why do people say rogues are bad for parties

[-.-]

Ok i know rogues cant tank as well as warriors or damage as well as wizards... and that rogues can do well solo (but so can warrior/wizards if they play smartly)

so why do most people say rogues are bad in parties? I find out i'm doing a lot of work when im in parties... I help kill pt mobs, and since i'm faster than warrior i can guard cleric/wizard from aggro behind them or just ones warrior cant get to

plus i can pick off normal mobs so rest only has to fight pt mobs

[nightbloom]

They also make great pullers if they have a bard sub or if you have a bard in pt to speed them. THe crossbows have a skill that shoots several arrows at once so they can aggroe a lot and are faster than the warrior.

[zZh4ku]

who said rogues are bad.?

[-.-]

heh the 3 arrow thing is lv 60, so by then most people already have people they party with...

but yeah before i was pulling things directly to warrior so they dont have to move, and half the time they get mad at me telling me not to pull since it isnt my job... like warrior can pull when he has 6 mobs hitting him

edit: hm just seems like people dont think rogues are good for parties since i get kicked for another warrior or wizard often... then i just ks their mobs until they leave

[Mcclane]

ive never come across a situation where someone wouldn't invite someone to a party b/c they are a rouge

[-.-]

no they would get kicked from party if there is a wizzard/warrior that wants in

[nightbloom]

There are a lot of ppl who cant play the Euro race properly. LOL I'd do the same thing you do -.-.

[Jstar1]

its because people are stupid. Rogues are great helpers in parties. They can tank to SOME EXTENT and are great at subbing in as a wizard. imo, wizard dies too much and you have to go in the hassle of ressing him every 30 sec

[Naigasakis_Rebirth]

rogues are not bad in parties, its just that they are the only euro class that can level at a good speed solo in addition to parties. How many euro-nukers do you know can tank and kill grey mobs?

[sama98b]

How many euro-nukers do you know can tank and kill grey mobs?

Like all of us

[Regret]

Lol.. Rogues are not useless in partys at all.. They offer decent tanking abilitys and rival a warlocks\wizard\nukers damages , If they have sub cleric they can res partners , Like for instance A party champion spawns.. Everybody dies except the rogue\sub cleric,(The original cleric died too), The rogue can res him...And you save your party a loading screen or pot refill

[ranger4life]

i personally dont think rogues r useless because they can jsut pull a ton of mobs and just snipe em all down,
and they are a BIG help in prty giants/monsters

[Niani]

plus Rogue's have a skill to protect others.

Poison Trap, set it around a cleric and any mobs that spawn near the cleric if their in the circle will attack you, saving the cleric a possible mobbing and death

[the_wicked]

Only time i find them annoying is if they always have XE or DD on, cuz they always die. Then the cleric will end up dying ressing him (at 3x, no one has a clue trust me -.-).
That and all the knockback. it gets on my nerves

[tedtwilliger]

The thing is with your average party of a warrior, 2 bards, a cleric and 4 wizards, rogues damage doesnt compair to that of a wizard. Also since a lot of rogue attacks deal knockdown ( talking about an xbow rogue as the example ) it can cancel out the wizards attacks. To be honest for this kind of party i would rather not have a rogue at all, 4 wizards or even 3 wizards and a warlock would be my preferance.

Though rouges have great effectiveness in str parties. The party of 4 warriors and 4 rogues ( 5 sub cleric, 1 sub bard, 2 sub warlock ) is where i see them as being very effective. With 5 cleric subs bless can always be activated so the need for a cleric could be questioned. Also with 4 warriors tanking the damage by using skins + bless + recovery division it also justifies not having a main cleric in the party. With this kind of party since all the party members can attack knock downed monsters it is where the rogues shine their greatest. For example if the 4 warriors are all 1 handed warriors, the rogues can use knockdown to give the warriors some extra tanking time and the warirors can then attack the knock downed mobs for extra damage with the skills that allow them to do so.

Not all classes are meant for each party.

[-.-]

heh the kb, i use it in parties by running to other side of giant so we dont run that far...

warrior hits it to me and i hit it back to original spot

[Berto]

Yah need em to pull mobs, then you'll be party grinding like a fully oiled factory with a continuous stream of mobs.

[torinchibi]

It's not that rogues are bad in parties, it's the lack of 1 more attack skill that doesn't KB or KD. Many crossbow rogues use KD and that will get you kicked out if you keep doing it, especially if one of the wizards has the mob targeted, but you can do it all you want if you watch which mobs they target. Dagger rogues are even better in terms of dmg, but not better than a wizard, and because they can't pull with fast shot, they become a weak wizard, and not dying is their only advantage over a wizard. They don't have defense buffs, and that's why people would take in a warrior instead of a rogue, since with buffs wizards don't even die.

It's not that they are bad, but like warlocks, they are not as useful because they don't have aoe skills to do lots of dmg, and at the same time they don't have defense buffs for the party, so they are like a chinese in a euro party, especially if they don't make use of fast shot for pulling, and ignore their job of protecting the wizards and clerics.

Most rogues are selfish, and that's really the problem. Bad experiences could cause party makers to turn away from inviting rogues. I personally would give any level appropriate euro a chance.

[nightbloom]

It's not that rogues are bad in parties, it's the lack of 1 more attack skill that doesn't KB or KD. Many crossbow rogues use KD and that will get you kicked out if you keep doing it, especially if one of the wizards has the mob targeted, but you can do it all you want if you watch which mobs they target. Dagger rogues are even better in terms of dmg, but not better than a wizard, and because they can't pull with fast shot, they become a weak wizard, and not dying is their only advantage over a wizard. They don't have defense buffs, and that's why people would take in a warrior instead of a rogue, since with buffs wizards don't even die.

It's not that they are bad, but like warlocks, they are not as useful because they don't have aoe skills to do lots of dmg, and at the same time they don't have defense buffs for the party, so they are like a chinese in a euro party, especially if they don't make use of fast shot for pulling, and ignore their job of protecting the wizards and clerics.

Most rogues are selfish, and that's really the problem. Bad experiences could cause party makers to turn away from inviting rogues. I personally would give any level appropriate euro a chance.

That is an all around problem for euro players in general. You got 8 ppl in a pt who cant get it through their thick skulls that they arent playing chinese chars. Wizards who shoot whatever they feel like, yet expect clerics to make them immortal, warriors who think they need to be the dmg dealer, rogues who think they can tank cause they are full str and lazy clerics and bards who think all the have to do is cast a few buffs and cycles and laze around the rest of the time. We see it all over and over. One of these days, I am gonna get my guild together and make a video/tutorial about how each class fits into a pt. (one of these days = when Im capped and bored. lol)

[s0017]

Most people sadly dont see Rogues as valuable pullers AND they can do decent damage and out live a wiz. I always get kicked for a wiz in a pt, and it pisses me off when they're lower level -__-''

[Jstar1]

huh I don't think rogues are selfish. Of the few rogues I do see in parties, most of them do their job right

[Renton]

Pull out a cleric rod and there. You got a party.

*Hold anything besides a cleric rod and going to a pt grind party in takla* You no join.(I srsly get these answers)
*Hold cleric rod* You join pt now.

A lot of people still think that clerics = everything. I think it's lol.

[shoto]

well warriors can make all mobs hit them... that is something rogues cannot do... rogues are very similar ot wizards if they are using crossbow extreme otherwise crossbow (at lower level) is failry mediocre


at higher lvls you'l end up solo'ing for the most part

[HakubiNi]

As a cleric, healing rogues has proven to be a pain in the ass, desperate, extreme or not. However, if you get a warrior or someone that aggroes more than them, rogues can be pretty powerful with dagger skills.

[Nitro]

I think rogues are really bad in party ... first of all
1.Pulling unnecessary mobs
2. Their dmg isnt really great without DD / XE
3. They think that they can tank but they cant
4. There are alot of noobs
5. I dunno , they just arent great for party ....

[o_rly]

As a cleric, healing rogues has proven to be a pain in the ass, desperate, extreme or not. However, if you get a warrior or someone that aggroes more than them, rogues can be pretty powerful with dagger skills.

This. I'd rather not have a rogue i'm my party if I'm using cleric rod and there's no warrior because using DD or XE they die even easier than wizards and it's hard to keep them alive... If they are using daggers they need constant healing and if they are using crossbow they do constant knockdown -.-

If there's a warrior I have no problem but warriors are scarce in tibet >___>

[XemnasXD]

It's not that rogues are bad in parties, it's the lack of 1 more attack skill that doesn't KB or KD. Many crossbow rogues use KD and that will get you kicked out if you keep doing it, especially if one of the wizards has the mob targeted, but you can do it all you want if you watch which mobs they target. Dagger rogues are even better in terms of dmg, but not better than a wizard, and because they can't pull with fast shot, they become a weak wizard, and not dying is their only advantage over a wizard. They don't have defense buffs, and that's why people would take in a warrior instead of a rogue, since with buffs wizards don't even die.

It's not that they are bad, but like warlocks, they are not as useful because they don't have aoe skills to do lots of dmg, and at the same time they don't have defense buffs for the party, so they are like a chinese in a euro party, especially if they don't make use of fast shot for pulling, and ignore their job of protecting the wizards and clerics.

Most rogues are selfish, and that's really the problem. Bad experiences could cause party makers to turn away from inviting rogues. I personally would give any level appropriate euro a chance.

That is an all around problem for euro players in general. You got 8 ppl in a pt who cant get it through their thick skulls that they arent playing chinese chars. Wizards who shoot whatever they feel like, yet expect clerics to make them immortal, warriors who think they need to be the dmg dealer, rogues who think they can tank cause they are full str and lazy clerics and bards who think all the have to do is cast a few buffs and cycles and laze around the rest of the time. We see it all over and over. One of these days, I am gonna get my guild together and make a video/tutorial about how each class fits into a pt. (one of these days = when Im capped and bored. lol)

its scary but im starting to like you -_-

OT: i agree with just about everything she said the problem isn't the Rogue the problem is the party. I have never been in a good Euro party...EVER. I've even been in parties where the cleric decides to stop while the party is being mobbed to try and attack (aggroing in the process) more mobs. The Rogue is a great class and a true benifit to the party when used properly.

If your a rogue and your Luring don't bother with dealing damage.

If your a Rogue and your Dealing damage don't bother with tanking or pulling.

If your a Rogue period don't think you can tank

Understanding how to use the Rogue isn't just important for people who are Rogues its important for anyone involved with and trying to understand the Euro Party System. Know the strengths and weaknesses of all class..you were meant to play together therefore meant to have each others backs and cover the faults in each class....if you don't understand any class but your own how can you hope to help the party as a whole.

[nightbloom]

its scary but im starting to like you -_-

Crap.. The apocalypse is at hand.

[/Pi]

The SRF community needs to collaborate in making an SRO Prima Guide.

Back to topic: Rogues can primarily take two party roles: Damage Dealer or Puller. That's it. The latter role is best suited for this build, especially when using crossbow. Kicking out rogues just because of their class is a very ignorant act. Even if the party does not need any more puller or damage dealer, a sub-class that specializes in buffing can still offer help.

One of the main problems, as pointed out, is also the tendency of using KDs. Warriors are not damage dealers, and they are one of the only two Euro builds than can attack knocked-down mobs. This annoys the shit out of Wizards and Nukers. (I have to confess, I've been kicked out from parties here and there due to KDs from my S/S Nuker. ) The only time KD is useful in a party is when there's scarcity of mobs - when there are competing parties. I'm not really sure if this works in a Euro party, but I tend to do this with my nuker, at the goldbot-infested Karakoram. Knock downs usually generate aggro and give us the kill.

Rogues have DD and EX for a reason. It's a deafening shout exclaiming that this build is not meant for tanking. Having a buff that cuts down your defense or HP for damage says it all - rogues are not meant for tanking. Unless you're on other classes' buffs, tanking is off limits most of the time.

[Necrobat]

Now, that's all well and good Prophet, but it's the people which prevent rogues from playing to their full potential.

A lot of players choose rogue because they're one-shot killers. So a lot figure they can use their skills however they wish, and as Str characters, they're 10-foot-tall and bulletproof.

Now, when a smart rogue comes into a party, it's hard to find a smart tank to play with. If a rogue pulls and the tank doesn't grab the aggro, the whole party dies. If they go damage dealer and the tank doesn't hold the aggro, they die over and over again, or get kicked for doing bad damage because they don't buff.

Don't even get me started on other classes screwing up the party. I ranted enough about tanks last night as it is.

But when you get smart players in a party, rogues can be invaluable. But the chance of finding a good party on most servers? You probably have a better chance of getting free silk.