What is a soul?

[XemnasXD]

Ok, first, we disagree on premise. You speak in terms of "purpose" and "whose purpose". Which I believe are false pretenses to start from. Yes, I do believe that IF the universe were to just come to and end, it wouldn't really matter. Why? Because, why would it matter if we are all dead. Supposing the universe ended tomorrow, you and I would both die. In MY view, it doesn't matter because I'm not here to experience whatever aftermath there were, although my view is also that there probably woulnd't be any "Aftermath" because that which comes from nothing can end in nothing.

Also "Grand Scheme" is a figure of speech....ok, by that I mean, in the context of the entire universe. Think of it this way. Think of how many grains of sand there are on ALL of the beaches of the world. Well, in my view, the human species makes up just one grain of those. All of the others are other things within the universe which we are a part of (although that would still make up a small fraction if we're talking true scale here). Take us out, just like you could remove a grain of sand, and nothing happens..no great catastrophy...nothing. Thus, we are insignificant, just as that one grain of sand is insignificant.

But we are not all life. We don't compose nor are we the center of the universe by any means. We are subjected to existence same as everything else. Taking that into account if our grain of sand is insignificant then what keeps the other grains from being just as insignificant. In your belief there is no God no soul just existence so i state again in different terms.

If our existence is insignificant by comparison to the overall existence of everything else, what makes everything else more significant as a whole if individually they are meaningless.

Insignificance requires significance. If everything separately is insignificant what could possibly be gained by combining a large amount of insignificance together. Remove one insignificant piece of sand and there is no catastrophe. Remove Billions of insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant pieces. Remove ALL insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant.

So all the sand in your metaphor is gone and i see no significance left to make my or anything elses existence seem "Insignificant"

[Swindler]

everytime you sneeze your soul want to gets out.. i never sneeze cuz my soul like me ;P

[arctic197]

everytime you sneeze your soul want to gets out.. i never sneeze cuz my soul like me ;P

What I've heard is when you sneeze, only a piece of your soul gets out. Then when we say "Bless you" or "God bless you," that piece of the soul goes back to you.

[JacksColon]

Ok, first, we disagree on premise. You speak in terms of "purpose" and "whose purpose". Which I believe are false pretenses to start from. Yes, I do believe that IF the universe were to just come to and end, it wouldn't really matter. Why? Because, why would it matter if we are all dead. Supposing the universe ended tomorrow, you and I would both die. In MY view, it doesn't matter because I'm not here to experience whatever aftermath there were, although my view is also that there probably woulnd't be any "Aftermath" because that which comes from nothing can end in nothing.

Also "Grand Scheme" is a figure of speech....ok, by that I mean, in the context of the entire universe. Think of it this way. Think of how many grains of sand there are on ALL of the beaches of the world. Well, in my view, the human species makes up just one grain of those. All of the others are other things within the universe which we are a part of (although that would still make up a small fraction if we're talking true scale here). Take us out, just like you could remove a grain of sand, and nothing happens..no great catastrophy...nothing. Thus, we are insignificant, just as that one grain of sand is insignificant.

But we are not all life. We don't compose nor are we the center of the universe by any means. We are subjected to existence same as everything else. Taking that into account if our grain of sand is insignificant then what keeps the other grains from being just as insignificant. In your belief there is no God no soul just existence so i state again in different terms.

If our existence is insignificant by comparison to the overall existence of everything else, what makes everything else more significant as a whole if individually they are meaningless.

Insignificance requires significance. If everything separately is insignificant what could possibly be gained by combining a large amount of insignificance together. Remove one insignificant piece of sand and there is no catastrophe. Remove Billions of insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant pieces. Remove ALL insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant.

So all the sand in your metaphor is gone and i see no significance left to make my or anything elses existence seem "Insignificant"

Your premise that insignificance requires significance is false in my opinion. Everything, to me, is insignificant, and when you lump a bunch of insignificant things together, yeah, you get one big ball of insignificance. So, to answer your question, nothing makes "everything else more significant" because everything else is JUST as insignificant as human life.

[Rainigul]

Yeah, I always thought after you died, you just changed to something else. You're still there, but not necessarily alive or whole or conscious.
Soul is just a term used for your "eternal self". I think it's how you are remembered.

[JacksColon]

Definitions are key here.

soul –noun

1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.
3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person: He feared the soul of the deceased would haunt him.
4. the emotional part of human nature; the seat of the feelings or sentiments.
5. a human being; person.
6. high-mindedness; noble warmth of feeling, spirit or courage, etc.
7. the animating principle; the essential element or part of something.
8. the inspirer or moving spirit of some action, movement, etc.
9. the embodiment of some quality: He was the very soul of tact.
10. (initial capital letter) Christian Science. God; the divine source of all identity and individuality.
11. shared ethnic awareness and pride among black people, esp. black Americans.
12. deeply felt emotion, as conveyed or expressed by a performer or artist.

Most of these I disagree with. But, if I were to accept the term "soul" I'd have to go with #5 or #12. Since I don't believe in spiritual things, I cannot reconcile these concepts of the term "soul" with my beliefs

[XemnasXD]

Ok, first, we disagree on premise. You speak in terms of "purpose" and "whose purpose". Which I believe are false pretenses to start from. Yes, I do believe that IF the universe were to just come to and end, it wouldn't really matter. Why? Because, why would it matter if we are all dead. Supposing the universe ended tomorrow, you and I would both die. In MY view, it doesn't matter because I'm not here to experience whatever aftermath there were, although my view is also that there probably woulnd't be any "Aftermath" because that which comes from nothing can end in nothing.

Also "Grand Scheme" is a figure of speech....ok, by that I mean, in the context of the entire universe. Think of it this way. Think of how many grains of sand there are on ALL of the beaches of the world. Well, in my view, the human species makes up just one grain of those. All of the others are other things within the universe which we are a part of (although that would still make up a small fraction if we're talking true scale here). Take us out, just like you could remove a grain of sand, and nothing happens..no great catastrophy...nothing. Thus, we are insignificant, just as that one grain of sand is insignificant.

But we are not all life. We don't compose nor are we the center of the universe by any means. We are subjected to existence same as everything else. Taking that into account if our grain of sand is insignificant then what keeps the other grains from being just as insignificant. In your belief there is no God no soul just existence so i state again in different terms.

If our existence is insignificant by comparison to the overall existence of everything else, what makes everything else more significant as a whole if individually they are meaningless.

Insignificance requires significance. If everything separately is insignificant what could possibly be gained by combining a large amount of insignificance together. Remove one insignificant piece of sand and there is no catastrophe. Remove Billions of insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant pieces. Remove ALL insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant.

So all the sand in your metaphor is gone and i see no significance left to make my or anything elses existence seem "Insignificant"

Your premise that insignificance requires significance is false in my opinion. Everything, to me, is insignificant, and when you lump a bunch of insignificant things together, yeah, you get one big ball of insignificance. So, to answer your question, nothing makes "everything else more significant" because everything else is JUST as insignificant as human life.

Insignificance is a value given to something based usually on its significance. They go hand and its not a philosophy its the meaning of the word. I think you need to come up with a better word not to break this down into the petty lvl of semantics your right definitions are key.

Then why continue living. If you have a family they will insignificant. If you have kids they will be insignificant. Whether they live or die is insignificant. Whether you live or die is insignificant. Why go on then, why persist a meaningless existence. In the end you will be nothing all that you know whatever insignificant feelings of love you have created with someone else will mean nothing will be nothing so in a sense they are nothing. What makes you wake up everyday and go to school or go to work knowing that no matter what you do it is all pointless, meaningless....insignificant.

Im actually enjoying this discussion ^^

[JacksColon]

You are completely missing my point. And your "understanding" of the terms signifiant and insignificant are off-base.

Insignificant - adjective

1.unimportant, trifling, or petty.
2. too small to be important
3. of no consequence, influence, or distinction
4. without weight of character; contemptible
5. without meaning; meaningless

–noun 6. a word, thing, or person without significance.

Thus, to be insignificant, one must be without significance or lacks significance.

My whole point here is that I don't believe in the concept of a soul in the ways in which you described it. I disagree that we are significant. I don't believe a soul, some "unknown" or "spiritual" component goes on. I think we are all just as igsignificant as a grain of sand when you're discussing the universe as a whole. We aren't special by comparison to the ENTIRE universe. Now, you also miss my point in this way: to say we are insignifiant overall does not mean that we aren't significant in emotional or other ways to those that we know, are friends with, care about. This is a COMPLETELY different idea. So, stop confusing terms.

[XemnasXD]

You are completely missing my point. And your "understanding" of the terms signifiant and insignificant are off-base.

Insignificant - adjective

1. unimportant, trifling, or petty.
2. too small to be important
3. of no consequence, influence, or distinction
4. without weight of character; contemptible
5. without meaning; meaningless

–noun 6. a word, thing, or person without significance.

Thus, to be insignificant, one must be without significance or lacks significance.

Insignificance requires significance.

By definition if something is insignificant it lacks or does not have significance. Which means that something must be significant in order for you to say something lacks significance. I already said that. The definition agrees with me. It sounds like you agree with me as well because your saying....

I think we are all just as igsignificant as a grain of sand when you're discussing the universe as a whole. We aren't special by comparison to the ENTIRE universe.

Your giving Significance to the "Entire Universe" as a whole. But the universe is existence. You said existence is meaningless. If existence is meaningless for us as individually existing things then the same applies to every other individually existing thing in the universe. It must apply otherwise you are giving certain aspects or things in existence that are not a part of the "Entire Universe" a higher significance than the other things which would conflict with the fact that you don't believe in higher powers.

Knowing now that everything in the universe individually is insignificant you cannot add them up to make something significant. 0+0+0+0+infinity 0's /= 1 no matter how hard you try. In other words Because individually everything is meaningless when you add them up you are left with meaninglessness.

Taking into account that everything when combined as a whole =0 and is meaningless you cannot assign insignificance to anything because everything including the entire universe is equally insignificant and insignificance as you already stated REQUIRES SIGNIFICANCE to be insignificant to by comparison. Therefore you contradict yourself because you are assigning insignificance where, according to your statements and the conclusions reached, there cannot be.

To summarize you cannot believe in the "Entire Universe" to be significant because 0+0+0+0+0+0=0. Either you assign significance a value to the things that make up the universe or you cannot believe the "Entire Universe" has value. And if nothing has value or significance then there is no point to existing because it is meaningless/pointless/has no value.

Now, you also miss my point in this way: to say we are insignifiant overall does not mean that we aren't significant in emotional or other ways to those that we know, are friends with, care about. This is a COMPLETELY different idea. So, stop confusing terms.

You are confusing yourself. You are assigning significance to things/aspects that you say when added up mean nothing. Your saying 1+1+1+1+1=0. Either we are significant or we are not. You cannot assign significance/value to the things we do, the relationships we form, the feelings we have without assigning significance to us because these things are a part of us and are what make up our lives our very existence. Which according to all the above data according to you Without Value.

Taking ALL that into account i submit to you my previous questions. Why continue to go on? Why continue to live a meaningless life? You cannot assign value to the experiences that make up life without assigning value to life and thus value to existence because you said existence is meaningless. So then why?

[JacksColon]

Wow, I can't believe you really don't get what I"m trying to say, and you're trying to tell me what I'm saying no less. The entire universe is huge man, freaking huge. There are no doubt millions, if not billions of other intelligent life forms and life forms in general. WE are all made up of the same stuff. EVERYONE. Significance ONLY and ONLY comes from what you assign to it. The universe is so big, to say that we "matter" or are "significant" is completely ridiculous. AND you most certainly can say someone or something is significant to you. YOu can say "man, I really love my mom" and she would play a significant part in your life. But is she, aside from the significance you place on her, really important or significant? Hell no, no more than you or me or some alien a thousand light years away, because when it's all said or done, nothing of that matters. Now you ask me, "why go on?" what the hell kind of question is that. It's not even part of the discussion. Just because we may not matter does not mean we do not get the luxury of feeling emotions and having things matter to US. You're totally conflating terms and getting screwed up with terminology.

so think of it this way. you matter to someone, someone matters to you.

Same goes for me. But, do we as a species matter? Does earth matter? Does anything really matter in an objectively separated way? Minus all of the acknowledge human emotion we put into it or from the notoriously biased human vantage point from which we see it, does it (whatever "it" is which we are referring to) really matter? Hell no.

and you keep saying that because something lacks significance it must have had significance or be able to relate to something with significance. that is complete crap as well. you're making ecological fallacies and screwing up your levels of analysis. You go from talking about everything is significant, even the grains of sand and how the universe matters and how people matter, and if they don't we should all just kill ourselves. I counter by saying, well, no, to me we are all insignificant because we are in a universe that is enormous beyond all comprehension, thus if we were suddenly removed from said universe, it would not matter at ALL. This is different than saying someone or something is or isn't significant to you, like a friend, lover, pet, ipod, whatever. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand?

[XemnasXD]

You don't get it.
1.You started off saying life is meaningless.

to give more meaning to a life the truly is meaningless, no matter how scary that is.

2.I challenged that and you changed it to Everything is insignificant in the "Grand Scheme" of things.

Life not having meaning was meant to be in the grander scheme of things.

3.I challenged that and you changed it to Everything is Insignificant.

So, to answer your question, nothing makes "everything else more significant" because everything else is JUST as insignificant as human life.

4.I challenged that and now you have reached Everything is insignificant on a large scale when compared the existence of everything else.

Now your saying that insignificance is caused by the overwhelming number of things in existence. The only reason why you would consider everything else to actually count as thing in existence is if they had meaning. If they had value of some kind then you could compare it. Like saying Us=1<everything else =999999999999999. But if it has value than it must have a meaning other wise it would be unimportant and we could consider it a 0 which YOU don't want because then it would be saying Us=1<Everything Else = 0+0+0+0+0+etc. Of course we are assuming and assigning value accordingly to everything else out there even though we cannot prove anything out there exist.

Now you have given value and meaning to many lvls of existence. You are saying there is meaning in existence on a personal level. There is meaning in existence on a global level. With these ideas in mind you contradict your statements in theories 1-3. So you have gone from saying life is meaningless to saying that there is great meaning in the very actions that make up our daily lives. That is quite a difference. As i said you are the one who is confused.

You determine our significance to the Universe as a Whole because we have given the Universe as a whole more meaning/value then we give ourselves as a whole. But what if we are the only life-form in the Universe, hypothetically speaking. If we were the only life form than when we are gone proof of everything else is gone. In other words you determine our significance based on the significance that you are now applying to everything else. That is one way of thinking. But it has holes.

Instead of saying we are insignificant it would be better to say we are small. We are small compared to the universe as a whole but not insignificant. We do not know what role we will play in the future or even if we have a future but that does not make us insignificant. "A butterfly beating its wings in China can cause Tornadoes in Kansas" Thats a bit far fetched but i think you understand the overall meaning. Small things have proven very significant throughout history. Rats, Bacteria, ideas. All of them are small things but not insignificant.

So, and i think im done here since you've changed your ideals so many times its hard to keep up, I submit to you that your theories 1-4 are all wrong and that all existence no matter how big or small has value and if it has value than it has meaning even if you are to far away to see it. And if it has meaning then it has purpose and while its purpose may not directly affect you now, it very much will in the "Grand Scheme" of things.

[JacksColon]

Nothing I have said contradicts anything, I'm just trying to get you to understand which is apparently completely impossible to do. life (as human beings) doesn't have a "meaning". if it does, you tell me what it is, and I will gladly challenge that. You cannot sit there and discuss with me that there is some unknown meaning to life or some unknown role. That is a completely unfalsifiable theory, and therefore a crap theory. What I can tell you is that until you can show me some objective "meaning" to life, as a human species, or how humans play a larger role within the universe that prevents utter chaos from happening if we were removed, I"ll buy your infantile thoughts. But you can't because, although you call yourself an atheist, you believe in fanciful and delightful "ideas" of what "might be" and are too scared to realize what is. Life is meaningless. There is no POINT to life, OTHER THAN WHAT WE PRESCRIBE TO IT. why don't you get what I'm saying. I say that, and then you reply back "then why go on living" which is completely ridiculous response if you understood the argument, which you don't. That isn't to say that it's wrong to GIVE meaning to your life, or to the lives of others. But to say that we have a role to play in the universe is not only silly, it's highly egotistical to think that humans really matter at all. You still have not answered my question, which I posed earlier, so I will pose it a new way....

if earth were obliterated tomorrow by an asteroid or whatever, and all life on earth were annihilated, what difference would that make. and if you say "it's an unknown, but we have a role to play, so it matters" you're in a cycle of argument where you can't be disproven and that's crap. not because you're "right" but because you speak in absolutes which you cannot test, therefore, it's crap.

and not once have I assigned a value to anything. I'm just showing you how relatively insignificant we all are. and you reply that by saying that I'm assigning meaning/value to the universe, which is false. I'm just saying the universe is bigger because it obviously is and that is why my metaphor with the beach makes sense.....the metaphor doesn't work on one level howevever. You'd have to think of the beach as an entity all its own...eliminating it's place within the earth. So, ok, we have this "beach" full of grains of sand". We take one grain of saind out - that can represent human beings, or the earth if you like....now, you tell me how that beach (or hell, an enormous bowl of sand) is adversely effected or altered in some meaningful way. you can't....

and just for the record, my ideals have never changed. you just keep trying to put words in my mouth

[JacksColon]

oh, and the funny thing is, I think this argument is fun. But you seem to be getting pissy

[Silkroad]

the soul is beyond human comprehension...thats why i can't explain it , but just like most people that posted i have a general idea of what it is made out to be

[XemnasXD]

I haven't put words in your mouth. I figured you'd say that thats why i added direct quotes from your previous post. Actually if you read my other post in other discussions that have gone on this long you'd see this is quite possibly the calmest one i've ever had.

OT: you changed your idea again now you are saying life has no meaning other than what we prescribe it. Which conflicts with theory 1 of yours that life has no meaning.

You are not a God. You cannot predict what role humans will play in the next 5 min let alone the next years or millennium. To believe that you have such a solid idea of the roles humans will play is near Christian like arrogance. No one not even myself can predict such a thing and so we are left with countless almost infinite options of how we will affect the universe from something as small as leaving a foot print on a different planet to destroying the galaxy. All are possible options you cannot prove any of them wrong because you don't know what will come next.

Having said that i will answer your question. If you remove the grain of sand that is "Human life" from the beach of sand then the beach will have altered in a very dramatic way. The grain of sand that is "Human Life" will be missing You can assign the grain of sand that his "human life" no meaning, that is your choice. But realize that this doesn't make it so because you have no Proof of what impact the loss of humanity may have on the universe. For all you know if earth were to be destroyed whats to stop the fragments from setting off a chain of reactions in our solar system that destroys every other planet in the system, and those fragments went off and destroyed more planets and more and more until the universe is gone. Can you prove that such is thing is not possible. Do you KNOW that such a thing is not possible. You cannot and you do not because you cannot predict the future to that extent. The probability of such a thing is very low but the possibility does exist.

BTW just because im confining my thought to all possible outcomes doesn't make them crap. If you ask me thats a crap excuse for possible ideas that you don't want to consider.

And final i don't know the meaning of life its beyond my understanding right now tbh. But i have an idea of what i want the meaning of MY life to be. And that is good enough for me.

In contrast to you i could easily say your disbelief in the existence of a soul or any other higher power is just your human arrogance refusing to allow the meaning of your life to determined or bound by anything other than yourself. And in an effort to escape the terrible thoughts of reincarnation or life after death you have settled on the belief that neither one is possible.


BTW you better respond with an actual response and not just saying "thats crap" "what your saying is crap" otherwise your no better than the ppl who blindly believe in whatever God they choose and decide that everyone elses ideas and beliefs are "crap" mostly because they refuse to bother trying to understand them...

[JacksColon]

[quote="XemnasXD"]

OT: you changed your idea again now you are saying life has no meaning other than what we prescribe it. Which conflicts with theory 1 of yours that life has no meaning.

Incorrect, if you refer to previous posts ,I have mentioned this. And you're separating my ideas into different "theories" which is false because they are not, in no way, conflicting with each other. It's only how YOU are interpreting them, and if you can't figure it out, well, I don't know what to tell you.

You are not a God.

Never claimed to be. I just don't have the fanciful idea that we "play a role" as you say.

For all you know if earth were to be destroyed whats to stop the fragments from setting off a chain of reactions in our solar system that destroys every other planet in the system, and those fragments went off and destroyed more planets and more and more until the universe is gone. Can you prove that such is thing is not possible.

Yes, gravity would prevent this. and this sort of logic is separating us. you can't REALLY think that????

BTW just because im confining my thought to all possible outcomes doesn't make them crap. If you ask me thats a crap excuse for possible ideas that you don't want to consider.

"confining your thoughts to all possible outcomes" is a contradiction in and of itself. but anyways, sure you can believe ANYTHING is possible...this is the sort of logic that makes retards think they can jump over trees and alcoholics think they can play the lottery and make everything okay. c'mon man, saying anything is possible doesn't mean everything is possible. laws of physics prohibit that.

And final i don't know the meaning of life its beyond my understanding right now tbh. But i have an idea of what i want the meaning of MY life to be. And that is good enough for me

That's great, good for you. But, the point of disagreement is at the premise. You believe that there is a meaning to life, and I do not. You believe that we are part of some larger "role" where I propose we are just here. I believe the universe contains us within it but does not rely on us for any necessary function. Why do I believe this, because just like the tide can come in and wash away grains of sand, a "Galaxy can explode" as you propose, causing the annihilition of millions of life forms and planets and stars, etc. But, do we feel the effects? No. Why is this so? Because, the universe is ever expanding. And according to many current cosmologica/astrophysical theories, at some point, our vantage point of the night sky will become decreasingly bright as the stars and galaxies we can see become further and further away. Eventully, this section of space will become completely isolated from the rest, as will other parts of space become isolated from each other. So, yes, I think this earth, this species, even this region of space is pretty insignificant when compared to the great size and scope of the universe.

[Reise]

Souls are something made up, just like religion.

PROVE ME WRONG!

[JacksColon]

Souls are something made up, just like religion.

PROVE ME WRONG!

thank you

I could have saved a lot of typing

[XemnasXD]

Incorrect, if you refer to previous posts ,I have mentioned this. And you're separating my ideas into different "theories" which is false because they are not, in no way, conflicting with each other. It's only how YOU are interpreting them, and if you can't figure it out, well, I don't know what to tell you.

You presented 4 completely different possibilities to the meaning, or lack thereof, of life. You can say i interpreted them wrong but thats how they were presented. If they are all the same thing then merge them all into a single statement that doesn't contradict itself.

Yes, gravity would prevent this. and this sort of logic is separating us. you can't REALLY think that????
Im sure you've heard of the sling shot effect. Using an immense amount of gravity to propel yourself farther than you normally would've gone. The fragments could easily be pulled inward by the sun gravitational pull at such an angle that they would continue to circle the suns accelerating until the reach the level of speed necessary to break free from the suns gravity (rogue asteroids and comet are capable of breaking free of systems gravity). You insult my intelligence, don't do that. Like i said its very improbable but NOT impossible.

"confining your thoughts to all possible outcomes" is a contradiction in and of itself. but anyways, sure you can believe ANYTHING is possible...this is the sort of logic that makes retards think they can jump over trees and alcoholics think they can play the lottery and make everything okay. c'mon man, saying anything is possible doesn't mean everything is possible. laws of physics prohibit that.

It is not a contradiction it means im limiting my beliefs to anything that is possible. The Current laws of physics are mostly made up of theories. They are theories because they cannot be proven. I'm trying to major in chemistry so believe me when i say that most if not all laws have variables that have not been proven and while widely used in the scientific community it is understood that they are still theories.

That's great, good for you. But, the point of disagreement is at the premise. You believe that there is a meaning to life, and I do not. You believe that we are part of some larger "role" where I propose we are just here. I believe the universe contains us within it but does not rely on us for any necessary function. Why do I believe this, because just like the tide can come in and wash away grains of sand, a "Galaxy can explode" as you propose, causing the annihilition of millions of life forms and planets and stars, etc. But, do we feel the effects? No. Why is this so? Because, the universe is ever expanding. And according to many current cosmologica/astrophysical theories, at some point, our vantage point of the night sky will become decreasingly bright as the stars and galaxies we can see become further and further away. Eventually, this section of space will become completely isolated from the rest, as will other parts of space become isolated from each other. So, yes, I think this earth, this species, even this region of space is pretty insignificant when compared to the great size and scope of the universe.

I said that all existence has meaning. Whether or not it will play a greater role in the galaxy is unknown but just like you feel your relationships with ppl have meaning ALL relationships have meaning. If they affect the universe then so be it but All existence has meaning. The question of significance is no longer in play as that was answered b4 significance is relative and subject solely to PERSONAL opinions. That does not make them FACT. The only thing about us being isolated by comparison to the rest of the universe that IS FACT is that we are very small by comparison.

The universe is based and defined on the things within it. If there was nothing in the universe then it wouldn't exist because it would be nothing. If there was only one thing in the Universe than that one thing WOULD be the entire universe. Just because the universe is vast doesn't mean that everything within it is isolated. If an earthquake on the african coast can set in motion huge waves on the shores of India im pretty sure if some thing happened to a large portion or the universe we would feel it eventually.


You are not responding with to me with facts and logic you are responding with opinions and perspectives.



@ Reise- SOULS ARE REAL PROVE ME WRONG

[JacksColon]

You said:

You are not responding with to me with facts and logic you are responding with opinions and perspectives.

then...


I said that all existence has meaning. Whether or not it will play a greater role in the galaxy is unknown but just like you feel your relationships with ppl have meaning ALL relationships have meaning. If they affect the universe then so be it but [b]All existence has meaning. The question of significance is no longer in play as that was answered b4 significance is relative and subject solely to PERSONAL opinions. That does not make them FACT. The only thing about us being isolated by comparison to the rest of the universe that IS FACT is that we are very small by comparison.[/b]

You really call that a fact? All existence has meaning?? Really, so that's a fact? Hmmmm....all I have to say to that is WOW.









@ Reise- SOULS ARE REAL PROVE ME WRONG [/quote]

Show me that you can experimentally test for a soul...then show me the results of that test that verify a soul exists.....until you can do that, you're proven wrong.

[JacksColon]

anyways, I'm out of work now and going to the UCF basketball game we can continue this later if you'd like

[XemnasXD]

show me test, research, testimony, proof that a soul does not exist and then you'll be right.


This argument is over. Your going in circles. Your saying that you don't believe in a hierarchy but you believe in significance. Your saying that relationships (part of existence) have meaning but not everything else. You've introduced 4 separate ideals on how the universe works have not as i asked placed them into a statement that does not contradict itself and yet your saying you've held the same position the whole time. Now running out all options you've reduced this to Reises aka 4chans level and just said prove me wrong.

You're out theories.
You're out of anything to back up what you say.
You don't have an argument anymore.


The only thing you can say is prove me wrong. Congratulations your blindly following a path without questioning it in the footsteps of every other organized religion out there.

im done....theres nothing left to pick up

[Barotix]

I see the soul as the result of awareness and self realisation.

Too tired to add more sry

which is a result of chemicals in the brain interacting. souls are boring and to abstract.

@xemnas and sirdingyingdong [or something like that] take up theoretical physics; it makes everything clear, trust me
@xemnas, damn dude you're really not taking any of this in and processing it are you? its like talking to a

brick wall

oO you would think a devout Buddhist would understand Sirsoandso to a certain degree...

[redneck]

Good Job Xemnas....you actually made me agree with you... Thats a first.

[Reise]

The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

Just because you think it exists doesn't necessarily mean it does. But I guess that's where they get the term "blind faith" isn't it?

[Barotix]

Ok, first, we disagree on premise. You speak in terms of "purpose" and "whose purpose". Which I believe are false pretenses to start from. Yes, I do believe that IF the universe were to just come to and end, it wouldn't really matter. Why? Because, why would it matter if we are all dead. Supposing the universe ended tomorrow, you and I would both die. In MY view, it doesn't matter because I'm not here to experience whatever aftermath there were, although my view is also that there probably woulnd't be any "Aftermath" because that which comes from nothing can end in nothing.

Also "Grand Scheme" is a figure of speech....ok, by that I mean, in the context of the entire universe. Think of it this way. Think of how many grains of sand there are on ALL of the beaches of the world. Well, in my view, the human species makes up just one grain of those. All of the others are other things within the universe which we are a part of (although that would still make up a small fraction if we're talking true scale here). Take us out, just like you could remove a grain of sand, and nothing happens..no great catastrophy...nothing. Thus, we are insignificant, just as that one grain of sand is insignificant.

But we are not all life. We don't compose nor are we the center of the universe by any means. We are subjected to existence same as everything else. Taking that into account if our grain of sand is insignificant then what keeps the other grains from being just as insignificant. In your belief there is no God no soul just existence so i state again in different terms.

If our existence is insignificant by comparison to the overall existence of everything else, what makes everything else more significant as a whole if individually they are meaningless.

Insignificance requires significance. If everything separately is insignificant what could possibly be gained by combining a large amount of insignificance together. Remove one insignificant piece of sand and there is no catastrophe. Remove Billions of insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant pieces. Remove ALL insignificant pieces of sand and there is no catastrophe because they are all insignificant.

So all the sand in your metaphor is gone and i see no significance left to make my or anything elses existence seem "Insignificant"

Your premise that insignificance requires significance is false in my opinion. Everything, to me, is insignificant, and when you lump a bunch of insignificant things together, yeah, you get one big ball of insignificance. So, to answer your question, nothing makes "everything else more significant" because everything else is JUST as insignificant as human life.

Insignificance is a value given to something based usually on its significance. They go hand and its not a philosophy its the meaning of the word. I think you need to come up with a better word not to break this down into the petty lvl of semantics your right definitions are key.

Then why continue living. If you have a family they will insignificant. If you have kids they will be insignificant. Whether they live or die is insignificant. Whether you live or die is insignificant. Why go on then, why persist a meaningless existence. In the end you will be nothing all that you know whatever insignificant feelings of love you have created with someone else will mean nothing will be nothing so in a sense they are nothing. What makes you wake up everyday and go to school or go to work knowing that no matter what you do it is all pointless, meaningless....insignificant.

Im actually enjoying this discussion ^^

men live because instinctively they want to carry on their family lineage. so we live to reproduce basically. take away our developed brain and the idea of soul wont even be an aspect
women live to have children [instinctively] society simply builds on that.

its pointless to add meaning to something meaningless. just live your life the way you see fit and you will find meaning or this soul you speak of . when i finish my studies in theoretical physics im converting to Zen Buddhism.

[XemnasXD]

The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

Just because you think it exists doesn't necessarily mean it does. But I guess that's where they get the term "blind faith" isn't it?

that can go both ways since there is no solid evidence for either side...


@barotix don't call me a brickwall.

Anyone who blindly follows a path be it spiritual or scientific is a brick wall. Dingy seemed to be stuck that existence is meaningless and content that there was no other options. I took the evidence he used and showed him it it contradicted itself. By beliefs are not concrete they are theories that are subject to change and i don't see how taking a physics course will help especially since we are talking about the meta-physical and hardly anything in physics is concrete as i have already stated it is all theories....

[Reise]

The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

Just because you think it exists doesn't necessarily mean it does. But I guess that's where they get the term "blind faith" isn't it?

that can go both ways since there is no solid evidence for either side...

So here's the big question: Why believe in something that may or may not exist?

Since it's all based on opinion there's no need for people to get bent out of shape.

[XemnasXD]

The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

Just because you think it exists doesn't necessarily mean it does. But I guess that's where they get the term "blind faith" isn't it?

that can go both ways since there is no solid evidence for either side...

So here's the big question: Why believe in something that may or may not exist?

Since it's all based on opinion there's no need for people to get bent out of shape.

I took a psychology course and in it we discussed how colors smells and the things were see don't really exist but are just what our senses enable us to process. Color is particle/wave vibrations. Smell only exist if you have a nose and the smell of something only if its strong enough. What we see i only whats reflected by light back into our eyes.

If you really think about it you can't prove anything actually exist or is concrete. I think that ppl (including myself) feel a bit more sane when they've gotten other ppl to see things the way do...it makes what they belief more concrete and when someone doesn't believe the things you do there beliefs threaten to contradict and thus disprove your beliefs on your existence which is a scary thing.

[Silver0]

Doesnt exist the abstract noun and concrete noun prove it
a concrete a phsycal thing
a abstract is thoughts and ideas
what is a soul
thoughts and ideas
are abstract nouns every a concrete NEVER