gun debate in america

avanti42 · Post by **avanti42** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:32 am

i live in massachusetts now and do you guys know how much of a bitch it is to get a gun right now?
I have a gun and i dont register it because its such a hassle.
( im under 18 )

Schizophrenic · Post by **Schizophrenic** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:34 am

I don't see the point in having a gun in the first place

. What is so special about owning one?

fena · Post by **fena** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:20 am

Schizophrenic wrote:I don't see the point in having a gun in the first place . What is so special about owning one?

If some bitch comes into your house trying to rob you, you shoot him in the face and teach him a lesson?

Besides, for some people, it makes them feel like men.

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:26 am

Yeah just like owning a PC makes you a nerd.

I own guns because when I can afford it, target shooting is mega fun. That and home security ain't bad either.

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:41 am

fena wrote:
Schizophrenic wrote:I don't see the point in having a gun in the first place . What is so special about owning one?

If some bitch comes into your house trying to rob you, you shoot him in the face and teach him a lesson?

Besides, for some people, it makes them feel like men.

+1, people buy them for self defense I would too. Although I wouldn't carry around one, we're not cowboys living in the 1860s >_>

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:54 am

Personally i think modern gun control is misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment. I don't think the fore fathers wanted every one over the age of 18 to be able to own AK-47's.

That being said it think gun ownership should be heavily monitored and controlled by the the Federal Gov't. All Gun stores should be registered and anyone selling something more powerful than a 9mm must be gov't approved and an agent of the gov't to ensure guns don't end up in the wrong hands. Hunting license should limit the type of rifles people can own to rifles primarily used for hunting. Ammunition and the people who buy a certain amount per year should be closely monitored and there should be a limit on the amount of guns you can own, like 2 or 3. Illegal arms dealing should be an extremely punishable offense and being caught with an unregistered or altered weapon should also be extremely punishable.

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:35 am

XemnasXD wrote:Personally i think modern gun control is misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment. I don't think the fore fathers wanted every one over the age of 18 to be able to own AK-47's.

That being said it think gun ownership should be heavily monitored and controlled by the the Federal Gov't. All Gun stores should be registered and anyone selling something more powerful than a 9mm must be gov't approved and an agent of the gov't to ensure guns don't end up in the wrong hands. Hunting license should limit the type of rifles people can own to rifles primarily used for hunting. Ammunition and the people who buy a certain amount per year should be closely monitored and there should be a limit on the amount of guns you can own, like 2 or 3. Illegal arms dealing should be an extremely punishable offense and being caught with an unregistered or altered weapon should also be extremely punishable.

First off, if you sell firearms in the US without an FFL you're already committing a crime. Second, gun caliber is irrelevant, you can kill even with a 22. Third, it's already illegal to hunt with fully automatic weapons, since it's inhumane and just not necessary.

I know you guys hate Wikipedia, but read some of the consequences and standards here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in ... ted_States

Lastly, if weapons were that restricted, what's the point of having them at all? You might as well erase the 2nd amendment. Things are already tight enough regarding unlawful use of firearms, leave those of us who aren't breaking the law alone.

redneck · Post by **redneck** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:58 pm

"Say a bunch of punk kids go onto the woods with a bulletproof-vest and scrap it on a grizzly bear.Then what you've got? Invincible bears. Is that what you want? Invincible bears running around raping your churches, burning your woman."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ARMoJ-9G68k

All you need to know about gun control...

LittleTom · Post by **LittleTom** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:04 pm

redneck wrote:"Say a bunch of punk kids go onto the woods with a bulletproof-vest and scrap it on a grizzly bear.Then what you've got? Invincible bears. Is that what you want? Invincible bears running around raping your churches, burning your woman."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ARMoJ-9G68k

All you need to know about gun control...

Ahahahahahaha
That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

CrimsonNuker · Post by **CrimsonNuker** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:09 pm

redneck wrote:"Say a bunch of punk kids go onto the woods with a bulletproof-vest and scrap it on a grizzly bear.Then what you've got? Invincible bears. Is that what you want? Invincible bears running around raping your churches, burning your woman."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ARMoJ-9G68k

All you need to know about gun control...

LMFAO!!

*reffers to Gridiron Gangbang*

Guns give you mega protection for when you get in fantasy gang fights. Your buddy (or nikka) has a gun but you dont, what does he think? "YOU GOING OUT THERE NEKKID?, STRAP ON A GUN SON *shoves it down his crotch*

shoto · Post by **shoto** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:11 pm

I'm actually against gun control. Simply because it doesn't work. Gun control restricts a citizen's right to defend himself/herself.

Do you think a criminal has difficulty getting guns? How about gangs?
They get there guns illegally and so the law doesn't even apply to them. In the end only good citizens suffer from this law >>> because they are following a (stupid) law.

Now there are people who just go crazy. All the shooting you've probably heard of, Virginia tech being a more recent one, may make you think gun cntrl is necessary or needs to be tightened, but it just doesn't work ( it hasn't we have had so many shootings this year). virginia tech could have been prevented by finding out that the kid was a little bit of a nut and getting him treated, not by taking guns off the streets

still i'm against owning automatic assault weapons :/...i think m4's and ak's are overkill in civilian hands. I mean seriously (defense is not waging war). Although i mean i know some people who collect all types of weapons. Its a complicated issue

avanti42 · Post by **avanti42** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:06 pm

XemnasXD wrote:Personally i think modern gun control is misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment. I don't think the fore fathers wanted every one over the age of 18 to be able to own AK-47's.

That being said it think gun ownership should be heavily monitored and controlled by the the Federal Gov't. All Gun stores should be registered and anyone selling something more powerful than a 9mm must be gov't approved and an agent of the gov't to ensure guns don't end up in the wrong hands. Hunting license should limit the type of rifles people can own to rifles primarily used for hunting. Ammunition and the people who buy a certain amount per year should be closely monitored and there should be a limit on the amount of guns you can own, like 2 or 3. Illegal arms dealing should be an extremely punishable offense and being caught with an unregistered or altered weapon should also be extremely punishable.

The main point of the second ammendment was to keep the populace armed in case the government ever stopped working for the people and tried to change.

if you give over complete control of the gun industry to the Government what happens whenever and if ever the government does decide to take that step into dictatorship?

if they already have everybody who owns a gun registered they will just come knocking on your door and take the guns.

defeats the purpose of the 2nd ammendment a bit

Valkasdar · Post by **Valkasdar** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Mcclane wrote:should have a IQ test

+11981718791871981

I think the same, no matter if you pass the psychical test and etc... you still can be stupid enough to kill some one for no reason. You must past the IQ and Psychical test equally :shock:

this will be fair :wink:

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:46 pm

Valkasdar wrote:
Mcclane wrote:should have a IQ test

+11981718791871981

I think the same, no matter if you pass the psychical test and etc... you still can be stupid enough to kill some one for no reason. You must past the IQ and Psychical test equally this will be fair

no IQ tests are subjective. Do intensive background checks like if they have been arrested or in jail or felons or mental like Cho

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:55 pm

avanti42 wrote:
XemnasXD wrote:Personally i think modern gun control is misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment. I don't think the fore fathers wanted every one over the age of 18 to be able to own AK-47's.

That being said it think gun ownership should be heavily monitored and controlled by the the Federal Gov't. All Gun stores should be registered and anyone selling something more powerful than a 9mm must be gov't approved and an agent of the gov't to ensure guns don't end up in the wrong hands. Hunting license should limit the type of rifles people can own to rifles primarily used for hunting. Ammunition and the people who buy a certain amount per year should be closely monitored and there should be a limit on the amount of guns you can own, like 2 or 3. Illegal arms dealing should be an extremely punishable offense and being caught with an unregistered or altered weapon should also be extremely punishable.

The main point of the second ammendment was to keep the populace armed in case the government ever stopped working for the people and tried to change.

if you give over complete control of the gun industry to the Government what happens whenever and if ever the government does decide to take that step into dictatorship?

if they already have everybody who owns a gun registered they will just come knocking on your door and take the guns.

defeats the purpose of the 2nd ammendment a bit

the purpose of the second amendment is debatable.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

to me that means state militia made up of civilians should be able to keep and bear arms.

@Reise if its illegal to hunt with an AK-47 and its considered overkill when hunting animals why are people allowed to buy them. What purpose does a weapon like that serve on the street. TBH i don't understand guns, i don't like them and being around them makes me feel uncomfortable i think they should be taken out of the hands of all civilians because dumb people with guns make dumb decisions. Thats my opinion though.

Schizophrenic · Post by **Schizophrenic** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:59 pm

Guns don't hurt people, bullets hurt people. Just ban bullets >.>

Swindler · Post by **Swindler** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:07 pm

Vibrator wrote:I think every kid should have a gun. Then they would be safe in school.

hahahahah +43253534

and

Schizophrenic wrote:Guns don't hurt people, bullets hurt people. Just ban bullets >.>

You are wrong. If they ban bullets. All kids gonna throw the guns on each other. And i think that hurts.

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:07 pm

Well it kinda defeats the purpose of having a militia if they can't supply their own weapons. As soon as the gov't supplies their gear it's not really a militia anymore. Like someone said it's for safety of the people. If by some radical change in events, like suddenly the government decides we're not free anymore, we have the ability to make this country ours again. That's why it's in the constitution.

Taking away our right to defend ourselves, in any situation, is the same as taking away any of our other rights. That's why guns will still be available to anybody who wants them, as long as they're legally able of course.

StuckUP · Post by **StuckUP** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:13 pm

Schizophrenic wrote:Guns don't hurt people, bullets hurt people. Just ban bullets >.>

That defeats the purpose of guns doesn't it? I don't like guns they make me feel quesy, so I think stricter gun control laws should be passed.

Caras · Post by **Caras** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:15 pm

You should have a permit to own a gun

Getting a permit req a reason and a background check

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:17 pm

Reise wrote:Well it kinda defeats the purpose of having a militia if they can't supply their own weapons. As soon as the gov't supplies their gear it's not really a militia anymore. Like someone said it's for safety of the people. If by some radical change in events, like suddenly the government decides we're not free anymore, we have the ability to make this country ours again. That's why it's in the constitution.

Taking away our right to defend ourselves, in any situation, is the same as taking away any of our other rights. That's why guns will still be available to anybody who wants them, as long as they're legally able of course.

Theres a much higher almost 90% chance that someone will Die in Philadelphia tomorrow due to gun violence, the same can be said for every day of the year. Right now its the people who need protection from the people and the best way to do that is remove the guns. I don't know when the Gov't will decide to switch sides and turn on us and im not going to bet on it happening anytime soon. The immediate problem is gun violence not something that may or may not happen.

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:24 pm

Of the people who commit crimes with guns how many do you think were purchased legally?

Removing the guns isn't going to stop that from happening. I can agree with a crackdown on illegal weapons, but I have a feeling the margin between crimes committed with legal vs. illegal weapons is very large. You understand that before 18 you can't even legally possess a firearm of any kind? What more can you do? Send cops to every house in America and confiscate every gun in existence?

I don't think that's the kind of government you like to shoot for Xemnas. Sounds awfully like a police state, especially since then the government would have no worries whatsoever in controlling their defenseless citizens.

StuckUP · Post by **StuckUP** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:29 pm

okay now that I've read further into Reise's reasonings I have to say I agree with Reise. There is no definite way to insure that there is a complete ban on guns, because there is always a way to smuggle firearmes into the country.

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:50 pm

Ok well why are unnecessary guns legal to buy. Most people get illegal weapons from someone whose bought them legally. Hiding behind the legality of gun ownership isn't a good defense is people are still dying everyday because of of it. The 2 issues are linked its not about smart people holding guns vs dumb people, its not about legal gun owners VS illegal. Theres no reason you should be able to buy sub-machines and automatic-rifles. They are not used for hunting they are used to kill people and for every legitimate person who can buy one thats one more person who can sell them illegally. Maybe i went to far when i said remove all guns but limit it to a designated list of moderate handguns and hunting rifles. Ou founding fathers may have wanted the people to be armed a bit (your opinion) but i definetly don't think they wanted a nation where anyone over the age of 18 can be their own personal army.

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:54 pm

Reise wrote:Of the people who commit crimes with guns how many do you think were purchased legally?

Removing the guns isn't going to stop that from happening. I can agree with a crackdown on illegal weapons, but I have a feeling the margin between crimes committed with legal vs. illegal weapons is very large. You understand that before 18 you can't even legally possess a firearm of any kind? What more can you do? Send cops to every house in America and confiscate every gun in existence?

I don't think that's the kind of government you like to shoot for Xemnas. Sounds awfully like a police state, especially since then the government would have no worries whatsoever in controlling their defenseless citizens.

thats not the point! gun control advocates don't want a complete ban of guns. All they want is stronger gun laws. A strong gun law WILL prevent people from getting guns illegally after the government cracks down on gun traffickers.

If there were strong gun laws that stopped gun traffickers and if there were stronger background checks we woudln't have had a VT massacre. Cho got his guns LEGALLY and that shows that not all killers get their guns through the black market. If only virginia had better background checks they would have snagged Cho

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:22 pm

Xemnas you need to do some research on what guns are used for other than killing people. I can imagine it doesn't matter to you what happens to gun laws but there's a fair number of people out there who use guns as their hobbies. Competition shooting, collecting and stuff like that. Or just going out with your friends and shooting targets for fun.

We don't ban knives because people can buy as many as they want and kill people with them. We don't ban cars because people can run other people over and get into fatal accidents with them. So why ban guns for basically the same reason?

IMO that's probably why we will always have guns available to us, there's still ways to use them lawfully. Making them 100% illegal is just another freedom you would be taking away.

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:32 pm

i didn't say 100% illegal. and one of my friends dad is a very avid collector of guns. It was how i first saw an AK-47 complete with laser sight and a fold out mount with a drum clip.....i know he wouldn't harm a fly also.

Lets not compare the lethalness of guns to the lethalness of other things because that can easily go in the opposite direction. Gunz kill sometimes, depends on the user. Nuclear weapons kill people sometimes depends on the user therefore i should be able to buy a nuke. I know its stupid but thats how your knife and car argument sounded to me. You can use almost anything to kill someone but guns are made to kill, knives are made to cut, cars are made to drive. Lets not go crazy here.

I know guns can be used for recreation but there primary use is to kill. Thats why they were invented. If your using it for just recreation than we can limit the caliber of bullet available, i know we have some regulations already. Limits are necessary and as far as im concerned the limits we have now aren't doing shit so make them stricter and enforce them more.

Sharp324 · Post by **Sharp324** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:35 pm

You guys gotta remember people shoot guns for sport too. You know how many collectors would love to be able to get a nice G3 or MP5 but cant because the 86 import ban. Less you want to spend about 20-30 grand on one, pre 86. Gun sellers to be legal need to have a FFL to sell. I shoot for sport, not planning to shoot up a courthouse. Sure i have several semi automatic rifles. Romanian AK, AR converted to M4 standards just to name a few, but all under legal standards, why should a law abiding citizen like me have to give them up because idiots cant listen to law? Personally when i get the money im having a Benelli M4 in my house for protection, for me and my family. Also will be carrying a MK23 or such at 21 with a permit.

Foilin · Post by **Foilin** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:40 pm

Its people who commit crimes. you take away guns, theyll use knives HELL even bows... the people who are killing dont care how theyre killing just that theyre killing. Background checks and a clean record should allow people to buy a gun...

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:43 pm

Sharp324 wrote:You guys gotta remember people shoot guns for sport too. You know how many collectors would love to be able to get a nice G3 or MP5 but cant because the 86 import ban. Less you want to spend about 20-30 grand on one, pre 86. Gun sellers to be legal need to have a FFL to sell. I shoot for sport, not planning to shoot up a courthouse. Sure i have several semi automatic rifles. Romanian AK, AR converted to M4 standards just to name a few, but all under legal standards, why should a law abiding citizen like me have to give them up because idiots cant listen to law? Personally when i get the money im having a Benelli M4 in my house for protection, for me and my family. Also will be carrying a MK23 or such at 21 with a permit.

Sharp324 wrote:Not to sound ______ but if i saw a _____ ___ outside during a blackout i would probably shoot...

the blanks are so this doesn't get taken off topic

not sure if you were joking with that statement but people like you are the reason we need stricter gun laws. Would the people on this forum honestly feel safe knowing that a minor with access to so many weapons and enjoyed using them was living in their neighborhood.