Muay Thai

Love · Post by **Love** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:12 am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M3R4xtjl5b4

Ramon Dekkers one of the best in his early years think he is around 40 years old now anyways my respects to this dude never turn down a fight ever.........

DESOUL · Post by **DESOUL** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:09 am

Love wrote:http://youtube.com/watch?v=M3R4xtjl5b4

Ramon Dekkers one of the best in his early years think he is around 40 years old now anyways my respects to this dude never turn down a fight ever.........

Actually that thing there is really old and i've heard hes not so great, he just made a few wins that were on that vid but then got health problems and started losing almost all his matches, so the legend died long ago...well it actualy never was one to start with.

P.S. Maybe Muay Thai looks great but hey you'll kill off your health with it, better just go some Judo or AiKido section.

Krevidy · Post by **Krevidy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:58 pm

I like Peter Aerts better though :roll:

Casey613 · Post by **Casey613** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:25 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlzKb-0tT2U :love:

Draquish · Post by **Draquish** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:40 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy89IXco

Aikido ftw.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNMX0SvcK_I

Same for Capoeira.

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:58 pm

his record
Total fights 210
Wins 185
Wins by KO 98
Losses 20
Draws 5

aikido
Capoeira
are very uneffective til you master them wish takes years(30+) that is assuming you are skill, very dedicated etc.... making them almost useless try to use capoeira on a real fight after 2 years of training and watch how you get kick in the face lol
aikido
Capoeira = pretty but useless

on the aikido vid the guy was taking on 5 guys without using his hands lol may be force stay strong

BrokenSaint · Post by **BrokenSaint** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:17 pm

Love wrote:his record
Total fights 210
Wins 185
Wins by KO 98
Losses 20
Draws 5

aikido
Capoeira
are very uneffective til you master them wish takes years(30+) that is assuming you are skill, very dedicated etc.... making them almost useless try to use capoeira on a real fight after 2 years of training and watch how you get kick in the face lol
aikido
Capoeira = pretty but useless

on the aikido vid the guy was taking on 5 guys without using his hands lol may be force stay strong

Agreed very useless. I have to say, Muay Thai is the best stand-up MA, in my opinion. Unlike other martial arts, it utilizes all parts of the body: elbows, fists, knees, instep, etc and the clinch is the most devastating part of Muay Thai. However, you shouldn't train with stand-up only but also ground fighting. What happens when a grappler takes you out of your element and puts you flat on your back? Can you handle the ground n' pound? Or get out of a submission? That's where Jiu-Jitsu/Wrestling and basic sprawling technique comes in. A good addition would be Judo, especially against stand-up fighters. But if stad-up is your only focus, then you have to reinforce it with well-trained sprawling technique.

@DESOUL Aikido is useless in real life, but Judo is very effective. However It's only takedowns and we all know you can't take anybody out through just takedowns. You gotta follow that up with strikes or a submission move.

cin · Post by **cin** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:20 pm

lol.. is that aikido dude for real?

BrokenSaint · Post by **BrokenSaint** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:24 pm

About the Aikido vis: that only works in the movies lol. The guy just throws a punch and stays stiff until the guy throws him about.

On topic:

Agreed, Ramon Dekkers is the best Muay Thai fighter in history. "Fear. Respect."

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:11 pm

cin wrote:lol.. is that aikido dude for real?

if you ask me i will say no you cant send people flying around without touching them that is common sense unless he is a yeti and has master the force........

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:14 pm

BrokenSaint wrote:
Love wrote:his record
Total fights 210
Wins 185
Wins by KO 98
Losses 20
Draws 5

aikido
Capoeira
are very uneffective til you master them wish takes years(30+) that is assuming you are skill, very dedicated etc.... making them almost useless try to use capoeira on a real fight after 2 years of training and watch how you get kick in the face lol
aikido
Capoeira = pretty but useless

on the aikido vid the guy was taking on 5 guys without using his hands lol may be force stay strong

Agreed very useless. I have to say, Muay Thai is the best stand-up MA, in my opinion. Unlike other martial arts, it utilizes all parts of the body: elbows, fists, knees, instep, etc and the clinch is the most devastating part of Muay Thai. However, you shouldn't train with stand-up only but also ground fighting. What happens when a grappler takes you out of your element and puts you flat on your back? Can you handle the ground n' pound? Or get out of a submission? That's where Jiu-Jitsu/Wrestling and basic sprawling technique comes in. A good addition would be Judo, especially against stand-up fighters. But if stad-up is your only focus, then you have to reinforce it with well-trained sprawling technique.

@DESOUL Aikido is useless in real life, but Judo is very effective. However It's only takedowns and we all know you can't take anybody out through just takedowns. You gotta follow that up with strikes or a submission move.

what i like the most about muay thai is that it brakes your defense you cant just block hits the kicks are very powerful and ya i will agree is the best stand up MA

JacksColon · Post by **JacksColon** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:29 pm

MMA -> Brazilian JuJitsu ftw!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KK8YSyT6Dc&feature=related

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:46 pm

he is pretty powerful but nothing special about his fighting style good fighter tho

Yasakira · Post by **Yasakira** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:49 pm

JacksColon wrote:MMA -> Brazilian JuJitsu ftw!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KK8YSyT6Dc&feature=related

I hope you are kidding. You posted a Wanderlei Silva video. Just because he is from Brazil does not mean he is a master of BJJ. Silva's origin is Muay Thai. Also, BJJ is pretty much taking the ground game from judo and calling it a martial art of its own.

JacksColon · Post by **JacksColon** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:06 pm

Yasakira wrote:
JacksColon wrote:MMA -> Brazilian JuJitsu ftw!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KK8YSyT6Dc&feature=related

I hope you are kidding. You posted a Wanderlei Silva video. Just because he is from Brazil does not mean he is a master of BJJ. Silva's origin is Muay Thai. Also, BJJ is pretty much taking the ground game from judo and calling it a martial art of its own.

No, I'm not kidding. Yes, his background is Muay Thai, but he is a great ground technician too. IMHO, since most fights inevitably end up on the ground (in real life) that is a great set of skills to learn. NO ONE ever just stands there and boxes like they are in a ring. If you want to learn something that can really do damage and get you out of real life situations, BJJ is a much better choice than muay thai. and as far as Akido goes, that's a joke :roll:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C9cXGX0wxrk&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DkyIZiKOK64

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gHPVJ4UaKQE

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:29 pm

ground fighting is the shit at the end of the day

Yasakira · Post by **Yasakira** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:43 pm

JacksColon wrote:No, I'm not kidding. Yes, his background is Muay Thai, but he is a great ground technician too. IMHO, since most fights inevitably end up on the ground (in real life) that is a great set of skills to learn. NO ONE ever just stands there and boxes like they are in a ring. If you want to learn something that can really do damage and get you out of real life situations, BJJ is a much better choice than muay thai. and as far as Akido goes, that's a joke

Silva's skills on the ground are good, but no where near top class. He has 21 wins via (T)KO and only 4 via submission. Posting him as an ambassador for BJJ is not right.

Also, do you know how BJJ came to be? One of the Gracie's was taught judo by a Japanese traveler staying with his family. The Gracie's just took the ground game of judo and made it BJJ. All the techniques are the same.

Finally, BJJ is hardly needed for a fight. Yeah it can be used, if you are attacking the guy from the top. You can throw on a submission and make him give up. However, what do you do if he is punching you? It is hard as hell to pull off a submission while being punched in the face. Train MT and you're gonna learn how to defend strikes and how to strike back.

Caras · Post by **Caras** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:03 pm

[SD]draquish wrote:http://youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy89IXco

Aikido ftw.

Crazy ass Asians man :\

Love · Post by **Love** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:12 pm

i hope the next person i fight goes aikido on me try to grab my hand LOL !!!!!

XuChu · Post by **XuChu** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:41 pm

Muay Thai's great and all but half of it comes from all the full time Thai boys training their asses off since they were 5 so they are fed. Seriously forget the unknown ancestor of Muay Thai and thank the generations of athletes that make it what it is.

And dam all the BJJ shit, **** submission, seriously if you want it real why don't I grab your balls while you're on the ground and bite your adam's apple along with it. Win by submission is the most Farking retarded implement in ring sports.

BrokenSaint · Post by **BrokenSaint** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:48 pm

XuChu that is also a submission move lol. A lot of people underestimate the kick to the balls. But then if you wanna beat the shit outta the guy humiliatingly, then go for MMA. Think about it, some of the most satisfying feelings comes from submitting the guy while looking him in the eyes knowing he's in a shitload of pain and he has no choice but to give up.

And as for JacksColon's last comment, they both are suited for their own situations. It's best to learn them both. The best fighters are the well-rounded fighters since they can fight in any situation from the ground to the feet.

BrokenSaint · Post by **BrokenSaint** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:10 am

Yasakira wrote:Finally, BJJ is hardly needed for a fight. Yeah it can be used, if you are attacking the guy from the top. You can throw on a submission and make him give up. However, what do you do if he is punching you? It is hard as hell to pull off a submission while being punched in the face. Train MT and you're gonna learn how to defend strikes and how to strike back.

Actually it is very useful. If your on the top, the guy on the bottom will have a very hard time throwing any strikes since not much force is generated from the ground up since your flat on your back. However, if you time it correctly, if the guy puts his head down to rest and It's near your waist, you can throw some devastating elbows, but that can be coutered easily by placing your head higher, thus eliminating the space between your head and his elbows. If you we're on the bottom, and your helplessly being ground n' pounded and you can't sweep this guy, then this is where JJ/BJJ comes in. Those armbars or triangle chokes are much more effective than you think.

Now if you we're on top, It's your choice as to whether you'll throw a submission or strike him. It depends in the situation. A lot of succesful submssions come from being on the full mount. You can easily throw in a a kimura, americana, armbar, etc, etc. it depends on whether the person knows how to defend against em and that's the advantage of submissions. On the other hand, if the guy cathces you in the full guard and he is on top and he likes throwing punches, you can catch him off guard and pull of an armbar or a different submission move and break his arm from the bottom.

It also depends on the fighters style. If he likes to strike a lot, good for him. If he knows how to take it to the ground and smother him with strikes, that's a big plus. The beauty of MMA is the variety. The well-rounded fighters are the best. Some people know how to defend against this, but some may not know how to counter that. It applies a little bit of strategy if you look at it closely. Here is an example of what I mean Karo's fight with Josh Burkman. He throws josh around with Judo throws like a ragdoll just because he doesn't know how to counter them. So It's good to know several aspects of MA.
http://www.mmaplayground.com/mma-videos ... --791.html

Watch 3:45 and 6:07 closely

Yasakira · Post by **Yasakira** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:23 am

Hehe I know how to do submissions. I have a brown belt in judo. Like I said, when I am in control of the fight it is really easy to throw a submission on and make the guy give up. Yes you can throw a submission from the bottom, but like CroCop said-"Everyone has a gameplan until they get punched." (or something like that). You are not thinking about arm barring a guy when you are getting your nose broken, you are thinking of covering your head and protecting yourself. BJJ is less practical in a street fight that MT.

Also, BJJ is about fighting while on the ground, and focuses much less on how to take the opponent to the ground. In a fight, if all you know is BJJ it is likely that you will get taken down by strikes, steer wrestling. In MMA don't you see how most BJJ guys have weak takedowns? Look at the best BJJ guys, Big Nog and Sobral, they have sick submissions but their takedowns are substandard.

So yes it is best to be well rounded, however if you had to choose one and it was for street fighitng, MT is the way to go.

JacksColon · Post by **JacksColon** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:06 am

I posted Silva because, frankly, I like his fighting style. He's an ass-beater, but when he has to, he can do the ground work. And yes, submissions aren't necessary in every fight, but I think that when a fight goes to the ground, as they typically do, it's better to be trained in the ground fighting because you can anticipate moves and react appropriately. You might not pull a submission, but you can swing the balance of the fight in your favor. Plus, in MMA, you have the skills necessary to do a proper take down, and then finish the fight quickly. standing toe-to-toe is silly and unnecessary. I know where the BJJ's got their style from. There are Gracie's almost everywhere these days with their own gyms. There's one here in Orlando, or at least there used to be. I'm just saying that the blend is a good one. I actually think Sakaraba is/was a great ground fighter.

Obviously, as you point out, it's nice to have a blend. But, I disagree on one point. Almost every fight I see ends up on the ground and it ends up either two ways: 1) someone who is stronger and more agile ends up on top hammering away or 2)turns into a gayish humpfest that is NOT entertaining to watch. haha I personally hate fighting and think it is usually not necessary. I'd get my ass beat anyways, so hopefully that never happens!

DESOUL · Post by **DESOUL** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:55 am

BrokenSaint wrote:
Love wrote:his record

on the aikido vid the guy was taking on 5 guys without using his hands lol may be force stay strong

Aikido is useless in real life, but Judo is very effective. However It's only takedowns and we all know you can't take anybody out through just takedowns. You gotta follow that up with strikes or a submission move.

Hm i'm couldn't unagree more with what you said about Aikido, its not just about pushing or throwing your opponent, its about neutralizing his attacks and pushing them back at him, in a real fight aikido isn't about just throwing, the throwing is just for demonstration, in reallity its about breaking bones and your opponents joints , if you noticed most aikido techniques throw the opponent down and they have full control of the body's hand/leg/neck joints and can break them at-will if they see fit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn59zha-uAQ

And why i've mentioned aikido is cause i know how effective it is, i've had practices against aikido users back when i was a TaeKwondo pupil, and believe me that thing is as real as it comes, you won't even understand what happened to you.

But really if i'd study some serious self-defense style , i'd study Ninjutsu - said to be the most deadly art till the present day.

Silver0 · Post by **Silver0** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:50 am

Aikido is about love and peace. It is not all about brutality and gain superiority of the attacker(uke). Rather it is love of self and others that when the attacker stubbornly attacks after an initial subduing of the defender(nage) then it will be fatal to the attacker. Actually, aikido does not have tournament because tournament will have a loser and winner which involves EGO. That contrary to the beliefs of Aikido.

Love · Post by **Love** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:40 pm

DESOUL wrote:
BrokenSaint wrote:
Love wrote:his record

on the aikido vid the guy was taking on 5 guys without using his hands lol may be force stay strong

Aikido is useless in real life, but Judo is very effective. However It's only takedowns and we all know you can't take anybody out through just takedowns. You gotta follow that up with strikes or a submission move.

Hm i'm couldn't unagree more with what you said about Aikido, its not just about pushing or throwing your opponent, its about neutralizing his attacks and pushing them back at him, in a real fight aikido isn't about just throwing, the throwing is just for demonstration, in reallity its about breaking bones and your opponents joints , if you noticed most aikido techniques throw the opponent down and they have full control of the body's hand/leg/neck joints and can break them at-will if they see fit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn59zha-uAQ

And why i've mentioned aikido is cause i know how effective it is, i've had practices against aikido users back when i was a TaeKwondo pupil, and believe me that thing is as real as it comes, you won't even understand what happened to you.

But really if i'd study some serious self-defense style , i'd study Ninjutsu - said to be the most deadly art till the present day.

ok let me tell you what i see in the vid you show me a guy doing 1 kind of kick no upper body attacks slow as %^&& dont be posting demonstration vids to claim one martial art owns another or is good in any way look for a real fight vid of 2 fighters of the same skill lvl no an aikido master against a living punching bag like that guy thz

what makes a good fighter is its speed, strength and reflexes add some brutality and it gets a lot more interesting

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