Archer = Pure Strength Is The Only Way To Go!

[Tiptoe]

Lately, I've been reading a lot of archer guides and everybody says that 'Pure Strength' is the best way to go for an archer, but nobody really says why.

Well, I've tried experimenting with a Pure Str, Pure Int and a Hybrid archer. And now (like everybody else) I truly believe that Pure Strength is the best archer build. Why?

Well (apart from actually playing one) I found SuicideGrl's 'Damage Calculation Formula', and I've been doing a little experimenting with some figures.

According to the formula:

Code: Select all

(phys base dmg + [skill base dmg * skill dmg %]) * phys. balance % + ([mag base dmg + imbue dmg] * mag. balance %) = total dmg 

So using this formula, let's make a few assumptions.

We have 3 level 61 archers:

# A Pure Strength archer with a 98% physical balance and 45% magical balance (naked).

# A pure Intelligence archer with a 45% physical balance and 98% magical balance (naked).

# And a Hybrid archer with a 72% physical balance and 72% magical balance (naked).

They each have:

Level 60 Bow (regular) = 397~522 (phys) 636~835 (mag) damage
Level 60 Strong Bow Skill = 219~296 (350%) damage
Level 61 Fire Imbue = 266~446 (100%) damage

# The Pure Strength's base phys and mag attacks = approx 595 (phys) and 862 (mag) damage with weapon.

# The Pure Int's base phys and mag attacks = approx 544 (phys) and 927 (mag) damage with weapon.

# The Hybrid's base phys and mag attacks = approx 570 (phys) and 895(mag) damage with weapon.

My figures are probably a bit off here, because I simply added the weapons lowest physical and magical damage numbers to the characters base (naked) physical and magical damage numbers. So I believe the actual figures would be much higher than this. But this will do for the purposes of demonstration.

-------------------------------------------------

Now, down to the maths.

# The Pure Strength using a fire imbued strongbow skill:
(595 + [219 * 350%) * 98% + ([862 + 266] * 45%) = 1361 (phys) 507 (mag) = 1868 total damage

# The Pure Intelligence using a fire imbued strongbow skill:
(544 + (219 * 350%) * 45% + ([927 + 266] * 98%) = 589 (phys) 1169 (mag) = 1758 total damage

# The Hybrid using a fire imbued strongbow skill:
(570 + [219 * 350%) * 72% + ([895 + 266] * 72%) = 961 (phys) 835 (mag) = 1796 total damage

As you can see, the Pure Int does the lowest damage of all (remember, this is an archer, it's not supposed to use nukes). The Hybrid does a little more damage, and the Pure Strength does the best damage of all 3.

The Pure Strength also has the advantages of high physical defense and health points. So from this, I think that going Pure Int or Hybrid with a bow is a very bad idea. It may be fine with any other weapon choice, but for a bow, it looks like 'Pure Strength' is the only way to go!

Of course, all this is just theory, any high level Pure Int's or Hybrid archer's have any input? Am I completely wrong? What do you all think?

Cheers

[HertogJan]

Not to be an asshat or so, but i believe that was pretty obviously without calculations, seeing bows dont need the nukes. As they are allready ranged attackers, so i wonder why people would even bother making a int bow character

[Tiptoe]

Well, in theory, I think that most people believe that investing points into intelligence will improve the damage that their imbue does (which it does) but not enough in the bow's case to offset the loss of damage from your physical damage skills.

Still, I think lot's of Pure Int nuker's start off using a bow, then de-level their bow skills and just use their nukes when they get them.

[Kew]

one more thing, pure str does heavy crits

[klaus]

bow=crit
crit=only double the phy damage
bow=pure str
bow pure int=crap

[Vintar]

There is something wrong in your formulas.
The reinforce of the weapon * total int/str should be included.

And I don't know why, but it's sure, full int with ANY weapon skills + imbue does always higher regular damage than full str. About the double, a little less. But the crit is laughable ^^

It's like the damage multiplier (350% in your case) is applied to the magical damage of the weapon for full int.

[Tiptoe]

Vintar, math's is not my strong point . So if at all possible, could you give us an example of how you think the formula should be calculated.

I would really love to get this right, because I think this knowledge will really help folks to decide which is best.

Thanks a lot.

Edit: I just checked the stats on a level 60 snake bow. It has:

397~522 physical attack
636~835 magical attack
134~140 attack rating
100.3%~127.9% physical defense reinforce
160.5%~204.6% magical defense reinforce

The last numbers don't look like they have anything to do with the weapon's damage, they look like they increase your physical and magical defense (which seems a bit odd). Is this a typo? Should it say 'attack' reinforce instead?

If that's the case, then how would you calculate the new formula including these numbers?

Cheers

[Vintar]

I'd rather see something like :

Minimal damage for normal attack non imbued :
( phys_min_damage + STR * physical reinforce ) * phys balance

With imbue just add the same
( mag_weapon_min_damage + imbue_damage + INT * magical reinforce ) * mag balance

For a full str lvl 60 char (around 250 str naked and 80 int, estimated balances : 95 and 35)
regular hit without imbue :
min (397 + 250*100%) * 95% =~ 615 dmg
max (522 + 250*130%) * 95% =~ 805 dmg
(yes I round values a lot but i'm tired ^^ all calcs made 'on the fly')

Magical damages added by imbue (assuming fire book3 maxed : 266-446)
(636 + 266 + 80*160%) * 35% =~ 396 dmg
(835 + 446 + 80*205%) * 35% =~ 505 dmg

Range of damage for imbued regular shot : 615+396= 1011 to 805+505=1310

Anyway we don't know how defense reduce is calculated so it's hard to tell if it's right.
The point is, high int char with high magical balance will always hit harder.
For special attacks, I would just use the dmg multiplier (350%) on both damage stats of the weapon, but not reinforce.

Just my thoughts before going to bed :p

PS : I don't find where you found that is was 'def' reinforce on weapon. Nothing about this in game ^^

[ShizKnight]

The Phys balance on a Pure Int is higher than the Magical Balance on a Pure Str.

[Tiptoe]

Ah ha! Thanks heaps for that info. I'll have to do do some more experimenting and testing with this. In the end though, I think it's all going to boil down to what the highest balances a pure str and pure int can achieve (*sigh* more searching to do).

Oh, and I looked up the stats for the bow on sro.mmosite.

Again, thanks very much for everybody's help.

[doplertin]

this is an awesome thread

maths is so sexy!

um.. ok

1) the reason most people go pure int bow is because they mistakenly think that they can nuke with the bow. after all, when people say nukes and range skills and bow skills everyone thinks - ok! i shall make a bow int because then my arrow will carry the nuke! duh...

2) i think Suicidegrls formula really needs to be stickied.
(if it isnt already)

[treefigners]

I agree with the fact that a pure str archer will deal higher damage in one blow, but I created a pure int archer for a totally different reason. I think the pure int archer will level faster than any other character in the game, and so far this has proven true for me.

I use lightning, and use the bow (ctrl+click=awesome) to draw in groups of enemies, then when they're all nearby I nuke them. I'm killing groups of orange mobs in one or two hits, and although the total damage for a critical may be laughable, that is not the purpose of the pure int bow (at least for me) I think the attack rating benefits definitely help my character's nuke and the speed at which this character levels is really amazing. I am currently sp farming at 42 with a 9 lvl gap and I am getting (with gold ticket) 1000+sp per hour at the bunwhangs.

For total damage I would definitely use the spear, but for leveling, I don't think anyone can touch my archer.

[ShizKnight]

Ah ha! Thanks heaps for that info. I'll have to do do some more experimenting and testing with this. In the end though, I think it's all going to boil down to what the highest balances a pure str and pure int can achieve (*sigh* more searching to do).

Oh, and I looked up the stats for the bow on sro.mmosite.

Again, thanks very much for everybody's help.

A STR character gets a higher balance in the end, with the same amount of +STR as the INT character has +INT, I think. But either way, a Pure Int will ALWAYS outdamage a Pure Str.

[Skitsefrenik]

I agree with the fact that a pure str archer will deal higher damage in one blow, but I created a pure int archer for a totally different reason. I think the pure int archer will level faster.

yes it may lvl faster but what are u going to do after u lvl...ur basically going to be a slow nuker. nukers might now have alot of hp but their nukes are faster then bow attacks. so techinally its not that good of a build.

[Ryoko]

Amongst all the numbers and logic, you forgot the common sense!

A nuker spear levels fastest and does most damage.

A nuker sword has higher def and block from shield.

A nuker bow has neither.

[Devotia]

I agree with you, but I'll do the math with a little more accurate numbers.

Assuming SG's formula is right, (which I don't think, but that'sneither here nor there), and that the str/int for pures is 71/244 and 157/158 for the brid...

# The Pure Strength using a fire imbued strongbow skill
2310-3124, crit 4148-5540
# The Pure Intelligence using a fire imbued strongbow skill
2106-2791, crit 2786-3713
# The Hybrid using a fire imbued strongbow skill:
2135-2907, crit 3340-4531

Admittedly, these numbers are very skewed towards showing str's usefulness. Mainly because of the balances: A pure str wouldn't have as high a total balance as a pure int. A pure int would probably run a little higher than 143, a brid about that, and a pure str a bit lower. This would lower the str's damage and raise the int's damage. So the pure would do about as much as the hybrid on a normal hit, having less hp and much lower crits. The pure str, due to the 350% modifier, would still do the most damage, but not as much, the highest crits, and the most hp.

[Ice_Warrior]

wow guys ur dmg calc is kidna off, i made a pure int adn pure str bow to test, but pure int did alot mre dmg den str if no crit. Hybrid = decent dmg + decent crit upto u guys really str btter against ints.

[tedtwilliger]

I was looking in this thread, and i noticed a flaw in the calculations. Sure this thread is old and may not ever be looked upon again, i thought it to be my duty to point out these mistakes.

Now, after using the SRO character builder, i made a lvl 61 pure intl and a lvl 61 pure str. And their balanes are as follows.


Pure str- 97% phy and 29% mag

Pure intl 52& phy 95% mag.

Now, this is greatly different from the data shown above. The data above sais:

A Pure Strength archer with a 98% physical balance and 45% magical balance (naked).

and

A pure Intelligence archer with a 45% physical balance and 98% magical balance (naked).

Now where they got this data i have no idea.

But this equates for the figures being wrong. These new figures would affect the characters base phys and mag attacks, but for now i will ignore that (because i am not sure how to correctly calculate base magic damage)

Ok now lets re do this formula.

Code: Select all

(phys base dmg + [skill base dmg * skill dmg %]) * phys. balance % + ([mag base dmg + imbue dmg] * mag. balance %) = total dmg 

So lets sub in again.

1st up, the pure str

(595 + [219 * 350%]) * 97% + ([862 + 266] * 29%) = 1320.655 (phys) 327.12(mag) = 1647.775 total damage

Now that is much lower than the previous 1868 damage as said before. Now i know my data for this isnt complete. I didn't alter the base phys and mag attacks (because i do not know how to accurately calculate these). But what this means is in short terms it does less damage (which is what i hypothesized).

Now to calculate the pure intl

(544 + [219 * 350%]) * 52% + ([927 + 266] * 95%) = 681.46(phys) 1133.35 (mag) = 1814.81 total damage

Now by my new calculations it shows the pure intl doing even more damage as i thought before i did these calculations.

I choose not to do the hybrids damage because frankly, im lazy

Though if someone can tell me an accurate way to determine base phy and base mag damage, then i will re do all of his formulas, also add in the 2:1 and 1:2 hybrids, add in the 70:70 hybrid. I will also do some experiments to find out what class does the most damage over all (based on this formula).

Also if anyone can find errors in my calculations please tell me... it was a long time before someone (me) found this guys errors.


PLEASE NOTE: I know this thread is old. I dont know if there have been any other threads saying whether or not these formulas have been corrected. I am going off this thread alone and i am res-erecting this thread as i would LOVE to play around with this (as i take great interest in mathematical applications) ..... yet i never seem to be able to do my math hmw... which i am suppose to be doing now

[IguanaRampage]

balances are way off what would really happen.
Dmg-wise int > str except for crit. Always.
EDIT: last guy is right. Though I do like str bow the best, or heavily str-based.

[slurp]

# A Pure Strength archer with a 98% physical balance and 45% magical balance (naked).

# A pure Intelligence archer with a 45% physical balance and 98% magical balance (naked).

# And a Hybrid archer with a 72% physical balance and 72% magical balance (naked).

Pure str would have about 96-97% phy, 30% or less mag
Pure int would have about 94-96% mag, 50% or more phy
Not sure about hybrids.

[DS^]

nice thread

but can someone also calculate 2:1 str hybrids ?

[Hasbin]

Something is definatly wrong with ur ways of calculations.
U cant add that 219*350%, as u have no proof how the phy attack on attack works.
The 219 could be added to the Phy attack in stats:
e.g if u have 1000-1200 in stats i could be= 1219-1419 and that X 350%.
And wtf? Why dont u multiply the mag dmg with 350% Cuz the 350% has effect on the mag stats too if u use a % skill.
With strong bow i do ~8k on a manyang without imbue and ~22k with it.

My Hybrid archer (2:1 int) does WAY more dmg without non crit arrows, any attack. And the crits are about the same. But the hp is not .
I mean my anti devil (250%) non crit = pure str SB (350%).

[Miletus]

your wrong i think ur calculations are wrong man

too lazy to find the thread where i saw it it was a thread called str vs hybrid archer or something by hasbin? not sure
and how the hell does a pure str do more dmg than a pure int?

str = low dmg
int = lots of dmg

[Rainigul]

Your numbers and values are totally made up, but yeah, pure strength is the way to go as an archer.

# A Pure Strength archer with a 98% physical balance and 45% magical balance (naked).

# A pure Intelligence archer with a 45% physical balance and 98% magical balance (naked).

# And a Hybrid archer with a 72% physical balance and 72% magical balance (naked).

Pure str would have about 96-97% phy, 30% or less mag
Pure int would have about 94-96% mag, 50% or more phy
Not sure about hybrids.

Hybrids would be 69% mag, 70% phys or the other way around.

[tomiotar]

Something is definatly wrong with ur ways of calculations.
U cant add that 219*350%, as u have no proof how the phy attack on attack works.
The 219 could be added to the Phy attack in stats:
e.g if u have 1000-1200 in stats i could be= 1219-1419 and that X 350%.
And wtf? Why dont u multiply the mag dmg with 350% Cuz the 350% has effect on the mag stats too if u use a % skill.
With strong bow i do ~8k on a manyang without imbue and ~22k with it.

My Hybrid archer (2:1 int) does WAY more dmg without non crit arrows, any attack. And the crits are about the same. But the hp is not .
I mean my anti devil (250%) non crit = pure str SB (350%).

Hasbin, dont worry.

Remember that here it will be always consider the increment of the regular damage is almost unnoticeable:



(Notice his bar life and how much it goes down with 1 hit)

and our crits are low:



(Notice how much his lifes goes down and how much my zerk bar goes down. An hybrid archer dont need have always crit to do high damage.)

71 and waiting to change my bow to start to one hit those mobs (I can do it already with a crit).

[borat2]

tomiotar big thumb up for you
waiting on your results when you hit 80.

[IguanaRampage]

Well good luck 1-hitting yachas but you'll need some good gear to do that and not be killed.

[bakafish]

HOLY F**K Time to make a new char

[NuclearSilo]

The formula is wrong, the balance is wrong => the result is wrong.

Using search function, u could find in this forum a correct formula of damage.
Many proofs show that hybrid bow deal more damage either with critical and normal shot.
----> Refer to the debate of Jadekiss

[Tasdik]

Has anyone ever tried the 5:1 hybrid str build.....of course this is for every two lvls of stat points
I'm trying it sorta I have a lvl 10 char but my main is a galvie so I'll never play with him much.....anyone else want to try it?