Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[Atsuten]

writing in big red letters doesn't make your post anymore useful

+1

the warlock discussion has been going no where and the only thing i hear ppl say is "Its awesome" but no ones said why its awesome...

+2

I understand the argument about a cleric being more useful in party, but I have two counters to that argument:

1- Rogue is a str build. Your heal probably will not keep up with the warriors hp loss and I can't believe you are filling out the entire rogue AND cleric skill trees

2- How many good parties have you been in? I started Euro with a perma-party, but from the ppl we have asked to join us, maybe 1 in 10 can actually do their job, play to their strengths, and support the group.

[glavie]

1- Rogue is a str build. Your heal probably will not keep up with the warriors hp loss and I can't believe you are filling out the entire rogue AND cleric skill trees

I have 0 ingame experience with euro skills. So please spell it all out.

Questions:

1. Why couldn't a rogue heal as well as a int cleric?

2. Am I correct in that the best build for grinding solo is with bard for the speed increase?

3. Best for solo pvp is cleric?
or maybe warloc?

4. No sub is needed if you are in a good party? Or is it completely useless .

[Vandall]

1- Rogue is a str build. Your heal probably will not keep up with the warriors hp loss and I can't believe you are filling out the entire rogue AND cleric skill trees

I have 0 ingame experience with euro skills. So please spell it all out.

Questions:

1. Why couldn't a rogue heal as well as a int cleric?

2. Am I correct in that the best build for grinding solo is with bard for the speed increase?

3. Best for solo pvp is cleric?
or maybe warloc?

4. No sub is needed if you are in a good party? Or is it completely useless .

1. i agree w/ u
2. dont believe so; bards dont have many 'attacks'. only addvantage i can see from soloing w/ a bard is the speed increase and the buffs. (which i believe wont make a very good monster hunting build)
3. um, im not sure tbh. i guess rogue, but u cant really tell at this point...
4. sub mastery will be VERY usefull to the party; lets say the cleric goes down, and the warrior (or wizard or whoever doesnt really matter) has a cleric as sub. he resses the cleric, party grinding continuesd w/o any difficulties .

[DeShin]

I have 0 ingame experience with euro skills. So please spell it all out.

Questions:

1. Why couldn't a rogue heal as well as a int cleric?

2. Am I correct in that the best build for grinding solo is with bard for the speed increase?

3. Best for solo pvp is cleric?
or maybe warloc?

4. No sub is needed if you are in a good party? Or is it completely useless .

1. All characters of euro race are meant to be party, that's why there's the damage dealer w/o good def and hp and there's tanker or healer with average damage and good def So you expect damage dealer to do huge damage but at the same time dying chances is high, which again very hard to solo giant, to solo party mob although you have huge damage output.

Why rogue needed to be heal when they can attack their enemy at the lightning speed and xbow from far. If rogue can have the ability to heal by the default, then that's won't be the essence of playing euro.

2. Speed makes the different in grinding purposes, I don't really think that bard will be the ultimate grinding character due to their damage is weaker than wizies.

3. If it's solo PvP in terms of time and 15 secs pot war, I will say 1 handed sword/shield. In terms of "fast" PvP, I will say wizies.

4. The euro skill system let us to have two skilltrees to be max, so you can expect to have two choices of playing an euro character.

[Mocha*]

I am a Dagger rogue myself with Cleric as sub. I get into a lot of parties because-- well, I am usually the party leader.

In parties, if there were no clerics at that moment, I would be the cleric healing my party members. I'm usually with a bard friend, so if necessary, he would heal my mp and I would spam Group Healing/Healing Division/Healing Cycle on my party members, and I did pretty good keeping them alive.
Sometimes I think that I would be a better healer if I have a bard that heals my MP, because I'm full STR and have almost 3k HP, which is probably 3 times the HP as a full INT. I could survive better than a full INT Cleric. Clerics do die at times because of aggro mobs/crits, and I was always there to res them and be the temp cleric while ressing. I have never died or let anyone died (Unless they die in 1 hit) while supporting as a Cleric. If I see the party was getting mobbed, I would cast Bless Spell on them to keep them alive.

When solo, I have no problem soloing even as a dagger rogue and I ALWAYS have DD on and I don't die unless I get mobbed by 2 or more party monsters. My auto pot is at 55% when I solo. I usually cast Bless Spell and Healing Cycle on myself and start soloing the giant/party mob. If I had to, I would cast another Healing Cycle in between and kill the giant/party mob while using only 1 or none HP pots. I find Healing Cycle/Res/ and every healing skills I have very very useful in solo or in parties. I don't have Recovery Division yet but I'm looking forward to getting it, then I will be unstoppable >:D.

all just my opinion/personal experience.

[DeShin]

If you really want to be a dual weapon character, then you should go this way, having both STR char or INT together, don't get that one is STR-based, and the other one is INT-based, it will like not balance out. But nevertheless you have a nice structure of yourself as euro character there, that's good.

[5581]

I am a Dagger rogue myself with Cleric as sub. I get into a lot of parties because-- well, I am usually the party leader.

In parties, if there were no clerics at that moment, I would be the cleric healing my party members. I'm usually with a bard friend, so if necessary, he would heal my mp and I would spam Group Healing/Healing Division/Healing Cycle on my party members, and I did pretty good keeping them alive.
Sometimes I think that I would be a better healer if I have a bard that heals my MP, because I'm full STR and have almost 3k HP, which is probably 3 times the HP as a full INT. I could survive better than a full INT Cleric. Clerics do die at times because of aggro mobs/crits, and I was always there to res them and be the temp cleric while ressing. I have never died or let anyone died (Unless they die in 1 hit) while supporting as a Cleric. If I see the party was getting mobbed, I would cast Bless Spell on them to keep them alive.

When solo, I have no problem soloing even as a dagger rogue and I ALWAYS have DD on and I don't die unless I get mobbed by 2 or more party monsters. My auto pot is at 55% when I solo. I usually cast Bless Spell and Healing Cycle on myself and start soloing the giant/party mob. If I had to, I would cast another Healing Cycle in between and kill the giant/party mob while using only 1 or none HP pots. I find Healing Cycle/Res/ and every healing skills I have very very useful in solo or in parties. I don't have Recovery Division yet but I'm looking forward to getting it, then I will be unstoppable >:D.

all just my opinion/personal experience.

totally agree, now i am lv50 got 5k hp and recovery division, nice to kill anything.if you want speed, just buy speed potion, or ask your friend to buff you the speed, it can stand long enough to go to your traning place,

[glavie]

Sorry for the confusion on 1 of my questions. My number 2 question is what would be best for 1vs1 pvp cleric sub or bard sub or warlock sub?
And please tell me Why it would be better.

Here is a situation. You are a theif there is 1 hunter and 1 trader. You teleport across a ferry while following them. That would make you loose any buffs if you had a cleric or bard in your party right? Or lets just say you are out of range of your party. So which would be better?

[yanmel]

bard is the best for rogue!!!

first you got the speed skill...

but the main skill is "noise"!!!
all regular and regular party mobs are not attacking me!!!
i can fight without worrieng of getting killed...

i can fight without worrieng and hurring!

unteel you cast the cleric skill it takes time.. and then to swich.. and to putt the "xbow extreem" skill.. so all of the cleric skills are allready off...

for solo play bard is the best subclass!!!

i love it!!

[Shinobi]

the best sub class is none so you can go 0 gap and you can lvl faster.

[pequenoleao]

So... i´m new here... actually i got a pure int wiz/bard and a pure str 2H no sub.

I´m starting a Rogue ´cause I really love the crit effect !

I read a lot and i´m asking... what about a Rogue with Cleric Sub and get the bard mastery just to Moving March, Noise and the first level of Mana Cycle?

A little SP farming just be enough! Or there is a downside that i´m not considering???

[Vandall]

So... i´m new here... actually i got a pure int wiz/bard and a pure str 2H no sub.

I´m starting a Rogue ´cause I really love the crit effect !

I read a lot and i´m asking... what about a Rogue with Cleric Sub and get the bard mastery just to Moving March, Noise and the first level of Mana Cycle?

A little SP farming just be enough! Or there is a downside that i´m not considering???

the mastery limit for euro is very different than the chinese; for every lvl u get u have 2 more mastery lvls (eg. lvl 10 cleric would have 20 mastery lvl limit) that means you can not keep both subs up.

@yanmel: i dont agree with you; i dont think its worth wasting my hard earned sp and mastery lvls just to get 2 skills that wont benifit me to the fullest extent. if i dont want mobs to attack me i can use stealth (yes i know once u use a skill it cancels, im saying when u going somewhere and u dont wanna get attacked by mobs.) and if u want (temporary) speed just use scud. (it is a life saver tbh).

and if u actually take the time to practice u will be able to switch and cast the necessary cleric buffs/heals within seconds, this will def. come as a great aid in; pvp, jobbing, when grinding solo etc.

[Philip]

I Vote PURE ROGUE!!!

Because: You do not need the other classes!

[5581]

bard is the best for rogue!!!

first you got the speed skill...

Totally not agree, cleric is the best.
first you can use speed potion to replace your skill, or when you need to run fast use scud.

but the main skill is "noise"!!!
all regular and regular party mobs are not attacking me!!!
i can fight without worrieng of getting killed...

i can fight without worrieng and hurring!

second the main noise is totally no use when you see party mobs and giant, if you want to avoid normal monster or giant or party mobs to attack you, the best is use stealth, just remember to up your quick step.

unteel you cast the cleric skill it takes time.. and then to swich.. and to putt the "xbow extreem" skill.. so all of the cleric skills are allready off...
for solo play bard is the best subclass!!!
i love it!!

the cleric skill take times but it give you hp cycling heal, thinking of your hp is regenerating, and what makes you so confirm that cleric skill will off when you use back bow skill?

[Mistur_SRO]

Personally I would go with the Cleric, because their buffs are useful when it comes to PVP.

On the other hand, many of the bard supporters only favor the speed buff bard gives.... you can buy speed potions from NPCs in China. So essentially the whole bard tree can be replaced with cash.

Cleric all the way.

[Mocha*]

unteel you cast the cleric skill it takes time.. and then to swich.. and to putt the "xbow extreem" skill.. so all of the cleric skills are allready off...
for solo play bard is the best subclass!!!
i love it!!

Learn to switch weapons faster.

[XemnasXD]

I completed the ENTIRE subclass section in my rogue Guide so check it out. It also explains my viewpoint on which is the best sub to choose as i hav enot yet voted in this thread...ironic since i started it

[Vindicator]

How many poeple here are ACTUALLY clerics? My guess is none or few. Here is what is wrong with a cleric.

Your pure str, so you have very little mana. Once u buff up your party, youve used all your mana already.
Now, since you call yourself a "cleric" people are gona expect a cleric. You have to choose between a cleric and a rouge, obviously as pure str rouge would be more beneficial, but for shits n giggles let walk through your cleric experience:

You join the party and eveyone loves u cuz your a cleric, too bad they cant see your pure str. You buff up everyone and go on your merry way grinding, they do nicely with your buffs. A heal here and a heal there, then a party mobs spawns and suddenly your party needs some good healing. You start to spam heal, maybe throw up a shield buff. little while later you guys are lieing in the grass looking up at the sky and everyone is cursing you out because you, "the cleric" dont have enough mana to even come close to spaming heals. I knew a pure str cleric, i say i KNEW because he deleted his char because he couldnt keep anyone alive.

What people fail to realise for some odd reason, is cleric buffs WILL NOT STAY UP when you change your weapon. Dont belive me? go find a cleric.

So have fun with your pure str cleric, make sure u got 500mp scrolls and XL mp pots always and pray to god your party never needs a real cleric.

I once though cleric would be good too...but it was terrible cuz i was reduced to a pure str cleric on the sidelines or a pure str rouge with no subclass to help me. (switching to cleric to heal is helpful, but dont think your gona be using rouge skills, swap and heal then swap back all the time and have enough mana to do anything. If my rouge still had lvl 55 cleric i would make a video to prove this all, but i switched to bard a while ago because moving march and noise dont cancel when you change weapons.

[Mocha*]

How many poeple here are ACTUALLY clerics? My guess is none or few. Here is what is wrong with a cleric.
Yes I'm a Rogue with cleric as sub class. I'm sure many people are.

Your pure str, so you have very little mana. Once u buff up your party, youve used all your mana already.
Now, since you call yourself a "cleric" people are gona expect a cleric. You have to choose between a cleric and a rouge, obviously as pure str rouge would be more beneficial, but for shits n giggles let walk through your cleric experience:
Yes we do have little mana. Yes we cannot spam heal due to low mana pool.

You join the party and eveyone loves u cuz your a cleric, too bad they cant see your pure str. You buff up everyone and go on your merry way grinding, they do nicely with your buffs. A heal here and a heal there, then a party mobs spawns and suddenly your party needs some good healing. You start to spam heal, maybe throw up a shield buff. little while later you guys are lieing in the grass looking up at the sky and everyone is cursing you out because you, "the cleric" dont have enough mana to even come close to spaming heals. I knew a pure str cleric, i say i KNEW because he deleted his char because he couldnt keep anyone alive.
BUT we don't join the party as a cleric. We join party as a ROGUE. They don't expect you to do a cleric's job. Cleric is your sub, not main. Therefore you should not buff (or even spend SP's to get any buffs) anyone or be the main cleric in the party, because that's not your job. Your job is a rogue. IF your main cleric goes back to town to repot or something, then maybe you can be a cleric for the party temporary. Yes I have done this many times, I have yet to kill anyone. With a bard in your party, you would never run out of MP to heal anyone.

What people fail to realise for some odd reason, is cleric buffs WILL NOT STAY UP when you change your weapon. Dont belive me? go find a cleric.
Yes all the STR/INT buffs disappear after you switch weapon, therefore you should and ARE not the main cleric in the party. You are a ROGUE. IMO you shouldn't even waste SP on buffs. You are a ROGUE, remember, ROGUE.

So have fun with your pure str cleric, make sure u got 500mp scrolls and XL mp pots always and pray to god your party never needs a real cleric.

Opinions in bold.

[XemnasXD]

How many poeple here are ACTUALLY clerics? My guess is none or few. Here is what is wrong with a cleric.

Your pure str, so you have very little mana. Once u buff up your party, youve used all your mana already.
Now, since you call yourself a "cleric" people are gona expect a cleric. You have to choose between a cleric and a rouge, obviously as pure str rouge would be more beneficial, but for shits n giggles let walk through your cleric experience:

You join the party and eveyone loves u cuz your a cleric, too bad they cant see your pure str. You buff up everyone and go on your merry way grinding, they do nicely with your buffs. A heal here and a heal there, then a party mobs spawns and suddenly your party needs some good healing. You start to spam heal, maybe throw up a shield buff. little while later you guys are lieing in the grass looking up at the sky and everyone is cursing you out because you, "the cleric" dont have enough mana to even come close to spaming heals. I knew a pure str cleric, i say i KNEW because he deleted his char because he couldnt keep anyone alive.

What people fail to realise for some odd reason, is cleric buffs WILL NOT STAY UP when you change your weapon. Dont belive me? go find a cleric.

So have fun with your pure str cleric, make sure u got 500mp scrolls and XL mp pots always and pray to god your party never needs a real cleric.

I once though cleric would be good too...but it was terrible cuz i was reduced to a pure str cleric on the sidelines or a pure str rouge with no subclass to help me. (switching to cleric to heal is helpful, but dont think your gona be using rouge skills, swap and heal then swap back all the time and have enough mana to do anything. If my rouge still had lvl 55 cleric i would make a video to prove this all, but i switched to bard a while ago because moving march and noise dont cancel when you change weapons.

your getting annoying.....there are more cleric skillz that you can cast on yourself and will not go away than there are skillz for the bard class.....bless alone makes it amazing you don't choose cleric for the offensive buffs you choose it for the defensive ones. And just for your information i have a friend who subs cleric and is a rogue im not sure if he's hybrid but i know that he can stand in for a cleric if we ever need one badly. Your to full of your own opinions with nothing to back it up but an aggressive pretentious personality.

[SoBlu]

Warrior/Rogue is a good combo and probably the best, unless you go a Int class for support skills.

Warrior Dual axe works very well, they almost balance eachother out. Since Rogue lacks def, you just switch back and forth.


Stealth - dagger desperate - Dual Axe - Def - Stun - Attack - Back to Rogue.

must i give all the secrets away.


+ dual axe has high resist, rogue gives poison and poison resist. Its a match made in heaven.

Or just go solo and get xbow and dagger skills (Works just as good).

[Spleenage]

Its Just... Just.. So impossible to chose
Cleric can save ur live but so does bard
Cleric - heal
Bard - Run away
Still i think that Cleric is best..
People complaining about speed
Think you got CLERIC U CAN WEAR ROBE! xD

U can wear Robe with Bard too

BTW: Rogue+Bard = Im already lvl 62 and i can grind at caves with Noise and move very fast with my 70% speed increase, so..Rogue+Bard 4Ever.

[XemnasXD]

Its Just... Just.. So impossible to chose
Cleric can save ur live but so does bard
Cleric - heal
Bard - Run away
Still i think that Cleric is best..
People complaining about speed
Think you got CLERIC U CAN WEAR ROBE! xD

U can wear Robe with Bard too

BTW: Rogue+Bard = Im already lvl 62 and i can grind at caves with Noise and move very fast with my 70% speed increase, so..Rogue+Bard 4Ever.

But noise won't stop party or champions or giants.....if you need to escape that badly i'd use scud which last long enough to get you out of a tight situation....the defense bless offers really helps out dagger rogues....

While eventually i think you should max dagger and xbow i think Bard is more valuable to Xbow players and Cleric is more valuable to Dagger players...the problem comes at when you max the WHOLE rogue tree at which point i'd say Cleric-Warlock are you best choices

[Spleenage]

Its Just... Just.. So impossible to chose
Cleric can save ur live but so does bard
Cleric - heal
Bard - Run away
Still i think that Cleric is best..
People complaining about speed
Think you got CLERIC U CAN WEAR ROBE! xD

U can wear Robe with Bard too

BTW: Rogue+Bard = Im already lvl 62 and i can grind at caves with Noise and move very fast with my 70% speed increase, so..Rogue+Bard 4Ever.

But noise won't stop party or champions or giants.....if you need to escape that badly i'd use scud which last long enough to get you out of a tight situation....the defense bless offers really helps out dagger rogues....

While eventually i think you should max dagger and xbow i think Bard is more valuable to Xbow players and Cleric is more valuable to Dagger players...the problem comes at when you max the WHOLE rogue tree at which point i'd say Cleric-Warlock are you best choices

Yeah thats the point, but i can escape from giants and champions, is not difficult. I grind (solo) on takla or caves, and no problems for now.

[RMP]

Its Just... Just.. So impossible to chose
Cleric can save ur live but so does bard
Cleric - heal
Bard - Run away
Still i think that Cleric is best..
People complaining about speed
Think you got CLERIC U CAN WEAR ROBE! xD

U can wear Robe with Bard too

BTW: Rogue+Bard = Im already lvl 62 and i can grind at caves with Noise and move very fast with my 70% speed increase, so..Rogue+Bard 4Ever.

But noise won't stop party or champions or giants.....

Only Champs & Giants are impervious to noise, general & general party mobs don't attack you if you are using noise, the exceptions are wen you are in a exp share party, if you attack some mob, the mobs near can turn agro on you. I Remark this: general mobs, party or not are affected by noise, only Champs, Giants and uniques are impervious.

Salu2.

[Raiden]

I agree with the fact that Rouges needs the Maximum speed to destroy their enemies quicker. Facing Chinese characters is another thing, PvP, Job Wars, Guild Wars all are applied in this situation.

1. European character's pot delay hurts ALOT
a. Which means, even if you have a Cleric Sub-Class it will not help much with many reasons which supports this.

2. Pot Delay/Speed
a. It's bad enough that pot delay is at 15 seconds but rouges barely have the speed compared to Chinese Characters that obtained the Light Mastery. But with Bard as Sub-Class, speed rises, help with other skills, passives, and items, Rouge's speed increases. Which means a faster kill.

There are so many other reasons, but I can't seem to think of anymore. But the faster a Rouge kills, the less he needs to focus on maintaining his HP.

[XemnasXD]

I agree with the fact that Rouges needs the Maximum speed to destroy their enemies quicker. Facing Chinese characters is another thing, PvP, Job Wars, Guild Wars all are applied in this situation.

1. European character's pot delay hurts ALOT
a. Which means, even if you have a Cleric Sub-Class it will not help much with many reasons which supports this.

2. Pot Delay/Speed
a. It's bad enough that pot delay is at 15 seconds but rouges barely have the speed compared to Chinese Characters that obtained the Light Mastery. But with Bard as Sub-Class, speed rises, help with other skills, passives, and items, Rouge's speed increases. Which means a faster kill.

There are so many other reasons, but I can't seem to think of anymore. But the faster a Rouge kills, the less he needs to focus on maintaining his HP.

Moving speed doesn't equal killing speed -_-...in PvE yeah if you move faster you probably kill more mobs but in terms of PvP moving faster won't stop a warlock or cleric from stunning you if your within there range...Besides you could literally not move at all and just snipe the shit out of ppl if you've got a good enough Xbow.....the only problem i encounter in pvp when im DD and get 1-2 hits by mizards or if i get stunned and then im dead. With the cleric bless it'll lower the damage dagger rouges take by alot and with warlock you stun and debuff to the point where you'll be 1 hitting lvl 70's (in your 40's)if you get your debuffs high enough

The stronger a rogues defenses are the less he has to worry that if he stops killing he's dead

[Caligo]

I have a question about the Bless-spell.
The buff stays for 45 seconds. But what is the cooldown?
45 seconds is a bit low, it would let me have to buff myself every 5 mobs...

[You_Dead_Yet]

Ok i'm making a rogue with warlock as sub and i'm wondering a few things.

I know first 2 lines of skills in warlock as useless as they make mag damage.
The third one have the useful buff

But whats about the 4th and 5? This "Bloody Trap" skill, does the damage dealt from the trap is based on magical damage? Which means pure str would give crap damage? Anyone tried?

In 6th line, Daze and Fog Sight would be quite useful, giving good effects, but whats about the 3rd skill "Illusion"? I think you need to keep holding the rod for the skill to stay active, and its something like the Mask rogues got? So useless for us?

Oh and in 8th line, I'm wondering, does pure str chars can use the HP leech skills effectivly? Or the amount of HP taken is based on mag damage?
Whats about the damage reflect skills also from the 6th line of skills?

Last question, anyone know what does Mirage and Phantasma skills from the 9th and last line of skills in warlock? what does "Weapon Magical Attack Power % reduce" means? And "Aggro # Reduce" ? Are they effective for a pure str / rogue?

Hope someone can help me.

[Atsuten]

I know first 2 lines of skills in warlock as useless as they make mag damage.

The only warlock skill I know of that is only magic damage is Vampire Touch/Kiss (aka HP leech skills).
I thought the first 2 lines were DOT... a.k.a. absolute damage (if not resisted)