Nukers; Sword or Spear?

Shade · Post by **Shade** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:10 pm

Hello to all,

Which one is better for a nuker?
I know advantages and desadvantages of both swords and spears but i would like to know opinions of more experienced players...
And what about the passives, is it better for a nuker to have Heuksal's hp passive or Bicheon's blocking rate passive?
If i was going to level one of them to 60 to get level 6 passive, what would be better, Lvl 6 Bicheon's passive(+br) or Lvl 6 Heuksal's passive(+hp)?
I'm building a nuke and i'm not sure if i should go for "blocking rate" or "more hp"....

PS: What is the level 6 blocking rate passive bonus?

whY-2G · Post by **whY-2G** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:07 am

sword & shield when trainin...seeing that you always need a lil more def...and spear when your pVp...seeing that you want to kill your opp asap =D

Misaklo · Post by **Misaklo** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:50 am

other way around and your good. but only use spear for training if you can 1hit/ kill before they can hit you

Irukandji · Post by **Irukandji** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:33 am

lvl 6 blocking rate is 7% increase

superblur · Post by **superblur** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:48 pm

im a 2:1 int hybrid... and i have just recently completely abandonded the sword and shield....

sure the shield gave me more defense... but the sword did crap damage compared to the spear...

by the time the sword had killed a mob i would have probably taken 2-3 hits... (for this example ill say 50 damage each)

by the time the spear had killed the mob i had only taken one hit of about 75 damage...

ill take 75 damage and faster grinding over 100 - 150 damage and slower grinding anyday...

of course some of this is situational...

nukes hit so much harded with spears anyways... and i do put points into str so i dont need the extra defense as much as pure ints do... and i am investing into the ice tree for extra defense...

spear FTW IMO

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:57 pm

Irukandji wrote:lvl 6 blocking rate is 7% increase

Level 6 Heuksal is 1078 hp, and thats about 28% of your health at level 60 or 70.

Tokughavita · Post by **Tokughavita** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:05 pm

i say sword shield because you have blocking and higher defence, and if you find a good +3 sword, the damage isnt THAT much lower than spear

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:06 pm

It is if the Spear is +3, and past 42, you should always be using +3 at least.

Takunya · Post by **Takunya** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:20 pm

whY-2G wrote:sword & shield when trainin...seeing that you always need a lil more def...and spear when your pVp...seeing that you want to kill your opp asap =D

i would say opposite.

spear for training, sword/shield for pvp.

Stallowned · Post by **Stallowned** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:29 pm

Keep in mind, the HP passive is cumulative. You do not get 750 hp when you get level 50, and 1k when you get 60.
You get about 200 when you get the 50 passive and about 300 for the 60 passive

It is still good, but for some peole who may not know it is quite a dissapointment.

I say sword/shield all the way. As a nuker your hp is dangerously low, a single crit from a soul spear and you are dead. A well landed sss/ghost combo and you are dead anyway. On mobs if you get 3 or more you are dead. In pvp you are dead against anything if you don't kill it in two hits (assuming you are 1v1)

The only way you can even think about surviving is with a sword/shield. Not only does it count as an extra armor pieces giving you defence, but the blocking factor will completely cancel out some hits, which will save your ass many times. There are VERY few (not saying none, because I've seen acouple) pure ints that use a spear once they reach 6x. One because of the cave and how easy it is to die in there (remember block saves lives). And two because at 58 you get soul spear soul, so that +ghost = dead combo for an int. With a spear you have NO way of blocking any hits, so you're as good as dead.

I recall some poeple saying "ints need all the power they can," well what good is the power when you know that it will be useless within 10 seconds of a pvp battle -everyone going for the spear/sword users first.

It all looks good on paper, but the damage difference froma spear and sword does NOT make up for the risk which is increased 10 billion times.

RaiKiRii · Post by **RaiKiRii** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:18 pm

unless youre a hybrid nuker, i'd go sword

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:30 pm

Stallowned wrote:Keep in mind, the HP passive is cumulative. You do not get 750 hp when you get level 50, and 1k when you get 60.
You get about 200 when you get the 50 passive and about 300 for the 60 passive
It is still good, but for some peole who may not know it is quite a dissapointment.

I say sword/shield all the way. As a nuker your hp is dangerously low, a single crit from a soul spear and you are dead. A well landed sss/ghost combo and you are dead anyway. On mobs if you get 3 or more you are dead. In pvp you are dead against anything if you don't kill it in two hits (assuming you are 1v1)

The only way you can even think about surviving is with a sword/shield. Not only does it count as an extra armor pieces giving you defence, but the blocking factor will completely cancel out some hits, which will save your ass many times. There are VERY few (not saying none, because I'
ve seen acouple) pure ints that use a spear once they reach 6x. One because of the cave and how easy it is to die in there (remember block saves lives). And two because at 58 you get soul spear soul, so that +ghost = dead combo for an int. With a spear you have NO way of blocking any hits, so you're as good as dead.

I recall some poeple saying "ints need all the power they can," well what good is the power when you know that it will be useless within 10 seconds of a pvp battle -everyone going for the spear/sword users first.

It all looks good on paper, but the damage difference froma spear and sword does NOT make up for the risk which is increased 10 billion times.

You're screwed 1v1 in PvP anyway, might as well dish out some more damage, so Spear isn't too bad. In group PvP, Ints rape completely. They die before they can touch you.

Stallowned · Post by **Stallowned** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:56 pm

ShizKnight wrote:
Stallowned wrote:Keep in mind, the HP passive is cumulative. You do not get 750 hp when you get level 50, and 1k when you get 60.
You get about 200 when you get the 50 passive and about 300 for the 60 passive
It is still good, but for some peole who may not know it is quite a dissapointment.

I say sword/shield all the way. As a nuker your hp is dangerously low, a single crit from a soul spear and you are dead. A well landed sss/ghost combo and you are dead anyway. On mobs if you get 3 or more you are dead. In pvp you are dead against anything if you don't kill it in two hits (assuming you are 1v1)

The only way you can even think about surviving is with a sword/shield. Not only does it count as an extra armor pieces giving you defence, but the blocking factor will completely cancel out some hits, which will save your ass many times. There are VERY few (not saying none, because I'
ve seen acouple) pure ints that use a spear once they reach 6x. One because of the cave and how easy it is to die in there (remember block saves lives). And two because at 58 you get soul spear soul, so that +ghost = dead combo for an int. With a spear you have NO way of blocking any hits, so you're as good as dead.

I recall some poeple saying "ints need all the power they can," well what good is the power when you know that it will be useless within 10 seconds of a pvp battle -everyone going for the spear/sword users first.

It all looks good on paper, but the damage difference froma spear and sword does NOT make up for the risk which is increased 10 billion times.

You're screwed 1v1 in PvP anyway, might as well dish out some more damage, so Spear isn't too bad. In group PvP, Ints rape completely. They die before they can touch you.

I don't literally mean 1v1 as in a duel. But like one guy coming to attack you ina group battle. With a shield you might survive for 2 or 3 rounds if you block and he doesn't do some crits, meanwhile someone else can help kill him while on the other hand a spear will just stand there helplessly.

Or spear would be best if you know that your side has the advantage in numbers and or power. If you are fighting people lower level than you, go for spear so that it is more likely to 1 hit them or if people won't have a chance to get to you.

Also spear might do more damage per hit. But if you can survive long enough with a sword to do two hits, who does more damage?*rhetorical question, the obvious answer is sword*

Also with a spear you will proably die straight away to a nuker your level or higher.

When you look at everything, it really makes no sense for a pure int to use a spear.

whY-2G · Post by **whY-2G** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:00 pm

Takunya wrote:
whY-2G wrote:sword & shield when trainin...seeing that you always need a lil more def...and spear when your pVp...seeing that you want to kill your opp asap =D

i would say opposite.

spear for training, sword/shield for pvp.

i see too many spear userS dyin...esp when there packed up with monsters...esp at higher lvl monsters & wearing garmS (its a death wish =D)...they probs can take them on...with that spin move that hits all of them (dunO what its called)...but by the time you have the move out...you've probs taken alot of dmg...but its up toO you what you think...im stickin with swOrd & shield all the waY...cause i like it =D

superblur · Post by **superblur** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:10 pm

in my opinion... any int heavy build that doesnt put points into str is asking to get killed

look a Sui

look at BrownTyGeR (well im not sure if hes str ot int ive seen him use both glaive and spear)

im sure there are plenty other spear users that are kickin' ass

its all up to you

spear for heavy damage

sword for the life saving shield

RaiKiRii · Post by **RaiKiRii** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:33 pm

lol browntyger is full str :X

Stallowned · Post by **Stallowned** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:28 am

superblur wrote:in my opinion... any int heavy build that doesnt put points into str is asking to get killed

look a Sui

look at BrownTyGeR (well im not sure if hes str ot int ive seen him use both glaive and spear)

im sure there are plenty other spear users that are kickin' ass

its all up to you

spear for heavy damage

sword for the life saving shield

Int and hybrids are two very different builds.
I would definately not feel comfortable having like half of my hp in the caves without a shield.

Shade · Post by **Shade** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:16 am

Thanks for the replies guys,
I used a sword and a shield and recently switched to spear to "test"
(i have both bicheon and heuksal lvl 20)... i'm taking almost 3 times more damage, it is just insane.... altough im hitting almost 2 times harder xD
I think i'll switch back to sword and shield...
But is heuksal lvl 60 passive worth? It'll add only 1076 hp... will this make a huge difference? And what about the 7% blocking rate bonus on lvl 60 (bicheon's passive) would this help a lot?
I mean, i can use a sword and shield and have heuksal passive level 6 for more hp, no?
As Stallowned said, heuksal's passive not being accumulative is very dissapointing... u.u
Well anyway, thanks for the info... xD

superblur · Post by **superblur** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:19 pm

RaiKiRii wrote:lol browntyger is full str :X

lol thanks

*off topic*

why the hell does he run around with a spear during theif vs hunter wars?

*back on topic*

Post by **dom** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:40 pm

On my nuker I had garments + spear. Killing them before they get to you beats a relatively small block percent.

Personally, I find the extra hp from the spear passive more worth while then a couple extra blocking %. I'd say to max spear and use both depending on what you're fighting.

Like Stallowned said, once you start farming in the cave you'll need to use a sword/shield, but earlier on spear should do a better job.

shimont1990 · Post by **shimont1990** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:43 pm

spear is good, becouse from 30+ you dont even get close to the enemy with a good spear(sos+3 min), you got Ranged nukes, that kinda slam the enemy hard and it dies quickly.
even if it does hit you, just pawn he's ass with soul spear or a spear combo

If you go to dungeons thingys, get a sword+shiled, skills are no needed! you got so many ranged shots, you dont need to bother much -_-
So my suggestion, go on spear on the start, it has the greatest m-atk

and some nice p-atk!O.O
swords attack fast, but weak =s
Bottom line, go on spear from 1~50 and if you need extra defence, allways carry a good sword and shiled

Post by **dom** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:02 pm

I did fine with just a normal +3. Still 2 hit kill anything orange or lower. Also about the p attack, it's the imbue that's causing massive damage. ghost spear has a range of 2 metres, flying dragon has the range of the fire nuke. I find it more MP efficient early on to use these two skills instead of the nukes since they two hit kill. However, you could always use fire nuke + flying dragon.

kitary · Post by **kitary** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:20 pm

spear advantage , big damage
shield advantage , block , take less damage , saves pots

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