why do people say rogues are bad for parties

/Pi · Post by **/Pi** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:55 am

With a smart rogue? Of course the problem would most likely lie on the other members. However, one of the reasons why rogues, or almost any class or player, is kicked out is due to stupidity. That's obvious though.

Why rogues at most? It's a rather complex build. Most players who are used to the ways of the Chinese race know only two builds: Pure Int or Nukers, and Pure Str such as Bladers or Glaviers. The closest Euro builds one can associate these are the Wizards and the Warriors. The rest of the other classes are totally new to most players. It's really hard to come across a well played rogue or warlock. This, I believe, contributes to the reason they are least preferred in parties.

MrBow · Post by **MrBow** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:57 am

Problem is, most people still think they only need real tanks and damagedealers in a party (+cleric). Rogues aren't as good in tanking as 2h sword characters. And they aren't as good in damage dealing as wizards.

JadenX2 · Post by **JadenX2** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:05 am

make warrior/rogue problem solved. warrior for pt play then rogue for solo grinding. this is what i did and its the way to go for a str euro build.

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:10 am

Prophet Izaach wrote:With a smart rogue? Of course the problem would most likely lie on the other members. However, one of the reasons why rogues, or almost any class or player, is kicked out is due to stupidity. That's obvious though.

Why rogues at most? It's a rather complex build. Most players who are used to the ways of the Chinese race know only two builds: Pure Int or Nukers, and Pure Str such as Bladers or Glaviers. The closest Euro builds one can associate these are the Wizards and the Warriors. The rest of the other classes are totally new to most players. It's really hard to come across a well played rogue or warlock. This, I believe, contributes to the reason they are least preferred in parties.

It can be entirely situational. Say you had a 7/8 party, two tanks, one is being the lurer, a bard, a cleric, two wizards and a warlock. Say the lurer was pulling A LOT of mobs. What would you prefer? A rogue who can attack one mob at a time, or a wizard with AoE?

Same party, just replace the lurer with another wizard. In this situation a rogue or another warrior would be wanted on a first-come first-served basis, because both are capable of luring effectively.

It all depends on the situation, and the people you usually party with.

William-CL · Post by **William-CL** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:10 am

(Ignoring others posts)

No Build is bad for parties. Some skills can be annoying for parties though, like Knockdown and knockback mobs into clerics or wizards that have area damage.

Nitro · Post by **Nitro** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:31 am

Blackdragon6 wrote:(Ignoring others posts)

No Build is bad for parties. Some skills can be annoying for parties though, like Knockdown and knockback mobs into clerics or wizards that have area damage.

Yeah there is ... Rogue is .. there is just way too much better replacement for him ....
1.He cant tank > Warriors Own him
2.He cant do dmg without DD/XE > Wizards own him anyway
3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him
4.He cant heal > this involves sub cleric , Cleric Own him

There is no good role that rogue is in party ... Period

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:44 am

Nitrozz wrote:3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him

You might wanna rethink and recheck that.

Fast Shot + Moving March + a competent tank = able to pull lots of mobs and have the aggro switched to the tank

blackh4t · Post by **blackh4t** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:44 am

The thing is ...

Euro Warriors are great tankers ... 1h Warriors are maybe the best tankers in game so when there is one or two Warriors in a party there is no need for more tankers ...

Wizzards are great dmg dealers so two wizzards are enough for a party and they do kill mobs fast xD

Clerics are buffers and they heal Warriors which are surrounded by 3 or 4 mobs and they do buffs like Bless Recovery Divison Holy Word and etc.

And on the other hand there is Rogue ... He is a fair tanker and a fair dmg dealer but he is not best at any of that stuff ... So when you have Warrior and Cleric for eg. you dont need Rogue ... You need Wizz to speed up killing process ...

That is the only reason I could think off ... But myself I dont kick them from a party if there is room in it ... But if party is full and we dont have Cleric and then Cleric comes wanna join party ... First person to kick would be Rogue to make space for a Cleric ...

And Rogues dont be insulted I still love ya

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:46 am

blackh4t wrote:The thing is ...

Euro Warriors are great tankers ... 1h Warriors are maybe the best tankers in game so when there is one or two Warriors in a party there is no need for more tankers ...

Wizzards are great dmg dealers so two wizzards are enough for a party and they do kill mobs fast xD

Clerics are buffers and they heal Warriors which are surrounded by 3 or 4 mobs and they do buffs like Bless Recovery Divison Holy Word and etc.

And on the other hand there is Rogue ... He is a fair tanker and a fair dmg dealer but he is not best at any of that stuff ... So when you have Warrior and Cleric for eg. you dont need Rogue ... You need Wizz to speed up killing process ...

That is the only reason I could think off ... But myself I dont kick them from a party if there is room in it ... But if party is full and we dont have Cleric and then Cleric comes wanna join party ... First person to kick would be Rogue to make space for a Cleric ...

And Rogues dont be insulted I still love ya

I've been in damn good parties with three tanks. Means more luring, and more cover for the Ints.
Get three wizards, MUCH better damage coverage.
3 or 4 mobs? lol Your tanks are pansies. 6-12 mobs per pull here. XD
Rogues TANKING? That's a laughable offence I'm afraid. They THINK they can tank. They can't. Peroid. Don't even try.

Nitro · Post by **Nitro** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:47 am

Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him

You might wanna rethink and recheck that.
Fast Shot + Moving March + a competent tank = able to pull lots of mobs and have the aggro switched to the tank

Howling Shout beats that , + he cant keep the mob attacking him ...
They will go on wizard / cleric / bard ... so why complicate life for yourself?

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:49 am

Nitrozz wrote:
Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him

You might wanna rethink and recheck that.
Fast Shot + Moving March + a competent tank = able to pull lots of mobs and have the aggro switched to the tank

Howling Shout beats that , + he cant keep the mob attacking him ...
They will go on wizard / cleric / bard ... so why complicate life for yourself?

Mobs will stay aggroed on anyone for a certain distance. Fast Shot a lot of mobs nearby, pull them to Shout range of the tank, and go from there.
And if you have a good tank, they'll very rarely switch aggro to the Ints. :roll:

Nitro · Post by **Nitro** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:58 am

Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:
Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him

You might wanna rethink and recheck that.
Fast Shot + Moving March + a competent tank = able to pull lots of mobs and have the aggro switched to the tank

Howling Shout beats that , + he cant keep the mob attacking him ...
They will go on wizard / cleric / bard ... so why complicate life for yourself?

Mobs will stay aggroed on anyone for a certain distance. Fast Shot a lot of mobs nearby, pull them to Shout range of the tank, and go from there.
And if you have a good tank, they'll very rarely switch aggro to the Ints.

Well if you wanted puller then every wizard can do it ... really it only complicates things ... there are way too much bad warriors ... and this is SRO ... people cant organise ... if rogue would do that thing you said ...
people will start flaming him ,or the cleric would die , coz he will end up running somewhere in backline... This is SRO ...

And anyway... its just easyer for tank to taunt target ... really ...
You wont grind on place where spawn rate is really low ...

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:16 am

Nitrozz wrote:
Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:
Necrobat wrote:
Nitrozz wrote:3.He cant pull mobs > Warriors Own him

You might wanna rethink and recheck that.
Fast Shot + Moving March + a competent tank = able to pull lots of mobs and have the aggro switched to the tank

Howling Shout beats that , + he cant keep the mob attacking him ...
They will go on wizard / cleric / bard ... so why complicate life for yourself?

Mobs will stay aggroed on anyone for a certain distance. Fast Shot a lot of mobs nearby, pull them to Shout range of the tank, and go from there.
And if you have a good tank, they'll very rarely switch aggro to the Ints.

Well if you wanted puller then every wizard can do it ... really it only complicates things ... there are way too much bad warriors ... and this is SRO ... people cant organise ... if rogue would do that thing you said ...
people will start flaming him ,or the cleric would die , coz he will end up running somewhere in backline... This is SRO ...

And anyway... its just easyer for tank to taunt target ... really ...
You wont grind on place where spawn rate is really low ...

Wizard cast time is too slow for effective pulling, and they're too fragile.
Yeah, I'm lucky to be in organised Euro parties then, where we organise who pulls, who tanks, who gets what buffed and communicate. Can't do that part with AFK players.

If you ever see an effective Euro party, you'll understand what I mean. :wink:

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:54 am

So far I've seen from a 2handed sword is mostly KD, which, in a perfect 8men euro party is useless (everyone except the warrior class waits), therefore, my view of a perfect party is:

1hand sword (Dull = the mob hardly hits you)
Dual Axe (bleed, more stun = thanks)
Cleric
Bard
These classes are must have in euro pt for fast killing.
Now, I've read somewhere that 4 wizzards should make the rest. Totally disagree.
-1 Wizzard / +1 Rogue (who knows how to play; also a DMG dealer)
-1 Wizzard / +1 Warlock (who knows how to play | Don't underestimate the role of a warlock in a euro pt; Debuffs - lower the mob's attack power; decrease the mob's phy/mag defence, ergo, the DMG of the whole party increases = fast killing | DoT, Stun, more Stun, Sleep, Dull, FEAR | SCREAM MASK - one on the cleric, the other on the bard so they dont die from the aggro they make with their skills - stuns 2-3 mobs sometimes).

nightbloom wrote:One of these days, I am gonna get my guild together and make a video/tutorial about how each class fits into a pt.

Count me in.

Cheers.

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:58 am

We were discussing Scream Mask earlier, and came to the conclusion that it'd be useful to put on a tank. Imagine all those mobs stunned over and over again.

I daresay I'll be showin' warlock off at cap first~ XP

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:04 pm

Necrobat wrote:We were discussing Scream Mask earlier, and came to the conclusion that it'd be useful to put on a tank. Imagine all those mobs stunned over and over again.

The tanker casts the Iron Skin = the cleric & bard are vulnerable. I'm talking about the survival of the whole party, not just the tanks.
:banghead:

Necrobat · Post by **Necrobat** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:06 pm

Astra wrote:
Necrobat wrote:We were discussing Scream Mask earlier, and came to the conclusion that it'd be useful to put on a tank. Imagine all those mobs stunned over and over again.
The tanker casts the Iron Skin = the cleric & bard are vulnerable. I'm talking about the survival of the whole party, not just the tanks.

I know, but a mob that's stunned can't run to an Int. Plus it's still aggroed on the tank anyway.

So if you have two Masks, put one on your cleric, and one on a tank.