Bow build 70:70 GUIDE Updated 3.0!

[Jadekiss]

aight this sounds pretty tight but....

how do we get this char rolling bro?

from lvl 1-XX how should we put the points in, i would REALLY REALLY like to use this build, plz tell me



P.S. MAJOR props Jade, ur awesome

everytime you level up, take off any gear that has either str or int on it

press c

add your int and str so the phys and mag balance stay 70/70% (think only 69/70 and 70/69 is doable)

the balance is displayed below of where you put in the stats

so there is no sertain order i just have to try to get 70/70 without armor?

yes thats right !
you just need to get a 70/70 balance without gear etc. which has str or int on it.
but your aim will be later to get a 80/80 balance build through alchemy system !

[churromai]

aight cool thnx a bunch bro

[Jadekiss]

well, np dude
your welcome, if you have any questions just ask them here, i think other people can/will answer them !

[churromai]

aight cool
thnx a bunch for posting this build and for helping out

[Jadekiss]

lol no again
but i can always answer your question quickly, im sometimes inactive so i think here are many other people with knowledge they will help you.
but well, i will always try my best to answer any question/to help everyone who need help in this thread !

just play your char and i would be glad about a feedback

[Ice771x]

someone probably said it in the other pages of the thread. but the added mag stats will kill your crits. sure you might hit a little more on the average hit, but your crits wont be as high as they would with pure str. and fighting a pure str glavie with 100+ mag balance, unless you have 4-5 str on all your armor pieces, youre gonna go down if he crits. this is my opinion. feel free to consider it or ignore it.

if youre gonna go with this build, get kick ass gear. id recommend protector so you can have some def on both sides of the fence. add lots and lots of str. and get a bow with crit 10 or 11+

[Jadekiss]

Well ice that is true but fact is crit = luck you cant always win by luck =)
thats my opinion
but ok mostp eople go pure str bow because of the crit.
But i dont want to based on crit only
i also have a full str lvl 70 and i prefer this build now !
But as you said already: feel free

[DS^]

Jadekiss will the 70:70 build also work with a spear ? because I have a 70:70 bow build lvl 33 ( OWNAGE ) but I also want to use a spear if possible

[Jadekiss]

DS^ yes on my opinion it will also work with a spear...
Hybrid spear = very good in pvp, as long as they have much HP
but i prefer bow =)

[Da_Realest]

...

I'm not going to bother to reply to your post anymore. Nothing positive or beneficial to the 70:70 bow topic has come from it. Neither one of us is willing to back down from arguments which will end up being perpetual so I will take a stand for the sake of this thread. In order to avoid further conflict and pointless debating, I'm disregarding your post.

[Alfred]

...

I'm not going to bother to reply to your post anymore. Nothing positive or beneficial to the 70:70 bow topic has come from it. Neither one of us is willing to back down from arguments which will end up being perpetual so I will take a stand for the sake of this thread. In order to avoid further conflict and pointless debating, I'm disregarding your post.

thank you

lets keep this a topic where we can exchange our experience with this build

[glavie]

Thanks alot Alfred and Da_Realist for posting the damage information from the different skills.

Its nice to see how damage output reacts to different balances. Everyone just remember that since they were wearing different gear the numbers posted should not be considered concrete evidence.

I would have expected the nuke to be a little more powerful with the spear.
I dont know much about nukes, is it true that fire book 2 has a longer load time which means larger damage output? If thats true can I assume that the difference between fire book 2 and anti devil will be larger at higher levels?

When I am done farming I will post data with the lightning nuke.

DS^ I beleive this might be a really good dual weapon build, I just dont have the SP to try it out. If you do go spear please post your experiences.
As a dual weapon build you will remove alot of the disadvantages from both bow and spear.
The biggest disadvantage I see to dual weapon besides SP and mastery constraints, is you have 2 split your weapon money over 2 instead of focusing on just 1.

[Alfred]

The 2nd fire nuke will do alot more damage then the one I tryed out, (got a 300% damage "whatever it means"). The anti devil goes up to 250% at the third book, so then it is compairable to the first book of fire nuke.

If I can spare the sp, I can take up my flame wave-arrow to lvl 10 and compair it to the third book of anti devil. But that's about 10 levels ahead so don't expect any results in the near future .

Its nice to see how damage output reacts to different balances. Everyone just remember that since they were wearing different gear the numbers posted should not be considered concrete evidence.

My gear has nearly not any str on it atm so that was also in favour for the nuking I did. Will check the difference without gear on today. Great to also have da_realest heavy str hyb bow to compair with.

I was thinking of bringing up heuksal too whenever I get the sp for it.

Oh btw, I'm in the 2nd place in the damage contest ^___^

[tomiotar]

Ok, I prepare an exell with the damage formulas

How damage might be calculated
Code:

mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent

total_damage_output = phy_damage * phy_balance + mag_damage * mag_balance

and this are the results that Ive got for a lvl 80 using a plain lvl 72 bow (http://sro.mmosite.com/database/items_weapon.shtml), last book of fire imbue and without extra skill damage:


Damage of single shot (lower values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str (16k HP)

Normal=2306===>Crit=4104

70:70 (9,2K HP)

Normal=2511===>Crit=3570

(difference Normal=205(8,9%extra dmg)------- Crit= 534(13,0%less dmg))

Damage of single shot (max values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=3053===>Crit=5380

70:70

Normal=3419===>Crit=4794

(difference Normal=366(11,99%extra dmg)-------Crit= 586(10,89%less dmg))


Now, a capped lvl 80 but with gear to get 80:80(11,6K HP) and pure str(18,1k HP) with the same gear (+44 str +43 int):

Damage of single shot (lower values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=2825===>Crit=4885

80:80

Normal=3023===>Crit=4328

(difference Normal=198 (7,01%extra dmg)-------Crit=557(11,40%less dmg))

Damage of single shot (max values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=3751===>Crit=6415

80:80

Normal=4103===>Crit=5795

(difference Normal=352(9,38%extra dmg)-------Crit= 620(9,66%less dmg))


So, that are the numbers that I've found. You get from 7 to 12% of extra damage on any non-crit hit and you loose 9,6 to 13% on the crits. As most of the hit you made will be non-crit you will have a clear increase on the damage you deal, but the biggest problem that I see is that you trade to much HP with this build for that damage increase. Considering the level 80 cap but with lvl69 skills I think that hibrid bow is the best option to be able to kill (I dont like the idea of not being killed but no being able to kill either), but I think this is not the best build because you will probably need more HP.

This graphic is like a resume to let anyone choose they own hibrid (or pure if you like). The next graphic was made with the highest values of attack, reinforcement and fire imbue. On the graphic you can see the damage evolution as a function of the amount of int that you add to your build (with no int or str on the gear) on a lvl80 char with a 72 bow. At same time I've add the HP evolution that is the other really important factor to take into account.





Hope you like it .

[Jadekiss]

wow nice timiotar ! really nice work, but ii took me a while to understand your graphic lol
but very nice man never thought that someone would spend time to make such a calculation.

Respect !!

[glavie]

The chart looks great.

Something is confusing me in the formulas, I will have to play with them later.

Is there a way we can test ingame to verify the formula?

If a pure intel build, and a pure str build were to shoot mangyangs with just imbue we could take the average damage and compare it to the formula damage right?

I picked mangyangs because i would think that lvl 1 mobs would have the least parry ratio and other damage modifers. And pure builds to create a more visible difference.

Can you think of any flaws with this idea.

[NuclearSilo]

Ok, I prepare an exell with the damage formulas

How damage might be calculated
Code:

mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent

total_damage_output = phy_damage * phy_balance + mag_damage * mag_balance

and this are the results that Ive got for a lvl 80 using a plain lvl 72 bow (http://sro.mmosite.com/database/items_weapon.shtml), last book of fire imbue and without extra skill damage:


Damage of single shot (lower values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str (16k HP)

Normal=2306===>Crit=4104

70:70 (9,2K HP)

Normal=2511===>Crit=3570

(difference Normal=205(8,9%extra dmg)------- Crit= 534(13,0%less dmg))

Damage of single shot (max values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=3053===>Crit=5380

70:70

Normal=3419===>Crit=4794

(difference Normal=366(11,99%extra dmg)-------Crit= 586(10,89%less dmg))


Now, a capped lvl 80 but with gear to get 80:80(11,6K HP) and pure str(18,1k HP) with the same gear (+44 str +43 int):

Damage of single shot (lower values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=2825===>Crit=4885

80:80

Normal=3023===>Crit=4328

(difference Normal=198 (7,01%extra dmg)-------Crit=557(11,40%less dmg))

Damage of single shot (max values of attacks, imbue and reinforcement).

Pure str

Normal=3751===>Crit=6415

80:80

Normal=4103===>Crit=5795

(difference Normal=352(9,38%extra dmg)-------Crit= 620(9,66%less dmg))


So, that are the numbers that I've found. You get from 7 to 12% of extra damage on any non-crit hit and you loose 9,6 to 13% on the crits. As most of the hit you made will be non-crit you will have a clear increase on the damage you deal, but the biggest problem that I see is that you trade to much HP with this build for that damage increase. Considering the level 80 cap but with lvl69 skills I think that hibrid bow is the best option to be able to kill (I dont like the idea of not being killed but no being able to kill either), but I think this is not the best build because you will probably need more HP.

This graphic is like a resume to let anyone choose they own hibrid (or pure if you like). The next graphic was made with the highest values of attack, reinforcement and fire imbue. On the graphic you can see the damage evolution as a function of the amount of int that you add to your build (with no int or str on the gear) on a lvl80 char with a 72 bow. At same time I've add the HP evolution that is the other really important factor to take into account.





Hope you like it .

Nice try
But there are still some problems remain :
- first, no one said that the damage formula is correct : it's only an aproximation.
- second, u forgot something very very important : defence & absortion.
Ex:

Pure str

Normal=3053===>Crit=5380

70:70

Normal=3419===>Crit=4794

(difference Normal=366(11,99%extra dmg)-------Crit= 586(10,89%less dmg))

This is the dmg result when u dont count the opponent's defence. If, because of the defence & absorption, the dmg of str is return to 500, and the dmg of hybrid is return to 866. The difference is still 366 dmg, but it's 73.2% extra dmg

- third, the result might be different when players using skill. We all know that for a bow, mag = 1.6*phy. So 350% magic boost from a skill is like 560% physic boost which can compensate the dmg lost when critical.
Try to test that formula above with Devil Arrow 297~402(350%) and Soul Fire Force 351~584 (100%) if u have time.

- fourth, there are many proofs show that critical from a hybrid is higher or equal a full str, like this thread. How can u explain that with the formula above?

[Da_Realest]

This is the dmg result when u dont count the opponent's defence. If, because of the defence & absorption, the dmg of str is return to 500, and the dmg of hybrid is return to 866. The difference is still 366 dmg, but it's 73.2% extra dmg

He never said it counted the opponent's defense. Its quite hard to accurately calculate the damage you would do to the opponent when no one is quite sure how parry works. His calculations would probably be most accurate on a mangyang since they probably have almost no defense.

- third, the result might be different when players using skill. We all know that for a bow, mag = 1.6*phy. So 350% magic boost from a skill is like 560% physic boost which can compensate the dmg lost when critical.

What? Since when did we learn this?

His calculations seem to coincide with this thread which also looks accurate.
http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
http://www.silkroadtavern.com/forums/in ... lated&st=0

Besides you can't just add more % to a skill. The % more than just damage but the skill's casting time.
http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic ... calculated

- fourth, there are many proofs show that critical from a hybrid is higher or equal a full str, like this thread. How can u explain that with the formula above?

Thats not proof. Jadakiss's 70:70 bow had 5 extra int points which has a effect on damage. The difference the int made was more apparent since he was level 24. Also, he only tested it one time. It would have been wiser to test it multiple times and get the average critical damage since damage varies because attack rating and the mob's parry ratio which is why damage is generally tested on manyangs.

[glavie]

any one who isnt impressed with his calculations maybe you could do some leg work for us.

The only way to be more accurate is to get the actual formula from Joy Max(not gonna happen) or test ingame.

Step 1 test the experimental formula ingame on mangyangs and see if there is a rough correction factor than can be applied to the calculation

Step 2 test 70:70 bow and str bow by shooting player characters that are pure str/1:1 hybrid/ and pure int. Their build should have an effect on the damage dealt.

Then take those characters and cloath them in armor/garms/protector and record the damage difference.

Step 3 Repeat step 2 every 10 levels

[tomiotar]

I completly agree that this formula its just and aproximation that can never be considered exact basicaly because I never say against what I was hitting. I put on the formula first minimum and later maximum to try to avoid the attack rating vs parry problem, so I was trying to give all range of possibles values.

As you say the damage can NEVER be calculate if you dont know the target defence, but that will implie make a graphic like the one I did for every mob and garm, prot, armor, prot-armor configuration and that is beyond my patience .

A really interesting point about that is the critical tendence. As you can see there is a minimum value for critical so you can have better crit adding int . That happen basically because you reach a moment when every point that you add to int increase the mag attack more than double the phys attack. Im sure that if we add the defence on the formula we will find that the minimum will be different on every target that we hit.

About how accurate is that formula, I cheked that the mag_dmg_base and phy_dmg_base coincide exactly for me when I use on my bow stats and check my char screen.

I will show you something:



Im an hibr archer and I love this char. Even when people say that a bow suck on pvp normaly I can win more fights that the one I loose. Many people say the hibr crit are low but thats depend completly on your build, we have to consider that there are 237 hibr posibilities (as many as stats points you get up to level 80) and for that its that I made the graphic. I never say that a hibr has low crit basically because I can tested every day. Yesterday I made a 11K with antidevil on a 52 pure str glavier that was trying to pvp with me. Even considering that Im 11 levels higher than him I was still able to do 11k of damage on someone that was using D7 weapon like me and Im not a nuker and I use Ice imbue (and I had to do it twice because he was still trying to hit me).

No build can be consider the best for pvp because if use crap gear you will get pawned. Yesterday I kill a lvl 64 glavier twice and today I loose against a lvl 60 glavier twice.

I will quote myself

This graphic is like a resume to let anyone choose they own hibrid (or pure if you like).

The best is that every one choose their char as they want, knowing that all possibles builds has strong pros and strong cons. I've choose mine in such a way that I do more or less the same phys and mag damage, basically because like this I do the same overall damage on all the different defence combinations. If you want go pure str you will have like 5 or 6K extra life , if you want go pure int you will have a much higher damage than me on at least 9 of 10 hit (considering a expensive crit 10 bow). What do you prefer is completly up to you .

[NuclearSilo]

any one who isnt impressed with his calculations maybe you could do some leg work for us.

The only way to be more accurate is to get the actual formula from Joy Max(not gonna happen) or test ingame.

Step 1 test the experimental formula ingame on mangyangs and see if there is a rough correction factor than can be applied to the calculation

Step 2 test 70:70 bow and str bow by shooting player characters that are pure str/1:1 hybrid/ and pure int. Their build should have an effect on the damage dealt.

Then take those characters and cloath them in armor/garms/protector and record the damage difference.

Step 3 Repeat step 2 every 10 levels

I told Jadekiss to test dmg on every build, every type of protection gear, but still have no answer

I completly agree that this formula its just and aproximation that can never be considered exact basicaly because I never say against what I was hitting. I put on the formula first minimum and later maximum to try to avoid the attack rating vs parry problem, so I was trying to give all range of possibles values.

As you say the damage can NEVER be calculate if you dont know the target defence, but that will implie make a graphic like the one I did for every mob and garm, prot, armor, prot-armor configuration and that is beyond my patience .

A really interesting point about that is the critical tendence. As you can see there is a minimum value for critical so you can have better crit adding int . That happen basically because you reach a moment when every point that you add to int increase the mag attack more than double the phys attack. Im sure that if we add the defence on the formula we will find that the minimum will be different on every target that we hit.

About how accurate is that formula, I cheked that the mag_dmg_base and phy_dmg_base coincide exactly for me when I use on my bow stats and check my char screen.

I will show you something:



Im an hibr archer and I love this char. Even when people say that a bow suck on pvp normaly I can win more fights that the one I loose. Many people say the hibr crit are low but thats depend completly on your build, we have to consider that there are 237 hibr posibilities (as many as stats points you get up to level 80) and for that its that I made the graphic. I never say that a hibr has low crit basically because I can tested every day. Yesterday I made a 11K with antidevil on a 52 pure str glavier that was trying to pvp with me. Even considering that Im 11 levels higher than him I was still able to do 11k of damage on someone that was using D7 weapon like me and Im not a nuker and I use Ice imbue (and I had to do it twice because he was still trying to hit me).

No build can be consider the best for pvp because if use crap gear you will get pawned. Yesterday I kill a lvl 64 glavier twice and today I loose against a lvl 60 glavier twice.

I will quote myself

Quote:
This graphic is like a resume to let anyone choose they own hibrid (or pure if you like).


The best is that every one choose their char as they want, knowing that all possibles builds has strong pros and strong cons. I've choose mine in such a way that I do more or less the same phys and mag damage, basically because like this I do the same overall damage on all the different defence combinations. If you want go pure str you will have like 5 or 6K extra life , if you want go pure int you will have a much higher damage than me on at least 9 of 10 hit (considering a expensive crit 10 bow). What do you prefer is completly up to you .
_________________


Build 6X 1:1 Hibr Cold Archer (trying to prove that its not useless as everybody say)

U're right, this game is totally gear dependant

[Da_Realest]

A really interesting point about that is the critical tendence. As you can see there is a minimum value for critical so you can have better crit adding int . That happen basically because you reach a moment when every point that you add to int increase the mag attack more than double the phys attack. Im sure that if we add the defence on the formula we will find that the minimum will be different on every target that we hit.

Well, thats very interesting.

[Aviator]

Look at the balances

Is it better than 70:70?

Ps: Trying to be int

[glavie]

Look at the balances

Is it better than 70:70?

Ps: Trying to be int

Uhhhh......
Isnt one of the main points of this thread the importance of using alchemy to raise your balances???

[FuryAngle]

Weel, as a 70:70 at level 69 100%farmed, with Bicheon at 69 and light/fire at 69 and heusukal at 69. I have to say spear is much better wepon for this build. But then again you use bow cuz you just like it:). As a archer it seems to do a bit more dmg than a str or hybrid str char. But its not noticible enough to throw away 7k hp. But as a nuker It is deffinetly worth to make a 70:70. I can Kill mobs my level in 1 hit with a +3 spear.

So its upto you.

I will try to get a video since this "Wind" guy hasnt done it himself....

[glavie]

Weel, as a 70:70 at level 69 100%farmed, with Bicheon at 69 and light/fire at 69 and heusukal at 69. I have to say spear is much better wepon for this build. But then again you use bow cuz you just like it:). As a archer it seems to do a bit more dmg than a str or hybrid str char. But its not noticible enough to throw away 7k hp. But as a nuker It is deffinetly worth to make a 70:70. I can Kill mobs my level in 1 hit with a +3 spear.

So its upto you.

Im glad you tried this build at high lvl. I have a bunch of questions I hope you can answer.

I am looking for your insight and opinion please give an explanation for your answers.

You say you like spear better, is your bow and sword comparable to your spear? similar + , blues, crit etc.

Can you give us more detail on your opinion of this build as an archer, spear, sword.

From previous posts It seems you are very PVP oriented. Have you tried grinding with this build using each weapon? Which one allows you to grind the fastest with the least amount of damage taken?

Have you taken this build jobbing? Do you think the bows range offer a benefit to thieves for the surprise attack, or a trader or hunter for mob control?

Does the sword work well for pvp, can its nukes hit with good damage, or must you be spear to make the nukes worthwhile?

Have you tried the bow in group wars, whats your opinion on it being a thorn in the enemies ass.

Any info you can provide would be awesome

[FuryAngle]

Bow opinion
Level68+6 bow. random blues, crit is decent.

In 1-1 against pure str/glavie i die 70%of the time due to their crit's and
stuns.

In 1-1 against pure/strbladers it ussually ends up a pot battle or waiting for double crits.

In 1-1 against pure INT/~ I win 90% of the time and can ussually tank for a while.

I havent used the Bow for job wars but i have spent an hour or so at jangan intersection in a guild war. It seemed to do pretty well since I was the last one standing until i got hit by e level 72+. So its hard to tell since i get attacked by higer levels.

As for Jobbing, with the bow I can handle 2/3*trades unless i get attacked by player thiefs.

It grinds at the same speed a nuker would.

Spear +7, no blues except str, and HP.

1-1 against pure/str glavie, its ussually about who takes and delivers the first hit. so its hard to say.

1-1 agains bladers. Infinite pot battle.

1-1 against pure int/ its ussually me the last guy standing except if he nukes and sss, or if he's a s/s he kd's im dead.

In job wars i died often but in Trades i can handle 3*+ easy with no worries of dieing to NPC thiefs.


The bow doesnt really have an advantage for this build since both bow and the nukes have range, and that range is usually eliminated if the opponent phantoms close to you.



In conclusion. A 70:70 or 80:80 build is a good idea for a nuker, I prefer it more than I do pure int. But for a bower I do not. The serrious lack of HP is just too much. And having to rely on a Crit is kinda lame, since crits can take more than 10minutes to come by, and most bladers have crit100 on their shields so its useless there too. Glaviers can 1crit me with sss and then mars and i end up dead. So I think its a bad Idea to give up more than 6.5k HP in hopes of making your critical greater.

I suggest to switch into a S/S or Spear with Pacheon as secondary. But its upto you, And JadeKiss, thanks for making me spend 40usd for silk and realocation potions

[glavie]

I hope to god that Jadekiss didn't force you to make this build.

Glad you posted your experience. Sad you didnt find it useful more enjoyable.


I look forward to some vids of your fights.

[Jadekiss]

well i didnt force anyone to do something !
im feel sorry for you FuryAngle... but well i said also its up to you what you want, on my opinion this is a great build.
you only need to get the 80:80 balance and you need to know how to use it
but well every build hs their pros and contras !

so im sry for you

[REASONS]

i might make a female archer <--- yeah they are hawt(70/70), after i lvl my blader to 64