Xbow+Cleric vs Dagger+Bard

nphillip · Post by **nphillip** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:54 pm

who would win ?

which is better in pvp ? which is better in pve ?

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:10 pm

The Xbow will win. The passive buffs from cleric will win over the speed from bard.

Also depends on the cloths. Both +3 set and a +3 weapon both. My best guess would go to Xbow imo.

nphillip · Post by **nphillip** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:17 pm

Deacon wrote:The Xbow will win. The passive buffs from cleric will win over the speed from bard.

Also depends on the cloths. Both +3 set and a +3 weapon both. My best guess would go to Xbow imo.

what if i added dagger and cleric?

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:22 pm

Then the dagger dude will prolly win. With the crits etc..

But thats just a guess ha..

Jadekiss · Post by **Jadekiss** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:00 pm

Dagger/Bard = Better PVP
XBow/Cleric = Better PVE

glavie · Post by **glavie** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:57 pm

Wouldn't it just be the person who got the first shot? Isn't that basically true with rogues and wizards. First shot = victory.

A better question would be which would do better against a glavier or something?

torinchibi · Post by **torinchibi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:16 pm

.......bard is not better at PvP.

Let's say they both have 300k gold to waste in their pocket. The Xbow buys 30 x- large hp pots, 20 x-large mp pots, 10 large pills and 1 drug of typhoon. The dagger buys whatever he wants, probably some hp, some mp, some pills and maybe a little left over for stealth detect pills.

Voila, now they both have 100% speed at level 80, the dagger has to stealth/scud to get to the xbow, but by the time he gets close enough, he's either already used 1 pot, or the xbow ran up to him and used destealth.

The dagger no stands out in the open and not knowing what to do uses scud so he can close in faster and hope for the kill. Unfortunately, the xbow already used bless spell before they started so he's still got a good 35 seconds left, so he's not too worried and starts laying down the KB, KD, and long shots.
By the time the dagger manages to get close enough for a hit he's already down on the ground. If he's lucky he has a drop of hp left, so he happens to crit the xbow, in which case the xbow either dies, or since he still has bless for another 20 seconds, he runs back a few meters, then finishes off the dagger.

Jadekiss is right, bard = PvP and Cleric = PvE.....oh wait, I guess he isn't.

Jadekiss · Post by **Jadekiss** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:24 pm

torinchibi wrote:.......bard is not better at PvP.

Let's say they both have 300k gold to waste in their pocket. The Xbow buys 30 x- large hp pots, 20 x-large mp pots, 10 large pills and 1 drug of typhoon. The dagger buys whatever he wants, probably some hp, some mp, some pills and maybe a little left over for stealth detect pills.

Voila, now they both have 100% speed at level 80, the dagger has to stealth/scud to get to the xbow, but by the time he gets close enough, he's either already used 1 pot, or the xbow ran up to him and used destealth.

The dagger no stands out in the open and not knowing what to do uses scud so he can close in faster and hope for the kill. Unfortunately, the xbow already used bless spell before they started so he's still got a good 35 seconds left, so he's not too worried and starts laying down the KB, KD, and long shots.
By the time the dagger manages to get close enough for a hit he's already down on the ground. If he's lucky he has a drop of hp left, so he happens to crit the xbow, in which case the xbow either dies, or since he still has bless for another 20 seconds, he runs back a few meters, then finishes off the dagger.

Jadekiss is right, bard = PvP and Cleric = PvE.....oh wait, I guess he isn't.

If you say it that way... than Xbow should be able to kill everyone = best build ?
I dont think so =/ well XBow has got the range Bonus true but dagger deal more dmg in short time since they can reach their enemy...
Since Rogue has the skill scud which make them a lot faster !
So they can reach the enemy faster and start with attacking + crit.
It always depends on the way how you play your char
IMO Dagger/Bard is better in PVP

glavie · Post by **glavie** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:50 pm

So am i right? The one that gets the first hit wins right.?

Your just debating which will get the first hit :roll:

If you watch the rogue pvp videos it only takes 1-2 hits to end the fight one way or the other.

Aby · Post by **Aby** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:55 pm

What kind ofRogue uses just 1 weapon.. This isn't china. Cleric obviously for the far superior self buffs, and of course offering to play around with when you get bored.

PvP dagger rogue will win vs everyone except Bow rogue & wiz, since they will both have to be out of stealth for the other to attack, and xBow obviously has a better range.

torinchibi · Post by **torinchibi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:09 pm

Jadekiss wrote:
torinchibi wrote:.......bard is not better at PvP.

Let's say they both have 300k gold to waste in their pocket. The Xbow buys 30 x- large hp pots, 20 x-large mp pots, 10 large pills and 1 drug of typhoon. The dagger buys whatever he wants, probably some hp, some mp, some pills and maybe a little left over for stealth detect pills.

Voila, now they both have 100% speed at level 80, the dagger has to stealth/scud to get to the xbow, but by the time he gets close enough, he's either already used 1 pot, or the xbow ran up to him and used destealth.

The dagger no stands out in the open and not knowing what to do uses scud so he can close in faster and hope for the kill. Unfortunately, the xbow already used bless spell before they started so he's still got a good 35 seconds left, so he's not too worried and starts laying down the KB, KD, and long shots.
By the time the dagger manages to get close enough for a hit he's already down on the ground. If he's lucky he has a drop of hp left, so he happens to crit the xbow, in which case the xbow either dies, or since he still has bless for another 20 seconds, he runs back a few meters, then finishes off the dagger.

Jadekiss is right, bard = PvP and Cleric = PvE.....oh wait, I guess he isn't.

If you say it that way... than Xbow should be able to kill everyone = best build ?
I dont think so =/ well XBow has got the range Bonus true but dagger deal more dmg in short time since they can reach their enemy...
Since Rogue has the skill scud which make them a lot faster !
So they can reach the enemy faster and start with attacking + crit.
It always depends on the way how you play your char
IMO Dagger/Bard is better in PVP

......XBow rogue CAN kill anyone, just not all the time. It all depends on how lucky you get with KD and KB. And i did mention scud, but with the highest lvl bless spell you have +800 p.def or something in that range. The dagger will be hit at least once even if it used scud, and that one shot will probably be a KD or good enough to make them use their hp pot right away. With the third hit the rogue is dead, even if it already reached the xBow, the second hit is usually KB, and it has 75% chance to KB. Unless the dagger relies on a 10% chance to stun, or 12%[5 times, but still 12%] chance to dull, which will not prevent the attack.

If you ask me I would rather rely on 50% KD and 75% KB and +800p.def than being fast enough to get there in time to die. Sure, the dagger can crit before they die, but so can the xbow, and a crit during a combo will be less useful than a crit that will most likely kill your opponent.

And cleric vs bard as a subclass in PvP is no contest, clerics have much better PvP buffs that will stay during PvP in comparison to just moving march which as I said anyone can get with a speed drug.

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:48 pm

Xbow should use Bard sub for speed and enhanced PvE

Dagger should use Cleric for enhanced Defense and PvP

Theres no point for a dagger rogue to have a bard subclass it doesn't give him in advantage in combat in anyway

Xbow benefits more from bard because with the extra speed you keep your distance..

Xbow+Cleric vs Dagger+bard

could go either way because depending on stealth. Remove stealth and the Xbow wins because theirs no way dagger would be able to get close and even if he did the cleric buffs would weaken his damage. If you reverse the subs the dagger would win hands down though....

Jadekiss · Post by **Jadekiss** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:12 pm

torinchibi wrote:
Jadekiss wrote:
torinchibi wrote:.......bard is not better at PvP.

Let's say they both have 300k gold to waste in their pocket. The Xbow buys 30 x- large hp pots, 20 x-large mp pots, 10 large pills and 1 drug of typhoon. The dagger buys whatever he wants, probably some hp, some mp, some pills and maybe a little left over for stealth detect pills.

Voila, now they both have 100% speed at level 80, the dagger has to stealth/scud to get to the xbow, but by the time he gets close enough, he's either already used 1 pot, or the xbow ran up to him and used destealth.

The dagger no stands out in the open and not knowing what to do uses scud so he can close in faster and hope for the kill. Unfortunately, the xbow already used bless spell before they started so he's still got a good 35 seconds left, so he's not too worried and starts laying down the KB, KD, and long shots.
By the time the dagger manages to get close enough for a hit he's already down on the ground. If he's lucky he has a drop of hp left, so he happens to crit the xbow, in which case the xbow either dies, or since he still has bless for another 20 seconds, he runs back a few meters, then finishes off the dagger.

Jadekiss is right, bard = PvP and Cleric = PvE.....oh wait, I guess he isn't.

If you say it that way... than Xbow should be able to kill everyone = best build ?
I dont think so =/ well XBow has got the range Bonus true but dagger deal more dmg in short time since they can reach their enemy...
Since Rogue has the skill scud which make them a lot faster !
So they can reach the enemy faster and start with attacking + crit.
It always depends on the way how you play your char
IMO Dagger/Bard is better in PVP

......XBow rogue CAN kill anyone, just not all the time. It all depends on how lucky you get with KD and KB. And i did mention scud, but with the highest lvl bless spell you have +800 p.def or something in that range. The dagger will be hit at least once even if it used scud, and that one shot will probably be a KD or good enough to make them use their hp pot right away. With the third hit the rogue is dead, even if it already reached the xBow, the second hit is usually KB, and it has 75% chance to KB. Unless the dagger relies on a 10% chance to stun, or 12%[5 times, but still 12%] chance to dull, which will not prevent the attack.

If you ask me I would rather rely on 50% KD and 75% KB and +800p.def than being fast enough to get there in time to die. Sure, the dagger can crit before they die, but so can the xbow, and a crit during a combo will be less useful than a crit that will most likely kill your opponent.

And cleric vs bard as a subclass in PvP is no contest, clerics have much better PvP buffs that will stay during PvP in comparison to just moving march which as I said anyone can get with a speed drug.

Well i told that already in the other thread... it would be nonsense continueing to argue with you !
So since you cant prove it with your own PVP vids or sth like that... there is no reason for making a Rogue(dagger)/cleric for me.
True cleric has lots of usefull skills... but IMO its useless...
And I already mentioned its MY opinion so Peace.

ZiNC · Post by **ZiNC** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:40 pm

DAGGER WINS

Daggs scud's effect last's even under stealth and Daggs have Speed passive which means daggs chance of closing up isnt so small.daggs sacrifice defence for more damage but xbow sacrifices health+defence which means they are one shot or two shot for Daggs...

NOTE:Daggs are also 3-4 shots down,but chance of Daggs closing up is also not very small.

Jadekiss · Post by **Jadekiss** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:57 pm

ZiNC wrote:DAGGER WINS

Daggs scud's effect last's even under stealth and Daggs have Speed passive which means daggs chance of closing up isnt so small.daggs sacrifice defence for more damage but xbow sacrifices health+defence which means they are one shot or two shot for Daggs...

NOTE:Daggs are also 3-4 shots down,but chance of Daggs closing up is also not very small.

1+

torinchibi · Post by **torinchibi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:33 pm

I don't have neither dagger nor xbower, and I don't have the PC to be able to make videos, but if I find a xbow vs dagger video and it shows a dagger lose you will make up excuses such as. It's just showing 1 loss, or the dagger had worse equips, etc.

Just get someone your level that knows what they are doing to PvP you, get a cleric to give them the bless spell buff around that level [if the rogue doesn't have it] and see for yourself.

kloudzen · Post by **kloudzen** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:30 pm

torinchibi wrote:I don't have neither dagger nor xbower, and I don't have the PC to be able to make videos, but if I find a xbow vs dagger video and it shows a dagger lose you will make up excuses such as. It's just showing 1 loss, or the dagger had worse equips, etc.

Just get someone your level that knows what they are doing to PvP you, get a cleric to give them the bless spell buff around that level [if the rogue doesn't have it] and see for yourself.

+1.

I thought daggers have scud which enhance their speed or something by 90% anyways...what's bard run buff going to do for PvP

have bless and multiple blesses win games...don't believe me? try bashing someone with 1 or more blesses on them. It's even harder if they're a chinese char with mana shield + bless

torinchibi · Post by **torinchibi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:33 pm

You think that's hard? Try finding 2 warrior/clerics and hitting them when they buff each other 2 different bless spell levels, screens, and skins. That's 3-4k more p def and like 6k m def. Good luck killing that.

fasd · Post by **fasd** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:17 am

glavie wrote:So am i right? The one that gets the first hit wins right.?

Your just debating which will get the first hit

If you watch the rogue pvp videos it only takes 1-2 hits to end the fight one way or the other.

Nope that's not true, but most of the times when ppl don't know how to deal with diferent situations...
Remember the rogue has full hp gauge before xbow xtreme or dagger desperate; against other nukers or rogues i don't put the skill at beggining, if they attack first i won't die, and after i knock down i got 2 choises, if he has low hp and didn't fall just hit him one more time, if he fall put xbow extreme and knock on the ground, dead target ^^.

glavie · Post by **glavie** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:45 pm

Good point Fasd, I was assuming the rogues would be all buffed at the beginning of the fight.
Good tactic it makes sense.