Mana Shield: Pure Int or Hybrid?

Infstdraynor · Post by **Infstdraynor** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:39 am

I have seen many debates on whether pure ints or hybrid ints benefit the most from the Mana shield skill; however, I feel that, with even a slightest degree of logic, one could easily come to the conclusion that hybrid ints do benefit the most from the Mana shield skill. For some who do not possess this slightest degree of logic, I shall explain the reasons.

First of all, we must remember the sole purpose of the Mana shield is to ameliorate the chances of survival, or simply put, to stop you from dying. And from my understandings, the skill does not completely transfer hp damage into mp damage.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Mana shield takes 50:50 of the hp damage into mp. Therefore, if the amount of damage outputted by your foe divided by 2 is greater than your hp, you die, how much of your mp you have left, and any more mp you have left would consider as excessive in terms of helping you survive. And so, we can deduct that the effectiveness of the mana shield is directly influenced by the amount of hp one has, to the point that he has enough mp to buffer the damage.

Well, we ask ourselves, who has more hp? The answer is undoubtly hybrids.

MrFudge · Post by **MrFudge** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:43 am

yup.

no point in having 10k mp left over at the time of death.
hybrid ftw.

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:18 am

.....i agree with what you say but your choice of words are a bit....excessive for a post about whether a mana sheild works best for a pur int or a hybrid....just seemed a little pretentious is all im saying

tomiotar · Post by **tomiotar** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:31 am

I will give you another view of the problem. Before people go hybrid with spear to increase their tank capabilities, now they just have to cast this skills and have max heuskal new passives. On this sistuation it will be like they have more than 20k HP during 2 minutes as pure int so:

why lower their damage being hybrid if they have more than enough HP?

On my opinion and being able to use lvl80 passives and skills:

Pure int:
80 Light (nukes and buff) 80 Heuskal(passive and most important weapon skills) 80 Ice (mana shield and phys defence) 60 bicheon (to switch when mana shield runout and kd him until you can cast it again).

William-CL · Post by **William-CL** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:38 am

Mana shield should be for pure Int i think cause if your hybrid, you will have less mp and hard to pull off a nuke considering you mp will be low constantly from being hit.

CobbZ · Post by **CobbZ** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:40 am

If a pure INT has enough HP to survive an 8K hit (at level 80 because pure ints at 80 have 5.4K HP right?) then why go hybrid and sacrifice damage?

__MagnuS__ · Post by **__MagnuS__** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:56 am

CobbZ wrote:If a pure INT has enough HP to survive an 8K hit (at level 80 because pure ints at 80 have 5.4K HP right?) then why go hybrid and sacrifice damage?

I'm only lvl 60 right now and have 4.5k HP. I hope I will have more by the time I hit 80. I fvcking better JoyMax!

Mefra · Post by **Mefra** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:13 am

Hey guys, I think it's great what all you guys are saying, but ain't a lot of people forgetting something?

The pure int would still have a very low defense. So the whole lot of mp would help, but someone would smack down a whole lot of that mp in 1 hit. You can't count the 20k mp just as hp...that way you would see it as 20k hp as a pure str...no way it's going to be that way...

CobbZ · Post by **CobbZ** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:14 am

a PURE INT at level 80 has around 6K HP and 19K MP right?

If so, the highest hit i have ever seen at level 80 is around 8-9K. Thats 4-4.5K away from HP and MP. Leaving 1.5K HP left and 14.5K MP left. Thats more than anough for a few smaller hits and the use of a nuke or some skills. AND if pots are set high that will be back up in no time.

soxdrop · Post by **soxdrop** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:38 pm

don't forget about the alchemy, you can make easely more than 9k hp like that. 1:2 int hybrids wont be able to use mana shield thats for sure 1:4 might be able while using skills i think + alchemy

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:10 pm

with euro coming the mana sheild won't exactly be reliable....if its a buff they cna just debuff it and then what do you do. I don't think its wise to plan a whole strategy based on the effectiveness of the mana sheild unless you don't plan on coming into much contact with Euro characters

Infstdraynor · Post by **Infstdraynor** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:11 pm

A lot of you are saying that a capped pure int CAN survive w/ the mana shield, so why be a hybrid. Albeit this is correct, but keep in mind that my argument here is that the mana shield has the greatest advantage to hybrids. A case I could think of is 1 capped pure INT tanking 2 others, both are hitting, quote cobbz, 8-9k, in this case, a pure int would not be able to survive, however, a hybrid would.

Monk1690 · Post by **Monk1690** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:10 pm

This is somewhat relevant to this topic. Is anyone an ice nuker??? If most people are replacing the fire tree for ice because of this mana shield, then I like to hear more about the ice nukes in terms of dmg. I'm at lvl 40 and haven't leveled my ice nukes up, but it does like 15-25% less dmg than the fire nuke; both at lvl 1 with fire as imbue. This dmg will be even less without the fire imbue and with the light imbue instead. Any alternative suggestions about which tree to replace for ice?

mmsicis · Post by **mmsicis** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:30 pm

if you rly miss fire go 80 fire 80 light 80 ice and 60 weapon and for 90 cap 90 ice 90 light 90 fire 30 weapon? So just turn on mana shield and nuke!!! i think in 2 mins Int can take down anyone unless its using mana shield also...

kevv · Post by **kevv** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:39 pm

Monk1690 wrote:This is somewhat relevant to this topic. Is anyone an ice nuker??? If most people are replacing the fire tree for ice because of this mana shield, then I like to hear more about the ice nukes in terms of dmg. I'm at lvl 40 and haven't leveled my ice nukes up, but it does like 15-25% less dmg than the fire nuke; both at lvl 1 with fire as imbue. This dmg will be even less without the fire imbue and with the light imbue instead. Any alternative suggestions about which tree to replace for ice?

Light nukes of course, they do almost as much or equal as much damage as fire nukes do, you should only level the second ice nuke if you want because the AOE.

Disconn3cted · Post by **Disconn3cted** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:26 pm

pure str with no imbue will benefit from it the most

lexies2 · Post by **lexies2** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:22 am

Disconn3cted wrote:pure str with no imbue will benefit from it the most

No they wont, one nuke to them will probably take down the shield in one hit.

IguanaRampage · Post by **IguanaRampage** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:20 am

CobbZ wrote:a PURE INT at level 80 has around 6K HP and 19K MP right?

If so, the highest hit i have ever seen at level 80 is around 8-9K. Thats 4-4.5K away from HP and MP. Leaving 1.5K HP left and 14.5K MP left. Thats more than anough for a few smaller hits and the use of a nuke or some skills. AND if pots are set high that will be back up in no time.

I'd like to know where you get your stats from. Judging from the fact there were pure ints with 6-7.5k hp at the 70 cap, I should hope they have slightly more at the 80 cap. If you have (and settle for) 6k hp at the 80 cap, and are serious about pvp, you shouldn't play the game.

Also what happens if you get SST crit for 9k, followed by GSM for 6.5k? Then you're gone. Mana shield does benefit INTs, but not as much as everyone seems to think. They will still have as tough a time against an equal lvl strength build.

kevv · Post by **kevv** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:25 am

lexies2 wrote:
Disconn3cted wrote:pure str with no imbue will benefit from it the most
No they wont, one nuke to them will probably take down the shield in one hit.

You don't take it down as far as I know.

For those who don't know, a pure int with about 50-55 str on gear, 1200 hp and heuskal passive maxed will have about 10k hp, without the passive around 9k.

tomiotar · Post by **tomiotar** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:54 am

If you find a lvl80 pure int with less than 7k HP you will see it full time on the floor. The 80 pure int that you fight normally on pvp are S/S (so they can add up to 60 str and 1,2k HP) that have near to 8k HP (without heuskal passive) and they die but typically after a hard crit or after being stunned by the glaviers.

All possible builds can take profit of this skills but they have to level it up to the appropiate level. Im sure that that a pure str can have it just at 20% and using x-large pots at high % they will not runout of MP and 20% is like having those scroll that you can buy on item mall for free.

With current skills a pure int has to use s/s because if not they can die at first stun or first crit, but with new skills I think that the best pure int it will be a spear one. He has to play as glaviers does at the begining to stun (at lvl80 they get a new book of SS so they can make 4 tries to stun you on 2 skills) the glavier and then the best nuke he has followed by GSM. The glavier can do the same but GSM or SS books does much more damage used by a pure int than use for a pure str. The problem is that now, even when the pure str damage is lower, the pure str damage is enough to kill a pure int spear.

CobbZ · Post by **CobbZ** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:11 am

Iguana, it was simply an estimation, i wasnt basing my point on facts or evidence.

And yes, we will still have troubke with any build, as will every other build. This mana shield is simply making us equal to other builds. Before it was a one hit kill from a pure str, now we can have a long decent battle with them.

Nn · Post by Nn » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:13 am

what tree will the mana shield be in?

GaS · Post by **GaS** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:45 pm

I am level 76 with level 60 heuksal and I have 8078 health with gear and 5045 health naked. When I get to 80 I know I can get up to 10K health =\ ...

Besides soul spear + nuke = Dead hybrid.

Ice_Warrior · Post by **Ice_Warrior** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:35 pm

we don't even have the skill yet, why is everyone thinknig they kno it all, you don't kno if its a buff that will last consume mp over time, or a skills which lasts 15 secs............ and joymax wnt create a skill which will make 1 build dominate the game, there must be some floors to the skill.

Ice_Warrior · Post by **Ice_Warrior** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:37 pm

LOL gas, soul spear and nuke dead hybrid........... u chat sh1t, 1.hybrid spear 2:1 has 14k HP, 2.x-large pots heal about 4 - 5k in about 2 secs, there is no way a pure int spear will be able to soul spear and nuke to kill a hybrid, even if you had sun u wnt be able to 2 skill a hybrid, idiot, dnt assume you do as much dmg on a str then a hybrid. Your dmg will rapidly decrease to the ratio og hp and dmg to a hybrid.

phulshof · Post by **phulshof** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:53 pm

lvl 80 spear passive gives just over 2K HP I believe; a nice bonus for spear users.

I read somewhere that the damage sent to MP was doubled, so 4K damage with 40% absorption would result in 2.4K damage to HP, and 3.2K damage to MP. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Is it indeed 2.4K/3.2K or 2.4K/1.6K?

WiiNee · Post by **WiiNee** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm

Mana shield is in cold mastery right?

Cold is used very effective together with bow!

And bow is a hybrid weapon

>

So, as my opinoin, use mana shield with hybrid bow is the best!!!

phulshof · Post by **phulshof** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:48 pm

Well, one thing you CAN say about all this: with so many people dropping the fire tree, cold imbue is starting to look a whole lot better again. Gone may be the times when everybody at high level was immune to all effects.

skyduck · Post by **skyduck** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:52 pm

Pure int spear at 80 has about 9-10k hp depends on alchemy now.
When the new skills/passives come, it will add another 1k hp.

At current level without the new skills, you cannot kill a pure int spear build if you are not hitting consistently over 4-5k of damage.
Pure int spear dies so fast because of the critical hit most of the time.
A sosun glaive crit about 9 to 10k on pure int spear now, thats instant death.

But when the mana shield comes out, 50% of the damage go to mp,
and thats the time when a pure int spear can tank a sosun glaiver.
Because every hit is going to be around 25-50k.

So, who benefit the most? Tanking while having the ability to actually kill str character?

SneakyLilBastard · Post by **SneakyLilBastard** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:49 pm

I have seen many debates on whether pure ints or hybrid ints benefit the most from the Mana shield skill; however, I feel that, with even a slightest degree of logic, one could easily come to the conclusion that hybrid ints do benefit the most from the Mana shield skill.

Pures benefit the most from mana shield due to having such low health that they need it, but hybrids are more powerful with mana shield due to their increased health on top of the mana shield.

If mana shield absorbed 100% damage to mana, then yeah, pures would be the best, but alas.

- N