Joymax and Programmers

[SolidusRegime]

I think Joymax are idiots for not hiring professional computer programmers. I have been scripting C++ and REALbasic for around 3 years and could easily disallow botting applications from being opened.

I offered my services to Joymax and they deleted my thread, I then posted the scripts they should use for GameGuard on the official forums, and then they banned my account.

This just sucks ass if you ask me.

[BlackFox]

But way they really want have other programmers when they have allready ...And they dont know nothing about you ...

[SolidusRegime]

Yes, I understand trust is in issue, but the fact that I even post like a script with over 2.5k lines of code and I get banned and my thread was deleted.

[BuddahBless]

lol really? O_o

Pm me those scripts. I wanna post them and see what happens. I don't think you posted in the right way. Did you do something like this..."omgZZ Jm you SuX. I have been proGramming 3 yeaRs and I just wrote someThing up in 20 miN that pwnzz youR curr3nt S3curity!11!1 L00K!11

[Lines of code]

Hahahhah Jm you Suxx. Sux My LefT Nut ahahahahaha xD."

If you did something like that then yeah you might get deleted.

Seriously pm me those scripts....I wanna see what happens if I post them.

[NuclearSilo]

so tell us what is your script about, and how i can detect bot?
btw, they wont use Gameguard so implement it in GG helps nothing.

[SolidusRegime]

I don't have all the scripts I used, but I will post a basic one that will close the SRO client if a specific application is opened while SRO is open.

And to be perfectly honest, I am not an idiot, so I wouldn't post like a retard. I have been working in the IT programming environment for a while, so I know how come across when I want something done.

Code: Select all

on prepareMovie
  lBotWindow = "Cygnus"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "WinHex"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "Cheat Engine"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "AutoBot"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "WinHex"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "TSearch"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "ArtMoney"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "WPE Pro"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
  lBotWindow = "WPE Pro - sroclient"
  if baFindWindow("", lBotWindow)
    lAlertMsg = "The SRO Client has now closed due to a hacking attempt."
    alert(lAlertMsg)
    quit
  end if
end

You can add more and change more, and I will be setting it up so they can just add the name of a program to a text file and it will automatically block it from opening.

[BuddahBless]

cool

But isnt that easy to get around? Just rename the process the bot runs under.

This is a very basic script. Lemme see the advanced ones. ;o

[SolidusRegime]

Also, to stop people from hexing the game, they can make it check the MD5 Hash of the system files when the game connects. They can then specify the correct hashes on a server side files, and match them up before allowing the connection.

And no, because it is not based around what the bot app is named, it is based around what the Dirapi specified name is, and that can't be bypassed as far as I know.

EDIT: Dirapi names can be change using hex editors on the specified application, but, then the botter won't be able to use the program because all the system files will point to the name of the app, and it won't exist.

[ciddy]

they dont want to admit the big botting problem on sro cuz new ppl wont play it

[SolidusRegime]

They wouldn't have to if they bothered to stop banning them and just start blocking the applications and such. MapleStory gladly took my scripts, and there protection is a lot better then SROs.

[KByte]

Wow, it\'s sad how SRO functions, but hey it\'s just a game right. Life;s not fair, so why should a game be. =P Someone just ksed me today and the bandit giant dropped a sox bow, those things are worth a good deal of money, damn...

[Crumpets]

Lol who uses ArtMoney nowadays >.>

[desolator144]

I wrote several hacks and they haven't banned me rofl. Well they're not baaad hacks, just nice little usefull stuff that doesn't interact with the game directly, just Windows one's my element viewer
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MKCLMior-2I
and the other is my extremely annoying wonder most ppl in DW on Venice have had to put up with, mŷ qµÍ¢k kèŷbøárđ ĺáŷøµr møđ̓Íèr! Just ctrl-shift and you're in ƒµňkŷ møđè for in game typing lol.

But yeah, I could fix botting in my sleep but the Joymax programmers are too busy doing all Yahoo Korea's stupid ass assignments to get something real done. And we all know Yahoo's about money money money! That's why instead of doing anything at all constructive about bots and server traffic during the last couple weeks, they came up with a way for people to pay to cheat it (premium ticket) and it doesn't solve the problem at all. Like 99% of bots never buy silk so they're losing so much money...GOD THEY'RE STUPID!!!! There's well over 25 different ways to stop all botting permanently and they damn well know it. If any company I ever work for wants to outsource to South Korea, I'll show them SRO

[bluey]

The truth behind them not implementing gamegaurd is simple, Joymax like every other major multi-million dollar corporation, all follow one basic principle; maximize profits while minimizing output. There is one blaring fact that they must constantly keep in mind -

The current bot population, gold bots and client players, is peaking at around 90%

The result of using GG with this one basic fact in mind, would essentially wipe out more than half of the gaming population with their current policies (permanent ban on first offense). Another overwhelming fact is that bots DO buy silk, more than half of them do contrary to popular belief. Whether it be ccfing (Credit Card Fraud) or stealing paypal accounts, profits are profits and how they come about is irrelevant as long as the flow is constant and increasing.

Finally, If they directly address this problem by simply not banning bots, they immediately lose a percentage of players due to looking bad (and as ive discussed, players are $$). Joymax has a simple, blatant and elementary solution to their profit dilemma; under staff their iSRO gm department while ever increasing the amount of servers they manage (again increasing population and increasing profits exponentially).

I want to clarify in light of the last sentence in the previous paragraph that the current gms are very hard working, good, wholesome people. I've personally talked to the head GM in America, and they really are good people. The fact is that these GMs have to go through headquarters in Korea with every major decision they make, it was only recently that a portion of their policies were changed to allow for mass bot banning (although mostly gold bots and non-silk buyers) without the double checking of the Korean GMs. Also, with so little staff, it is extremely hard to comb every server regularly for botters.

In conclusion, bots will never disappear from iSRO, as it is the mule of all versions for profits. GG will never be fully implemented, as it would completely destroy profits with their current perma ban policies. The only real banning we will see is a few client botters, and mostly gold bots (and the logic is simple behind that: gold bots are the only bots that decrease profits).

If joymax really cared, they would reinstate the degree bans for botting; first offense 4 week ban, second is a permanent ban. With this they wouldn't lose that much profit, as it would detour people from continuing to bot. The current policies just make people fed up, and encourage them to bot multiple chars from 1 to 80 because it will probably just get banned, or quit the game all together and never return.

Anyway, thats my rant for tonight, and its the solid 100% truth. This is how all corporations operate, you cannot deny it.

[Da_Realest]

The truth behind them not implementing gamegaurd is simple, Joymax like every other major multi-million dollar corporation, all follow one basic principle; maximize profits while minimizing output. There is one blaring fact that they must constantly keep in mind -

That is somewhat true....

The current bot population, gold bots and client players, is peaking at around 90%

90% of what?

The result of using GG with this one basic fact in mind, would essentially wipe out more than half of the gaming population with their current policies (permanent ban on first offense).

I see...

I believe there are more legit players than you think. Just estimation and it may vary depending on the server, but:

30% of players in the Jangan region use a bot or is a gold bot.
45% of the players in the Donwang region use a bot or is a gold bot.
70% of the players in the Hotan region use a bot or is a gold bot.

Another overwhelming fact is that bots DO buy silk, more than half of them do contrary to popular belief.

The majority of bots are gold farming bots. Gold farming bots do not buy silk since their main focus is not leveling. Its to maximize gold profits. They also farm elements to sell into the economy. For example, its pretty obvious why a level 52 gold bot is still hunting bunwangs.

Whether it be ccfing (Credit Card Fraud) or stealing paypal accounts, profits are profits and how they come about is irrelevant as long as the flow is constant and increasing.

From what I understand, Joymax doesn't make anyone money from CCF since many CCFers chargeback after buying silk and transfer the purchased items to another account.

Finally, If they directly address this problem by simply not banning bots, they immediately lose a percentage of players due to looking bad (and as ive discussed, players are $$). Joymax has a simple, blatant and elementary solution to their profit dilemma; under staff their iSRO gm department while ever increasing the amount of servers they manage (again increasing population and increasing profits exponentially).

There is no signs that show that Joymax is understaffed. When a new bug if discovered that hinders gameplay in some form, it is immediately fixed. Bots are banned on a regular basis for the most part. There probably are better ways of to do so, but its not like the Joymax staff isn't trying.

I want to clarify in light of the last sentence in the previous paragraph that the current gms are very hard working, good, wholesome people. I've personally talked to the head GM in America, and they really are good people. The fact is that these GMs have to go through headquarters in Korea with every major decision they make, it was only recently that a portion of their policies were changed to allow for mass bot banning (although mostly gold bots and non-silk buyers) without the double checking of the Korean GMs. Also, with so little staff, it is extremely hard to comb every server regularly for botters.

Last time I checked and was told by MorningDew, there are no GMs in America. All GMs reside in Korea.

In conclusion, bots will never disappear from iSRO, as it is the mule of all versions for profits.

It has little to do with profits. Bots are a problem in all games. They tend to be more of a problem in F2P games.

GG will never be fully implemented, as it would completely destroy profits with their current perma ban policies.

GameGuard is fully implemented. Its not the best type of botting prevention though. If you've experienced other games that operate with GameGuard, you would know that most of them have a botting problem also.

The only real banning we will see is a few client botters, and mostly gold bots (and the logic is simple behind that: gold bots are the only bots that decrease profits).

There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. 1 gold bot = 1 player bot. Bots are all the same to me for the most part. If anything, gold bots should be the most important. Their the main cause of server traffic and the reason why sos and good gear is so expensive.

There is no hidden concept behind why gold bots are banned more often than player bots. They are easier to detect than player bots. Based on Joymax's current bot detection methods, all you have to do is be at your computer when a GM notifies you about botting. The bot can detect and notify you when a GM is near so its not hard to do other things and still make back to the game in time to say you are not botting.

If joymax really cared, they would reinstate the degree bans for botting; first offense 4 week ban, second is a permanent ban.

Botters are already received a permanent ban. If you're referring to a IP ban, that wouldn't work out. It would cause more problems than any help it would do. Also, its not hard to connect back to the game with the numerous proxies available. The connection would probably be bad but it wouldn't matter to a botter. There not actually playing the game.

With this they wouldn't lose that much profit, as it would detour people from continuing to bot. The current policies just make people fed up, and encourage them to bot multiple chars from 1 to 80 because it will probably just get banned, or quit the game all together and never return.

The current policies do encourage people to do anything. Its the player's choice to bot.

Thats what I like about the majority of player bots. They're the first to the cap and the first to quit.

Anyway, thats my rant for tonight, and its the solid 100% truth. This is how all corporations operate, you cannot deny it.

All corporations do not function that way. Without going into too much detail, it may necessary for a corporation to take a loss for a certain time frame and attempt to make up revenue later. For all we know, Joymax could be losing money.

[non ego man]

[blah blah blah]

+1

[bluey]

The truth behind them not implementing gamegaurd is simple, Joymax like every other major multi-million dollar corporation, all follow one basic principle; maximize profits while minimizing output. There is one blaring fact that they must constantly keep in mind -

That is somewhat true....

This is almost always true for a major corporation, its what it all boils down to (this thing is already long and I'm not going into how it all works)

The current bot population, gold bots and client players, is peaking at around 90%

90% of what?

I don't understand what you don't understand. I'm saying 9/10 players are bots - which is perfectly plausible with 3000 people on the server.

The result of using GG with this one basic fact in mind, would essentially wipe out more than half of the gaming population with their current policies (permanent ban on first offense).

I see...

I believe there are more legit players than you think. Just estimation and it may vary depending on the server, but:

30% of players in the Jangan region use a bot or is a gold bot.
45% of the players in the Donwang region use a bot or is a gold bot.
70% of the players in the Hotan region use a bot or is a gold bot.

Whether or not this statement is true, the fact remains that if gamegaurd were fully utilized, half the population would disappear overnight.

Another overwhelming fact is that bots DO buy silk, more than half of them do contrary to popular belief.

The majority of bots are gold farming bots. Gold farming bots do not buy silk since their main focus is not leveling. Its to maximize gold profits. They also farm elements to sell into the economy. For example, its pretty obvious why a level 52 gold bot is still hunting bunwangs.

I'm trying to also say here that there are more people who are NOT legit than you think, they are just babysitting their bots, i could name many many people too. They play the game just like every other legit player, they're respectful and nice, but they dont grind.

Whether it be ccfing (Credit Card Fraud) or stealing paypal accounts, profits are profits and how they come about is irrelevant as long as the flow is constant and increasing.

From what I understand, Joymax doesn't make anyone money from CCF since many CCFers chargeback after buying silk and transfer the purchased items to another account.

I suppose your right, theres alot of things i want to say and sometimes they get garbled together and dont make sense. Im just trying to say that profits are #1 for every company.

Finally, If they directly address this problem by simply not banning bots, they immediately lose a percentage of players due to looking bad (and as ive discussed, players are $$). Joymax has a simple, blatant and elementary solution to their profit dilemma; under staff their iSRO gm department while ever increasing the amount of servers they manage (again increasing population and increasing profits exponentially).

There is no signs that show that Joymax is understaffed. When a new bug if discovered that hinders gameplay in some form, it is immediately fixed. Bots are banned on a regular basis for the most part. There probably are better ways of to do so, but its not like the Joymax staff isn't trying.

Are you joking? Yes, the gm department for isro joymax is understaffed. If this were not true, we would see much more presence in the game, and more bots being banned every week out of the 3000 player count per server. Bug updates are irrelevant, that is a must for the game to function, making it priority 1 when a problem arises.

I want to clarify in light of the last sentence in the previous paragraph that the current gms are very hard working, good, wholesome people. I've personally talked to the head GM in America, and they really are good people. The fact is that these GMs have to go through headquarters in Korea with every major decision they make, it was only recently that a portion of their policies were changed to allow for mass bot banning (although mostly gold bots and non-silk buyers) without the double checking of the Korean GMs. Also, with so little staff, it is extremely hard to comb every server regularly for botters.

Last time I checked and was told by MorningDew, there are no GMs in America. All GMs reside in Korea.

I was under the impression for a post in the sro official forums that they had 1 office located in seattle where they have a few gms. I could be wrong, but the point still stands because there is 1 staff dedicated to iSRO that must go through korea management.

In conclusion, bots will never disappear from iSRO, as it is the mule of all versions for profits.

It has little to do with profits. Bots are a problem in all games. They tend to be more of a problem in F2P games.

-Again your missing my point here, iSRO has the MOST problems with bots out of any other version of the game. This game is turning out to be more and more of a p2p game as well, joymax is no poor corporation.

GG will never be fully implemented, as it would completely destroy profits with their current perma ban policies.

GameGuard is fully implemented. Its not the best type of botting prevention though. If you've experienced other games that operate with GameGuard, you would know that most of them have a botting problem also.

-Fully implemented in the sense that it was tweaked specifically for new updates for iSRO bot and softmod. lets not forget what this topic is about, this reply is a reply directly to what the poster was asking.

The only real banning we will see is a few client botters, and mostly gold bots (and the logic is simple behind that: gold bots are the only bots that decrease profits).

There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. 1 gold bot = 1 player bot. Bots are all the same to me for the most part. If anything, gold bots should be the most important. Their the main cause of server traffic and the reason why sos and good gear is so expensive.

-I 100% agree, they are the major problem with the economy.

There is no hidden concept behind why gold bots are banned more often than player bots. They are easier to detect than player bots. Based on Joymax's current bot detection methods, all you have to do is be at your computer when a GM notifies you about botting. The bot can detect and notify you when a GM is near so its not hard to do other things and still make back to the game in time to say you are not botting.

-agree, i never said i disagree with that.

If joymax really cared, they would reinstate the degree bans for botting; first offense 4 week ban, second is a permanent ban.

Botters are already received a permanent ban. If you're referring to a IP ban, that wouldn't work out. It would cause more problems than any help it would do. Also, its not hard to connect back to the game with the numerous proxies available. The connection would probably be bad but it wouldn't matter to a botter. There not actually playing the game.

-No, I was saying that this type of ban would keep people on their accounts and encourage them not to quit the game. If joymax perma-bans all the client bots, then a good percentage wouldnt come back.

With this they wouldn't lose that much profit, as it would detour people from continuing to bot. The current policies just make people fed up, and encourage them to bot multiple chars from 1 to 80 because it will probably just get banned, or quit the game all together and never return.

The current policies do encourage people to do anything. Its the player's choice to bot.

-Huh? Your telling me that someone who had their char they had for a year banned wouldnt discourage them from botting again? Your DEAD wrong.

Thats what I like about the majority of player bots. They're the first to the cap and the first to quit.

Anyway, thats my rant for tonight, and its the solid 100% truth. This is how all corporations operate, you cannot deny it.

All corporations do not function that way. Without going into too much detail, it may necessary for a corporation to take a loss for a certain time frame and attempt to make up revenue later. For all we know, Joymax could be losing money.

-In the long run, yes, ALL MAJOR CORPORATIONS OPERATE FOR PROFIT

[desolator144]

Another overwhelming fact is that bots DO buy silk, more than half of them do contrary to popular belief.

that's completely not true. While I was stuck outside and ran from the Chakjis to the Black Robber Bowmen the long way cuz I had murderer, I ran across a few bots and absolutely 0 of them had pets. I'm very sure they don't buy tickets either since they're actually more expensive than pets per month by far and gold bots want gold, not leveling, so they'd buy pets first. Almost no bots buy silk ever except some rich actual player botting jerks. The real solution is for all you stupid rich bastards that buy silk from those chinese bastards to STOP DOING THAT! selling some ****ing elements, that worked great for me.
Btw if all the gold farmers were banned, people would have to actually go out and get gold and wanna buy pets to pick up gold and tickets to lvl and premium tickets and astrals to help alchemy to raise their equipment costs etc so their silk sales would go through the roof. I think the programmers just seriously suck that bad that they can't come up with a way to get rid of them all.

[bluey]

Another overwhelming fact is that bots DO buy silk, more than half of them do contrary to popular belief.

that's completely not true. While I was stuck outside and ran from the Chakjis to the Black Robber Bowmen the long way, I ran across a few bots and absolutely 0 of them had pets. I'm very sure they don't buy tickets either since they're actually more expensive than pets per month by far and gold bots want gold, not leveling, so they'd buy pets first. Almost no bots buy silk ever except some rich actual player botting jerks. The real solution is for all you stupid rich bastards that buy silk from those chinese bastards to STOP DOING THAT! selling some ****ing elements, that worked great for me.

I guess i should have stated that more than half of the "client" bots buy silk. I define clients as accounts that are people's mains. Dont forget that the majority of these botters arnt programmers, so they use iSRO bot which you have to pay to use. Even the multi-client you have to pay a fee to use per hour. buying some silk is just one more step.

[Gul]

The real solution is for all you stupid rich bastards that buy silk from those chinese bastards to STOP DOING THAT! selling some ****ing elements, that worked great for me

What the hell are you talking about?

[bluey]

Alright look at it this way, there are 3,000 players per server (this is now a fact for Athens, and im going to use it as an example because its the server i play on.) Around 1,200 botters were banned in the lass mass ban, that makes for over 1/3 of the server gone.

Now, anyone who plays on Athens knows that despite this number, a very very large amount of player botters remain, such as botting unions and guilds (Netwarriors being a PERFECT example). With this in mind, that adds up to around 70 to 80% who bot.

So....

I'll condense what I said down so everyone can understand my point. GG and other anti-bot measures will never be fully implemented on purpose as it will DECREASE PROFITS no matter how you look at it. Profits WILL go down, and your a moron if you think otherwise.

[EvilDiablo]

i dont know, u guys both make really good sense, im kinda leaning towards Da_Realest and Desolator on this one though, because as client bots buy silk, if they were to get rid of the bots, then more normal people would start to play the game and buy silk because they like it more than other games, so naturally, more people liking the game would = more profit, because normal players that buy silk buy alot more than botters do

[achmalach]

Alright look at it this way, there are 3,000 players per server (this is now a fact for Athens, and im going to use it as an example because its the server i play on.) Around 1,200 botters were banned in the lass mass ban, that makes for over 1/3 of the server gone.

Now, anyone who plays on Athens knows that despite this number, a very very large amount of player botters remain, such as botting unions and guilds (Netwarriors being a PERFECT example). With this in mind, that adds up to around 70 to 80% who bot.

So....

I'll condense what I said down so everyone can understand my point. GG and other anti-bot measures will never be fully implemented on purpose as it will DECREASE PROFITS no matter how you look at it. Profits WILL go down, and your a moron if you think otherwise.

If you need other examples:

* Hollywood (in fact the whole union with that zombie union image)
* Dragonneri (and most of the other guilds in that union)
...

On topic:
Do you really really mean they can solve this like that? So just a server side check that verifies what other processes are running? Is that not a violation of privacy in a way?

[ping_lo]

Alright look at it this way, there are 3,000 players per server (this is now a fact for Athens, and im going to use it as an example because its the server i play on.) Around 1,200 botters were banned in the lass mass ban, that makes for over 1/3 of the server gone.

Now, anyone who plays on Athens knows that despite this number, a very very large amount of player botters remain, such as botting unions and guilds (Netwarriors being a PERFECT example). With this in mind, that adds up to around 70 to 80% who bot.

So....

I'll condense what I said down so everyone can understand my point. GG and other anti-bot measures will never be fully implemented on purpose as it will DECREASE PROFITS no matter how you look at it. Profits WILL go down, and your a moron if you think otherwise.

If you need other examples:

* Hollywood (in fact the whole union with that zombie union image)
* Dragonneri (and most of the other guilds in that union)
...

On topic:
Do you really really mean they can solve this like that? So just a server side check that verifies what other processes are running? Is that not a violation of privacy in a way?

Depends. If they just spring it on you one day maybe. If they announce it ahead of time and have everyone re-download the client and in doing so agree to let them run this check then no. It does not mean you have to like it. But they can do it all they like. Hell Microsoft can change the terms of your windows license without ever consulting you.

[4-n-zics]

On topic:
Do you really really mean they can solve this like that? So just a server side check that verifies what other processes are running? Is that not a violation of privacy in a way?

It would really be no different than Microsoft's Windows Genuine Advantage check. You download and install a script that checks to see if your Windows is legitimate.

[PR0METHEUS]

There's well over 25 different ways to stop all botting permanently and they damn well know it.

There may be over 25 or over 100 ways to stop bots temporarily, or slow them down, but there's no way to stop them permanently. The only way to permantently stop botters is to pull the SRO servers off the network. Even then, a botter could break into Joymax's server room and attempt to log on locally. So really the only way is to turn OFF the server.

Claiming there's a way, or multiple ways, to permantently stop botters is like saying there are ways to permantently stop the spread of computer viruses, worms, and other malware. It will never happen.

[PR0METHEUS]

Also, to stop people from hexing the game, they can make it check the MD5 Hash of the system files when the game connects. They can then specify the correct hashes on a server side files, and match them up before allowing the connection.

And no, because it is not based around what the bot app is named, it is based around what the Dirapi specified name is, and that can't be bypassed as far as I know.

EDIT: Dirapi names can be change using hex editors on the specified application, but, then the botter won't be able to use the program because all the system files will point to the name of the app, and it won't exist.

MD5 hash checks wouldn't work too well. What if the legit user's SRO installation becomes corrupt? The SRO system files on their PC will become modified (perhaps by a virus infection) and they get banned. Maybe make the ban temporary at most.

[Da_Realest]

I don't understand what you don't understand. I'm saying 9/10 players are bots - which is perfectly plausible with 3000 people on the server.

Evidence or its not true.

It also depends as what you call a player. If you referring to gold bots as players also then the % might be around 40-50%. We're going to go and believe what rev6 said about the max server capacity for old servers was 3000 slots. After the big bot bans, about 1000+ botters were removed from the severs. Lets say that 90% of the gold bots were removed and about 20% of the player bots were banned. After the big bans, the servers were populated. Its pretty obvious what that means. There are more legit players than bots. Sure, some of them are stallers but I go ahead and say their are no more than 300 or 400 player bots(people who babysit) on the server. I'm pretty sure that is an overestimate. Their are more players in the Donwang area than the Hotan area. You would be amazed at how many people in Jangan and Donwang never even heard of a bot. I'll also add that only a small % of the Silkroad population reads forums so they really have know way of knowing without someone in game telling them what a bot is.

Even if what I said was true, it still would be wrong. If the max server capacity is 3000 for some servers, how many unique players log in or try to log in day? For all we know, there could be up to 5000 unique players(including bots) or more that play a server or attempt to play a server a day.

Whether or not this statement is true, the fact remains that if gamegaurd were fully utilized, half the population would disappear overnight.

Please link me to an official statement where it says GameGuard is not fully implemented.

I'm trying to also say here that there are more people who are NOT legit than you think, they are just babysitting their bots, i could name many many people too. They play the game just like every other legit player, they're respectful and nice, but they dont grind.

Maybe.

Are you joking? Yes, the gm department for isro joymax is understaffed. If this were not true, we would see much more presence in the game, and more bots being banned every week out of the 3000 player count per server. Bug updates are irrelevant, that is a must for the game to function, making it priority 1 when a problem arises.

Please provide evidence that they are understaffed. Simply saying we don't have much of a GM presence in game is just subjective. There are some players happy with the current amount of known GM presence and there are some players that don't know that GMs exist.

Bug updates are not irrelevant. They are most important. As you said yourself, they are need for the game to function.

I was under the impression for a post in the sro official forums that they had 1 office located in seattle where they have a few gms. I could be wrong, but the point still stands because there is 1 staff dedicated to iSRO that must go through korea management.

There are no GMs in America which means you can come to a conclusion that their are 2 staffs dedicated to the Internation version of Silkroad.

-Again your missing my point here, iSRO has the MOST problems with bots out of any other version of the game. This game is turning out to be more and more of a p2p game as well, joymax is no poor corporation.

Your evidence?

I've played kSRO, iSRO, and jSRO. I have friends that place vSRO and tSRO. Bots are major problem in all of those versions. Even much more of a problem than iSRO since the ratio of bots to players is much greater in other versions.

-Fully implemented in the sense that it was tweaked specifically for new updates for iSRO bot and softmod. lets not forget what this topic is about, this reply is a reply directly to what the poster was asking.

Please provide a source to a link that sells such a thing besides conspiracy theories.

-I 100% agree, they are the major problem with the economy.

I see..

-agree, i never said i disagree with that.

I see..

-No, I was saying that this type of ban would keep people on their accounts and encourage them not to quit the game. If joymax perma-bans all the client bots, then a good percentage wouldnt come back.

Its been proven that perma-bans never work. It may prevent Average Joe Bot from playing the game again but people will post on forums and such how to get around it. If these gold botting companies really are companies, this would only be a minor setback for them to work around.

-Huh? Your telling me that someone who had their char they had for a year banned wouldnt discourage them from botting again? Your DEAD wrong.

I'm dead wrong? Prove it. Your comment is purely subjective. If I remember correctly its a 100 year ban not a year ban. Besides, it doesn't matter how they are banned. To a botter its just another character to them since they aren't actually putting any hard work into it.

-In the long run, yes, ALL MAJOR CORPORATIONS OPERATE FOR PROFIT

"maximize profits while minimizing output" as you stated earlier means every corporation follows this method which is not true. As I stated earlier, it may be necessary to take a loss and attempt to make up revenue later.

And no, all major corporations do not operate for profit. I'm pretty sure you heard of non-profitable corporations.

[IceCrash]

dam dr, ur such an arguements hoe

[sloth24]

of corz its 9/10.
look around.
me from athens too.