How to beat Joymax

sama98b · Post by **sama98b** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:44 pm

Yep jm is in korea out of reach of every other country laws ...

By the way read the TOS again, about what you own and what you pay for ingame

BBBownsjoymax · Post by **BBBownsjoymax** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:51 pm

sama98b wrote:Yep jm is in korea out of reach of every other country laws ...

By the way read the TOS again, about what you own and what you pay for ingame

Follow my link. It may be a korean based company, but offices in the US means it's a US company.

Here's the link again:
http://sanjose.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=68&bbb=1216&firm=237291
(it's in san jose, not Korea)

sama98b · Post by **sama98b** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:09 pm

Screw with them and same thing will happen as with the viet ip-s.
All usa accounts banned and they just open SilroadUsa.

You don't own anything in this game..... read tos.

ThatBluePerson · Post by **ThatBluePerson** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:20 pm

With their poor translations do the TOS even make sense?

MrH · Post by **MrH** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:23 pm

THE GAME IS NOT FREE TO PLAY...

You fu,cking children open your eyes..nothing is FREE!!!

Joymax has alot of overhead such as employees, datacenter infrastructure costs (millions of $$' per year), utlity bills..etc etc etc

Joymax is a private company (not owned by the gov't) as I understand. They have an obligation to listen to there customers as they are what keep this game "free to play".

Basically it just boils down to the hardcore silk buyers spending $40/mo supporting all these fu,cking whiney children that can't use there moms credit card.

SuperTanker · Post by **SuperTanker** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:31 pm

Da_Realest wrote:
EvilDiablo wrote:i dont know about anyone else, but an official report from the entire SRF to the BBB would be a great idea, we just need someone who's willing to help put it together

I agree.

+1 it would be better than spamming BBB or watever it is.

I hate it when ppl say the game is free live with it or quit it. if we dont do anything then we wont get anything back :banghead:

. just try for heaven's sake :banghead:

.

the ToS might not say that botting is illegal, but hacking is.

sama98b · Post by **sama98b** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:40 pm

If jm states there was no hacking there is no way to prove it.

By the way if someone got hacked and lost everything, he didn't really lose
anything, since he did not own it in the first place...sux..,jm owns everything.
Users just got access to use it, but never own anything.

By the way if you under 18/21 better not report anything or you can get in to trouble.

ps.: Silkroad is hardcore p2p game just like every one out there.
Most time in life: Free is the one going to cost most in the end.

BBBownsjoymax · Post by **BBBownsjoymax** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:57 pm

If you don't want to do anything then that's your choice. Don't expect anything to change then either. When you get hacked, you can go complain to joymax but you know that nothing will happen.

Nokturne · Post by **Nokturne** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:29 pm

MrH wrote:THE GAME IS NOT FREE TO PLAY...

You fu,cking children open your eyes..nothing is FREE!!!

One thing it's free you are not need to pay

if you pay for something on the item mall it is your own choose

PR0METHEUS · Post by **PR0METHEUS** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:38 pm

Jstar1 wrote:wow I didn't think about BBB until you mentioned it.

Instead of everyone spamming reports why don't we just make a report from SRF itself

If a Better Business Bureau report is going to work, this is probably the best way, having one big report from SRF itself.

However, I can't help but wonder how effective it would be. The BBB is a US Government agency. Joymax is a Korean company (with an office in the US.) How much authority would the BBB have over Joymax?

MrH wrote:THE GAME IS NOT FREE TO PLAY...

You fu,cking children open your eyes..nothing is FREE!!!

Joymax has alot of overhead such as employees, datacenter infrastructure costs (millions of $$' per year), utlity bills..etc etc etc

Free to play != free to operate. Of course it costs money for Joymax to operate Silkroad Online, but it is free for me to play it. I don't have to pay a single cent.

-.- · Post by **-.-** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:41 pm

besides this being korean game...

its listed as a free game... meaning it isnt a business really by standards
not even membership fees... but "item mall" additions lol

AngloKnight · Post by **AngloKnight** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:28 pm

Well, I haven't read the TOS but I guess the TOS includes "no botting"... and since Joymax won't ban those botters, then they've already broken the TOS...

About the hacked accounts, yeah it's a free game, but you're not supposed to buy silk and stuff for real money then get your account hacked because JM had a fuckin exploit in their website and then JM won't claim responisibilty and won't help those who got hacked... I guess that's against the laws...

Well if we're to send them a complaint, then I'll be with ya...

PS: JM also don't protect privacy...

Deadsolid · Post by **Deadsolid** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:33 pm

"This organization is not a BBB Accredited business."

Does this have something to do with the reason nothing has been done or is it irreleveant? This upcoming week im going to submit a report, I suggest we make up for 3 years of the BS we went through.

sama98b · Post by **sama98b** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:47 am

Deadsolid wrote:"This organization is not a BBB Accredited business."

Does this have something to do with the reason nothing has been done or is it irreleveant? This upcoming week im going to submit a report, I suggest we make up for 3 years of the BS we went through.

You quit from sro so I recommend you do the same with this forum too

Bye.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

ps.: Wonder how you still here, hmm mods must have missed your avatar.

Crumpets · Post by **Crumpets** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:52 am

AngloKnight wrote:Well, I haven't read the TOS but I guess the TOS includes "no botting"... and since Joymax won't ban those botters, then they've already broken the TOS...

About the hacked accounts, yeah it's a free game, but you're not supposed to buy silk and stuff for real money then get your account hacked because JM had a fuckin exploit in their website and then JM won't claim responisibilty and won't help those who got hacked... I guess that's against the laws...

Well if we're to send them a complaint, then I'll be with ya...

PS: JM also don't protect privacy...

Nope, JoyMax took the botting is a bannable offence part out of the T.O.S.

sama98b · Post by **sama98b** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:00 am

They still don't get it.

Even if you pay real money in this game you don't own anything.
They offer limited service.
Joymax has all the rights do do anything with their game.
They can terminate accounts for no reason and still no way to complain.
Everything is Jm property.

The new tos was changed to clear things up.
What jm decides, they can do, users got 0 rights and controls.

Wouldn't surprise me if they do an user cleanup and only include ppl who
never spent a cent.

Would translate the tos: Everything is legal until jm decided otherwise,
and they can decide different from person to person.

vindicated01 · Post by **vindicated01** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:02 am

you guys serious

FireJammerXR · Post by **FireJammerXR** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:03 am

"HEY JOYMAX!!! YOUR FREE GAME HAS BUGS!!! THATS NOT FAIR!!"

darkmaster21 · Post by **darkmaster21** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:15 am

PR0METHEUS wrote:
However, I can't help but wonder how effective it would be. The BBB is a US Government agency. Joymax is a Korean company (with an office in the US.) How much authority would the BBB have over Joymax?

That does not matter, they still have an office building in the United States. If they are in the United States in anyway then this BBB company can do something about it. If Joymax pays taxes (I hope >.>) then they are a legal building in the state of California. Just because their "headquarters" is in Korea does not mean ANYTHING.

Carmilla · Post by **Carmilla** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:28 am

Joymax could careless about it i mean really think about it, If they make all of there money of botters & gold bots why would they want to change that? what i mean by this is gold bots make servers traffic meaning what? meaning we get tired of trying to get in and quit or like most (this is where they make money) you buy a premium, Botters give them money because not only do they buy silk and other items but they also dont cry about the game as much as the ones that cant afford to buy premiums hence why they dont ban them. If you notice the ksro has no botters in it because GM's play the game and ban for it were as in iSRO is where they make all of the money because they could careless thats just there "other game" but if they did it in Ksro alot would quit because that is there home game. Hope that clears alot up for people that keep making posts like this. :roll:

jabbers · Post by **jabbers** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:28 am

What effect is this going to have even if someone manages to make a report? Is it suppose to warn future customers or something, because when was the last time you really "checked up" on a company through the BBB for anything, let alone and online game?

Malicious · Post by **Malicious** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:34 am

HejsaN wrote:it is a free game, accept the problems or just dont play it.. omg..

+1

DavidHe · Post by **DavidHe** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:57 am

Maybe you guys should stop bickering whether or not BBB can do anything or the effect it will have and just try it and see what happens..

MastaChiefX · Post by **MastaChiefX** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:16 am

Or just quit.

Cruor · Post by **Cruor** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:17 am

Carmilla wrote:If you notice the ksro has no botters in it because GM's play the game and ban for it were as in iSRO is where they make all of the money because they could careless thats just there "other game" but if they did it in Ksro alot would quit because that is there home game. Hope that clears alot up for people that keep making posts like this.

kSRO is run by Yahoo Korea. jSRO, cSRO, tSRO, and vSRO are also all run by separate companies. From what I understand, these companies purchase a license to run Silkroad servers in their regions, although I am unsure of whether they have to pay for updates or split the profits. iSRO on the other hand, is run completely by Joymax. As you can obviously tell, Joymax is a game development company, not a game management company. I'm not sure how much money iSRO rakes in compared to licensing and fees for other versions, but Joymax apparently considers it not enough to properly staff and maintain iSRO, or they realize that they have a virtual monopoly on this userbase.

If we want the same service that kSRO gets, the easiest way to get it would be to convince a large Internet-based company that does business in our region (USA/EU for most of us) that there is enough of a market in this game to warrant purchasing a license. Yahoo America would be an obvious choice if it weren't for the fact that they aren't quite with the gaming business like Yahoo Korea is. Companies like GameTap however seem to have some (pay to play) potential. GameTap is actually re-releasing and managing the online part of Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, a game that was literally dead for two or three years. Remember though, that most American companies (besides Microsoft) seem to prefer the pay-to-play model over micro-transactions.

Carmilla · Post by **Carmilla** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:33 am

Cruor wrote:
Carmilla wrote:If you notice the ksro has no botters in it because GM's play the game and ban for it were as in iSRO is where they make all of the money because they could careless thats just there "other game" but if they did it in Ksro alot would quit because that is there home game. Hope that clears alot up for people that keep making posts like this.
kSRO is run by Yahoo Korea. jSRO, cSRO, tSRO, and vSRO are also all run by separate companies. From what I understand, these companies purchase a license to run Silkroad servers in their regions, although I am unsure of whether they have to pay for updates or split the profits. iSRO on the other hand, is run completely by Joymax. As you can obviously tell, Joymax is a game development company, not a game management company. I'm not sure how much money iSRO rakes in compared to licensing and fees for other versions, but Joymax apparently considers it not enough to properly staff and maintain iSRO, or they realize that they have a virtual monopoly on this userbase.

If we want the same service that kSRO gets, the easiest way to get it would be to convince a large Internet-based company that does business in our region (USA/EU for most of us) that there is enough of a market in this game to warrant purchasing a license. Yahoo America would be an obvious choice if it weren't for the fact that they aren't quite with the gaming business like Yahoo Korea is. Companies like GameTap however seem to have some (pay to play) potential. GameTap is actually re-releasing and managing the online part of Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, a game that was literally dead for two or three years. Remember though, that most American companies (besides Microsoft) seem to prefer the pay-to-play model over micro-transactions.

true but i mean why? really after all it is a freee game lol alot more games to choose from if it gets on peoples nerves that much...

Cruor · Post by **Cruor** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:44 am

Carmilla wrote: true but i mean why? really after all it is a freee game lol alot more games to choose from if it gets on peoples nerves that much...

Why not? Who wouldn't love better service and a looser banhammer, besides botters and gold buyers? kSRO proves this can be an awesome game when managed properly, so why not try to obtain proper management?

Carmilla · Post by **Carmilla** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:55 am

Cruor wrote:
Carmilla wrote: true but i mean why? really after all it is a freee game lol alot more games to choose from if it gets on peoples nerves that much...
Why not? Who wouldn't love better service and a looser banhammer, besides botters and gold buyers? kSRO proves this can be an awesome game when managed properly, so why not try to obtain proper management?

worth the try i guess 90% chance it still will never happen though

EvilDiablo · Post by **EvilDiablo** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:59 am

sama98b wrote:They still don't get it.

Even if you pay real money in this game you don't own anything.
They offer limited service.
Joymax has all the rights do do anything with their game.
They can terminate accounts for no reason and still no way to complain.
Everything is Jm property.

The new tos was changed to clear things up.
What jm decides, they can do, users got 0 rights and controls.

Wouldn't surprise me if they do an user cleanup and only include ppl who
never spent a cent.

Would translate the tos: Everything is legal until jm decided otherwise,
and they can decide different from person to person.

NO, you dont seem to get it, so no offense, but im going to spell it out for you

There would be no basis for reporting them if it wasn't for the fact that (and this is the important part btw) THEY DONT EVEN UPHOLD THEIR PART OF THE END-USER AGREEMENT, if they dont even follow their own goddamn rules, then that would make it a basis for an actual CONCRETE complaint, instead of it just being whiney people complaining that JM is horrible at managing...its not that hard to figure out

Barotix · Post by **Barotix** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:21 am

EvilDiablo wrote:
sama98b wrote:They still don't get it.

Even if you pay real money in this game you don't own anything.
They offer limited service.
Joymax has all the rights do do anything with their game.
They can terminate accounts for no reason and still no way to complain.
Everything is Jm property.

The new tos was changed to clear things up.
What jm decides, they can do, users got 0 rights and controls.

Wouldn't surprise me if they do an user cleanup and only include ppl who
never spent a cent.

Would translate the tos: Everything is legal until jm decided otherwise,
and they can decide different from person to person.

NO, you dont seem to get it, so no offense, but im going to spell it out for you

There would be no basis for reporting them if it wasn't for the fact that (and this is the important part btw) THEY DONT EVEN UPHOLD THEIR PART OF THE END-USER AGREEMENT, if they dont even follow their own goddamn rules, then that would make it a basis for an actual CONCRETE complaint, instead of it just being whiney people complaining that JM is horrible at managing...its not that hard to figure out

the thing is that they do follow thru because: their ToS states that they can decide what is right, and what is wrong on the spot no questions asked. they can ban any of us for something as stupid as saying "Good Morning Sro" - in global, and you can't do a thing about it. They have revamped their ToS so much and reworded it so "well" that atm no matter what we say or do the only thing we have on them is the hacking incident, and here is the best part: we have no proof that the hackings occurred.

at first i was like sweet if this whole BBB thing works out i might stop googleing past lawsuit information on joymax. [according to one of my sources Joymax was sued once, and lost; atm I'm trying to find out why] Then i sat down and thought about it and was like, "but that TOS is such a Confounding variable, how could anyone hold up a serious case in a court of law let alone file a report to the BBB without making a full of themselves because of that damn TOS" -

then i thought it over again, and remembered there is a trump card something [i hope joymax overlooked]. In their TOS they stated and I quote [loose quote] "users will be notified of any changes to the TOS through the mainsite: http://www.silkroadonline.net/" - 0 notification, not one bit of verifiable notification. Then the last piece of the puzzle fell in place - i have no proof other than my own memory that the TOS has been edited for that reason: any report I make for TOS invalidation is considered "fake".

our defeatist friends and cruor have the right Idea:
either A) we play and stfu
B) quit [i have... why the hell am i still here... oh yeah for some odd reason i have "hope"]
or C) buckle down and fight by either finding someone that can send a business inquiry to joymax about hosting and managing an Asro and/or Esro, OR we can band together formulate a plan and see where the BBB takes us.

Today is the beginning of a new era in Isro history: the era we take that 8th deg Glaive and destroy the foundations of incompetence and corruption we call Joymax, the day we take back control, the day legits can proudly proclaim themselves legit without fear of stigmata from the botting majority, Today WE FIGHT!

so who's with me how about we buckle down, and File an SRF issued report to the BBB [we need a reason first though :banghead:

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