Str hybrid bow Q'

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 pm

Only way to prove whos stronger is to have a lvl 80 pure str bow vs. a lvl 80 hybrid bow /w Full npc gear.

lol .. the power of 80:80 build came from the fact that he will use everything in the game and they all will make good boost to his performence ..

- 80 % balance for both str and int will give him both mag and phy def , also mag and phy attack , also HP and MP .. every blue in possible will give him good advantage ...

- he will go for all masteries ... he need all buffs : phy attack , mag attack , phy def , mag def , Ice wall , fire wall , snow shield , and all passives too .. he try to max all masteries and he make use for them all ...
say a pure int nuker want to find the most important mastery to his build .. will you say : fire to have the biggest attack in game .. or light to have the biggest buff to mag attack .. or cold to have the def he he don't have .. or say the weapon mastery to have the passive ?!
you can say : all .. fire, light, and cold .. also spear mastery .. ?!!!
you will fill your 300/300 masteries but you don't use them all .. only 2 ~ 3 skill from each tree .. that's a waste of your 300/300 .. and IMO it's so boring ... that's why I said that 80:80 bow will give you more fun ..
Pure str builds have the same problem with 300/300 .. they don't need light .. light have nothing for str but speed skills .. oh it's pain to leave your charecter without speed skills .. and it's waste to max a amstery to have one skill ..
80:80 bow build is made to make use of every passive and buff and skill in all masteries .. it is more effective in fully farmed stat .. so this build is for proffesionals and long term players ..

you give this build more time , more farming , more gold for alchemy .. but at last you can be a unique build .. in the nest replay I will try to comapre full str bow with 80:80 bow ..

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:31 am

------------------ STR BOW ------------------- 80 : 80 bow ( both full blue)
normal damge .... less ................................. more
crit damge ......... Higer ................................ less
HP .................. +18000 ............................ +12500
Tanking .......... good tanker ..................... better tanker (snow shiled)
def ................. phy only ........................... phy & mag
grinding speed ...... 1X ................................. 1.5 X
gold needed ... not so much ......................... a lot
jobbing ............. good ............................. very good
guild war .......... good .............................. very good

And you can know more if you comapre STR bow with other str builds (bladers and glaviers) ...

1) Def and HP : glavier have more HP .... blader have more Def and block .... bow have nothing

2) Attack : glavier have the best phy attack , bow have less attack , blader have the weakest attack ...

3) effects : glavier have stun & KB in early lvls , bow have stun and KB in later +70 , blader have KD & stab in early lvls

So the glavier have more HP and more attack than bower and you will have the same effects when the bower reach +70 mastery .. Can you tell me now what's the great reason for creating str bower ??

Bower is not good tanker as glavier .. so don't say we build bower as str build to tank ... you will be the biggest noob in the planet if you say that ...
Bow haven't phy attack like glavie .. your only reason to creat a bow is to crit many times more than glavier with your crit increase in bow skills ..

So what's the reason prevent people to belive that turning bow from tanker style ( that he can't do well ) to heavy damger style with decent amout of HP and both mag and phy def ... with decent amount of MP that let him be the super tanker by snow shield ?

Here is the chart to every build HP and max snow shield mode :
* Pure str glavier ( can use 20% snow shield at max ) : 20000 HP + 20% damge absorbtion
* Pure str blader & bow (can use 20% snow shield at max ) 18000 HP + 20% damge absorbtion
* Pure Int spear (can use 50% snow shield the max ) 10000 HP + 50% damge absorbtion
* Pure Int s/s (can use 50% snow shield . the max ) 8000 HP + 50% damge absorbtion
* 80:80 bow (can use 40% snow shield or more ) 12500 HP + 40 % damge absorbtion
* 1:2 hybird spear (can use 50% snow shield [may be less] ) 13500 HP + 50% (or less) damge absorbtion

And hope that this make people start to think differently about hybird builds

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:12 am

Pure STR bow can reach 20k with 100% STR on gears. I have 19800+ hp while lacking 3 STR on gears. The only difference about tanking between glaivers and archers is that 2k+ hp from heuksal passive.

From what I see, obviously you haven't got a high level character. Because, at high levels everyone will push their gears to the limit by getting 100% on blues. So don't worry about that. Also, due to competition , everyone will learn buffs that will increase their performance, even if it's a little. I don't know if it's just Sparta server, but every Pure STR character also the buff which increases Magical damage %.

With my Pure STR archer, I do 14k crits on glaivers with +5 garments and jewels. Against a 80:80 (1:2) archer, I think I can do way higher damage. Don't give me that what if I don't crit crap, coz I will eventually since I will be able to tank a hybrid's damage.

Don't forget the 60 seconds cooldown for Snow Shield. Because I will get you when it happens, I once PVPed with a L80 pure INT S/S nuker (Evgeni) with full sosun set and jewelries, not to say even his sword. He was nuking me for 10-11k everytime. I was able to tank that without help from snow shield and 1 hitted him with a crit once his snow shield was off. Even with his damage, he did not came close to kill me. If you still think you can outdamage his DPS, be my guest and prove it.

If things get ugly, I can use snow shield myself. Being Pure STR doesn't mean I can't use Snow shield. Maybe not as high, but I can still use 20-25% absorption without having problems casting skills.

elnawawi wrote:* 80:80 bow (can use 40% snow shield or more ) 12500 HP + 40 % damge absorbtion

Dream on.

e-sporter · Post by **e-sporter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:16 am

rofl at the last comment. I <3 the bit about the snow shield. The funny thing you'll probably get hit about 2 times then won't be able to attack because you have a lack of MP kthnxbye. Pure str isn't the best build for bowman.

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:37 am

He said he tanked it without Snow Shield.

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:43 am

Ell wrote:He said he tanked it without Snow Shield.

I edited my post, he meant something else.

Reminder, Hybrid means a combination of Pure STR and INT, not being both Pure STR and INT at the same time.

e-sporter · Post by **e-sporter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:29 am

Never knew that BakaFish, thanks for the information. I will be alot better off now.

I_Chai_Vang_U · Post by **I_Chai_Vang_U** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:49 am

Ell wrote:He said he tanked it without Snow Shield.

lol....yeah...and I got snow shield at 30% with 19880HP and 8.5KMP...and yeah i can tank long enough to crit kill.....and i don run out of mana....with +4 set protector....

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:49 am

I_Chai_Vang_U wrote:
Ell wrote:He said he tanked it without Snow Shield.

lol....yeah...and I got snow shield at 30% with 19880HP and 8.5KMP...and yeah i can tank long enough to crit kill.....and i don run out of mana....with +4 set protector....

If you had set of +4 garments, you don't even need to use snow shield.

Sauron · Post by **Sauron** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:03 am

IMO, stay pure str. Trust me, your gonna enjoy your crits later

HakubiNi · Post by **HakubiNi** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:06 am

Crits are the same.

At level 60 I critted 39k on mangyangs. Unfarmed.

I_Chai_Vang_U · Post by **I_Chai_Vang_U** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:18 am

BakaFish wrote:
I_Chai_Vang_U wrote:
Ell wrote:He said he tanked it without Snow Shield.

lol....yeah...and I got snow shield at 30% with 19880HP and 8.5KMP...and yeah i can tank long enough to crit kill.....and i don run out of mana....with +4 set protector....

If you had set of +4 garments, you don't even need to use snow shield.

dunno...i hate the looks of garment...armor 2 slow...protectors looks cool and best of both world..so that the way...i gonna stay....

darkmaster21 · Post by **darkmaster21** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:24 am

HakubiNi wrote:Crits are the same.

Um afraid not...

Pure STR has most crits because of more physical damage...

INT based builds (such as the 70:70) have ALOT less physical damage which means weaker crits.

HakubiNi · Post by **HakubiNi** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:27 am

darkmaster21 wrote:
HakubiNi wrote:Crits are the same.

Um afraid not...

Pure STR has most crits because of more physical damage...

INT based builds (such as the 70:70) have ALOT less physical damage which means weaker crits.

Buts Crits aren't consisted entirely on PHYSICAL damage. It has Mag damage too. Just because mag damage isn't doubled when critting, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:09 pm

With my Pure STR archer, I do 14k crits on glaivers with +5 garments and jewels. Against a 80:80 (1:2) archer, I think I can do way higher damage. Don't give me that what if I don't crit crap, coz I will eventually since I will be able to tank a hybrid's damage.

80:80 Hybirds wear protector ... you can't do enough crits to kill them before you die ...

Again .. glavier have +2000 HP and can't he can't tank all the time and go down fast even sosun glaviers can't kill 80:80 easily ( remember glaviers have more damge than archers ) .. 80:80 isn't the build you think that you can tank for 120 sec .. you are dreaming ..

If you don't belive me go and pvp 80:80 first and report the results .. search about Wind or kaws and show us how pure str role ..

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:45 pm

HakubiNi wrote:
darkmaster21 wrote:
HakubiNi wrote:Crits are the same.

Um afraid not...

Pure STR has most crits because of more physical damage...

INT based builds (such as the 70:70) have ALOT less physical damage which means weaker crits.

Buts Crits aren't consisted entirely on PHYSICAL damage. It has Mag damage too. Just because mag damage isn't doubled when critting, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Just coz you're hybrid, doesn't mean you'll have super amazing magical damage. Reminder, Liquidsmooth (STR hybrid) did not beat a Pure STR in crits.

elnawawi wrote:
With my Pure STR archer, I do 14k crits on glaivers with +5 garments and jewels. Against a 80:80 (1:2) archer, I think I can do way higher damage. Don't give me that what if I don't crit crap, coz I will eventually since I will be able to tank a hybrid's damage.

80:80 Hybirds wear protector ... you can't do enough crits to kill them before you die ...

Again .. glavier have +2000 HP and can't he can't tank all the time and go down fast even sosun glaviers can't kill 80:80 easily ( remember glaviers have more damge than archers ) .. 80:80 isn't the build you think that you can tank for 120 sec .. you are dreaming ..

If you don't belive me go and pvp 80:80 first and report the results .. search about Wind or kaws and show us how pure str role ..

1. I'm Pure STR and I wear Protectors. Who's gonna survive longer?

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_cLUfRGIGw
Even Pure STR archers do not guarantee to win glaivers.

3. With Snow Shield, Pure STR can tank anything. Since hybrids get their damage from both STR and INT. Don't you think their damage would suck against people with protectors?

sinny · Post by **sinny** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:14 am

well lolz, this is wacking..... each build has their own pros and cons alright...

i prefer the 80:80 tho, cuz it help a lot in PVE,

and about the crit... it isnt a biggy with 2k-3k dmage differnce... they both have the same chance of crit tho..
let's use some of the stuff we know even tho is it not 100% true
11k for 80:80, meaning 2 crits in a roll with the same skill =kill
14k for full str, meaning 2crits in a roll with the same skill = kill

14k crit vs 80:80 with snow shield(40%) is like around 8400 damage (snow shield absorb crit damage too right?)
11k crit vs full str (20% snow shield?) is like 8800 damage

so if full str can do 2crits in a roll, 8080 die, but if they couldn't get the crit fast in pvp and/or the 8080 do first, the full str can be in big trouble because 8080 has better DPS.

this is really depend on situation and stuff and especially because pots serve a big roll in pvp, so it is also depend on the use of pots, the chance of stun, the chance of crits, different gears, (lolz i wanna see a 8080 use armor to vs full str, might be slower but something might happen) and playing this game is meant to use the best of the best... so screw whoever said use npc gear...

fix me if i'm wrong, cuz i'm not a super pro at this game... but please to flame me xD again to me the OVERALL RATING - 80:80 is better unless any of u can give me a chart show full str has a better rating.

Magnum357x · Post by **Magnum357x** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:11 pm

elnawawi wrote:
Rofl 70:70? Dude theres 3 problems with a 70:70 build bowman

1: They die so easily its not even funny. (Because they have no shield NOR HP Increase Passive)

80% mag will give very good Mp that let him use snow shield ..
2. They don't deal enough damage to kill someone before they kill you.

sometimes they wil deal like or more than hybird INT

3. Weak CRITICALS!!!!!!

80 : 80 bow do like 11k crit on lvl 80 glavier !!!! can you tell me what's
the max crit can pure str do on glaviers ?

and here is the prove of all my words :
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=schiedam90

lol, his criticals are like only +1000 of normal damage... weak

Doctor_MOS · Post by **Doctor_MOS** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:41 pm

Magnum357x wrote:
elnawawi wrote:
Rofl 70:70? Dude theres 3 problems with a 70:70 build bowman

1: They die so easily its not even funny. (Because they have no shield NOR HP Increase Passive)

80% mag will give very good Mp that let him use snow shield ..
2. They don't deal enough damage to kill someone before they kill you.

sometimes they wil deal like or more than hybird INT

3. Weak CRITICALS!!!!!!

80 : 80 bow do like 11k crit on lvl 80 glavier !!!! can you tell me what's
the max crit can pure str do on glaviers ?

and here is the prove of all my words :
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=schiedam90

lol, his criticals are like only +1000 of normal damage... weak

ROFL you apearently don't know what damage increase you get with critial as 80:80...

please look @ youtube for kaws, see for yourself

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:46 pm

If you're supporting everything with just the video of UnDutchable/KaWs, I suggest you to STFU because you don't know what are you talking about coz you haven't been a high level. Don't be a groupie.

kumori · Post by **kumori** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:56 pm

What i rly wanna see is a fight between full str and 80:80 with near or same equips. anyone got a video link to a battle like that =?

Doctor_MOS · Post by **Doctor_MOS** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:07 pm

BakaFish wrote:If you're supporting everything with just the video of UnDutchable/KaWs, I suggest you to STFU because you don't know what are you talking about coz you haven't been a high level. Don't be a groupie.

so tell me how much vid's you are refering too that pure str is bad *ss? YOUR VID I QUESS??

i refered to kaws his vid, becease he can see with his own eyes that the differnce ISN'T 1k...

*edit* there was another 80:80 vid, but i can't find the link anymore

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:19 pm

Doctor_MOS wrote:
BakaFish wrote:If you're supporting everything with just the video of UnDutchable/KaWs, I suggest you to STFU because you don't know what are you talking about coz you haven't been a high level. Don't be a groupie.
so tell me how much vid's you are refering too that pure str is bad *ss? YOUR VID I QUESS??

i refered to kaws his vid, becease he can see with his own eyes that the differnce ISN'T 1k...

*edit* there was another 80:80 vid, but i can't find the link anymore

Obviously you did not get what I said. I meant EXPERIENCE IN THE GAME for god's sakes. Not just in videos.

Doctor_MOS · Post by **Doctor_MOS** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:26 pm

BakaFish wrote:
Doctor_MOS wrote:
BakaFish wrote:If you're supporting everything with just the video of UnDutchable/KaWs, I suggest you to STFU because you don't know what are you talking about coz you haven't been a high level. Don't be a groupie.
so tell me how much vid's you are refering too that pure str is bad *ss? YOUR VID I QUESS??

i refered to kaws his vid, becease he can see with his own eyes that the differnce ISN'T 1k...

*edit* there was another 80:80 vid, but i can't find the link anymore

Obviously you did not get what I said. I meant EXPERIENCE IN THE GAME for god's sakes. Not just in videos.

[b]whats in ur eyes 'experience' ?? being lv 80 and critting 14k?
(you don't have any experience in a 80:80 build right?)

I said that the critical increase of an 80:80 build WOULDN'T BE just 1k...
do i have to be lv 80 to prove that?

*lol*b]

*EDIT* BTW bakafish, i just opend the damage contest, and ur getting 20K SHORT on the damage leader now, since you said that ur just 3 str short on your gear, where you're gonna get that 20k damage from? *correct me if im somewhere wrong on*

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:05 pm

80:80 VS pure str .. both lvl 48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K888BgiyZo&mode=related&search=

lvl 69 80:80 killed ISY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQnJAwOXd8

Hybird bow vs sosun +7 glavier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNQRIPiwZlc

And lol ... hybird bow VS pure str bow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWLpS2-F6dI&mode=related&search=

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:19 pm

Oh ..
LiquidSmooth is a str hybird not 80 : 80 hybird ... But he isn't pure str ..
and he kill pure str easily ..

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:21 pm

Everyone knows that D2A either has a +11 sosun bow with 100% or cheated that damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKDkdTawiU4
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/xanovaria/d2alls.jpg

See how D2A's buffs are hidden in video and while it appears in the screenshot for Highest damage contest.

Everything you said up till now was either based on the KaWs video or your assumptions. Which means that you have not enough experience in this game, which makes your arguments baseless therefore wrong.

For eg.

elnawawi wrote:Here is the chart to every build HP and max snow shield mode :
* Pure str glavier ( can use 20% snow shield at max ) : 20000 HP + 20% damge absorbtion
* Pure str blader & bow (can use 20% snow shield at max ) 18000 HP + 20% damge absorbtion
* Pure Int spear (can use 50% snow shield the max ) 10000 HP + 50% damge absorbtion
* Pure Int s/s (can use 50% snow shield . the max ) 8000 HP + 50% damge absorbtion
* 80:80 bow (can use 40% snow shield or more ) 12500 HP + 40 % damge absorbtion
* 1:2 hybird spear (can use 50% snow shield [may be less] ) 13500 HP + 50% (or less) damge absorbtion

All those "data" that you provided was false.
A pure STR archer can reach at least 19k while Lv80 glaiver could easily get 21k hp, if you would add 2079hp (Heuksal passive) to a pure STR archer's hp) and nevertheless 14k for a 70:70 hybrid archer.

40% absorption for hybrid archers?
I don't think so, even lv80 pure int has to be careful with their mp if they were to use >40%.

Here's another video I found for Pure STR archer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT9hyWlvwx0

Personally, I would like to know more about 70:70 archers, but everything you posted so far are facts which are mere assumptions. I would rather hear more from KaWs and tomiotar on this matter. Convince me with more proofs other than this.

bakafish · Post by **bakafish** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:27 pm

DarkJackal wrote:Basically, its Pure str and hybrid crit around the same(although str is hitting more here~ :d), although the hybrids dmg overall shoudl be a little higher(higher non crits) but they have less hp, it balances out. But I kinda have a hard time believing you "owned" someone with sun garments and sun bow +7 who is a pure str..

DarkJackal wrote:I only just saw that video, there was no owning in that though lol..

The only thing that decided that was hwo didn't get knocked back in time to get a couple crits >.>.

Don't get me started on Liquidsmooth.

EDIT: Heck, Liquidsmooth isn't even a 70:70 hybrid, why bring him in?

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:58 pm

lol man .. I didn't say that this HP is the max HP every charecter can reach ...

I mean the average HP with the max snow shield ..
I you say pure str bow is 20 k HP you should say 80:80 bow with 14.5 K HP .. we all know that ..

Now about 40% snow shield ..
you forget something really important .. it's hybird charecter not pure int ... pure int have big problem with str attacks that do big damge on int build ... but with 80% phy balance 40% of str attacks will not reduce MP that amount you think .. and remember that pure int use the biggest amount of MP ever in game with nukes ... so even MP is longer they finish it like crazy ... don't forget that ....
80:80 MP is already longer than his HP .. so the hit make your MP empty with on;y 40% of it will kill you without that 40% absorbtion ..

And yes .. I don't have enough exp. in this game ... but I have enough background and mind to think correctly ... you don't need to go in space ship to prove the shape of the earth .. you can prove that by some math methods in your office .. and np ... it's a discussion , If you see that i'm wrong just tell me the right thing .. and we all will make profit of this discussion ..

elnawawi · Post by **elnawawi** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:20 pm

And to make sure that I'm not a big noob and have some dreams about the builds I went to discuss that with the best player in my server ...
his name is "BigBoss" he is a glavier pure str and he was the second man to reach lvl 80 after a pure int spear called "_Foxy_" .. our BigBoss no one owned him before in the server .. he play with 72+5 glavie and even +9 spear +5 full gear can't beat him .. (no sun in our server) ..

I asked him : why no one can win you in this server ?
he : because there is no good build here ..
me : but _ACID 1:5 INT s/s can win you ..
he : acid is my friend , we are the same country .. but even hybird s/s can't win ..
me : why ?
he : hybird s/s with 11 k HP is a noob build .. he don't deal such big damge and haven't enough HP ..
me : but he is the best unique hunter id server ...
he : yes , he can take yarakan kill from any one but can't stand in pvp ...
me : so you see that hybird spear is better ?
he : yes , hybird spear with 13 k HP is very good , he can kill me ..
me : And what about hybird Bow ?
he : you mean 1:5 hybird ? I win Gangsta ( 30 - 5 ) he is 1:5 bow ..
me : no , I mean 80:80 phy:mag balance
he : oh , that's great build with 14.5 k HP , yeah he can win me too ... I will tell you .. In pvp :
--> 1) 80 : 80 bow
--> 2) hybird spear
--> 3) glavier
me : I expected that before ...
he : ok , I should go to sleep now .. bb

And this was the end of conversation .. you can go to hercules server and search about BigBoss and his guild " Dark_Born" under the union of Fox_River ..