90% int hybrid S/S should use Shout or Devil cut blade?

[destructionmama]

For you experts out there:

just wondering which should a 90% mag balance Hybrid s/s use?

1. Lion shouts? (Int based)
2. Cut blade?(Phy based)

Some Questions:

a) which one will hit harder for this character?
b) Some advantage and disadvantage of each
c) Range and transfer?
d) What do you use it for? (PvP? PvE? Jobs?)
e) activation time?


any other comments will be greatly appreciated


Thanks in advance


<<EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

After long term research and trying out most combinations Here's the conclusion to what to choose for 90% hybrid:

Hybrid need both cut blade & lion shouts

why?

Cut blade is very useful in Grinding, much much lower mp consumption than a lion shout, it will save you a lot of pots when you are grinding, for hybrids, it does more damage than shout, it also have longer range than the shout, the downside is that it takes just a little longer to cast. And that half a second can mean getting hit or not getting hit by the mob. Getting hit = waste hp pots, not Getting hit = earn pots.

Lion shout on the other hand, is much quicker than cut blade, however for hybrid it does lower damage and it has a shorter range, the splash damage sometimes also draw mobs to you. But that half a second more (as mentioned above) can save you hp pots, because you won't get hit as often.

here's an example:

Character X have 2 choices (given that he only either took cut blade or shouts):

1. nuke --> cut blade ---> cut blade -->mob dies
2. nuke --> shout --> shout --> mob dies


# 1 does more damage but it takes longer to cast, which at the end you'll get hit and waste hp pots, but you'll use less mp
#2 does less damage but takes less time to cast, which at the end you'll won't get hit, but you'll waste more mp pots


BUT BUT BUT

If character X have both books

nuke --> cut blade -->shout -->mob dies

character X don't waste as much pots as using 2 shouts, and he doesn't get hit by the mob because he is not using 2 cut blade, which has a higher cast time.


now in terms of being swamped by mobs:

Its better to have lion shout because of the AOE

In terms of PVP:

Its better to use Lion shout, because you can dish out some quick damage.


Conclusion: therefore it is essential to have both cut blade and shout for a hybrid s/s nuker because the combination of the two works really well

[Waisha]

devil cut does more dmg but im using lion shout.
why?
longer range.
dmg w/o imbue.

[Xecut10ner]

devil cut does more dmg but im using lion shout.
why?
longer range.
dmg w/o imbue.

Wats the point doing Lion shout without imbue?
thats lame DMG

[Waisha]

devil cut does more dmg but im using lion shout.
why?
longer range.
dmg w/o imbue.

Wats the point doing Lion shout without imbue?
thats lame DMG

If it's enough as a finisher, why not? But i mostly skilled it for the range.

[Stallowned]

Since when was lion shout supposed to be a hard hitting skill?
It's mainly used as a finisher, or to one hit stuff well below your level.
If you are looking to do high damage you're using the wrong skill.

If it's enough to kill/finish without imbue, why waste mp on the imbue?

[JackB4u3r]

a) which one will hit harder for this character?
Since you are int based, lion shout.
b) Some advantage and disadvantage of each
Can't answer this, but lion shout is better.
c) Range and transfer?
Lion: 2m, good transfer
Cut: Don't know, no transfer
d) What do you use it for? (PvP? PvE? Jobs?)
Pve
e) activation time?
Dragging or finishing mobs

[Disconn3cted]

with 90% hybrid lion shout is better ( they will do almost the same dmg)

with 85% hybrid soul cut is better ( a lot more dmg than lion shout)

[0000000000]

85% mag balance with s/s it suk

so yeah shout i guess


i would go snake sword series, im 92% mag balance naked build and im lvl 46, im doing 1300 damage with snake sword dance level1, for about 1000 with shout 2nd book lvl 2 ..

[darklink105]

devil blade.....cause it looks cooler and WOW ther are 2 hits, 2 hits > 1 ....lol devil blade mainly cause it looks better

[tedtwilliger]

Advantages of lion shout: MUCH quicker... can save about half a second or so each kill, when killing in the hundreds of thousands this will add up to alot of hours saved.

Also has splash damage. And can be used without imbue just incase


Disadvantage: it costs alot more mp, thus costing more money, thus possible reducing the possible greatness of your gear, thus making u do less damage overall (possibly)


But in my opion, go with soul cut blade unless u have to use lion shout to stop yourself form getting attacked. I took both and am happy about it.

[Stress]

lion shout has AoE and can be used w/o imbue.
Soul cut costs way less MP. Transfer distance is pretty much the same (might be bigger on blade force)

Lion shout for pure INT and Cut blade for hybrid.

[destructionmama]

Since I screwed up some points allocation between str and int, my balance won't reach 90% mag until I am lvl 61, so I am guess I should use cut blade for the moment and later use shout when I hit 90%?


thx for all your comments very helpful, and votes, too, almost a tie there, looks like both skills can be put into good use in a matter of personal reference.



Thx

D

[Nenhunter]

i would just use both. 2 hit devil blade then shout. Might kill green mobs if u got a pretty decent weap

[dabat]

a 90% mag balance hybrid should use shock lion....but if you're like me (only reaching 90% at a high level) then soul cut blade definitely puts more damage and more worth than shock lion =P

[destructionmama]

bump

Edited and concluded after a long time post comments if it matters to you

[Dakuan]

I've been wondering about this myself. Glad to see there's a topic on it, even if some of the opinions seem to be more speculation than anything.

I've got a s/s INT hybrid and I've been using Soul Cut Blade more than Shock Lion Shout because it seems to do more damage for a lot less mana. But, I've been curious about how they actually stack up against each other, so I did some testing.

Character stats:
Lvl 38
Masteries at 34

Currently, with present gear:
Phy. Bal. 65%
Mag. Bal. 91%

Both Soul Cut Blade and Shock Lion Shout at lvl 9. with book 2, lvl 5 fire embue. I wasn't keeping track of low numbers, so I don't have averages (sorry, just didn't feel like writing that much while hunting). I just kept attacking numerous times until I was certain I had hit the high damage number consistently.

Mangyangs:
Soul Cut Blade high dmg. - 1886
Shock Lion Shout high dmg. - 1726

Blood Death Flower:
Soul Cut Blade high dmg. - 820
Shock Lion Shout high dmg. - 777

Black Robbers (same level as character):
Soul Cut Blade high dmg. - 638
Shock Lion Shout high dmg. - 634

MP consumed:
Soul Cut Blade - 82
Shock Lion Shout - 267

So, for this character, at this level, Soul Cut Blade does more damage at less than 1/3 the MP cost. With the same level mobs, it evens out more with Soul Cut Blade slightly higher. Although, I will say, the numbers did overlap a lot on the Black Robbers with the range of the attack. Sometimes Lion Shout was higher, other times it was Soul Cut.

I think that with Soul Cut Blade having both phy. and mag. dmg., the variation can be more widely spread.

Lion Shout has more range... when attacking the Blood Flowers, I stood outside of range, hit Lion Shout, the character ran up and attacked, then I hit Soul Cut Blade and the character would advance another 2 or 3 steps to attack.

Lion Shout hits up to 3 targets in front of you and the damage transfer is NOT reduced. In fact, I noticed that the damage on the secondary targets was usually higher than the one being attacked. That may just have been a weird coincidence, but it was oddly consistent. The secondary targets must be on either side of the primary to be hit, though.

Lion Shout appears to cast a little faster than Soul Cut Blade. You'd have to do video capture and count the frames to be sure, but I don't consider the difference to be very significant. Soul Cut Blade is a quick attack. Lion Shout may be quicker. For SP farming where you want to kill as fast as possible, it may add up over time, but I don't think it would be more than a few minutes over hours of grinding.

For this character, with the Black Robbers, I use the fire Nuke plus Soul Cut Blade. With my wolf along, if I hit high numbers, it's usually enough to kill them before they get to me.... Nuke/wolf attack/Soul Cut/dead creature. If not, one regular embued sword hit finishes them. It's not uber fast, but, for average grinding/questing, I figure that being able to kill an equal level monster, within the duration of one embue, is doing ok.

Embue vs. non-embue for Lion Shout... I did a bunch of these as well on the Black Robbers:
Embue high dmg. - 634
Non-embue high dmg. - 488

However, with the range being what it is, a high non-embue could be equal to or a little higher than a low embued Lion Shout, which I got as low as 483.

I would say, again, for a character like this, that for single targets, Soul Cut Blade is better. You can get 3 attacks with it, for typically more damage, for the cost of one Lion Shout. Myself, I like to hunt as efficiently as possible. There's a certain challenge in mixing skills to do just enough damage, within one embue duration, for each creature type with the minimum MP cost.

[JessicaYan]

Pure Int
PVE
Shout, later books of shout has big dmg jump, its .5 seconds faster, letting you move on to the next mob. Range won't matter as you start with a nuke, your shout will be in range. time > gold
PVP
More dmg, faster, mp efficiency is irrelavant in pvp.

Hyb, 2:1 or less
PVE
Shout, if shout can't finish, use cut ( more dmg), if cut can't finish 2 shouts.
time > gold
PVP
Cuts, Cuts can crit. Put there are many other wep skills >cut in pvp. Cuts get cut from the list of useful arsenal in pvp.

[Dakuan]

Shout, later books of shout has big dmg jump, its .5 seconds faster, letting you move on to the next mob.

That's what I've been hoping for since I keep leveling Shout. I figure it's going to be more useful later on.

My "test" is limited by it's lower level. But, I'm glad I took the time to do it, now I know for myself what the difference is like... at this level, at least.

So, I guess the answer is... get both. Cut is good for earlier levels, Shout comes into it's own later on.