Why Euros are OVERPOWERED

[Carnophage]

disagree with you. try to do a job alone as euro you will die many times while you can survive it as china.
euros are meant to be assist class to china never was made to be alone either assist china or work as a group Euro together.

Ok so in what kind of situation can a china char survive when a euro would not?
Cause i've been trading on my low lv30 euro warlock and i've had as much trouble as on my china char back when i was 30. Probably even less.

people moan too much about euro being overpowered while they totally arent, yes you might get 1 crit by a rogue or 1 nuked by a wizard but there are ways to protect yourself against them use them

Which ways are that. Cause if you're talking about ice/fire wall outside of safe zone reach you will not have enough time to use those.

you cant always grind in groups or do job in groups i am the type of player that does like to do whatever i want whenever i want it i don`t think i would be able to do that as an euro build.

Yes i feel the same way. But since grinding has become botting/powerleveling in this game it isn't really an issue to get a high level euro char anymore.

the game is not about what race you take. its about combining different aspects to make a good working group.
what do you consider the leeching race? all the euros that get power levelled by china chars? or the euros that help china chars in pvp? basically none is leeching this is supposed to be a multi player game you help me i help you kinda mentality, i prefer to be able to solo from time to time a thing that is really hard with an euro char can be done but its hard

So basicly the function of the chinese race has become to level up the euro race to fight in guildwars?

[borat2]

no the function of euro is practically the same as china, be able to combine different builds in 1 party to grind/job/pvp.

a situation a china can easily survive than an euro, well that cant be that hard to think of: thieving alone, just anything ALONE is harder for Euro builds.
you can destroy a whole trade alone easier as china char than euro without mercs, special buffs just you alone.

there are more things than ice/fire walls to stop euros the fans/castle/mana shield, a simple block from a shield can already destroy a whole attack of an euro.

the game never was an issue to get to higher level.

the game is actually balanced just simple minded people focus too much on things like damage euro makes.

[urtoasty]

ok, stop your whining. JOYMAX put in the euros to make the chinese chars. work together. That is were all the force trees come in. Making chinese build clerics and mages and warriors. Its just the same as euros.

i know they are overpowered too. Just get used to it or build a euro yourself.

[Carnophage]

a situation a china can easily survive than an euro, well that cant be that hard to think of: thieving alone, just anything ALONE is harder for Euro builds.
you can destroy a whole trade alone easier as china char than euro without mercs, special buffs just you alone.

Thats total nonsense. That brings you back to 1v1. If you see two equally skilled and equipped chinese pvp it is never an easy short fight. Raiding a trade is only easy if the trader is weaker. How much difficulty does fullskilled wizard have with killing a fullskilled blader?

there are more things than ice/fire walls to stop euros the fans/castle/mana shield, a simple block from a shield can already destroy a whole attack of an euro.

So how is a fan stopping a 2H swordsman. And how is an iron shield stopping a wizard. A simple block form a shield can destroy an attack the same way it does one of a chinese. But that doesn't matter much if he only needs 1 or 2 hits. The point is. A normally equipped euro does way way way way more damage then a fully equipped seal of sun player.

the game never was an issue to get to higher level.

the game is actually balanced just simple minded people focus too much on things like damage euro makes.

Lol a mmorpg without the issue to get higher level are you kidding me?

Just think about it. New race. No SoX 52+ and 64+ weapons and gear for it. But they do damage like Sun anyway.

[borat2]

guess i should explain my situation better
you as china sword shield pure int facing 3 or 4 hunters/traders

you can take them about by using snow shield walls and so on guess you dont picture the situation correctly i am trying to find that thief videos.
its not 1on1 its 1 vs4
you as fullskilled wizard facing 4guys you will die after your first nuke
while the china char will survive and might take them one by one down

euro is overpowered in the 1on1 situation indeed but when you talk about group moments then china will perform better.


damage doesnt make a build being overpowered its all elements of a build that determines if its overpowered or not, guess you just agreed with me that euros arent overpowered since a wizard does crazy damage but dies even faster from lower levels you cant call that being overpowered.


mmorpg are there to enjoy gaming with others its not about being higher level or hitting the maximum level, yes you might have a bit more fun when you are higher level but that usually involves lame actions like killing lower levels, that is in my opinion not the definition of having fun i rather enjoy grinding and doing jobs with equal skilled people.

you don`t go as a pro gamer in a shooter to a random low skilled server to trash people down you try to find equal skilled people and face them as a challenge.


euros are there for team play (i haven't seen any euro actually own a trade without mercs for example a thing you can do as china, maybe i should job more but i usually have no time for that)

that wizard can nuke you for tons of damage but if he cant take a hit when the china blocks it why you call him overpowered? in damage yes indeed but not in defense so it makes it even.

[phulshof]

What would you need a chinese nuker or glavier in a party for if you can keep a 2h swordsman or a wizard alive just as long with your cleric?

Heh, I'll take that battle. You bring your 2H swordsman and your cleric; I'll bring my nuker and my cleric. While your cleric's busy trying to keep your 2H swordsman alive, I think the two of us will be doing some damage. Seriously, I think you underestimate how busy clerics and bards are in Euro parties to keep everybody up and fighting, and the more people in the party, the harder it gets.

Also: how many Euro characters do you think can go 1 on 5 against party generals? My sword/shield nuker can. I was even fighting 2 party giants and 2 normal parties for 10 minutes (the normals died and others replaced them in that time) before others joined in the fight. You show me the Euro character that can survive that. Ok, perhaps a 1 handed sword/shield with cleric sub, but even he'd have some trouble I think.

[foudre]

It all depends on what you see as overpowered. Try pvping a lvl 80 2h warrior with 80 cleric submastery... You need hella luck [lotsa blocks... the warrior not critting... you stunning or knocking down enough... freeze the **** outa them... RUN...]. Killing them while theirs skins or bless is on is a bitch. Atleast you can still kill a lvl 80 int with a 50% mana shield on. The lvl 80 warrior on the other hand will out tank as long as those buffs last. Out lasting them isn't easy neither while they can drop you in one daredevil if you're an int or 3 or 4 skills for a str. In a warring situation, we versed a guild that had two 2-h warriors with cleric sub, a rogue with cleric sub, and 2 chinese glaivers vs 8 chinese on our side. Their bless spells, skins, damage sharing... etc made it extremely difficult to drop them, and to make it more interesting we had it in the chin tomb. With their ressing they were always together and had all men standing while we chinese had to run there. Every now and then we were able to wipe them all out before they could res, but we lost the war nonetheless.

It takes chinese players with decent coordination to take them out. Both our groups were on seperate vents and have had no trouble warring other guilds. A small group of euros is hella trouble even for 8+ chinese characters. Whether this game needs teamplay or not is obvious, but damn, euros are needed to aid chinese.

this gave me a funny thought, if you had 4 warriors with sub cleric, they could keep bless up 100% of the time and with pain quota, and the fences and the skins, even if their damage isn't that amazing they could selectivly all target the same guy and no one would be able to kill them, and they could pick off every oppenent down the line,

[dodledoy]

k i got three solutions

1)make a euro
2)get some skill with ur china acc
3)call some friends and play outside

[Carnophage]

guess i should explain my situation better
you as china sword shield pure int facing 3 or 4 hunters/traders

you can take them about by using snow shield walls and so on guess you dont picture the situation correctly i am trying to find that thief videos.
its not 1on1 its 1 vs4
you as fullskilled wizard facing 4guys you will die after your first nuke
while the china char will survive and might take them one by one down

The whole situation you sketched still depends on the 4 other people.

If you take 1 full skilled full int nuker vs 4 other full skilled chars there is no way you will win if all of them are wearing equal gear.

I'd actually prefer a wizard in a situation like that over a full int. Fear, bind, knockback + sick damage and to top it off invisibility.

[DrunkiMunki]

k i got three solutions

1)make a euro
2)get some skill with ur china acc
3)call some friends and play outside

Wise words.

[Carnophage]

Heh, I'll take that battle. You bring your 2H swordsman and your cleric; I'll bring my nuker and my cleric. While your cleric's busy trying to keep your 2H swordsman alive, I think the two of us will be doing some damage. Seriously, I think you underestimate how busy clerics and bards are in Euro parties to keep everybody up and fighting, and the more people in the party, the harder it gets.

I want to see that actually. Curious what the outcome would be.

snow shield + iron shield can be tough for the warrior but a cleric with warrior screens on him thats hard to beat

Also: how many Euro characters do you think can go 1 on 5 against party generals? My sword/shield nuker can. I was even fighting 2 party giants and 2 normal parties for 10 minutes (the normals died and others replaced them in that time) before others joined in the fight. You show me the Euro character that can survive that. Ok, perhaps a 1 handed sword/shield with cleric sub, but even he'd have some trouble I think.

As for PVE china is overpowered i know

[Sundalo50]

euro is overpowered in the 1on1 situation indeed but when you talk about group moments then china will perform better.

euros are there for team play (i haven't seen any euro actually own a trade without mercs for example a thing you can do as china, maybe i should job more but i usually have no time for that)

anyone else see this as a contradiction?

[Wello27]

Personally I don't understand how Euro or Chinese players don't see a problem with this.

Chinese: Euros are overpowered, too much Damage.

Euros: We have shitty HP and Def and get 1 shot. We can only win if we 1 hit you. So its fair.

RETARDED MONKEY DOUCHEBAG!!!

How is that fair? How is that balanced? How is that ok?

Euro 1 shot a Chinese. Chinese 1 shot a Euro.

Yeah this totally balanced, this is so much fun.

Incredibly lame. And if you don't see anything wrong with this, you're lame also.

[ping_lo]

im sick of this bullshit everywhere, you dont notice that you can 1hit almost every europe? Im lvl 74 rogue, if i dont 1hit my oppenent, im dead.
Stop crying and learn how to play your char.

+1

[Carnophage]

+1

I just watched lv80 rogue/warlock pvp a lv80 nuker with sun spear and sun gear and they tied. 2 - 2 matches.
He pvp'd a whole lot more people and none of the other including me were able to one hit him.

Believe me rogues at 80 aren't that easy to kill.

[Renton]

+1

I just watched lv80 rogue/warlock pvp a lv80 nuker with sun spear and sun gear and they tied. 2 - 2 matches.
He pvp'd a whole lot more people and none of the other including me were able to one hit him.

Believe me rogues at 80 aren't that easy to kill.

If you can manage to get the first hit with dagger desprate(Crossbow gotta use phy) you -should- kill him or be killed. Just how it is. Nukers would have to kd then stab him just because nukes would take too long of a charge or get a lucky block in the charge.

Yeah it isn't easy.

[Carnophage]

Well the rogue in fact has warlock sub skill, so there isn't much to hit when you're either stunned or asleep ^^
Add bleed+div+weaken etc.

Just watched another one with a 80 warrior vs the same sun spear nuker. Spear nuker barely won.

I still say 52+ euro chars have gotten some sort of advantage from JM. Even if its only 5%. I guess we will see when SoX items will drop at high lvls for euros.

[/Pi]

I guess no one wants free hugs.

[casqueda]

You are a noob.

[EngravedDemon]

Euros are overpowered... Only because some of them are actually smart enough to cover up their weaknesses...

Like I posted before, if you insist on pitting yourself against euro characters, you should start completely changing the way you do pvp... Pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 isn't just gonna be enough anymore.

[DragonTalon]

thing is euros are designed to kill you FAST but they also have skills to do that FIRST.

fire detection doesn't even come close to being viable here. in fact almost all the detection skills are CRAP. i laugh whenever i see someone using it trying to detect me in my level 1 invis or anyone else. imo if they want to follow wow and make classes modelled after wow, then make the counters to them about the same if not DON'T.

+8000000.... Finally someone who understands that fire combustion is the worst "counter" (if you can still call it that) in the fuckin world. Book 4 has like a 15M range... And what kind of rogue is retarded enough to stand right next to you when they're invisible?

[Naigasakis_Rebirth]

thing is euros are designed to kill you FAST but they also have skills to do that FIRST.

fire detection doesn't even come close to being viable here. in fact almost all the detection skills are CRAP. i laugh whenever i see someone using it trying to detect me in my level 1 invis or anyone else. imo if they want to follow wow and make classes modelled after wow, then make the counters to them about the same if not DON'T.

+8000000.... Finally someone who understands that fire combustion is the worst "counter" (if you can still call it that) in the fuckin world. Book 4 has like a 15M range... And what kind of rogue is retarded enough to stand right next to you when they're invisible?

+1, only good rouge is a dead rouge imo. The best thing a chinese character can do with the crappy detect skills is keep moving...

[EngravedDemon]

thing is euros are designed to kill you FAST but they also have skills to do that FIRST.

fire detection doesn't even come close to being viable here. in fact almost all the detection skills are CRAP. i laugh whenever i see someone using it trying to detect me in my level 1 invis or anyone else. imo if they want to follow wow and make classes modelled after wow, then make the counters to them about the same if not DON'T.

+8000000.... Finally someone who understands that fire combustion is the worst "counter" (if you can still call it that) in the fuckin world. Book 4 has like a 15M range... And what kind of rogue is retarded enough to stand right next to you when they're invisible?

+1, only good rouge is a dead rouge imo. The best thing a chinese character can do with the crappy detect skills is keep moving...

Uhmm, again... Why does it have to be just euro vs chinese? A warrior/wizard and another rogue have detection skills...

Also, isn't it the rule of the thumb dealing with rogues? To move around? If you're stationary, then you make it too easy for a slowed stealth rogue to pick you off... *Shrugs*

[DragonTalon]

thing is euros are designed to kill you FAST but they also have skills to do that FIRST.

fire detection doesn't even come close to being viable here. in fact almost all the detection skills are CRAP. i laugh whenever i see someone using it trying to detect me in my level 1 invis or anyone else. imo if they want to follow wow and make classes modelled after wow, then make the counters to them about the same if not DON'T.

+8000000.... Finally someone who understands that fire combustion is the worst "counter" (if you can still call it that) in the fuckin world. Book 4 has like a 15M range... And what kind of rogue is retarded enough to stand right next to you when they're invisible?

+1, only good rouge is a dead rouge imo. The best thing a chinese character can do with the crappy detect skills is keep moving...

Uhmm, again... Why does it have to be just euro vs chinese? A warrior/wizard and another rogue have detection skills...

Also, isn't it the rule of the thumb dealing with rogues? To move around? If you're stationary, then you make it too easy for a slowed stealth rogue to pick you off... *Shrugs*

Well I just dont understand how people know when to run. They're invisible so how would you know to run or not to run? I mean if you run and theirs nobody their then you just wasted 10 minutes running away from nothing?

[Naigasakis_Rebirth]

Because euro on euro matches are a game of who targets and presses the skill first after bless spell has faded -.-

And yes that is the rule at hand which works fine for rouges, but not so much against wizards.

[punch]

not exactly sure how destealth or descry works, but i heard they can't detect wizard's invis. wizard's invis detection skill works something like combustion too, aka CRAP. if one wizard uses it he's basically saying "SHOOT ME".

have fun running for a few minutes until you get tired in cape battle while i'm pwning others/watching pvp. when you finally decide to come back i'll just kill you again. for trades have fun running away from your caravan. euros are designed for thieving so it doesn't go the other way for stealth/invis chars.

actually i don't have much of a problem against rogues, they're quite easy to counter if you know what you're doing. wizards, however, are just a bitch to counter since they don't have to rely on crit and they have range. as stated, a 1 hit ko each other game has "IMBA" written all over it. put an almost impossible to counter invis in that and it's just lol...

i still haven't seen why euro should "work together" with chinese when their specialised nature makes them far superior in a party together.

all the euros that get power levelled by china chars? or the euros that help china chars in pvp?

if euros are helping china chars in pvp, aren't the chinese leeching? as for plvl, yea euros are being powerlevelled, chinese aren't? there are quite a few wizard plvlers now too.

[Naigasakis_Rebirth]

For trades have fun running away from your caravan. euros are designed for thieving so it doesn't go the other way for stealth/invis chars.

LOL europeans blow at trades. Sure they can clear the trade the first time but their chances of escaping with said loot is next to nothing.

If anything europeans make good hunters not thieves bud.

[punch]

yea sure they can't escape with a 3*+ loot alone, but hasn't it been established they rock in parties? let the stealth/invis guys pwn the trade while the others come and help them mop up the floor. besides you don't see chinese escaping with that much loot alone too.

[jabbers]

thing is euros are designed to kill you FAST but they also have skills to do that FIRST.

fire detection doesn't even come close to being viable here. in fact almost all the detection skills are CRAP. i laugh whenever i see someone using it trying to detect me in my level 1 invis or anyone else. imo if they want to follow wow and make classes modelled after wow, then make the counters to them about the same if not DON'T.

+8000000.... Finally someone who understands that fire combustion is the worst "counter" (if you can still call it that) in the fuckin world. Book 4 has like a 15M range... And what kind of rogue is retarded enough to stand right next to you when they're invisible?

its good for those 'safe zone' fights though since it's range will extend into the city, I've used it alot on rogues/wizards standing at the gate waiting to go out, the good thing is that it stays on them as a staus effect so anyone can see them, but only lasts about 1-2 mins. I don't know if it works against maxed out stealth though, which is like lvl 9 or something, fire combustion light detect lvl 8 :S

[EngravedDemon]

If everyone's really so agitated with Rogue and wizard invis...

Go buy a 30k Pill to detect upto lvl 9 stealth and invis... The pill lasts for a 30 sec i think or a minute, detects anyone within 10m and yes, you're dumb if you stay in place and waste it, just like how you waste the combustion buff waiting on one spot, they aren't that stupid... LoL!

And again, it really just comes down to how you deal with it, there's the smart way and the dumb way, reason why you're probably here whining...