.

[Zypher]

Mine was between Paul and Huckabee.

Went with Paul in the end.

[AkillerNXC]

I'm kinda leading towards obama, just because yeah, I dont like hillary and a black president would be different. Something new...lol.

But if hillary won... would that make Bill the First man? O_o I'd hate to have that title haha XD

[Nuklear]

I like to ask a question of the people that would vote Obama: Why?
I have never heard, even on the liberal sites, kos etc, why people are going to vote for him except:
1) He's the lesser of two evils. You don't have to vote evil at all. His name is Ron Paul.
2) He'll bring change. This is never described.
3) Because he sounds good. I'm not voting for the American Idol, I'm voting for a President.

[torinchibi]

Oh right, Canada is socialist for having health care....we're just as democratic as the US.

Wrong. You're thinking communism, not socialism. We are a socialist state.

Canada is not a state.... and it's technically democratic, not socialist.

And fine, pay 5%, 10%, 20% for health care. You know it's worth it.

Canadian health care hasn't failed at all, sure it can use some more doctors and nurses, but it works quite well in comparison.

Do you really think health insurance companies will accept a bunch of terminally ill patients or someone with diabetes. Their health bills will be through the roof with their hospital and medication fees. The US needs to be a little more socialist and a little less pro war. Nothing good comes from war...except population management. I would want to see an american president that takes out some of those crazy military armament funds and puts it into something productive....like a gun ban operation.


Nuklear, if the fire dept wasn't socialized, you would have to authorize the extinguishing of your house or something....so they when your house burns out and you go to the insurance company, they will say they can't cover you because there was no attempt to preserve property. Vicious circle...


The rich should be paying at least as much tax as the poor. I don't see why someone with 20k income will pay 2k in taxes and someone with over 100k income will pay 10k taxes. You probably hve a bunch of companies that hire you for 99k per year, so you can pay 10% instead of 1%.. (assumed that 100k is the cutoff point for the sake of argument). Equality between men. Wasn't that some important american slogan?

In canada, a lot of the richer people, who pay tax, decide to donate the amount they are being taxed to, getting all their tax money into registered charities by using the system. That's a good thing.

[redneck]

I like to ask a question of the people that would vote Obama: Why?
I have never heard, even on the liberal sites, kos etc, why people are going to vote for him except:
1) He's the lesser of two evils. You don't have to vote evil at all. His name is Ron Paul.
2) He'll bring change. This is never described.
3) Because he sounds good. I'm not voting for the American Idol, I'm voting for a President.

It's cause he's black
People are afraid of Al Sharpton yelling for a recount or some shit because Obama wont get elected...So right now the media is all so hyped about him or w.e
Just ignore what I wrote I dont know what the hell I;m writing.

Bottom line is Obama gonna lose.
McCain or Huckabee are gonna win even though Ron Paul is the best of the Republican party. People are afraid he;s all talk. MAking false promises

[Nuklear]

The US needs to be a little more socialist...

You already mentioned we are socialized in many areas. It's bad enough as it is imo. You stay in your socialized country and I'll stay in my partly free country.

[Foilin]

Uhhhh, why a gun ban? gun bans wont do anything helpful. alternate energy sources on the other hand...

p.s: huckabee looks good imo.

[Doron]

I'd vote for Hilary just to piss off the people who would get a heart attack from only seeing a woman for major, so they'll die when they have a woman as president...

Hilary for President!

Or else a black man for president.. same reason as above...

Americans cry because they elected a bad president, to fix that they want to vote in someone just to piss off all the other Americans?

I realize not all Americans are like that, but when most of the American population interacting with the rest of the world through internet are preteen-teens that don't understand anything and make statements like this, it creates a bad image. I guess that's why America's reputation for culture and knowledge is so bad.

Maybe I like to nag America so much because I live in Holland, and can't even vote ye due to age??

[dom]

Oh right, Canada is socialist for having health care....we're just as democratic as the US.

Wrong. You're thinking communism, not socialism. We are a socialist state.

Canada is not a state.... and it's technically democratic, not socialist.

And fine, pay 5%, 10%, 20% for health care. You know it's worth it.

Canadian health care hasn't failed at all, sure it can use some more doctors and nurses, but it works quite well in comparison.

Do you really think health insurance companies will accept a bunch of terminally ill patients or someone with diabetes. Their health bills will be through the roof with their hospital and medication fees. The US needs to be a little more socialist and a little less pro war. Nothing good comes from war...except population management. I would want to see an american president that takes out some of those crazy military armament funds and puts it into something productive....like a gun ban operation.

Oh dear...

On the issue of state:

a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign b: the political organization of such a body of people c: a government or politically organized society having a particular character <a police state> <the welfare state>

On the issue of "worth it":
It doesn't matter how much money I pay, how much I get for my money is what matters. With our public healthcare program, the money we spend is not coming back to us, it's being lost in translation through useless bureaucracy.

On the issue of health care insurance:
I did say that insurance needs to be more available; whether that means a federal body responsible for insurance, or a set of strict legislation that reforms the way insurance works.

On the issue of more socialist and less pro war:
Didn't you just claim that were democratic and not socialist? What America is going through now is not a war, it's the occupation of two sovereign states. UN, according to Afghan immigrants, is doing a rather good job in Afghanistan. As a Canadian, you should be aware why we are there and what were doing in Kandahar, and realize that it is not a war. Assuming you know that, I will take into account that you are only speaking in reference to Iraq. The defeat of Iraq was announced a couple years ago, with the destruction of their armies and the death of Hussein, calling Iraq a war would make no sense. There is a, supposed, war on terror, but that's purely word play.

Nothing good comes out of war:
Although not a justification for -conquering- Iraq, there's usually always a jump in economic performance, among other things. Why have we not seen this? The occupation and rebuilding of Iraq is costing far too much. What they need to do is manage the situation and be realistic about what can be done for the Iraqi people. America has to make long term economic commitments; surging troops will not do anything except waste dollars, those dollars could be used to build an infrastructure, hospitals, schools, and restart the Iraqi economy. In this case you're right, nothing good will come out of it, but it's better to do the right thing, and do it properly, than do it half assed and leave - it's that attitude that got the Americans there in the first place.

On the issue of crazy military armament funds:
The US, since WWII, has earned itself a role within the UN and NATO. It has no choice but to provision its armies to protect itself and its friends. If it wasn't for America, we would all be freezing in our wooden huts, reading Stalin's autobiography, and selling our bodies for cigarettes. This role of protectorate is something the US will have to maintain, they're the only reason why were not yet freezing in our wooden huts, reading Mao's biography, and selling our bodies for cigarettes.

On the issue of gun ban:
Being a Canadian, the constitutional right to keep and bear arms has absolutely no appeal to me. However, it's as valid a right as free speech. Whether that be BS to you or not, it is what it is - and the same paper that guarantees them that right is the same paper that guarantees them things that make life possible. Handguns have been banned in Canada for a long time now, with the gun registry and everything, we are one step short of having the Gestapo knock at our doors and searching our homes for anything that may remotely resemble a gun - that sure hasn't worked in our metropolitan areas. You live in Ontario, turn on CP24 and watch the Toronto news. Remember, the US has 10x our population, cities at the scale of Toronto are common, and the violence that comes with cities that large is surely going to be a problem to deal with. Take the deaths in Toronto x every city that the US has that is of the same population or higher. Looking at the ratio of population/homicide is misleading, the bigger the city, the worse it will get; we don't have many cities that have crossed that critical line that demands a lot out of our police forces to keep down crime.

The US needs to be a little more socialist...

You already mentioned we are socialized in many areas. It's bad enough as it is imo. You stay in your socialized country and I'll stay in my partly free country.

I lol'd and +1. Because of our great nation, farmers are forced to throw out tons and tons of milk, eggs, cereals, etc. every day because they don't want the price for food to drop. Why must they starve lower income families, so a couple farmers can buy that extra tractor or two? They literally dump this stuff or throw it in the garbage - they don't even give it to homeless shelters.

[Nuklear]

p.s: huckabee looks good imo.

Don't make me throw up. This guy is typical religious fanatic trash. I'll back it up if need be later.

[Crumpets]

Dr. Ron paul always.

If not, TBH I'd vote Nuklear.

[Millenium]

Clinton was a perv but he did a good job.

not neccesarily, the american economy was amazing during his presidency so they think he made it like that

*img here*

I think being on the upslope recovery/properity did help him a lot.

He did a good job, the recovery of the economy just amplified that, it didn't create an illusion.

You're making it too political and hard for me I hate Economy class.

But then, I don't really care about his scandals. As long as the world is at peace, lets let him do w/e he wants.

[dom]

You're making it too political and hard for me I hate Economy class.

But then, I don't really care about his scandals. As long as the world is at peace, lets let him do w/e he wants.

You need to take econ with Mary-Ann Vaughan, she teaches business at Laurier and Econ @ UW.

[XemnasXD]

Ron Paul is an internet fad....while he says alot of thing do you actually think he'd be able to get hem done. He's an uber-conservative and we have a fairly liberal democratic congress. He'd accomplish nothing while in office and i don't think his foregin policy is any good either. He's not the man i want to see meeting with people and representing America. Since im voting Dem anyway and Clinton turned out to The Cloverfield Monster (see the movie) im going to go with Obama. Kucinich would be nice but i don't feel like throwing my vote away. Obama's got a level head on most issues we're facing right now even if he's a bit mum on gay rights and with him as President working together with congress they'd actually be able to get something done.

[dom]

Ron Paul is an internet fad....while he says alot of thing do you actually think he'd be able to get hem done.

Thank you for being direct. Although I will claim that I don't agree with you, it's only because I don't want to get shot.

[Stallowned]

Ron Paul is an internet fad....while he says alot of thing do you actually think he'd be able to get hem done. He's an uber-conservative and we have a fairly liberal democratic congress. He'd accomplish nothing while in office and i don't think his foregin policy is any good either. He's not the man i want to see meeting with people and representing America.

Semi x2

Sure he has all these fancy assed ideas. Have we actually seen any kind of plan on how he's going to destroy half the government with the stroke of a pen?
Let's even imagine he does somehow do all the things he does. Then what? Things are just going to fix themselves, right?

[Millenium]

You're making it too political and hard for me I hate Economy class.

But then, I don't really care about his scandals. As long as the world is at peace, lets let him do w/e he wants.

You need to take econ with Mary-Ann Vaughan, she teaches business at Laurier and Econ @ UW.

OMG Who are you stalker!!?!?!?

[dom]

You're making it too political and hard for me I hate Economy class.

But then, I don't really care about his scandals. As long as the world is at peace, lets let him do w/e he wants.

You need to take econ with Mary-Ann Vaughan, she teaches business at Laurier and Econ @ UW.

OMG Who are you stalker!!?!?!?

-.- ... You said you go to Waterloo before, previous posts months ago ...

[SM-Count]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in bringing back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

[dom]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in brining back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

AND GLORIOUS TIMES FOR CANADA

[Draquish]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in bringing back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

I rather move to Cuba than be drafted. Either that, or live underground for a while...

[Nuklear]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in brining back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

AND GLORIOUS TIMES FOR CANADA

ROFL!!!

[Foilin]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in brining back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

AND GLORIOUS TIMES FOR CANADA

... all i have to say.

[SM-Count]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in bringing back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

I rather move to Cuba than be drafted. Either that, or live underground for a while...

If McCain is elected he will work hard to push a draft bill through Congress and appoint draft favorable supreme court justices. Of course the chance of it working are low, but the probability for success is high enough that I'm worried.


Oh, and don't think Canada will escape unscratched >.>:

[dom]

None of them are real leaders, which is why I'm abstaining from voting.

Edit: But I can say who I don't want to win, McCain. If he succeeds in bringing back the draft there will be endless trouble ahead.

I rather move to Cuba than be drafted. Either that, or live underground for a while...

If McCain is elected he will work hard to push a draft bill through Congress and appoint draft favorable supreme court justices. Of course the chance of it working are low, but the probability for success is high enough that I'm worried.


Oh, and don't think Canada will escape unscratched >.>:

We are very clear, and always have been very clear, on the "No." stance.

Don't worry though, i'll take care of your womens.

[Nuklear]

[stuff]

Ahh, mmmm, soo many juicy holes....where do I begin?

Ron Paul is an internet fad...

Romney- 443,139- 36.35%
McCain- 361,546- 29.65%
Huckabee- 207,308- 17%
Paul- 84,554- 6.94%
Thompson- 50,925- 4.18%
Giuliani- 49,198- 4.04%
Uncommitted- 17,971- 1.47%
Hunter- 4567- 0.37%*

The numbers speak for themselves but I'll elaborate. Paul is a nobody, or he was before this race anyways. Not only did Rudy have the recognition, but he also had the national numbers. Look at him now. The MSM are saying if he doesn't pull Florida off he's done for, but I think they're giving him an undeserved break. His numbers are appauling and I doubt Florida will make a dent. As for Thompson, if I remember right, before he announced he was running his national numbers were good as well. Not so much now. Paul on the other hand has only climbed. Partly because that's the only thing that can happen when no one but Texas knows you. He's also the first libertarian candidate to do this well, you could argue Goldwater.
Sorry man, freedom and liberty isn't a fad.

...while he says alot of thing do you actually think he'd be able to get hem done.

That's actually up to USA. If I'm not mistaken almost all of Congress is back up for election this year.

and i don't think his foregin policy is any good either. He's not the man i want to see meeting with people and representing America.

I'd love to hear what you have against leaving other nations alone.

...im going to go with Obama.

I like to ask a question of the people that would vote Obama: Why?
I have never heard, even on the liberal sites, kos etc, why people are going to vote for him except:
1) He's the lesser of two evils. You don't have to vote evil at all. His name is Ron Paul.
2) He'll bring change. This is never described.
3) Because he sounds good. I'm not voting for the American Idol, I'm voting for a President.

...Kucinich would be nice but i don't feel like throwing my vote away.

This kind of talk disgusts me. Vote for you you think is best. There's no such thing as throwing your vote away. Our founders died for this right so you better well use it right.

Have we actually seen any kind of plan on how he's going to destroy half the government with the stroke of a pen?

Now that's the tricky part isn't it? The first step is getting someone sensible into the chair. The president can talk all he wants but basically has little power. Reform has to come from congress. If you don't like the way things are run be sure to vote for a different Congressman/Sentator next time. If you don't like the candidates run yourself or take charge in another way. Even with things out of hand now never forget that Govt is subservient to us, not visa versa.

Let's even imagine he does somehow do all the things he does. Then what? Things are just going to fix themselves, right?

Actaully, yes. That's what happens in the free market. No, it's not a utopia. There will always be human nature to account for.

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