Hybrid bow crit vs. Str bow crit

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:10 am

Not discussing with u anymore, u keep saying the same things lol. Very Happy
And yes i sacrified hp, but still got (will have, see my sig:going 70:70) enough hp to survive 1 or 2 nukes if im in garments, and survive a crit or 2 of a glavier. After that ill start running, no need to stand and tank. Use the almighty grass walk to give me sec more to pot and go ranged again.
And i know u are gonna say, the opponent will use grass walk too, but he cant predict where im going. So ill have a 1 sec head start.
Remember the song: If at first u dont succeed, dust urself off and try again. Very Happy
And i u are so in Love with tanking, blader would fit u very good.

And for the 3rd time im not planning on going 1vs1 too much.

And look at liquidsmooth for the str hybrid crit, thats ur proof.

Now stop saying all the things u said once again, i understand ur point of view. Pure str is awsome. Now try to understand my view.

How are you going to run when your KDed or stunned? Pure str bow will have enough HP to survive and run to pot it off. You on the other hand will be dead after a crit.

darklink105 · Post by **darklink105** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:23 am

but he can inflict more damage to help in guild and job wars if he can stay back is all he's really meant for. every build shouldnt be taken into the aspect of 1v1 bow builds can easily survive in a cooperative guild who knows what they're doing. all he's just tryin to say is that a hybrid can crit as much as a pure str with shitty items. XD

Hasbin · Post by **Hasbin** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:48 am

NuclearSilo wrote:Whatever u say, 5.4k HP at that lvl is not enough HP to survive during 1vs1.
Want i tell u about my char
Lv 62, sword+4, 5.2k HP, phy def 555, mag def 947, shield br 17. And still have hard time against other build.
glaiver weapon+5 ---> soul + chain + ghost spear = death
bow str ---> pot fight
blader ----> pot fight
hybrid spear ---> this guy is as strong as glaiver+5, but die if i KD
sword fully pimped gear ---> nuke me 4.0k dmg, but take around 4 nukes to kill me.

So, i wonder how can a weak defense bow can fight in this situation. I doubt u can kill that glaiver in 2 skills even if u use bow+5
(power bow+5 = glaive +2)

Dont take me as an example, i have shitty gear. And my build is not finished yet.

And for the rest of u, go to my best friend jadekiss' thread if u wanna discuss hybrid bows. Just wanted to show my crits are as dangerous as a pure str's crit.

@darklink105 ur a wise man

NuclearSilo · Post by **NuclearSilo** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Just wanted to show my crits are as dangerous as a pure str's crit.

On...Mangyang
Compare your crit on Power Earth Ghost in cave. Im sure your phy damage on it is like 200 and double of it is 400 => 200 more dmg on crit lol
Test also on player. Because u wear armor, so test with someone who wear garment, and see who has better crit.

Or u dont dare to try?

Hasbin · Post by **Hasbin** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:21 pm

NuclearSilo wrote:
Just wanted to show my crits are as dangerous as a pure str's crit.

On...Mangyang
Compare your crit on Power Earth Ghost in cave. Im sure your phy damage on it is like 200 and double of it is 400 => 200 more dmg on crit lol
Test also on player. Because u wear armor, so test with someone who wear garment, and see who has better crit.

Or u dont dare to try?

I 2-3 hit PEGS FYI. And i asure u my phy on PEGS isnt just 200.
I 1 hit crit SB yetis, 1 hit crit Shakram sometimes...

And Manyang is the most neutral monster in SRO.

Nenhunter · Post by **Nenhunter** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:40 pm

NuclearSilo wrote:
Just wanted to show my crits are as dangerous as a pure str's crit.

On...Mangyang
Compare your crit on Power Earth Ghost in cave. Im sure your phy damage on it is like 200 and double of it is 400 => 200 more dmg on crit lol
Test also on player. Because u wear armor, so test with someone who wear garment, and see who has better crit.

Or u dont dare to try?

well, if he were to go test on someone with garms, shouldn't a pure str bow test on someone wearing armor?

NuclearSilo · Post by **NuclearSilo** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:50 pm

Hasbin wrote:
NuclearSilo wrote:
Just wanted to show my crits are as dangerous as a pure str's crit.

On...Mangyang
Compare your crit on Power Earth Ghost in cave. Im sure your phy damage on it is like 200 and double of it is 400 => 200 more dmg on crit lol
Test also on player. Because u wear armor, so test with someone who wear garment, and see who has better crit.

Or u dont dare to try?

I 2-3 hit PEGS FYI. And i asure u my phy on PEGS isnt just 200.
I 1 hit crit SB yetis, 1 hit crit Shakram sometimes...

And Manyang is the most neutral monster in SRO.

Show me SS.
No pics = no proof
Tell your friend pure str to post SS too

liquidsmooth · Post by **liquidsmooth** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:04 am

Dude they'll come up with anything prove that full str. bowers crit harder. Even after I posted screen shots and nobody could post anything similar. I just got fed up and closed the topic.

Ell wrote:
Not discussing with u anymore, u keep saying the same things lol. Very Happy
And yes i sacrified hp, but still got (will have, see my sig:going 70:70) enough hp to survive 1 or 2 nukes if im in garments, and survive a crit or 2 of a glavier. After that ill start running, no need to stand and tank. Use the almighty grass walk to give me sec more to pot and go ranged again.
And i know u are gonna say, the opponent will use grass walk too, but he cant predict where im going. So ill have a 1 sec head start.
Remember the song: If at first u dont succeed, dust urself off and try again. Very Happy
And i u are so in Love with tanking, blader would fit u very good.

And for the 3rd time im not planning on going 1vs1 too much.

And look at liquidsmooth for the str hybrid crit, thats ur proof.

Now stop saying all the things u said once again, i understand ur point of view. Pure str is awsome. Now try to understand my view.

How are you going to run when your KDed or stunned? Pure str bow will have enough HP to survive and run to pot it off. You on the other hand will be dead after a crit.

Funny I never died after 1 crit and i'm hybrid.

And lastly to da_realist. The full str bower is not meant to be a tanker. There is no debate.

HertogJan · Post by **HertogJan** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:15 am

I am not his friend, I posted a pic and it got used.
I am now lvled and have a 64+7 bow, but still overal shitty gear. I will go out and crit on several mobs. I am still 100% str. with a 105% physical balance.

BRRRRB

Crit on a yeti:

Crit on a manygan or soemthing:

MrFudge · Post by **MrFudge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:50 am

haha sirlucius those are some interesting globals... :roll:

taintofsleep · Post by **taintofsleep** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:53 am

wow, nice ss's, let's see some hybrid str bowers ss's now.

EllisD · Post by **EllisD** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:22 pm

I have 2 entries in the highest damage contest. If thats whats being measured, it should be taken there.

65 with 9 gap and sos bow (similar to liquid)
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/E ... Damage.jpg

69 with a 0 gap (so i could get devil arrow) is linked on the first page of the contest.

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:37 pm

liquidsmooth wrote:Funny I never died after 1 crit and i'm hybrid.

Because there's a difference between being a hybrid with 5.4k hp and one with 10k+ hp. His hybrid will most likely die after one critical.

liquidsmooth wrote:And lastly to da_realist. The full str bower is not meant to be a tanker. There is no debate.

Thats incorrect. All Chinese strength characters are meant to tank. The Chinese strength characters are one man armies. If you want teamwork, wait for Europe and go crossbow. Chinese characters are made so that they can do well alone.

Pure str blade or hybrid str: Block passive, shield, castle shield series, and kd. Excellent tankers

Pure str glaive or hybrid str: Knock back, stun, hp passive, and the bloody fan storm series. Not the best tankers but still can tank.

Pure str bow or hybrid str: High criticals....... Not much of a tanker at the moment.

This will change though since Joymax has realized they made a mistake with Pacheon so now archers will be able to stun and knock back. This means that archers will also be able to tank. The point at how much you should be able to tank may vary but the point is, all strength based Chinese characters are meant to tank.

Anyway, back to Hasbin. Your bow will be able to critical harder than a pure str, but you've lost so much hp that you're not much of a threat. 'll quote what tomiotar said.

tomiotar wrote:A really interesting point about that is the critical tendence. As you can see there is a minimum value for critical so you can have better crit adding int . That happen basically because you reach a moment when every point that you add to int increase the mag attack more than double the phys attack. Im sure that if we add the defence on the formula we will find that the minimum will be different on every target that we hit.

I've tested it, and it comes out to be true. This is in part because 1% int is greater than 1% str in terms of power. I'm not sure by how much, but thats why its easier to raise your int balance than str balance. Int is somewhere around 1.5% compared to 1% str. Recall the damage formula:

mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent

total_damage_output = phy_damage * phy_balance + mag_damage * mag_balance

As you can see, your skill damage % is also factored into the mag damage calculation. I'm pretty sure you can see what that means...

As for tomiotar's graph, I'm going to use Liquidsmooth's build as an example since it seems to be the closes to the perfect balance. At lvl 80 Liquidsmooth's build should have 160 int points. Which means he/she would have added 61 int points. I'm going to assume that tomiotar's graph is accurate.

If you look at the graph, you will see that a pure str will critical for about 7700 and have 16k hp at level 80. Liquidsmooth's build will critical for about 8100 and have 13k hp at level 80. A 70:69 will critical for about 8200 but will only have 9k hp. I'm pretty sure its pretty obvious what that means...

As you level up, the difference will become more apparent. At low levels, it may only a few hundreds in the difference in damage. At higher levels it could possibly become 4k to maybe even a 6k difference in power depending on how close you are to the perfect balance. By perfect balance, I mean that the hp that you sacrificed doesn't hinder your ability to tank because the hp that you sacrificed for the increase in damage makes up more than enough for it.

With that said, with the perfect balance, a blader could actually be able to tank and kill easier in 1v1....

A glaiver could become even more lethal in 1v1.....

A archer wouldn't have such a hard time beating a pure str in 1v1.....

The only downside is, if you get in a group fight, you wouldn't be able to tank as well as your pure str counterparts.

I could go on and try and calculate the perfect balance, but I think I've done enough work for now. Also, hopefully I didn't make a mistake somewhere and all of this just turns out to be false. lol

Post by **Stress** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:05 pm

@hasbin
Read the post carefully, in order to understand what I mean.

IMO, full STR bows can't tank much at the moment. When the skill update comes, bows will be able to tank almost as much as glaivers.
Hybrid STR criticals are almost as dangerous as full STR crits, but in order to crit harder then a full STR, hybrid STR loses a lot of HP compared to full STR bow.
The damage gain is insufficient to compensate for the loss of SP.

Coming back on topics.
In one of the threads here in GD, I have shown, that purely by the stats, bows are hypothetically "hybrid weapons"

The thing we need to settle on now is the following notation:
Let's divide every weapon's magical damage by it's physical damage, and see what we obtain. We will consider plain degree 7 NPC weapons. We will choose the upper limit of the damage; but choosing the lower one does not affect the result.

Blades and Glaives are considered STR weapons, therefore, the result of the division between mag. attack and phy. attack should be small.
For a blade: 572/387 = 1.47
For a glaive: 630/433 = 1,45
Conclusively, the glaive has the most dominant physical character of all weapons

Now, let's consider the INT weapons: the sword and the spear:
For a sword: 620/357 = 1,73
For a spear: 693/394 = 1,75
So the spear is the most INT-dominant weapon.

Now let's check out the bow: 629/393 = precisely 1,6
It's interesting to note, that: (1,47 + 1,73) / 2 = 1,6 and (1,45 + 1,75) / 2 = 1,6

Even with this proven, I can state the following:

1)Full STR bows are the way to go for PvP. Keep in mind that bows rely heavily on crits to win in PvP.
2)Because of the distinctive stats and qualities of the bow, hybrid bows are great at killing uniques.

liquidsmooth · Post by **liquidsmooth** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:52 pm

Here are some random screenshots you bowers can use to compare for yourselfs. Take what you want out of it.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1338 ... 423vk8.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9003 ... 883rk9.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5538 ... 709md8.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9580 ... 455za6.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6660 ... 455gm2.jpg

Quoted from another topic.

With his sos+3 bow this is his mag and phy damage:
Phy damage: 1633~1979
Mag damage: 1231~1586

Liquidsmooth's phy and mag damage when his/her sos+5 bow is equipped:
Phy damage: 1525~1833
Mag damage: 1391~1668

I don't know what level his imbue was but I don't think that give him about 4 or 5k more damage to equal your damage. Depending on your balance, I guess it is possible for a str hybrid to critical harder than a pure str bow.

Thank you for admitting that. Too bad you didn't come clean before the topic was closed. I did what's posted in that ss above and her highest was like 31k. We had equivalant bows. Again i'm glad you posted that, it shows that hybrid can be just as deadly as anything else.
Well here:

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 628zp9.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9580 ... 455za6.jpg\

Here's 2 quick videos of mine. One is of me vs a full str glaver with sos +7 and the other one is just of me randomly running around showing you the dmg of my bow vs people with equivalent gear/degree on. Take what you want out of them!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2AMXkgozwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOT7OOJvCsI

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:01 am

liquidsmooth wrote:Thank you for admitting that. Too bad you didn't come clean before the topic was closed. I did what's posted in that ss above and her highest was like 31k. We had equivalant bows. Again i'm glad you posted that, it shows that hybrid can be just as deadly as anything else.

You're welcome.

You make it seem as though I was lying the whole time. lol A screen shot doesn't prove much if you have nothing to compare it to, so there was no reason for me or anyone else to believe you. Its hard to find a pure str with a bow near equal to yours. I forgot that I had a friend with an sos+3 bow, so I asked him could I take some ss of his criticals.

Also, there was no reason for you to have edited all your post. I purposely edited my post about an hour or more before you even posted so people and you wouldn't jump to conclusions. Thats why I posted the line, "EDIT:Posting SS of a sos+3 crit right now." so people would wait until I got done getting the results. I didn't want anyone to make a final judgment on my post yet.

Anyway, I forgot to mention that he was using strong bow vision level 1. If you also were using level 1 also, then that seals the deal. If not, can you post a ss of a critical on anti devil bow steel since he actually has that leveled up.

Hasbin · Post by **Hasbin** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:20 am

*Stops posting*

This topic is gonna be an endless topic.
And for those who say i lack hp, my build isnt finished yet (going 70:70-> 10k-11k hp with good alchemy at 80//I can take hits, im not made of paper). And bow has 22.2m range (18m +4.4m from buff), use it every single shot :wink:

.
I, myself havent even tried pvping after 60 . But i tried it at 56, when i had 4k hp. And i didnt even try to tank a single hit from a glavier, id just run, everytime he got close and possibly gave me a hit (which i had to tank). Do not underestimate my running capability . This kind of lame pvping gets endless tough. But guess what? Ive made this bower for guild wars, Hunter/thief (if u cant kill run forest,run) and last but not least BOSSES. NOT for 1vs1.
I know my build's limitation. (< hint @Da_Realest, stop commenting)

@the guy with the ss with the 64+7(+7 omg) bow, ull have to wait for my dmg. Gonna 9 gap as soon as i hit 64 (my skills are too far behind)

@that shitty hp table. Alchemy (hp +str) gives a hyrbid more hp % wise, go check it out in the character builder. Make a pure str, add 1200hp +55str, and check the gain % wise. And do it for example on a 70:70 hybrid. So dont talk that heavily about the lacking of hp.
>>> that table wont have that much of a constant slope on hp
With perfect alchemy:
Pure str gains 23.8% of his hp. While 70:70 for example gains 40.6% of his hp. Thats why hybrids depend on alchemy.

Pure str:16060hp -> 19889 23.8% gain of total
70:70 Hybrid: 9386-> 13197 40.6%gain of total hp

If u want more numbers PureStrHp/HybridHp unalchemy'd: 1.71
With perfect alchemy: 1.5

Conclusions: Alchemy can do wonders! Hybrids love alchemy! Windows Calculator FTW!

*Da_Realest post w/e u want, i dont care; i :love:

my archer*

liquidsmooth · Post by **liquidsmooth** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:36 am

It won't be an endless topic really. Since the debate between hybrid-str vs str crit damage is over. Maybe now it will be hybrid str vs 70:70 XD. I'm pumped to see the 70:70 though. I am also a hybrid bow but in a different form. Post of some of your build in action!

NuclearSilo · Post by **NuclearSilo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:56 am

But in pvp, ppl wear mostly garment, so pure str crit harder due to low phy defense of garment, while 80:80 build is mostly int build

MrFudge · Post by **MrFudge** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:01 am

ok so someone tell me who has the strongest crit cuz i dont feel like reading 500 lines of bitching. thanks.

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:30 am

Hasbin wrote:I know my build's limitation. (< hint @Da_Realest, stop commenting)

Obviously you don't know its limitations and no I will not stop posting.

Hasbin wrote:@that shitty hp table. Alchemy (hp +str) gives a hyrbid more hp % wise, go check it out in the character builder. Make a pure str, add 1200hp +55str, and check the gain % wise. And do it for example on a 70:70 hybrid. So dont talk that heavily about the lacking of hp.
>>> that table wont have that much of a constant slope on hp
With perfect alchemy:
Pure str gains 23.8% of his hp. While 70:70 for example gains 40.6% of his hp. Thats why hybrids depend on alchemy.

Pure str:16060hp -> 19889 23.8% gain of total
70:70 Hybrid: 9386-> 13197 40.6%gain of total hp

Sorry, the graph isn't wrong. You're just in denial and don't to find out that you build is not what you think it is. There is no need to put in alchemy calculations into the graph because anyone can do alchemy. If you can get perfect alchemy, anyone else can too. The % increase is irrelevant since they still have more hp than you

Do you know anything about testing? How you conduct experiments? How you set out to prove something? What do you not comprehend?

Example:
I have 2 bags of popcorn.
Bag 1 taste better than bag 2.
Bag 2 adds more butter so now it taste better than bag 1.
Bag 1 adds the same amount of butter as bag 2 and now it taste better than bag 2 again.

So what did that solve? Nothing. You're back at the beginning. Bag 1 still taste better than bag 2. So there was no point in adding more butter when bag 1 could do the same. Do you understand now? Or is it still too complex for you to grasp?

The outcome will always be the same. A critical from a pure str or hybrid bow will kill you or nearly kill you. They will only need to use another skill to finish you off if you don't die. A blader will have 20k hp because of his shield. A glaive will have about 22k because of his passive. A pure str bow or hybrid str bow will kill you before you kill them because they have the necessary amount of hp.

A friend of mine(pure str bow) fought a same level 80:80 bow that had a +7 bow. It was no contest for the pure str. He easily killed the 80:80 bow. 5 times in fact. A critical on anti devil bow followed by demon arrow an he was dead. If the pure str didn't crit, all it took was a hit from strongbow to kill him.

I know thats a big shock to you, and you probably won't believe me. Doesn't really matter though. Its the truth. I have no reason to lie. When Liquidsmooth said his/her build criticals harder than a pure str, I did the test and calculations to prove it, and it turned out to be true. And I admitted that.

I'm not going to stop posting just because you told me not to. There are other people reading that want to know the truth also. This topic is much bigger than you and I.

NuclearSilo wrote:But in pvp, ppl wear mostly garment, so pure str crit harder due to low phy defense of garment, while 80:80 build is mostly int build

Thanks for mentioning that. I forgot about that. Just about all pure str wear garment so most of the extra damage that a 70:70 does will be gone. They will critical harder on pure strs in armor, but not much if not at all, harder than a pure str.

MrFudge wrote:ok so someone tell me who has the strongest crit cuz i dont feel like reading 500 lines of bitching. thanks.

Hybrid strength. I suggest a build that has around 86-90% str naked so you can still tank hits and criticals. 90% would be the safest.

Hasbin · Post by **Hasbin** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:03 am

Da_Realest wrote:[color=green]Sorry, the graph isn't wrong. You're just in denial and don't to find out that you build is not what you think it is. There is no need to put in alchemy calculations into the graph because anyone can do alchemy. If you can get perfect alchemy, anyone else can too. The % increase is irrelevant since they still have more hp than you

Do you know anything about testing? How you conduct experiments? How you set out to prove something? What do you not comprehend?

Example:
I have 2 bags of popcorn.
Bag 1 taste better than bag 2.
Bag 2 adds more butter so now it taste better than bag 1.
Bag 1 adds the same amount of butter as bag 2 and now it taste better than bag 2 again.

WTH are u talking about freaking popcorns

. My point here is. There is 6.6k hp difference between that too.
Let me give u an extreme example:
If 1 had 10k and the other 3.4k, it would matter much.
But if one had 100k and the other 93.4k. Than the 6k wouldnt matter that much. GOT IT? Dont talk about food anymore.
Dont give me food, give me numbers.
I gave the ratios w/ alchemy and w/o. If u dont understand them, not my fault.

If u really think this build is made of paper, and will die like nothing:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1K888BgiyZo

Post by **Stress** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:15 am

Please note that in the video, nothing is said about the other archer.
It is useless to say, that he could have bad gear. To achieve 80-80 balance, the gear must be very good. A full STR bow with that kind of gear shoots to 105% phys balance, thus creating an insane crit.
Remember, Gear>Build (sadly)
As long as nothing is said about the other bow, the video is irrelevant.

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:04 pm

Hasbin wrote:WTH are u talking about freaking popcorns Dont give me food, give me numbers.

I gave you food because you seem to didn't understand the numbers I gave you.

Hasbin wrote:I gave the ratios w/ alchemy and w/o. If u dont understand them, not my fault.

I do, you just understand thats irrelevant if they have the same gear.

Hasbin wrote:If u really think this build is made of paper, and will die like nothing:

I don't think your build is made out of paper. It will proabably do well against int characters since you have alot of int in your balance. It will not do well against pure str and str hybrids.

Tiglari51 explained why that video doesn't mean much. Thats why its good to fight multiple people so you can experience people with different gear.

The difference between you and me is, you talk with theories. I talk with experience. Your build may look good on paper but when it comes to actually experiencing it in action, its not the same. I seen 80:80 bows do well against int characters. I also seen them do poorly against pure str and hybrid characters. I seen pure str and str hybrids do well against both str and int characters. If you want me to prove how well pure str bow can do, here is a video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4a1emVqZyaE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KmykmjeWSIc

Also, I have made a 70:70 glaive before. Even with stun and knock back, I still died.

Jodrion · Post by **Jodrion** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:24 pm

IMO, bow should only be used by pures if and only if you want to level fast up until lvl 3x which is when you dont need bow for ranged damage.
If bow is your main build, you should be Hybrid, since there is only one kind of bow, I suggest 80:80 Hybrid or 2:1 Str Hybrid for bow users.

NuclearSilo · Post by **NuclearSilo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:23 pm

Well, bow is good against int spear and glaiver only, against a good defense class like blader or sword hybrid wont win (shield technique & critical parry)

It's all about gear after all.

Miletus · Post by **Miletus** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:04 pm

well pure str archer against a glavie with same eq will lose, just because the glavie stats are a bit higher than the bow and glavie have stun, and bow has crit increase on antidevil, we all know phys dmg does least dmg number wise, so logically an archer need a perfect balance of dmg/hp enough dmg to kill them and enough hp to tank. hey da_realest u wanna do some more math :p ive been thinking about a hybrid build wanna see some numbers, i would do it my self but i dont really understand ur graph.

lvl 80 - 88%/42% balance, exactly 48 int added should be 13765 hp = dmg?

and the perfect balace is probably 42 - 55 Int at lvl 80(some where between a 3:1 and 4:1 str archer) , since not every 1 has the same eq the balance doesnt really have to be exact.

any other build will have too little hp IMO or too much str and not enough constant dmg to kill in pvp

and doing higher dmg(in 1 shot) is not a vaild reason for a good build, becuase it depend on so many other things, like a pure int spear can brag about doing like 80k dmg or something but still get owned, cuz of little hp. IMO hybrid is probably the best way to go for any build, but since theres alchemy ppl can add int/str , then their just as good as the guy higher lvl pure.

downfall.hex · Post by **downfall.hex** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:07 pm

pure str bow is crazy.

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:29 pm

Miletus wrote:well pure str archer against a glavie with same eq will lose, just because the glavie stats are a bit higher than the bow and glavie have stun, and bow has crit increase on antidevil, we all know phys dmg does least dmg number wise, so logically an archer need a perfect balance of dmg/hp enough dmg to kill them and enough hp to tank. hey da_realest u wanna do some more math :p ive been thinking about a hybrid build wanna see some numbers, i would do it my self but i dont really understand ur graph.

Also remember, just about all pure str at the cap wear garment. Any extra points you have in int possibly wouldn't be much help. To little int, and you will do weaker damage than a pure str bow. To much int, and you will die faster than a pure str bow without having time to do much damage.

A pure str bow will critical harder on a pure str in garment. A hybrid str bow will critical harder on a pure str in armor. A hybrid str bow may also critical harder than a pure str bow against a pure str in protector, depending on how many int points the hybrid str bow added.

On something like a manyang, a hybrid str will critical harder.

Miletus wrote:lvl 80 - 88%/42% balance, exactly 48 int added should be 13765 hp = dmg?

Thats correct. So, if you look at the bottom portion of the graph where it says add int points, you added 48. So you go straight up and look at the red line, then look to the right and you will see that its around 13k hp. Seems pretty accurate.

Miletus wrote:and the perfect balace is probably 42 - 55 Int at lvl 80(some where between a 3:1 and 4:1 str archer) , since not every 1 has the same eq the balance doesnt really have to be exact.

Seems fair to me. Although, for the moment, I'm playing it safe with my bow build. I'm 93% str. I do a bit more damage to opponents in armor than in garment. I may go to 90% str or 89% later.

So far, PvP is going pretty good. Haven't loss to anyone my level with equal or near equal gear. If they're pure str and are 1 or 2 levels higher than me, I lose most of the time.

Miletus wrote:any other build will have too little hp IMO or too much str and not enough constant dmg to kill in pvp

I also agree.

Miletus wrote:and doing higher dmg(in 1 shot) is not a vaild reason for a good build, becuase it depend on so many other things, like a pure int spear can brag about doing like 80k dmg or something but still get owned, cuz of little hp. IMO hybrid is probably the best way to go for any build, but since theres alchemy ppl can add int/str , then their just as good as the guy higher lvl pure.

Yea, thats what I been trying to tell Hasbin.

Pwnography · Post by **Pwnography** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:11 am

Hasbin wrote:PS: A hybrid str bow will do the same crit dmg as pure str too according to me.

roflllllll sure dude