Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[nphillip]

XemnasXD .. out of curiosty, do you even have a rogue/cleric?

[CHIPS]

Bard if you use xbow. Cleric if you use dagger. Warrior if you want to wear heavy armor and use Shield Trash. Warlock for killing party mobs faster.

My rogue subs cleric so I voted cleric.

[Da_Realest]

most ppl here are talking about the Rogue as a Solo build. I don't think that many of us plan on using a sub for anything other than to help us out. If we were tbh i'd still go with cleric only because with that pot delay healing and def is more important in a fight than anything bard can offer afaik. Most wars take place at the gate or are organized so you can be around the participates when it starts. I've only been in one war that started when everyone was scattered and the first order my GL said was get to DW. With that in mind during the war just stay within range of the cleric and you'll be fine bard has a wider range i think but its not like ppl can't move closer to each other....

Oh, ok. I understand.

[torinchibi]

I don't think bless stacks indefinitely, only 2 times. So you only need 2 clerics to have that double stack.

Done it 3 times. I got nuked for 500 dmg from a lvl 80 with +7 sword...since I had 2.5k M def at level 4x or somewhere around there. It needs to be different levels to stack I think....

If you are able to have another bard in your party(I think they work if someone else just equips a harp), the bard dances are more useful than cleric buffs in my opinion.

The other bard person must be using guard or mana tambor skill and you must be within range to be able to dance...also, that would make you a buffer since you cannot attack with harp if you are pure str. Unless you are in a party full of 1 type of chars {nukers or str} the buffs are not really effective. Attack rating might be somewhat useful, but if you already have nice equips with good attack rating the gain is minimal. I personally think acting as a rogue and adding to the dps would be better than sitting there and dancing...at least as a cleric you can be a little useful and use party heals. Parties would probably have 1 bard and 1 cleric, so if in the other 6 spots, 1 is weak rogue/bard and the other 5 are nukers, then sure, the rogue/bard would be useful with that 34% m. atk increase dance....but if it's full of wizards or mixed chars, it would be useless to have more m atk since wiz would 1 shot and the rest would not benefit from 1 type of dance...I hate how they screwed the bard buffs like that.

[Da_Realest]

I don't think bless stacks indefinitely, only 2 times. So you only need 2 clerics to have that double stack.

Done it 3 times. I got nuked for 500 dmg from a lvl 80 with +7 sword...since I had 2.5k M def at level 4x or somewhere around there. It needs to be different levels to stack I think....

Yea, they need to be different levels to attack. The strongest must be casted first I think. Anyway, some evidence.

The other bard person must be using guard or mana tambor skill and you must be within range to be able to dance...also, that would make you a buffer since you cannot attack with harp if you are pure str. Unless you are in a party full of 1 type of chars {nukers or str} the buffs are not really effective. Attack rating might be somewhat useful, but if you already have nice equips with good attack rating the gain is minimal. I personally think acting as a rogue and adding to the dps would be better than sitting there and dancing...at least as a cleric you can be a little useful and use party heals. Parties would probably have 1 bard and 1 cleric, so if in the other 6 spots, 1 is weak rogue/bard and the other 5 are nukers, then sure, the rogue/bard would be useful with that 34% m. atk increase dance....but if it's full of wizards or mixed chars, it would be useless to have more m atk since wiz would 1 shot and the rest would not benefit from 1 type of dance...I hate how they screwed the bard buffs like that.

I'm aware of the range issue and that you would have to become a buffer. I don't see how range could be a issue since bards don't need to leave a safe zone. Either way, an increase in damage is better than no increase in damage. All Chinese characters benefit if the magical attack increase is applied. Everyone would benefit from Dancing of Healing since it increases the amount of HP pots restore and the amount of HP that Cleric and Force skills heal. Even saying that, I think it would be best to use the buffs based on the strengths and weaknesses of your party.

You won't be that much of an effective healer. Being pure str and constantly needing to heal, mp would be an issue. You could switch back to rogue to continue attacking but any healing skill that heals over time is severely weakened.

Becoming a buffer and remaining in safe zone a bit also lowers the enemy's hostility towards you since there is nothing they can do to get to you. You could switch back to rogue and catch them off guard. Also, you don't need another bard to benefit from the damage absorption skills.

[torinchibi]

I don't think bless stacks indefinitely, only 2 times. So you only need 2 clerics to have that double stack.

Done it 3 times. I got nuked for 500 dmg from a lvl 80 with +7 sword...since I had 2.5k M def at level 4x or somewhere around there. It needs to be different levels to stack I think....

Yea, they need to be different levels to attack. The strongest must be casted first I think. Anyway, some evidence.



You won't be that much of an effective healer. Being pure str and constantly needing to heal, mp would be an issue. You could switch back to rogue to continue attacking but any healing skill that heals over time is severely weakened.

Becoming a buffer and remaining in safe zone a bit also lowers the enemy's hostility towards you since there is nothing they can do to get to you. You could switch back to rogue and catch them off guard. Also, you don't need another bard to benefit from the damage absorption skills.

[/color]

....I had no idea you are Lust....I guess I was 42 when I did it since that's me in the bottom right corner of that screenshot!

Yeah, those dmg absorbtions are pretty nice, but being a rogue as a main, the dmg buffs are probably less useful to a euro party than another person doing the killing, especially since they are only against 1 type of dmg, so it's bad against mixed opponents.

Yeah, mp is a problem, but you can still pretty much throw in 2-3 group heals in 15 sec.

The bard buffs would be more useful in a siege where you can start off with parties full of long range nukers and long range str in the begining without worrying much of getting killed, but again, since rogues are long range, an extra attacker might be more useful.


So yeah, bards are about as useful as clerics if they buff from the safe zone, but outside of safe zones, Clerics can tank more due to passives and a shield, and if the bard gets killed the buffs are less useful than if the cleric gets killed.

[XemnasXD]

i wonder how much MP would effect someone who uses Warlock as a sub for the debuffs....does anyone know if they cost alot of mana....

[torinchibi]

i wonder how much MP would effect someone who uses Warlock as a sub for the debuffs....does anyone know if they cost alot of mana....

Comparatively, as much as wizard nukes... too bad you use them 3x faster. So at level 80, you get to use 4-5 of those and end up with 0 mp, that's 5 sec....then you pot and you can pretty much use the rogue skills for the next 30 secs and wouldn't need to repot for a while since those are 1k mp each and take a good 2.5-3 secs to use, giving enough time to repot.

As long as you don't use more than 3 debuffs I guess you won't run out of mp...since those pots affect pure str less than they do pure int, so 1 x-l will probably repot less than 5k mp every 15 sec.

You can always run around for a bit before you need to re-debuff.

[Berto]

What happened to wizard subclass? They make a great sub specially since you can use teleport without needing to equip anything, earth fence pwns, and the invisibility is awesome too. Wizard makes an awesome extension and alternative to many other subs. Ive tested it and approved.

[XemnasXD]

i was pretty sire you need a staff in your hand to cast teleport and you don't need invisibility since you have stealth also earth fence pales compared to bless....i could be wrong on the teleport thing i'll ask around but even with teleport whats the point....you'd end up getting farther with scud and porting to instantly remove stealth so no real sneak attack....

[torinchibi]

i was pretty sire you need a staff in your hand to cast teleport and you don't need invisibility since you have stealth also earth fence pales compared to bless....i could be wrong on the teleport thing i'll ask around but even with teleport whats the point....you'd end up getting farther with scud and porting to instantly remove stealth so no real sneak attack....

Teleport can be used with any weapon.


I would still go cleric and even bard over wizard simply because you can be a buffer if you need to do so, however, wizard adds a lot more advantages than bard in PvP with it's barrier, root, and mana drought.

[XemnasXD]

i was pretty sire you need a staff in your hand to cast teleport and you don't need invisibility since you have stealth also earth fence pales compared to bless....i could be wrong on the teleport thing i'll ask around but even with teleport whats the point....you'd end up getting farther with scud and porting to instantly remove stealth so no real sneak attack....

Teleport can be used with any weapon.


I would still go cleric and even bard over wizard simply because you can be a buffer if you need to do so, however, wizard adds a lot more advantages than bard in PvP with it's barrier, root, and mana drought.

hmm.....anyone got a Rogue/Wizard then cause it does sound more useful than i thought....still bless>barrier and clerics have heaven flash.....teleport sounds good thought bt i stand by the thing i said about scud....int guys aren't really a problem for rogues so mana drought would be pointless on them but i wonder what it would do to STR's

[casqueda]

cleric is more solo oriented, its what i prefer

[Etrad]

hmm.....anyone got a Rogue/Wizard then cause it does sound more useful than i thought....still bless>barrier and clerics have heaven flash.....teleport sounds good thought bt i stand by the thing i said about scud....int guys aren't really a problem for rogues so mana drought would be pointless on them but i wonder what it would do to STR's

Well, they also have Fear (lightning shock/impact), and 54% absorption at lvl 80 is pretty high...

Friend bard buff/speed pot + teleport = chinese lightning's grasswalk + ghost walk.

The only problem with wiz sub is that it is purely only meant for pvping, cause most of the skills are cast-based instead of buffs. Cleric is probably the most balanced one, and bard is the pve specialist sub (noise > 45s/2min cooldown bless spell in places like Donwhang cave).

[torinchibi]

hmm.....anyone got a Rogue/Wizard then cause it does sound more useful than i thought....still bless>barrier and clerics have heaven flash.....teleport sounds good thought bt i stand by the thing i said about scud....int guys aren't really a problem for rogues so mana drought would be pointless on them but i wonder what it would do to STR's

Well, they also have Fear (lightning shock/impact), and 54% absorption at lvl 80 is pretty high...

Friend bard buff/speed pot + teleport = chinese lightning's grasswalk + ghost walk.

The only problem with wiz sub is that it is purely only meant for pvping, cause most of the skills are cast-based instead of buffs. Cleric is probably the most balanced one, and bard is the pve specialist sub (noise > 45s/2min cooldown bless spell in places like Donwhang cave).

Barrier is 42% at level 80....but mana drought is super useful after 76....when it increases pot delay by 4 sec...

The problem with the wizard subclass is that it would require switching way too much and 20 secs would not be enough to kill someone strong.

[noobert mclagg]

I say if your going to use a caster as your sub it should be warlock because debuffs take about half a sec to cast and im sure that they cost less mana to cast cause all wiz skills cost a ton of mana, but i could get a definate amount of mana to cast debuffs tonight for most if not all.

[noobert mclagg]

these are the main warlock debuffs u would use up to lvl 80
1.physical raze 72mp
2.combat raze 214 mp
3.courage raze 408 mp
4. physical ravage 1147 mp
5.daze 65mp
6.fog sight 107mp
7.wrath daze 1284
8.vampire touch 65mp for lvl 4
9.vampire kiss 345mp
10.slumber 65mp
11.wheelbind 107mp
12.deep slumber 1284 mp

[torinchibi]

these are the main warlock debuffs u would use up to lvl 80
1.physical raze 72mp
2.combat raze 214 mp
3.courage raze 408 mp
4. physical ravage 1147 mp
5.daze 65mp
6.fog sight 107mp
7.wrath daze 1284
8.vampire touch 65mp for lvl 4
9.vampire kiss 345mp
10.slumber 65mp
11.wheelbind 107mp
12.deep slumber 1284 mp

...at level 80, all of those are 1500-2000 mp costs....and you would have 9-10k max mp as a pure str. wizard skills cost about the same but they are just not as useful as a warlock's.

[XemnasXD]

so cast like 3 debuffs and you should be fine MP wise...


Also bumped to cut down on the stupid.....-_-

[Sh4dowwarrior]

I am a lvl 70 Cleric with sub warrior, If you just make your Cleric lill bit hybrid and put it on some heavy armor your just fine...

[XemnasXD]

....this is a Rogue discussion....im pretty sure everyone here is happy with there rogue they're just looking for a subclass to make it better

[thAi]

Is there any skills that you can cast on yourself in cleric tree and switch back to bow and still have it on? For example, when put on bless, str increase buff or int increase buff and switch to your crossbow, will you still have it on?

[Sh4dowwarrior]

Is there any skills that you can cast on yourself in cleric tree and switch back to bow and still have it on? For example, when put on bless, str increase buff or int increase buff and switch to your crossbow, will you still have it on?

it are 2 skills actually =p

[Weirdo]

So I have read this whole topic and I still don't know exactly what to choose. I think im going to choose bard because I like the Hit- and run style.

But anyone who would like to change my mind or would like to say that bard is indeed the best choise pros and cons are welcome !

[Anotherplyer]

im going to take bard pve, and then delvl it to get cleric for pvp. This might take a alot of work.. , so i think its better to just choose one in the beginning.
i basically see it as
Bard-mostly pve (cheaper in drugs and faster lvling)
Cleric-mostly pvp (heals help in pve too, compensates for pots and defence)
Warlock-pvp (stun style )
warrior-pvp (not sure?)

[-.-]

i took bard, its a little better for group pvping

i mean, rogues can kill 1 or 2 people without any sub, more than that, any amount of recovery division/bless wont save you, just make you live about a minute longer...

so in groups, I prefer having a real cleric, and then use xbow and take out their cleric first and maybe a nuker, after that if there are too many str people, I switch to bard and let rest of team fight the str people, rogues really arent meant to be tanking anyways so if you cant fight in a pot battle, might as well buff for people who can, and if there is already a full time cleric, then bard buffs help more since str clerics cant do continous healing anyways

edit: i found having a bard/cleric in pt helps too, you can bard, and cleric uses recovery division then switch to bard and both of you can tamobur+dance and the recovery division still works great since harp is magic weapon too

[Anotherplyer]

....
edit: i found having a bard/cleric in pt helps too, you can bard, and cleric uses recovery division then switch to bard and both of you can tamobur+dance and the recovery division still works great since harp is magic weapon too

+1 have one myself ,

it just mainly comes down to what you want in soloing and pvp, although many pvp for euro are pretty short
partying=sitck with your job

[SaoKill]

You forgot wizard...
As Sylhana...
Wizard would be amazing for
A. Hit and Run
1. You can prick + butterfly blow/mortal wounds
a. than teleport to safety
b. if someone else is attacking you, switch to staff and knockback

[K a R e E m]

bard is the best subclass for lvling
and for pvp the warlock if you have time to debuff then attack
but still the bard is the best as it need few sp and no much farm
specially if you use dagger or xbow not both

[BloodOwnzzz]

Bump because of the others made.