US makes U-turn on climate change

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US makes U-turn on climate change

Post by MrBow »

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/1 ... index.html

It is considered a first step, though i think this is a major step, the US finally thinks climate change is serious business :)

The head of the U.S. delegation -- Under Secretary of State for Democracy and Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky -- was booed Saturday afternoon when she announced that the United States was rejecting the plan as then written because they were "not prepared to accept this formulation." She said developing countries needed to carry more of the responsibility.

While rhetoric at such conferences is often just words, a short speech by a delegate from the small developing country of Papua New Guinea appeared to carry weight with the Americans. The delegate challenged the United States to "either lead, follow or get out of the way." :D

Just five minutes later, when it appeared the conference was on the brink of collapse, Dobriansky took to the floor again to announce the United States was willing to accept the arrangement. Applause erupted in the hall and a relative level of success for the conference appeared certain
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Re: US makes U-turn on climate change

Post by Priam »

MrBow wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/15/bali.agreement/index.html

It is considered a first step, though i think this is a major step, the US finally thinks climate change is serious business :)

The head of the U.S. delegation -- Under Secretary of State for Democracy and Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky -- was booed Saturday afternoon when she announced that the United States was rejecting the plan as then written because they were "not prepared to accept this formulation." She said developing countries needed to carry more of the responsibility.

While rhetoric at such conferences is often just words, a short speech by a delegate from the small developing country of Papua New Guinea appeared to carry weight with the Americans. The delegate challenged the United States to "either lead, follow or get out of the way." :D

Just five minutes later, when it appeared the conference was on the brink of collapse, Dobriansky took to the floor again to announce the United States was willing to accept the arrangement. Applause erupted in the hall and a relative level of success for the conference appeared certain


We'll see about that.

Imo, till proven otherwise, just another theatrical propaganda stunt.
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Post by Barotix »

lol humans fing rofl. why can't we realize that even planets have natural cycles that they must follow. we, humans, are simply speeding it up slightly [its not much]. archaeological evidence even states the earth was a greenhouse during the carboniferous era. ever since then the earth has been cooling; now the earth is returning to whence it came and humans want to prevent that because "we're the most important creature on the planet" :roll:

w/e kudos to the land of the free, and every other country [until further notice] for agreeing to combat mother nature. now watch as the earth unleashes all its fury in the torrent of forms i like to call: the weather. We are what we are, but sometimes we consider ourselves to great to see our wrongs.
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Post by Vandango »

Barotix wrote:lol humans fing rofl. why can't we realize that even planets have natural cycles that they must follow. we, humans, are simply speeding it up slightly [its not much]. archaeological evidence even states the earth was a greenhouse during the carboniferous era. ever since then the earth has been cooling; now the earth is returning to whence it came and humans want to prevent that because "we're the most important creature on the planet" :roll:

w/e kudos to the land of the free, and every other country [until further notice] for agreeing to combat mother nature. now watch as the earth unleashes all its fury in the torrent of forms i like to call: the weather. We are what we are, but sometimes we consider ourselves to great to see our wrongs.


If Humans werent here thered be no climate change
the only reason why it happend last time casue when the Dino's went extinct casue a Metorite Hit earth.
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Post by Casey613 »

As Priam said it'll stay as a theory till proven otherwise.

I do however belive we the human kind fast forwarded a few centuries on that cycle.
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Post by Crumpets »

Karlos Vandango wrote:
Barotix wrote:lol humans fing rofl. why can't we realize that even planets have natural cycles that they must follow. we, humans, are simply speeding it up slightly [its not much]. archaeological evidence even states the earth was a greenhouse during the carboniferous era. ever since then the earth has been cooling; now the earth is returning to whence it came and humans want to prevent that because "we're the most important creature on the planet" :roll:

w/e kudos to the land of the free, and every other country [until further notice] for agreeing to combat mother nature. now watch as the earth unleashes all its fury in the torrent of forms i like to call: the weather. We are what we are, but sometimes we consider ourselves to great to see our wrongs.


If Humans werent here thered be no climate change
the only reason why it happend last time casue when the Dino's went extinct casue a Metorite Hit earth.


Wrong.

Dunno how people still sit infront of the tele and believe EVERYTHING that gets said. Hell prolly even got 'green' electrcity.

I mean .. take a look at NY right now ..... That's the earth warming? I think not. Hell it's even been PROVEN to those who read up on it that the hole in the O-Zone IS getting smaller. Meh kinda tired of this bollox about omg change your lifestyle .. safe the earth.

There's no point .. why? Cause we have no effect on what Earth does in terms of heating / cooling.

Funny fact: Owned of the WeatherCHannel in the U.S.A. even admitted it's bollocks and that they were instructed to focus on something that had no proof.

/rant .. I also agree with Priam.
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Post by MrBow »

Maybe in NYC people won't notice the climate change, neither do people in Holland (yet).
But if you look at this article

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Global ... id=3984505

This week, after reviewing his own new data, NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: "At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions."


This is what disturbes me. The arctic sea has never been ice-free.
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Post by JacksColon »

Crumpets wrote:
Karlos Vandango wrote:
Barotix wrote:lol humans fing rofl. why can't we realize that even planets have natural cycles that they must follow. we, humans, are simply speeding it up slightly [its not much]. archaeological evidence even states the earth was a greenhouse during the carboniferous era. ever since then the earth has been cooling; now the earth is returning to whence it came and humans want to prevent that because "we're the most important creature on the planet" :roll:

w/e kudos to the land of the free, and every other country [until further notice] for agreeing to combat mother nature. now watch as the earth unleashes all its fury in the torrent of forms i like to call: the weather. We are what we are, but sometimes we consider ourselves to great to see our wrongs.


If Humans werent here thered be no climate change
the only reason why it happend last time casue when the Dino's went extinct casue a Metorite Hit earth.


Wrong.

Dunno how people still sit infront of the tele and believe EVERYTHING that gets said. Hell prolly even got 'green' electrcity.

I mean .. take a look at NY right now ..... That's the earth warming? I think not. Hell it's even been PROVEN to those who read up on it that the hole in the O-Zone IS getting smaller. Meh kinda tired of this bollox about omg change your lifestyle .. safe the earth.

There's no point .. why? Cause we have no effect on what Earth does in terms of heating / cooling.

Funny fact: Owned of the WeatherCHannel in the U.S.A. even admitted it's bollocks and that they were instructed to focus on something that had no proof.

/rant .. I also agree with Priam.




You truly have NO idea what you're talking about. First, it's really ignorant people like yourself who claim that "hell, it's freakin' freezing in NY right now!!1 that doesn't sound like 'global warming' to me!!!" which is a completely ignorant statement, and if you need to have it explained to you WHY that is an ignorant statement, then you've proven my point.

Second, the whole in the ozone layer is a SEPARATE issue from the global climate change issue. If you don't think so, then, again, you've proven your ignorance, and haven't "read up on this stuff" like you say people should.

Just a quick peak into the REAL science, not the garbage coming out of U.S. think tanks such as the Cato Institute, American Enterprise Institute etc. All those garbage, conservative propaganda machines posing as purveyors of truth:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686
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Post by Crumpets »

JacksColon wrote:

You truly have NO idea what you're talking about. First, it's really ignorant people like yourself who claim that "hell, it's freakin' freezing in NY right now!!1 that doesn't sound like 'global warming' to me!!!" which is a completely ignorant statement, and if you need to have it explained to you WHY that is an ignorant statement, then you've proven my point.

Second, the whole in the ozone layer is a SEPARATE issue from the global climate change issue. If you don't think so, then, again, you've proven your ignorance, and haven't "read up on this stuff" like you say people should.

Just a quick peak into the REAL science, not the garbage coming out of U.S. think tanks such as the Cato Institute, American Enterprise Institute etc. All those garbage, conservative propaganda machines posing as purveyors of truth:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686


So you come and try to prove me wrong but say Global Warming is infact a fact?

Oh dear god. You base your own theory off that 1 link ? :O
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Post by Priam »

http://www.cnn.com/NATURE/9910/01/ozone ... index.html

It's not really clear in that animation, but if you google, ull find much more.

The O-zonde is shrinking, and it's not because we all signed some weird shit this year.

Imo, its kinda blown up, yes we need to reduce fumes, no were not killing the earth in a short period of time.
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Post by JacksColon »

Crumpets wrote:
JacksColon wrote:

You truly have NO idea what you're talking about. First, it's really ignorant people like yourself who claim that "hell, it's freakin' freezing in NY right now!!1 that doesn't sound like 'global warming' to me!!!" which is a completely ignorant statement, and if you need to have it explained to you WHY that is an ignorant statement, then you've proven my point.

Second, the whole in the ozone layer is a SEPARATE issue from the global climate change issue. If you don't think so, then, again, you've proven your ignorance, and haven't "read up on this stuff" like you say people should.

Just a quick peak into the REAL science, not the garbage coming out of U.S. think tanks such as the Cato Institute, American Enterprise Institute etc. All those garbage, conservative propaganda machines posing as purveyors of truth:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686


So you come and try to prove me wrong but say Global Warming is infact a fact?

Oh dear god. You base your own theory off that 1 link ? :O


No, I base it on years of research that I have done at that graduate level, but I figured a simpleton like yourself would need something short and sweet :roll:
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Post by Barotix »

why can't we all just except this pattern, die out, and let another creature fill our niche of top dog.

earths patterns simplified:

hot, dry [yo holmes where did the O2 go??] ~> hot, wet [WTF! damn its hot!!!] ~> hot, dry[i like desert] ~> hot, wet [mild greenhouse] ~> cold, wet [ooh look the arctic is frozen oO] ~> hot, dry [ SHIT SHIT HUMANS GONNA DIE, ITS THE END!!!]

rinse and repeat :)
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Post by heroo »

either lead, follow or get out of the way

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Post by Priam »

@ whomever it was.

Though you might be cool with ur graduate level studies and other blabla.

If you have read up on the stuff, and know how that hole in the O-zone layer works, what it does, and what long-term problems it may cause. You can NOT adress it as a seperate problem from global warming. That's you being ignorant and a 'simpleton'.

And yes, i read.

GTFO with that elitist attitude btw, well lame, theres a load of smart people on this board, and i know for a fact the person you called a 'simpleton' is one.
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Post by TOloseGT »

lmao, the most we can do is cut down on pollution to make our cities look nicer. we have very little effect on earth's cycle, but we have a huge effect on the ecosystem.

it's bs that we "caused" or "hastened" global warming. if u didn't know already, we're still coming out of an ice age, and guess what, the earth gets warmer, ice caps melt, climate changes, and the whole shabang. maybe in 50,000 yrs, we can look back at today and laugh at our stupidity.
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Post by Barotix »

TOloseGT wrote:lmao, the most we can do is cut down on pollution to make our cities look nicer. we have very little effect on earth's cycle, but we have a huge effect on the ecosystem.

it's bs that we "caused" or "hastened" global warming. if u didn't know already, we're still coming out of an ice age, and guess what, the earth gets warmer, ice caps melt, climate changes, and the whole shabang. maybe in 50,000 yrs, we can look back at today and laugh at our stupidity.


if we [humans] still exist >.<
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Post by Itonami »

Barotix wrote:
TOloseGT wrote:lmao, the most we can do is cut down on pollution to make our cities look nicer. we have very little effect on earth's cycle, but we have a huge effect on the ecosystem.

it's bs that we "caused" or "hastened" global warming. if u didn't know already, we're still coming out of an ice age, and guess what, the earth gets warmer, ice caps melt, climate changes, and the whole shabang. maybe in 50,000 yrs, we can look back at today and laugh at our stupidity.


if we [humans] still exist >.<


Of course we'll still exist.. we'll get gills and fins sometime during evolution.
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Post by Crumpets »

TOloseGT wrote:lmao, the most we can do is cut down on pollution to make our cities look nicer. we have very little effect on earth's cycle, but we have a huge effect on the ecosystem.

it's bs that we "caused" or "hastened" global warming. if u didn't know already, we're still coming out of an ice age, and guess what, the earth gets warmer, ice caps melt, climate changes, and the whole shabang. maybe in 50,000 yrs, we can look back at today and laugh at our stupidity.


: > Yup, I totally agree. Shame we have no influence on whats going on. Maybe someday one of us will : >

Priam .. <3

Jacks .. So you did it at graduate level? And? And I'm simple because I form my own opinion about things I SEE & HEAR? Oh well then .... someone who studied this on 'graduate level' should surely provide more 'proof' than just a tiny link right?

Please explain for me ..the simpleton is eager to hear you 'graduate level' speak.
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Post by Barotix »

Itonami wrote:
Barotix wrote:
TOloseGT wrote:lmao, the most we can do is cut down on pollution to make our cities look nicer. we have very little effect on earth's cycle, but we have a huge effect on the ecosystem.

it's bs that we "caused" or "hastened" global warming. if u didn't know already, we're still coming out of an ice age, and guess what, the earth gets warmer, ice caps melt, climate changes, and the whole shabang. maybe in 50,000 yrs, we can look back at today and laugh at our stupidity.


if we [humans] still exist >.<


Of course we'll still exist.. we'll get gills and fins sometime during evolution.


hot, wet comes after hot, dry. we're entering hot, dry right now :cry: we'll become lizard people :twisted:
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Post by Priam »

His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.
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Post by Jstar1 »

no the climate is changing abnormally

the sea level is rising and thats terrible because its the icebergs in the arctic and antarctic thats melting
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Post by TOloseGT »

because u know, those glaciers have been around since the formation of earth right?

they aren't permanent markers on the world. once upon a time, antarctica wasn't under miles of ice sheet.
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Post by JacksColon »

Priam wrote:His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.


well, there you go, you just proved YOUR ignorance.

What causes ozone depletion? chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) compounds, or what many refer to as "freons". such as what is found in your airconditioners and refrigerators. The Montreal Protocol banned the production of such CFCs. The hole in the ozone above antarctica has subsequently ceased from increasing in size, and many models show that the hole will SLOWLY reduce in size. It will be much later in this century before the hole in the ozone layer gets back to its 1980 size, assuming full compliance with the Montreal Protocol....the hole in the ozone is mainly responsible for increased cases of skin cancer due to the increase in UV light that is more easily allowed down to the surface of the earth, due to the thinner or "holey" ozone layer.

this is NOT..I repeat NOT, global warming.
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Post by Priam »

JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.


well, there you go, you just proved YOUR ignorance.

What causes ozone depletion? chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) compounds, or what many refer to as "freons". such as what is found in your airconditioners and refrigerators. The Montreal Protocol banned the production of such CFCs. The hole in the ozone above antarctica has subsequently ceased from increasing in size, and many models show that the hole will SLOWLY reduce in size. It will be much later in this century before the hole in the ozone layer gets back to its 1980 size, assuming full compliance with the Montreal Protocol....the hole in the ozone is mainly responsible for increased cases of skin cancer due to the increase in UV light that is more easily allowed down to the surface of the earth, due to the thinner or "holey" ozone layer.

this is NOT..I repeat NOT, global warming.


Senorita, where did i state global warming caused the hole in the O-zone.
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Post by JacksColon »

Priam wrote:
JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.


well, there you go, you just proved YOUR ignorance.

What causes ozone depletion? chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) compounds, or what many refer to as "freons". such as what is found in your airconditioners and refrigerators. The Montreal Protocol banned the production of such CFCs. The hole in the ozone above antarctica has subsequently ceased from increasing in size, and many models show that the hole will SLOWLY reduce in size. It will be much later in this century before the hole in the ozone layer gets back to its 1980 size, assuming full compliance with the Montreal Protocol....the hole in the ozone is mainly responsible for increased cases of skin cancer due to the increase in UV light that is more easily allowed down to the surface of the earth, due to the thinner or "holey" ozone layer.

this is NOT..I repeat NOT, global warming.


Senorita, where did i state global warming caused the hole in the O-zone.


You never said that, and I never claimed that you said that. You claim that they are linked, yet you never provided any explanation. Perhaps that's because you can't???? :wink:
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Post by Crumpets »

JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:
JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.


well, there you go, you just proved YOUR ignorance.

What causes ozone depletion? chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) compounds, or what many refer to as "freons". such as what is found in your airconditioners and refrigerators. The Montreal Protocol banned the production of such CFCs. The hole in the ozone above antarctica has subsequently ceased from increasing in size, and many models show that the hole will SLOWLY reduce in size. It will be much later in this century before the hole in the ozone layer gets back to its 1980 size, assuming full compliance with the Montreal Protocol....the hole in the ozone is mainly responsible for increased cases of skin cancer due to the increase in UV light that is more easily allowed down to the surface of the earth, due to the thinner or "holey" ozone layer.

this is NOT..I repeat NOT, global warming.


Senorita, where did i state global warming caused the hole in the O-zone.


You never said that, and I never claimed that you said that. You claim that they are linked, yet you never provided any explanation. Perhaps that's because you can't???? :wink:


You just contradicted yourself. Your 2nd to last post was based on you thinking he meant they were connected. Hence the whole bullcrap about O-Zone forming.
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Post by Innovacious »

The planet is heating up. Even if we do something to try and stop it, its still gonna happen. So what if we are making it heat up faster, if its going to happen we might as well have fun and get it over and done with quickly. Its better than having to sacrafice our ways of life and sit around for ages waiting for the inevitable.
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Post by JacksColon »

Crumpets wrote:
JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:
JacksColon wrote:
Priam wrote:His 'graduate' opinion is ignorant, The hole in the O-zone layer and global warming DO have something to do with eachother, and cannot be adressed seperatly.


well, there you go, you just proved YOUR ignorance.

What causes ozone depletion? chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) compounds, or what many refer to as "freons". such as what is found in your airconditioners and refrigerators. The Montreal Protocol banned the production of such CFCs. The hole in the ozone above antarctica has subsequently ceased from increasing in size, and many models show that the hole will SLOWLY reduce in size. It will be much later in this century before the hole in the ozone layer gets back to its 1980 size, assuming full compliance with the Montreal Protocol....the hole in the ozone is mainly responsible for increased cases of skin cancer due to the increase in UV light that is more easily allowed down to the surface of the earth, due to the thinner or "holey" ozone layer.

this is NOT..I repeat NOT, global warming.


Senorita, where did i state global warming caused the hole in the O-zone.


You never said that, and I never claimed that you said that. You claim that they are linked, yet you never provided any explanation. Perhaps that's because you can't???? :wink:


You just contradicted yourself. Your 2nd to last post was based on you thinking he meant they were connected. Hence the whole bullcrap about O-Zone forming.


Ok, first, don't be more ignorant than your buddy. Ozone forming? c'mon man. Second, when one with lots of experience researching this stuff comes on to a board with people who listen to Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck and think they know something, it seems appropriate to do a little bit of educating. I never said he thought ozone depletion and global climate change were the same thing (but many MANY people do). I was merely extinguishing any argument he COULD have that they were, since he seemed to be going down that road.

back on topic, technically, CFCs ARE greenhouse gases, but to a much lesser degree and their effect in the global warming phenomena is much less than more "typical" greenhouse gases like CO2, methane, etc.

CFCs, although greenhouse gases, are regulated by the Montreal Protocol, which was motivated by CFCs' contribution to ozone depletion rather than by their contribution to global warming. Note that ozone depletion has only a minor role in greenhouse warming though the two processes often are confused in the popular media. Subsequently, and important to this conversation, the reduction in CFCs has shown a stabilization in the ozone hole, with soon to be a reduction. All this while the global temperature CONTINUES to rise and the overall levels of greenhouse gases such as CO2 continue to INCREASE
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Post by 0l3n »

Nobody knows for certain if we can stop this or not but why not do anything if there is a small chance of stoping it?

And its not like changing our habits will end the world.
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Post by redneck »

"simpletons"


Ouch...

I don't have much to add to this topic...Barotix already outlined everything...
hot, dry [yo holmes where did the O2 go??] ~> hot, wet [WTF! damn its hot!!!] ~> hot, dry[i like desert] ~> hot, wet [mild greenhouse] ~> cold, wet [ooh look the arctic is frozen oO] ~> hot, dry [ SHIT SHIT HUMANS GONNA DIE, ITS THE END!!!]


I could also say that all this global warming is a conspiracy by the Evil-Liberal-Elites..
<<banned from SRF for rules violations. -SG>>

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