Pure Str @ 140/150Cap - Light vs. Fire

[EternalShadow]

Alright, first off, I've been lurking these forums for a good 6 months and have finally decided to make an account and attempt to contribute. Anyway, my main character is currently a Lvl 72 pure str bow/light/fire (farming with 9gap). I know the final cap is ages away etc. etc. but I just like thinking about it (minus the leveling and farming part). So I decided to conduct a small test using only light skills vs using only fire skills and I'm going to post the results for you guys (since you have helped me so much with any questions I have had, without knowing it). This is pretty long so I understand if most of you don't want to read it . Here it is:

*All tests were done with skills farmed up to Lv63 on Devil Mask Nachals
*(n)->x denotes the average (x) out of (n) times

Using only light imbue/buffs:
Antidevil damage: 10->5063
Antidevil crit damage: 5->8799
Regular imbue shot damage: 20->1359
Damage taken: 20->484

Using only fire imbue/buffs:
Antidevil damage: 10->5153
Antidevil crit damage: 5->9338
Regular imbue shot damage: 20->1429
Damage taken: 20->408

Comparisons:
Antidevil: fire is 1.78% greater than light damage
Antidevil crit: fire is 6.69% greater than light damage
Regular imbue shot damage: fire is 4.93% greater than light damage
Damage taken: light takes 18.63% more mdmg than fire

Thoughts:
Can't test without passives since they arent buffs, thus light is getting my +6% pdmg fire passive.
Crits have a difference of nearly 7%, and wouldn't you know it, fire pdmg buff is +7%. @140/150, I expect fire to deal ~28% more crit damage than light.
Also, keep in mind light has one less series than fire and could have a new skill series before final cap (though it probably wont be a +%mdmg...really wonder what it will be, if there is even going to be one).

@140/150
Light:
Mdmg buff->~+35% mdmg
Grasswalk->~+100% speed
PR buff->~+55 pr (probably off)
Passive->~+55 or ~+60 pr (probably off)

Fire:
Pdmg buff->~+14% pdmg
Mdef buff->~+1900 mdef (probably off)
Passive->~+14% pdmg

All calculations were (probably horribly) derived by me (except for the grasswalk). Server inspection going on now so I can't give my exact character specs, so I'll just say my pbal is 106% and my mbal is (I forget ) whatever pure str @ 72+50ish int is. I'm wearing a +3/4 garm set with decent %s and a 72+5 c8 61% pdmg bow. If anyone has actually managed to read this whole thing, thank you! Also, sorry I didn't get more tests for the averages, I was on GT+SPT when I did this. Anyway, that's about all I have for now.

[Sylhana]

I think it is a fair assumption that you could extrapolate your calculations to higher caps/skills. Assuming that the gradation is proportional for both skill trees, fire and lightning, you're really making the choice of that extra bit of damage, against the ability to independently speed your char up.

The calcs you made are useful for players wanting an idea now at the current cap. But, anything could happen at higher caps, so we shall wait and see

[ineedhelp]

Alright, first off, I've been lurking these forums for a good 6 months and have finally decided to make an account and attempt to contribute. Anyway, my main character is currently a Lvl 72 pure str bow/light/fire (farming with 9gap). I know the final cap is ages away etc. etc. but I just like thinking about it (minus the leveling and farming part). So I decided to conduct a small test using only light skills vs using only fire skills and I'm going to post the results for you guys (since you have helped me so much with any questions I have had, without knowing it). This is pretty long so I understand if most of you don't want to read it . Here it is:

*All tests were done with skills farmed up to Lv63 on Devil Mask Nachals
*(n)->x denotes the average (x) out of (n) times

Using only light imbue/buffs:
Antidevil damage: 10->5063
Antidevil crit damage: 5->8799
Regular imbue shot damage: 20->1359
Damage taken: 20->484

Using only fire imbue/buffs:
Antidevil damage: 10->5153
Antidevil crit damage: 5->9338
Regular imbue shot damage: 20->1429
Damage taken: 20->408

Comparisons:
Antidevil: fire is 1.78% greater than light damage
Antidevil crit: fire is 6.69% greater than light damage
Regular imbue shot damage: fire is 4.93% greater than light damage
Damage taken: light takes 18.63% more mdmg than fire

Thoughts:
Can't test without passives since they arent buffs, thus light is getting my +6% pdmg fire passive.
Crits have a difference of nearly 7%, and wouldn't you know it, fire pdmg buff is +7%. @140/150, I expect fire to deal ~28% more crit damage than light.
Also, keep in mind light has one less series than fire and could have a new skill series before final cap (though it probably wont be a +%mdmg...really wonder what it will be, if there is even going to be one).

@140/150
Light:
Mdmg buff->~+35% mdmg
Grasswalk->~+100% speed
PR buff->~+55 pr (probably off)
Passive->~+55 or ~+60 pr (probably off)

Fire:
Pdmg buff->~+14% pdmg
Mdef buff->~+1900 mdef (probably off)
Passive->~+14% pdmg

All calculations were (probably horribly) derived by me (except for the grasswalk). Server inspection going on now so I can't give my exact character specs, so I'll just say my pbal is 106% and my mbal is (I forget ) whatever pure str @ 72+50ish int is. I'm wearing a +3/4 garm set with decent %s and a 72+5 c8 61% pdmg bow. If anyone has actually managed to read this whole thing, thank you! Also, sorry I didn't get more tests for the averages, I was on GT+SPT when I did this. Anyway, that's about all I have for now.

the only thing i see is the fier having litlte more damage but thel ight having a full advantage on shadow walk all the light has to do is use a skills and run and hit i dontt hink there any chance at 150 cap a
pacheon 150 fire 150 can kill a pacheon 150 light 150 becuase of this
by the time the fire runs up to the light it will probably be dead imo

[MiKe 51-50]

Most of us wont even be here till then. But I would take lighting. You need phantom/grass walk to get to anybdy.

[EternalShadow]

@Sylhana: I compared each level in each book of the series' (gain/lvl) and then compared the gains between last lvl of book to first lvl of next book and derived the #s that way. And yea, anything can definately happen between now and final cap.

@ineedhelp: I don't really know if your bow vs. bow is accurate, considering both builds would have the same range (thus light would have to run back to attack). Fire bow would almost certainly win against light bow (not sure if this is what you were trying to say or not).

@MiKe: Not sure if I will even be here, I just like pondering the idea . I'm pretty sure that push comes to shove I'll choose light over fire (if I'm still playing).

Thanks for the input guys. I wonder what thoughts other pure strs (any class) have.

[MiKe 51-50]

Thanks for the input guys. I wonder what thoughts other pure strs (any class) have.

If anybody goes fire they will run out of money. Every hour 250k for new 100% speed drug. Plus pots then would prolly cost 5 mill a repot as well.

[alZen]

thanks for the nice post.

light is good enough. fire gives that extra edge in damage. and the firewall and fireshield and mag defence are really good for pure str.

but i play it simple and decided that i go plain weapon-light. takes my mind away from the additional sp needed to max another tree.

[EternalShadow]

@MiKe: Yea, I hadn't really thought about using speed pots. The grind for fire would definately be hell. Though I'm sure if any str does go fire they'll use speed pots for sieges/wars.

@alZen: I think I'll end up either leaving fire at 6x or 7x and deleveling it with each new cap. The sp req at 90+ is just lame... -sighs-

Finally logged on so I'll post my stats (not that they really matter):
(no buffs)
Str 347, Int 147
Pdmg 1924-2318, Pdef 675
Mdmg 1463-1752, Mdef 1103
Pbal 106%, Mbal 46%
AR 346, PR 307

Yea I know, my gear isn't the greatest, oh well.

[NuclearSilo]

IMO, if i were u, i'd choose light tree.

Comparing about dmg, fire > light, so when bow fire pvp with bow light, fire will win. But against other class, light will have better chance.

Bow without speed is not a bow. The way of fighting of a bow is to keep distance, not to stand at the same place to get hit. They made the range increase 18+6 equivalent to 24m ghost walk. That's the usefull of it. Also, with knockback, it's hard to approach this one. And if u have a good gear, plus 80+ concentration, light dmg > fire min dmg.

Well, it's up to u to choose. +34% phy buff is very good against the pure int in garment. But u'll lose to other tankers.

[jabbers]

IMO, if i were u, i'd choose light tree.

Comparing about dmg, fire > light, so when bow fire pvp with bow light, fire will win. But against other class, light will have better chance.

Bow without speed is not a bow. The way of fighting of a bow is to keep distance, not to stand at the same place to get hit. They made the range increase 18+6 equivalent to 24m ghost walk. That's the usefull of it. Also, with knockback, it's hard to approach this one. And if u have a good gear, plus 80+ concentration, light dmg > fire min dmg.

Well, it's up to u to choose. +34% phy buff is very good against the pure int in garment. But u'll lose to other tankers.

well fire/bow has fire wall , who knows how strong it will be at that level, but against say light/bow it would negate the magic damage from their light imbue, and without out the added phys +% from fire I don't know but I don't think they would be able to hit you that hard at all. I'd just wall up and let them come to me if they want to fight, alot of people overlook that skill but it will have its day soon. hit and run tactics are not for STR chars , even bow , we may use them now just because we can, but that will have it's day too

[Braka]

Thanks for the input guys. I wonder what thoughts other pure strs (any class) have.

If anybody goes fire they will run out of money. Every hour 250k for new 100% speed drug. Plus pots then would prolly cost 5 mill a repot as well.

if the game works out the way its suppose to wouldnt it be share pt with a cleric healing hp and bard healing mp with also bard speed buff and mag phy % , if this was the case a grind wouldnt cost as much as playing solo hopefully

[ineedhelp]

@ineedhelp: I don't really know if your bow vs. bow is accurate, considering both builds would have the same range (thus light would have to run back to attack). Fire bow would almost certainly win against light bow (not sure if this is what you were trying to say or not).


Thanks for the input guys. I wonder what thoughts other pure strs (any class) have.

lol did u read my post good or did u just read first sentecne i never said say fire will win LMAO read my post again i said light will win
btw light wont have to run to fire to attack its the other way around
when in pvp once u click on someone u already targetitng them one shawdow walk away u still targeting them while the fire was to run 50+m not sure how much it will be at 150 just to get near u while they run to the light light will be attacking full force and just phantom again so the fire will never reach him he dont get hit alot and fire will loose and oh yea fire means buying the drug 100% moving thing so good luck with fire at 150 cap =) but dont let this stop u from getting fire at 150 go with wat u want just remember at 150 to change to light from fire lots of money and sp so good luck with that

[EternalShadow]

lol did u read my post good or did u just read first sentecne i never said say fire will win LMAO read my post again i said light will win
btw light wont have to run to fire to attack its the other way around
when in pvp once u click on someone u already targetitng them one shawdow walk away u still targeting them while the fire was to run 50+m not sure how much it will be at 150 just to get near u while they run to the light light will be attacking full force and just phantom again so the fire will never reach him he dont get hit alot and fire will loose and oh yea fire means buying the drug 100% moving thing so good luck with fire at 150 cap =) but dont let this stop u from getting fire at 150 go with wat u want just remember at 150 to change to light from fire lots of money and sp so good luck with that

Where did I say that you said fire would win? I really don't get your logic behind light bow winning against fire bow in pvp (then again, I don't pvp much ). They would have the same range. Which leads me to believe that if the light can attack the fire, the fire can attack back. But whatever, this thread really had very little to do with bow vs. bow.

@NuclearSilo: I will probably end up using light as main. OT: Can't believe how much you know about this game (I've learned a lot from you )

@jabbers: Nice points with firewall, as for the hit and run tactics... I think that as a str bow, your greatest advantage is range.

[Azilius]

Thanks for the input guys. I wonder what thoughts other pure strs (any class) have.

If anybody goes fire they will run out of money. Every hour 250k for new 100% speed drug. Plus pots then would prolly cost 5 mill a repot as well.

Although the potting costs might go up, so will the amount of gold that gets dropped from mobs, and the item cost (Sell to NPC). In fact..I can already afford to buy the speed potions, although it is not needed (I do have light). If an 8d weapon NPC's for 1 mil ~, imagine a 12d weapon. MY pet alone picks up more than 250k gold a grind. Joymax is basically forcing you to buy a pet

[Vindicator]

I think it is a fair assumption that you could extrapolate your calculations to higher caps/skills. Assuming that the gradation is proportional for both skill trees, fire and lightning, you're really making the choice of that extra bit of damage, against the ability to independently speed your char up.

The calcs you made are useful for players wanting an idea now at the current cap. But, anything could happen at higher caps, so we shall wait and see

extrapolations are VERY dangerous. Even with a relatively strong data sample, extrapolations magnify small error into gigantic error the farther you extrpolate. It can give a ball park figure, but hardly reliable.

[ineedhelp]

Where did I say that you said fire would win?

down here and nope i wasnt trying to say that

Fire bow would almost certainly win against light bow (not sure if this is what you were trying to say or not).

really don't get your logic behind light bow winning against fire bow in pvp (then again, I don't pvp much ). They would have the same range. Which leads me to believe that if the light can attack the fire, the fire can attack back. But whatever, this thread really had very little to do with bow vs. bow.

um i explained my logic twice xD
need me to explain third time i would if you want me too


first time

the only thing i see is the fier having litlte more damage but the lght having a full advantage on shadow walk all the light has to do is use a skills and run and hit i dontt hink there any chance at 150 cap a
pacheon 150 fire 150 can kill a pacheon 150 light 150 becuase of this
by the time the fire runs up to the light it will probably be dead imo

second time

lol did u read my post good or did u just read first sentecne i never said say fire will win LMAO read my post again i said light will win
btw light wont have to run to fire to attack its the other way around
when in pvp once u click on someone u already targetitng them one shawdow walk away u still targeting them while the fire was to run 50+m not sure how much it will be at 150 just to get near u while they run to the light light will be attacking full force and just phantom again so the fire will never reach him he dont get hit alot and fire will loose and oh yea fire means buying the drug 100% moving thing so good luck with fire at 150 cap =) but dont let this stop u from getting fire at 150 go with wat u want just remember at 150 to change to light from fire lots of money and sp so good luck with that

eternal shadow need a third just ask

[EternalShadow]

@ineedhelp: My point was simple, both fire bow and light bow have the *SAME* range, fire will almost certainly be dealing more normal and crit damage than light; thus, it stands to reason that fire bow would win against a light bow in 1v1. Unless the light bow is right ontop of the fire bow, when he ghostwalks away, he will have to run back if the fire just stands there (unless ghostwalk is less meters than bow range? Doubt it). If the light bow is in range to attack the fire bow, then the fire bow is in range to attack the light bow, right?

[NuclearSilo]

Stop comparing about dmg, dmg isnt everything. Remember Gear>Build.
And in sro there arent only bow fire and bow light. .
Look at the usefulness of bow light against other class. Chaining 3 Combo knockback, no one can reach a bow light.
For fire, firewall can protect u from 2 hits and knockback, knockdown, good against all pure Str, maybe glaiver fits very good with this one. But i bet none of u know how to use it. So consider it a wasted skill =.=


Glaive -> Fire/Heuksal
Spear -> Ice/Light
Sword -> Ice/Light
Blade -> Fire/Bicheon
Bow -> Light/Pacheon

Bow is well-balanced in both power and reinforce. So why not choosing a force that has a medium dmg too?

Edit: lvl cap is 140, so there's still 20 masteries to invest in ligh for slow ass ~ +26% speed

[ineedhelp]

@ineedhelp: My point was simple, both fire bow and light bow have the *SAME* range,fire will almost certainly be dealing more normal and crit damage than light; thus, it stands to reason that fire bow would win against a light bow in 1v1. Unless the light bow is right ontop of the fire bow, when he ghostwalks away, he will have to run back if the fire just stands there (unless ghostwalk is less meters than bow range? Doubt it). If the light bow is in range to attack the fire bow, then the fire bow is in range to attack the light bow, right?

i still see u didnt get the point here goes another explaintion s:)

walk it is a important skill for bowers

at 150 if u get fire u dont have that meaning u wont be able to catch up with him
its about moving away and attacking thats ws a fire bow run towads a light and attack at the same time
for the fire to to able to hit the light the light has to be close if he shaodow walks hes far the fire cant attack but light has advatage it get an extra hit while the fire is running like a healdesss chicken
and if u still dont tunderstand let me know ill make my 4th explanaiton
maybe u still havent gotten the point of bowers its about putting your enemies in distcance from u
oh an dif u still dont understand just wait for 150 capp then lets come back to this topic if this forum still alive
and then u will realize what i mean i wish i can make a visual picture+vid wat i mean too bad i dont know how >:(

hmm okay i gi tit let me sumon it up for you the reaosn why i sai dlight will win becuase it can et an extra hit when using phantom walk thing and it if a high crit pooor fire bow T.T

[Ice_Warrior]

by L140 or 150 cap both trees will have many many more new skills to make the trees balanced, but i think fire beta for the dmg buff.

[EternalShadow]

Alright, I get what you are trying to say. Like I said before though, I am going str light bow at 100+ caps; I wasn't trying to say that I would choose fire over light, I was just saying that fire bow would probably win against light bow 1v1. Though it really comes down to what does more damage, an extra skill cast (light) or 1 to 3 hits with ~+25% power (fire). Anyway, theres no way to know for sure right now so lets stop going back and fourth about fire bow vs light bow duels. Like I said near the beginning, personally, I'm going light at 100+.

EDIT: Also, just so everyone knows: Bow has nearly the same Pdmg/Prein of a blade and nearly the same Mdmg/Mrein of a sword, its like the best of both 1h worlds. I've got the Excel spreadsheed data/graphs if anyone wants them.

[ineedhelp]

Stop comparing about dmg, dmg isnt everything. Remember Gear>Build.
And in sro there arent only bow fire and bow light. .
Look at the usefulness of bow light against other class. Chaining 3 Combo knockback, no one can reach a bow light.
For fire, firewall can protect u from 2 hits and knockback, knockdown, good against all pure Str, maybe glaiver fits very good with this one. But i bet none of u know how to use it. So consider it a wasted skill =.=


Glaive -> Fire/Heuksal
Spear -> Ice/Light
Sword -> Ice/Light
Blade -> Fire/Bicheon
Bow -> Light/Pacheon

Bow is well-balanced in both power and reinforce. So why not choosing a force that has a medium dmg too?

Edit: lvl cap is 140, so there's still 20 masteries to invest in ligh for slow ass ~ +26% speed

u explained it perfect every details
hmm intresting final cap is 140 its nice to know i was gonna ask where u got it from but **** it
and no offense eternal but can u read well wat both me and silo said beofre posting so there less confusing

[EternalShadow]

u explained it perfect every details
hmm intresting final cap is 140 its nice to know i was gonna ask where u got it from but **** it
and no offense eternal but can u read well wat both me and silo said beofre posting so there less confusing

I do, I realize the benefits of light at 100+ (why I'm choosing it). I was just going back and fourth with you over a hypothetical fire bow vs light bow duel.

[ineedhelp]

u explained it perfect every details
hmm intresting final cap is 140 its nice to know i was gonna ask where u got it from but **** it
and no offense eternal but can u read well wat both me and silo said beofre posting so there less confusing

I do, I realize the benefits of light at 100+ (why I'm choosing it). I was just going back and fourth with you over a hypothetical fire bow vs light bow duel.

oh ok im gald we understand each other

[darkmaster21]

An STR archer DEFINITELY needs Light for speed because thats what Archers are all about, taking people out fast and getting away also for support since archers imo do the best for jobbing.

[Ice_Warrior]

if u wanna take ppl out fast i wudnt go for str bow, they depend on their crits only, mostly used for tanking and strong range attking but not fast killing, 80:80 wud be a fast killer cz of high non-crit dmg. Ur pure str so u can tank, why run? i wud go fire otherwise u lose hella lot of dmg on ur crits without the fire buff and passive. But we dnt knoqw yet until the cap is out cz maybe fire tree also get a grass walk type skill.

[PinayLoveNukes]

if u wanna take ppl out fast i wudnt go for str bow, they depend on their crits only, mostly used for tanking and strong range attking but not fast killing, 80:80 wud be a fast killer cz of high non-crit dmg. Ur pure str so u can tank, why run? i wud go fire otherwise u lose hella lot of dmg on ur crits without the fire buff and passive. But we dnt knoqw yet until the cap is out cz maybe fire tree also get a grass walk type skill.

Yea.. i think so..each cold,fire might get a grasswalk..for its own

[Pham]

if u wanna take ppl out fast i wudnt go for str bow, they depend on their crits only, mostly used for tanking and strong range attking but not fast killing, 80:80 wud be a fast killer cz of high non-crit dmg. Ur pure str so u can tank, why run? i wud go fire otherwise u lose hella lot of dmg on ur crits without the fire buff and passive. But we dnt knoqw yet until the cap is out cz maybe fire tree also get a grass walk type skill.

Yea.. i think so..each cold,fire might get a grasswalk..for its own

you failed, pls, just stop phailing.

[MooMooMoo]

Anyone got res for a 10 month old topic? Oh wait its PinayLoveNukes

[Ice_Warrior]

you dont even have a high lvl chinese char.............. ass