Debate! Capitalism

[JacksColon]

I want to know what you people think of capitalism. I have decided to post regular topics concerning issues of global importance, whether they be political, economic (political/economic or political economy??!?), cultural, environmental, etc.

So, I've been working on my Master's Thesis, and now am finished and it has to do with the World Capitalist System. I want to know what you guys think?

[.AWAKE.]

here is my 0.02 cents

there is a pressing reason to be rid of Capitalism. The 'get rich quick' philosophy, held by so many people who earn money within the Capitalist culture is no accident..... it is the result of the unconscious realisation that Capitalism will eventually burn itself out, taking many of its proponents with it. The fact is that Capitalism is unsustainable. Capitalism can provide just enough promise to keep the majority working within the system. However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic, and IMO it is best described as economically chaotic.

[JacksColon]

However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic

Interesting. You bring up something I touch upon in my thesis but will probably elaborate more on in subsequent articles or papers.

[Yasakira]

here is my 0.02 cents

Did you mean $0.02? Cause 0.02 cents is 2% of a penny.

[.AWAKE.]

no I wanted it to mean 2% of 1 cent ..

[heroo]

99 % of the people that use these forums are to dumb to discuess this subject.

[dom]

The attitude that many critics have on the issue of capitalism, is one that my fellow environmental studies students have on the environment.

All we can do is complain about how capitalism is broken, cry that it is unfair, etc. But until you can find a system that in practice works better than capitalism, complaining about it without trying to fix it is a waste of time.

[Jstar1]

well its obvious that capitalism is best

look around at the communist contries around you

cuba, vietnam, cambodia, china, soviet russia (now extinct), north korea

they all poor countries without anything but government oppresion and their trading is like nothing

except china, which has a capitalist economy but communist government, not sure about that one. So you can't really include china in economic terms

[heroo]

The attitude that many critics have on the issue of capitalism, is one that my fellow environmental studies students have on the environment.

All we can do is complain about how capitalism is broken, cry that it is unfair, etc. But until you can find a system that in practice works better than capitalism, complaining about it without trying to fix it is a waste of time.

i think it's good that we do complain about it, or else we will be satisfied with this system.

But i do agree with what you say, capitalism is till this day the best economical system we have.

[Yasakira]

no I wanted it to mean 2% of 1 cent ..

Trying to start a new expresssion ftl

[.AWAKE.]

before critiquing , think about it.

my point of view on the subject is so small, it can be used as an analogy such as the one i used to refer to ones(MINE) opinion on a subject like capitalism.

[Sylhana]

I do not believe there is a perfect system, nor will there ever be. As long as there is human ambition, the right to individualism, the reward for hardwork, there has to be a system to foster this, and we find it in capitalism. The byproduct of it is seemingly less desired, how there exist an ever increasing strata in the socioeconomic status.

As far as I am concerned, as long as there is enough provisions to basic human needs from whatever the economic model may be, and me being biased from a health services point of view, I'll be a happy chappy .

[Shadowman20818]

Adam Smith - An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

[non ego man]

...However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic...

In theory, there is nothing inherent in the alternatives to Capitalism that would preserve the environment. In practice, environmental protection is usually stronger in Capitalist states than vice-versa.

[dom]

...However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic...

In theory, there is nothing inherent in the alternatives to Capitalism that would preserve the environment. In practice, environmental protection is usually stronger in Capitalist states than vice-versa.

Thinking about it, the same could be said for poverty. We live in a competitive culture where only the top make a living. However, i'm sure that our poorest citizens, the ones that live off welfare, are much better off then those of Uganda.

[FX]

99 % of the people that use these forums are to dumb to discuess this subject.

and you arent? theres lots of ppl who read these forums and hardly make a post and are very educated. well not entirely since they play sro

[Shadowman20818]

99 % of the people that use these forums are to dumb to discuess this subject.

and you arent? theres lots of ppl who read these forums and hardly make a post and are very educated. well not entirely since they play sro

why does everyone have to be an asshole? just because they dont spam otl

Well said, well said.

[FX]

u quoted 2 of my posts

[DotCom]

An economic system has to be discussed in a political system context to understand it better.

In theory, Socialism>Capitalism
Put into practice Capitalism>Socialism

However there are exceptions like China

[Reise]

I don't have many problems with Capitalism, if it works then it's fine by me.

Free Market economy is what I don't like. It allows the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

[Yue_Fei]

edit: nvm

as for the communist etc,
Socialism is a good system, but not for humans because humans naturally feel the need to be 'better than others.'

[dom]

An economic system has to be discussed in a political system context to understand it better.

In theory, Socialism>Capitalism
Put into practice Capitalism>Socialism

However there are exceptions like China

Please don't confuse Socialism with Communism. They are not the same.

Canada is a socialist-capitalist country, however it is not communist.

is it me or does capitalist now mean democracy?
Isn't capitalist like extreme right wing?

as for the communist etc,
Socialism is a good system, but not for humans because humans naturally feel the need to be 'better than others.'

Please read up on wikipedia or answersl.com

[XemnasXD]

...However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic...

In theory, there is nothing inherent in the alternatives to Capitalism that would preserve the environment. In practice, environmental protection is usually stronger in Capitalist states than vice-versa.

Thinking about it, the same could be said for poverty. We live in a competitive culture where only the top make a living. However, i'm sure that our poorest citizens, the ones that live off welfare, are much better off then those of Uganda.

clearly you haven't been to some of the poorer areas in the US. Its literally like going to a third world country.


OT: Capitalism keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. Its infects the government causing corruption in politics on an almost unstoppable scale. It creates a subtle class system while keeping the population docile with the delusion that "you get out what you put in." IMO its incompatible with democracy because you cant have a Gov't thats supposed of represent the ppl while having an economy that works best when at least 10% of the population is unemployed. The gov't interferes a bit but in truth its the corporation who control laws and ideals like minimum wage just become tools to allow the ppl to think they have control over whats going on. Its basically a laissez faire economy as far as im concerned....

A better system would be a Liberal Socialist economy but in order for that to be successful on a large scale it would require massive changes in separating the gov't from the corporations.

[dom]

...However it is clear that in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic...

In theory, there is nothing inherent in the alternatives to Capitalism that would preserve the environment. In practice, environmental protection is usually stronger in Capitalist states than vice-versa.

Thinking about it, the same could be said for poverty. We live in a competitive culture where only the top make a living. However, i'm sure that our poorest citizens, the ones that live off welfare, are much better off then those of Uganda.

clearly you haven't been to some of the poorer areas in the US. Its literally like going to a third world country.

clearly you haven't been to Uganda.

[Grimjaw]

I think somewhere,something might be slightly off..

[ciddy]

in the long term Capitalism is environmentally catastrophic, and IMO it is best described as economically chaotic.

i agree with that...US is a good example

An economic system has to be discussed in a political system context to understand it better.

In theory, Socialism>Capitalism
Put into practice Capitalism>Socialism

However there are exceptions like China

china is a hybrid atm...economic wise (market and command economy)

there are many example where socialism worked
~during the Great Depression, President Franklin Roosevelt created many socialist programs that got some politcians worried it would turn the US into a communist country.
~after WWII...israel was a socialist country (zionism)
~i forgot which country (norway or sweden) has a income tax of 95% which covers almost everything: medicare, social security, food, etc.

socialism only works at small scale and corruptless government...that's exactly why the Soviet Union failed.

[---Rev---]

As Marx puts it an economy goes through 5 stages of development.

Satge 1 - being primative communism
Stage 2 - Feudalism
Stage 3 - industrialisation
Stage 4 - through the colapse of capitalism we get socialism
Stage 5 - communism

If you look at all the communist nations through out history they were all working well until their society decided that it wanted to skip a stage in this development tree. After this everything fell apart.

In practice no economic or political system works well for very long. Democracy is was described by Winston Churchill as the worst form of political rule but the best we have.

Capitalism can be described in the same way, in theory it should work out quite well, however in practice it doesnt. It is alot like living in medievil times. The big powerfull nations go about raping and pilaging the smaller weaker nations until they are so fat and wealthy that they can nolonger satisfy their own desires and the whole thing collapses.

Communism in theory does have a better chance of succes if we will ever see a true communist economy that has developed following Marxes plan is highly unlikley, however in thoery at least it should work just as well If not better than a capitalist economy. As all the resouces are controled by the state this means there isnt the waste there is in a capitilist economy and resouces go farther. This means that less raping is required and the weaker nations have room to develop.

Capitalism is the reason why we still have a third world. The UK, USA, Japan, and most of the western european countries all developed behind trade barriers inorder to protect their new industries. However now these nations hav set up trade barriers to protect thier capitalist economies from an influx of cheap goods the weaker nations cannot industrialise as they cant export good because the weatern world only wants free trade that goes one way. But they also cant sell good in their own country because these are flooded with western goods that have no taxes or tarifs placed on them because the third world countries are at the mercy of the western world due to their debts. Which have specific clauses in which mean they have to have free trade even though the people that they are trading with dont.

[[SD]Frites]

what's bad about having money ?

capitalism ftw

communism (like in rusland a few years ago) doesn't work. you don't have any motivation to work because you'll allways get the same amount of money.

[JacksColon]

Ok, now I'll chime in.

Marx and many others saw the downfall of capitalism as inevitable. Part of the dialetical logic and reasoning...thesis -> anti-thesis -> new form thesis. end result being communism.

However, Marx predicted that this would occur because of an inevitable realization of the proletariat (the workers) of their place within the system. This idea is known as class-consciousness. Workers once unaware eventually become aware, unite and start a revolution to overthrow the system that is currently in the hands of the elite...the capitalists. This would not usher in immediately a utopian, communist state, as Marx and many others that followed him - including Lenin - argued that there will have to be a period of transition. During this time, the remaining elites would be "converted". This does NOT mean exterminated or killed.

Also, what must be noted, is that according to Marx, and many scholarly Marxists that followed, this would be a workers revolution...in industrial societies. Marx, in fact, had a disdain for peasants.

My point here is that, in reality, there has NEVER been a path to Communism that is true to the ideals laid out by Marx. Both the Soviet and Chinese examples (more so with China however) are examples of peasant revolutions. So, Marx would probably scoff at these examples. North Korea is the same, as was Vietnam and even Cuba. These were not industrial, workers-led revolutions. Rather, they were revolutions often of peasants and farmers led by scholarly people (like Mao and Che and Fidel).

Further, Capitalism is great in at least one way....it's ability to adapt and undercut any attempt to challenge it. There is no pure capitalist state, including the U.S.

I believe, that the capitalist system, fueled by the perpetual need to accumulate wealth, at all costs, will lead to system failure, but indirectly. The systems that will fail are the global systems of the earth....atmosphereic systems, water systems like currents and fishery stocks, etc. Eventually, the failure of these systems will lead to economic collapse, and instead of a utopian communist state, we will be left with a state of chaos and anarchy for some time, eventually leading to more communal-based living where crops and things are once again grown locally instead of being shipped across seas and land-masses. At some point, at the cost of many lives most likely, we will once again be able to make our own salads rather than having to ship the ingredients in from places like California!

[Silver0]

what's bad about having money ?

capitalism ftw

communism (like in rusland a few years ago) doesn't work. you don't have any motivation to work because you'll allways get the same amount of money.

r u retarded motivation 2 eat maybe
we work 2 eat the other things r just comfort but in reality never needed
i wish i didnt grow up in a society like this where we care more about want then need ppl seriously dont care about life when its just about want if a society lessen the amount of things 2 want and showed how hard it be if we just hunted food then ppl would realize working a hard job or a job you hate or a job you think doesnt challenge you its better then hunting for food
i dont need a big screen tv nor a 07 lexus but in america it has become a need

a consumers ignorance