Wizard Secondary: Warlock or Bard

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:35 am

Hey there everybody. I'm at level 21 and have been putting off leveling a second mastery for a while now. I'm torn between Bard and Warlock since they both seem to offer some interesting skills to help compliment my Wizard from a PvE standpoint (not interested much in PvP).

So, (since there are so many powerleveled up wizards, bards, and warlocks

) if anyone here has some insight into how skills and attributes from either of these masteries would compliment a Wizard, I'd greatly appreciate the shared wisdom.

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:11 am

Two votes, and no posts to back up the votes. :shock:

San · Post by **San** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:28 am

Cleric

Infstdraynor · Post by **Infstdraynor** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:56 am

I agree. A cleric would be definitely more helpful, also a great sell point to join parties.

Hawkster · Post by **Hawkster** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:13 am

Infstdraynor wrote:I agree. A cleric would be definitely more helpful, also a great sell point to join parties.

agreed.(i am one

)

Anyways out of them to i would choose Bard for its buffs.

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:15 am

I considered it for a time, but opted not too since I intend to be a Wizard and not get suckered into babysitting a party that has no Cleric with my secondary. ^^; Perhaps my next character will be a Cleric / Bard though.

Soo... anyone care to make a few comments on Bard or Warlock, and the skills they've used from either as a secondary?

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:34 am

In my opinion...

Warlock for HP absorption.
Bard for MP Cycle.

I have a level 18 Wizard/Warlock and I usually end up using skills from one or the other for extended periods of time. It's more of a "I feel like sapping this person to death" or a "I feel like shooting this thing once and killing it" it sort of thing. There's no huge difference. You just kill differently.

If you choose bard, you'll have your skills work together. You'll almost always have Moving March on so you can run faster, then you'll switch to a harp to use MP cycle once, switch back to a staff, then start pounding monsters again. You'll use HP Potions much more often than MP Potions, since you'll have essentially unlimited MP. (Unless you're careless enough to let your MP go under the amount required to cast MP Cycle on yourself)

I have a Cleric/Bard, and I've used ONE MP potion after getting MP Cycle. Why? I was soloing and I was about to die... xD

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:47 am

Thanks blocklandmac for the input. I actually did not know Mana Cycle could restore your own MP since all the characters I've seen with Bard Main or Secondary never use anything aside from the March, even though Mana Cycle is a level 10 skill.

Alot of the skills for Warlock are self explanatory in how they affect mobs, but I've yet to find much on Bard which is what's making the decision difficult. If anyone can give input on the following Bard skills, I'd appreciate it.

Holding Clamor [Similar to Wizard's Root?]
Temptation [No idea how this works]
Tuning Noise
Discord Wave

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:25 am

The spellcasting bards who only use Moving March don't know what they're doing. =P... I was able to support an 8 person party all by myself. This including healing, resurrection, refilling MP, occasional buffing, and occasional damage support. People rarely died, and that usually only happened when they ran way too far out. Everyone got Moving March. No one ran out of MP. People used potions, but not very many. I was level 10. I used one MP herb and nothing else. How? Mana Cycle. Cast it on yourself, cast it on others, cast it on yourself, switch to another weapon, then start healing or attacking.

Yes, that's advice for clerics, but it applies to wizards too. You can cast attacking spells until your MP is running low, cast Mana Cycle on yourself, then keep attacking. You can even cast Mana Cycle on yourself FIRST if you want to have "unlimited" MP of sorts. I'm not sure how effective this stays with the MP costs rising every level, but fully leveled MP Cycle + 20% MP Reduction from Robes + MP Reduction from Wizard Passive Skill = easy continuous casting. The worst thing that could happen is that you'll have to *gasp* use a potion like normal people! xP

Holding Clamor... If I remember correctly, it causes the "root" status. I don't see any reason for you to use it over root if you're a wizard. =P

Temptation... I don't have it, but I have an idea as to what it does. Basically, it makes a monster attack other monsters for a certain period of time. I can't give any input on the cooldown and overall usefulness of the skill, though. Sorry. =P

Tuning Noise... This does exactly as much damage as it says it does in the description. It then gives you exactly that much MP. It doesn't matter what you use it on. If it says "130 Absolute Damage" and "100% Absorption", it'll do exactly 130 damage and give you exactly 130 MP. It's pretty nifty, but I ended up using Mana Cycle to get my MP.

Discord Wave... You know when you run away from a monster and it eventually turns around and stops attacking? I think this skill makes them do that automatically. It sounds useful for getting people off of you, but I'm not sure if they'll come back at you if you hit them. I think they will, so you're better off using Root, then Fear. (20 seconds should be enough for you to kill a monster... right? xP)

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:09 am

Well Holding Clamor is a maybe skill incase I'd need to root something and don't feel like switching back to my Staff. The other skills, however, Temptation, Tuning Noise, and Discord Wave are the ones I really want to know about. Hopefully some higher level Bards will grace this thread with their presence and enlighten us.

mirror · Post by **mirror** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:12 am

I tougt to learn some warrior masterys only for armor set.duno is that a good idea?

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:31 pm

Please stick to the topic at hand.

Anywho, still looking for insight into Temptation and Discord Wave.

Atsuten · Post by **Atsuten** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:12 pm

Sorry to throw a wrench into your plan, but...

Mana cycle goes away if you un-equip your harp, so your "unlimited mp" idea doesn't quite work.

I would still recommend bard, tho, since you can be your own mana battery, as well as a battery for your team. I've noticed in parties I'm usually cleric (I hate switch between harp - staff & shd), and the only time the party has to stop is when we run out of MP.

For solo play this is a no-brainer. Nuke the mobs, switch to harp when you are low on mp, then switch back for more nukes.

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:36 pm

"Mana cycle goes away if you un-equip your harp, so your "unlimited mp" idea doesn't quite work."

No, it doesn't... O,o

I've been using it on myself, switching to a cleric rod, and healing people nonstop. What are you talking about? =P

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:37 pm

Looks like we have a debate on Mana Cycle. Can we get a 3rd in to clarify?

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:30 pm

I'm 100% sure that you can switch to a cleric rod after using Mana Cycle. It's fact. There's no way it can be denied, because I have done it several times. It's either that, or I have the most useful glitch in the who game. ^,^

Want proof?
Video: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ct82bm

Take note of my MP after I switch to my Cleric Rod. It goes all the way up. In fact, I can heal non-stop and I don't run out of MP because of Mana Cycle. I didn't do that in the video because it makes the recording lag. xD

If Atsuten says Mana Cycle goes away when you unequp your harp, I want to see a video of that happening, because it's never happened to me.

Purple7 · Post by **Purple7** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:32 pm

I can attest to that argument.

I'm a lv 28 Wizard/Bard and I have mana cycle.

I had been going to cerberus for a lot of my exp and the quest consisted of me healing the cleric's mp (mana cycle) and then my own mp (also mana cycle), then switching back to staff and hitting cerberus with some nukes.

Mana cycle stays on after switching weapons. Now, Guard Tambour does not stay on.

Also another thing to influence in your decision is that if it's a high level party, people need bards almost as much as they need clerics.

And another good skill for the bard is level 20 skill called Noise. This skill stops level 30 and below monsters from attacking you, kind of like a harmony therapy, except it stays with you and cannot be used on party members.

Wizard/Bard was my first class I ever made and I'd have to say that I think I made the right choice = )

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:41 pm

Thanks, Purple.

Now here's my updated view on Wizard/Warlock. (I have a level 20)

I LOVE my wizard/warlock. However, I will start off by saying that the two classes do NOT work together. Instead, you are able to change the way you fight. You will rarely have quick switches between the two classes, because it's inefficient. I switch to Wizard when I can kill a monster with one shot and when I get berserker, which allows me to kill monsters with one shot. xP...

I switch to Warlock for most other things, since I can keep casting and monsters around me keep dying. I often take on three monsters at once because my damage over time spells finish them off. I absorb HP when I'm running low, and I use MP potions to make up for the MP used. I also use Warlock instead of Wizard to fight bosses and party monsters solo, because I'll die otherwise.

Long and short... Wizard/Warlock is for people who want to unique experiences without having to make two characters. I love my Wizard/Warlock because I can kill monsters in many different ways and I have spells that are better suited for different monsters. It's basically a build that gives you countless ways of killing a monster, with some being more efficient than others. Once you figure out which skills are more efficient against some monsters, you'll level up really fast.

In short, Bard seems more suitable for you. You said that you wanted skills that would compliment a Wizard, not give your character a whole different side. I like Bards, but even more than that I like having more than 11 unique attack spells. (That's how many I counted for Wizards, leaving out improved versions of old spells) I like not having to worry about dying very often, and being able to laugh about it when I do because it's so much fun killing monsters anyway.

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:37 am

Thanks alot guys. I feel pretty settled on Bard.

Just wish I knew more about Temptation and Discord Wave.

blocklandmac · Post by **blocklandmac** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:35 am

Yeah, I'm sorry that I couldn't help with that. However, you'll get to try them if you go with bard for your secondary mastery.

At the moment, I'm level 20 and I just farmed up to over 600 skill points. I have a 4 level gap, and I'm torn between Wizard and Warlock skills. See the problem? I'm not picking certain skills from both. I'm going half Wizard and half Warlock, meaning I intend on using all skills from both classes. There really is no efficient way to go from Warlock to Wizard on the same monster. At most, I cast the damage over time spells on a strong boss and switch to wizard to pound them. I only do that when I have a tank, though.

So... Don't worry about not know about those skills. You'll get them anyway.

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:57 am

Well, being the crazy that I am, I'm level 23 at the moment and have farmed about 10,000 skill points and currently have a 3 level gap if I'm not mistaken. I just want to make sure I get all the facts on both so it will help in my choice.

These are the Skills / Lines from each I was trying to weigh against.

Warlock:

Raze Line [To debuff party mobs / giants in parties]
Dim Haze Line [Primarily for Slumber & Mirage]

or

Bard:

Music Pleasure [ Moving March for quick party movement ]
Melody [ Holding Clamor to use on top of Root & Temptation for Confusion/Crowd Control ]
Sound Line [ Mana restoration for the party, Noise & Discord Wave for aggro management ]

Not really trying to take on a whole second mastery persay, but just bits and pieces to round out my Wizard. For the moment I've been biding my time farming skill points as guides and detailed info on Warlock & Bard skills slowly reveal themselves in the forums so I can fairly judge both, hehe.

Spellbinder · Post by **Spellbinder** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:48 pm

Still looking for Bard info~

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