Gay for rogues

[Rainigul]

Is it just me, or do others think that just about everyone on this forum is in love with rogues, and totally overestimating them?

I mean, I've seen higher level fights, and rogue doesn't do very good.

Also, in parties, when I'm acting as the bard, I'll always attack in my off time from healing, and there was this one level 23 rogue, I was level 22 at the time, and she had on dagger desperate, all buffs with poisoning on too (I know it doesn't add any more damage, but whatever) using her strongest attack, and my bard still hit higher than her.

Bards aren't exactly the kings of damage either, not to mention they don't have any attack buffs until level 30.

So... Why does everyone insist that rogues are so good?

If you're talking about pvp, I think this is how it goes: 1 hand sword, 2 hand sword, wizard, cleric (these can ultimately be the best I think, but I'm not sure yet so I'll place them here), crossbow (these guys get better in later levels, but it pretty much has to do entirely with range), dual axes, bard (buffs ftw ), warlock (these guys are great against other euro chars, but not so good against chinese), dagger rogue.

Be super duper honest, how good do you really think rogues are, in your own experience.

Don't be like "omfg on csro tey sai dey pwn". Ok, csro has some pretty crazy players... So many of them are 1:1 hybrids, and by isro standards that's pretty weird. So, why should you listen to them about rogues? I think the whole manual potting thing changes their perspective on alot of stuff.
If you can hit someone 2 or 3 times before they realize you're there, that build is good in csro.

Discuss.

P.S. WTF is with people always calling rogues rouges? It's not a red french guy, it's a rogue... ROGUE.

[Millenium]

I agree with you. I HATE rogues in party.

I'm not gonna say who, but there always seem to be idiots who like to put desperate on and go tank mobs in our party. Dagger rogues doesn't do much damage, and is annoying because our pro cleric needs to heal him constantly, which then make the tankers die.

I've seen a couple of good cross bow rogues though. I think too many noobs use Rogue and it brings other good rogues down.

[Gusy]

Lol just look at the size of the daggers, do you expect them to be stronger than those huge 2h swords Thats just a first impression but rogue is meant to be like moves fast, comes out of no where, quickly finishes off someone or at least stuns em, then dissapears into the dark again

[Nixie]

You do not know anything about rogues. Did you even see a dagger? No? I've got a level 18 critical 15 dagger which is at 53%. The lowest critical is 2 if I'm not mistaken. Now, try doi this: my crit 15 - the basic critival = 13 for around 50%. With a 100% critical that would be around 25 critical! What does that mean? Yeah, each forth hit would be a critical hit. Also, did you even compare the attack speed? I have a bard/cleric and rogue myself. The dagger hits the monsters atleast double as fast as the bard. The bard does great damage, but damage is not everything. You must count in into your calculation teh attack speed. Someone can hit 100k per 1 second, but hey! I can hit 10 times a second and each of the hits deals 15k damage! So that 150k damage in 1 second.

I hope you understand what I wanted to tell you.

Edit: 7yp0 3rr0r

[Blurred]

everyone likes rouges to make people who dident know about the little icon when pvping (duplicate shit) murder.

[wabbers]

but you cant hit 10 times a second lolz

[Rainigul]

You do not know anything about rogues. Did you even see a dagger? No? I've got a level 18 critical 15 dagger which is at 53%. The lowest critical is 2 if I'm not mistaken. Now, try doi this: my crit 15 - the basic critival = 13 for around 50%. With a 100% critical that would be around 25 critical! What does that mean? Yeah, each forth hit would be a critical hit. Also, did you even compare the attack speed? I have a bard/cleric and rogue myself. The dagger hits the monsters atleast double as fast as the bard. The bard does great damage, but damage is not everything. You must count in into your calculation teh attack speed. Someone can hit 100k per 1 second, but hey! I can hit 10 times a second and each of the hits deals 15k damage! So that 150k damage in 1 second.

I hope you understand what I wanted to tell you.

Edit: 7yp0 3rr0r

The only thing rogues have going for them is the critical.

I've played on ksro, and I got to play csro for a day lol, then I just deleted it.
I was calculating attack speed, and I put it into my little calculation.

The person couldn't hit as fast as I could. Bards have a 388 (or was it 68?)% attack that hits in less than a quarter of a second, and you can attack again in like half a second. That move does like 700, whilst a dagger desperate rogue hits a combo of two 200's.

And as a wizard, I can hit 1.3k with basic fire nuke, and with life control on I can hit 1.7k.

Basic fire nuke fires in about a second.

Also, you must be new, because you don't know about combos

When you're a low level you might think attacking fast is better than attacking hard, that isn't so though, at least for chinese. This is because you might hit 500 five times, but someone who hits 2.5k once generally saves time, as well as being able to hit a critical.
For euro it might be different because of pot delay time, but I figure it won't change that much, especially for str.

Also, bard doesn't do great damage. I mean, it's fine, but I don't think I'm gonna ever solo as a bard, while I can easily solo as a wizard.

[Millenium]

Maybe the rogue will rock if he has a high crit dagger.
Maybe the rogue will rock if he becomes high level.
Dagger rogues from what I've seen in my party is nothing but trouble though. I still think its g4y. >_>

[Nixie]

I do have low leveled characters, 20 roughe adn 21 bard right now. And the damage of the rogue is nearly the same as that from my bard. With my bard I do 2 hit monsters, with my dagger I might do it with 3~4 hits. Also about the critical, you're wrong. If a bard does a 2.5k normal hit a s a 5k critical, that's realy good. But he has a LOT less chance since the harps can't have more than 2 critical. Dagger therefore can have 25+ as I said it before. Which make him a realy good fighter. And as one above said. A rougue is strong, but the stupid noob are making them the worth euro build. Also a crossbow rogue can deal nearly as high damage as a wizard (or was it warlock? ;/). Rogues can be strong if used the right way. Myself I like the rogue more than any other, probaly because I'm more likely a melle, also I like to be fast. ^^

@10 hits in a second response: You think that i'm such a beginer? lol... it was an example...

edit: @up: the rogue will not be good for a party if he doesn't know what to do. If someone is playing a rougue, he should know what's his job. Rogues should not block monsters (except there are no tankers) but he should try to deal as much damage as possible to the blocked monster. I've also seen a LOT of newbie daggers which lured shit loads of mobs at the party members... result: everyone died. <.<

[Millenium]

I do have low leveled characters, 20 roughe adn 21 bard right now. And the damage of the rogue is nearly the same as that from my bard. With my bard I do 2 hit monsters, with my dagger I might do it with 3~4 hits. Also about the critical, you're wrong. If a bard does a 2.5k normal hit a s a 5k critical, that's realy good. But he has a LOT less chance since the harps can't have more than 2 critical. Dagger therefore can have 25+ as I said it before. Which make him a realy good fighter. And as one above said. A rougue is strong, but the stupid noob are making them the worth euro build. Also a crossbow rogue can deal nearly as high damage as a wizard (or was it warlock? ;/). Rogues can be strong if used the right way. Myself I like the rogue more than any other, probaly because I'm more likely a melle, also I like to be fast. ^^

@10 hits in a second response: You think that i'm such a beginer? lol... it was an example...

Well you're talking about solo situations. What about in a party? Rogues can't buff, they can't tank, their dmg (dagger rogues especially) is a lot lower compared to casters. They only mind their business, which is what I don't like. True, rogues are strong, but in a party, not so needed >_>

[Nixie]

I do have low leveled characters, 20 roughe adn 21 bard right now. And the damage of the rogue is nearly the same as that from my bard. With my bard I do 2 hit monsters, with my dagger I might do it with 3~4 hits. Also about the critical, you're wrong. If a bard does a 2.5k normal hit a s a 5k critical, that's realy good. But he has a LOT less chance since the harps can't have more than 2 critical. Dagger therefore can have 25+ as I said it before. Which make him a realy good fighter. And as one above said. A rougue is strong, but the stupid noob are making them the worth euro build. Also a crossbow rogue can deal nearly as high damage as a wizard (or was it warlock? ;/). Rogues can be strong if used the right way. Myself I like the rogue more than any other, probaly because I'm more likely a melle, also I like to be fast. ^^

@10 hits in a second response: You think that i'm such a beginer? lol... it was an example...

Well you're talking about solo situations. What about in a party? Rogues can't buff, they can't tank, their dmg (dagger rogues especially) is a lot lower compared to casters. They only mind their business, which is what I don't like. True, rogues are strong, but in a party, not so needed >_>

For myself as a dagger/x-bow rogue I do know what to do in parties, rarely I hunt solo because Giants are everywhere, you can kill them solo. Also when I'm an a party that hasn't a blocker, I put on the dagger, when a tanker is there I switch to x-bow to deal more damage. You should know that the damage of a x-bow is nearly as high as a wizards attack. Atleast high levels said it so, can't guarantee that it's true.

[Millenium]

For myself as a dagger/x-bow rogue I do know what to do in parties, rarely I hunt solo because Giants are everywhere, you can kill them solo. Also when I'm an a party that hasn't a blocker, I put on the dagger, when a tanker is there I switch to x-bow to deal more damage. You should know that the damage of a x-bow is nearly as high as a wizards attack. Atleast high levels said it so, can't guarantee that it's true.

Well warrior class have taunt, dagger rogues don't. So eventually the mob will run to the wizard that deals the most dmg. What are you gonna do then? >_> If you want your dagger rogue to give the mob enough dmg you'll have to cast desperate which makes it hard for the clerics if you hav 2-3 mobs aggro you. I think tanking isn't all about being about to take hits from mobs >_>

I like xbow builds though, they deal good dmg and when mobs aggro them they can take few hits. Their dmg prolly increases as they get higher level with higher % skills and nice str bonus on their equips, but in level 2x-4x I'm convinced that wizards will deal more dmg.

I like it when people have warrior/rogue tree because they can actually tank in parties and can solo nicely and be able to make masks Ever thought of trying that, or too much sp?

[Chromis]

Well, i've got a lvl 30 xbow rogue atm, and I think the damage it does far exceeds the wizards IF they crit, and, it only works with 1 skill, the other one's crit = the wizard's damage.

Xbow > Dagger in terms of party play I would say, cause it doesn't accidentally end up tanking because of being so close, or taking AoE damage from mobs such as Punishers as well. So yeah, In my opinion they're pretty good.

Eg: I zerk + crit about 7k on a punisher. The wizard zerk + (cannot crit) about 5 - 5.5k ish.

[Nixie]

For myself as a dagger/x-bow rogue I do know what to do in parties, rarely I hunt solo because Giants are everywhere, you can kill them solo. Also when I'm an a party that hasn't a blocker, I put on the dagger, when a tanker is there I switch to x-bow to deal more damage. You should know that the damage of a x-bow is nearly as high as a wizards attack. Atleast high levels said it so, can't guarantee that it's true.

Well warrior class have taunt, dagger rogues don't. So eventually the mob will run to the wizard that deals the most dmg. What are you gonna do then? >_> If you want your dagger rogue to give the mob enough dmg you'll have to cast desperate which makes it hard for the clerics if you hav 2-3 mobs aggro you. I think tanking isn't all about being about to take hits from mobs >_>

I like xbow builds though, they deal good dmg and when mobs aggro them they can take few hits. Their dmg prolly increases as they get higher level with higher % skills and nice str bonus on their equips, but in level 2x-4x I'm convinced that wizards will deal more dmg.

I like it when people have warrior/rogue tree because they can actually tank in parties and can solo nicely and be able to make masks Ever thought of trying that, or too much sp?

But isn't it still better to have a dagger then nothing that would protect the mages for some time? Sometimes eveana second of protection can save you from the death, but not always.

About the wizard vs x-bow... I believe that wizard will deal the greatest damage at all levels, might be that x-bow can hit more at some point, I wouldn't like to discuss this untill I haven't seen and tested that.

Warrior/rogue? That's actualy a waste of SP, I'd rather take warrior/bard for the buffs. But that's just incease if you are playing solo more than in parties. myself I'm just with rogue and I'm leveling fine solo also in parties.

About the masks... yeah, a rogue dagger might not be that powerfull, but still he can do a lot of cash (people are wasting 250k for the 15 minutes ... lol).

[Key-J]

I agree with you. I HATE rogues in party.

OMG </3

[Barotix]

dont count the rogues out yet.
you'll see.

thats all im saying.
im not gonna try to convince.

just patience is a virtue.

you assume rogue has to sneak up, to get a kill.
your wrong.

the rogue passives will make it, as said several times, the 2nd highest dmg dealer.

in the early game count them out.

but in the end game watch your back, cause my shank has tasted blood once, and wont stop there.

just a lit to keep in mind

[Hitman144]

they seem to so decent damage at lvl 40 , but rogue is more of a fun build were u can make monter mask and turn into people , other than that rogues aren't that good at low level.

my cSRO rogue lvl 43 , does 11k crit with npc armor no blues , and npc dagger

so they do seem to be getting better as ther in the higher lvls

[Vandall]

i agree with nixie that a rouge has to know his/her place in a party. if the party is short a warrior, the rouge should try and tank to his best ability (without using desperate daggers at all). if the party is short a wizard, the rouge should use his xbow from a far distance (33m+ ) and deal out the most dmg possible.

desperate dagger and extreme bow are not supposed to be used while tanking, it just gets u killed .

[s0017]

Rogues depend on crit, without it they're dead. A lvl 32 crossbow rogue killed me with 1.9k crit and another attack. I was also lvl 32 with about 2.5k of hp, WITH a shield. After I came back, I killed him because he didn't crit.

[StuckUP]

If you're talking about pvp, I think this is how it goes: 1 hand sword, 2 hand sword, wizard, cleric (these can ultimately be the best I think, but I'm not sure yet so I'll place them here), crossbow (these guys get better in later levels, but it pretty much has to do entirely with range), dual axes, bard (buffs ftw ), warlock (these guys are great against other euro chars, but not so good against chinese), dagger rogue.

warlocks are very good when comes to fighting bowmen and glaivers pwned a lvl 30 glaiver at lvl 24 as a warlock and pawned a lvl 29 bowman at lvl 24 also...with fog and stunning and cursing and running a little bit

[Irritated]

When i was 2X with my rogue(dagger) i almost resarted with another build because my damage was sooooooo low. Im 41 now and i have seen a big increase in my damage, i guess its probley the passives and the level 40 skills that have damage like (+375%).

I can't wait to get my 42 daggers that are +3, crit 20. I think then i can really start to test my damage compared to other builds.

[criticalss]

maybe it was a full int? on my full int who has rogue as sub, using an npc dagger and zerk at lvl 20 i did 2340 as crit

[Stress]

This is why I'm a warrior. I knew that rogue would get overused.

[jabbers]

i was thinkin of startin a rougue char, does anyone use both weapons tho , seem like dagger+xbow would be good and easy to dual weapon with, plus I found som 32 daggers it must be a sign

[Nimko]

For myself as a dagger/x-bow rogue I do know what to do in parties, rarely I hunt solo because Giants are everywhere, you can kill them solo. Also when I'm an a party that hasn't a blocker, I put on the dagger, when a tanker is there I switch to x-bow to deal more damage. You should know that the damage of a x-bow is nearly as high as a wizards attack. Atleast high levels said it so, can't guarantee that it's true.

Well warrior class have taunt, dagger rogues don't. So eventually the mob will run to the wizard that deals the most dmg. What are you gonna do then? >_> If you want your dagger rogue to give the mob enough dmg you'll have to cast desperate which makes it hard for the clerics if you hav 2-3 mobs aggro you. I think tanking isn't all about being about to take hits from mobs >_>

I like xbow builds though, they deal good dmg and when mobs aggro them they can take few hits. Their dmg prolly increases as they get higher level with higher % skills and nice str bonus on their equips, but in level 2x-4x I'm convinced that wizards will deal more dmg.

I like it when people have warrior/rogue tree because they can actually tank in parties and can solo nicely and be able to make masks Ever thought of trying that, or too much sp?

Scorn

[Lyrikk]

I read the first few posts, and honestly cant continue reading. So I will make mine.

First off, all of the "noob rogues" are 100% player, not class... so dont bash the mechanics, bash the player sitting behind the screen. Second of all, as long as a rogue knows how agro works (I know it well, better than most loltanks out there)... they will never get hit if they dont want to.

Secondly, too bad crossbows cant hold agro for shit, and the dagger rogue will be there to click off dagger desperate and offtank for the cleric. Oh yeah, and as for the damage? The term DPS (damage per sec) is important for a reason, you dont need to have the highest single shot to do the most damage. If i hit twice for 6k... its going to out damage your 10k shot.

Also, show me a crossbow rogue my level who can out damage a "Prick" crit.... gg

[XemnasXD]

You can't blame ALL rogues for being bad just because its an attractive class thats hard to play....In PvP against my lvl i pwn everything the only build i have trouble with is warlock and 2H sword and 2H sword is a problem only IF they survive my first attack.

In parties you gotta know when to use dagger desperate and when not to use dagger desperate. If the TANKERS were doing there job which is aggroing ALL the mobs towards them then there would be NO problems. But i rarely see a tanker tanking instead his goal is to somehow deal damage. Anyway no brain rogue move is don't use dagger desperate in a party thats under tanked and underhealed. I only use it when i know the healers are ok with it so i ask them. And when i do use it I can kill ALOT faster than anything in my party except Wizards and no i don't run out and try and tank mobs i let the warriors do there job....


And for everyone complaining that Daggers die easily in party when they try and tank I know everyone here has died more times because some noob wizard decided to AoE 5 party mobs then run away but i met you haven't died close to 1/4 as many times due to dagger errors...


and thats all i have to say about that

[Ell]

I like it when people have warrior/rogue tree because they can actually tank in parties and can solo nicely and be able to make masks

Yay

Imo rogues are meant more for pvp than pve. Like MrFudge said, if you want damage dealers in your party go with wizard, if you want tanks, go with warrior. Rogues don't really fit in there since they can do a bit of both, but still can't tank as much as a warrior or deal as much constant damage as a wizard.

[Millenium]

I like it when people have warrior/rogue tree because they can actually tank in parties and can solo nicely and be able to make masks

Yay

Imo rogues are meant more for pvp than pve. Like MrFudge said, if you want damage dealers in your party go with wizard, if you want tanks, go with warrior. Rogues don't really fit in there since they can do a bit of both, but still can't tank as much as a warrior or deal as much constant damage as a wizard.

Dwight you have my dream build. And thanks for tanking for us all the time. Ima buy you from Metroid xD

[indianpride]

duh they wouldnt take off as much -_- its cross bow that takes off alot not dags, idiots in parties that tank w/ desparte are just stupid dags are not good for tank until later in the game (or so i've been told) and btw.... how the hell are you taking a break from healing if u r a bard?


lol