My Guild Bots...Should I Leave?

ping_lo · Post by **ping_lo** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:09 am

Blackchocob0 wrote:That's called zealousy(SP?). It's gotten thousands upon thousands of people throughout history murdered. You're kinda dumb.

I got news for you. Tolerance can get just as many killed. So don't knock zealots and then spout the virtues of apathy. At least the zealots are willing to stand for something. Even if they are wrong at times. Though this is not one of those times. So be careful about making "dumb" comments lest they boomerang back on you.

1 bot is really 1 bot to many.

Drachenklaue · Post by **Drachenklaue** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:20 am

What's the big deal? Make him get kicked or leave.

I am guild leader myself and I do not tolerate any form of botting.

Blackchocob0 · Post by **Blackchocob0** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:23 pm

ping_lo wrote:
Blackchocob0 wrote:That's called zealousy(SP?). It's gotten thousands upon thousands of people throughout history murdered. You're kinda dumb.

I got news for you. Tolerance can get just as many killed. So don't knock zealots and then spout the virtues of apathy. At least the zealots are willing to stand for something. Even if they are wrong at times. Though this is not one of those times. So be careful about making "dumb" comments lest they boomerang back on you.

1 bot is really 1 bot to many.

Lol you want to compare how many people tolerance has killed to zelousy? I don't want to get into it cos it's a waste of time, so I'll just leave it at a...you're wrong.

Honestly, what is me saying 'blah I hate bots they should die' going to do to stem the tide of botters? Nada.

ping_lo · Post by **ping_lo** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:39 pm

Blackchocob0 wrote:Lol you want to compare how many people tolerance has killed to zelousy? I don't want to get into it cos it's a waste of time, so I'll just leave it at a...you're wrong.

Honestly, what is me saying 'blah I hate bots they should die' going to do to stem the tide of botters? Nada.

All I need are two little words to prove you wrong. Darfur and the hollocaust. One we waited to long to intervene on. And the other most are still ignoring. Sure we are not the ones doing the deed. But our inaction allows for it to happen.

Sure nothing that serious is gonna happen in game. But the principle is the same.

So basically tollerance has killed as many people as zealotry since they kinda go hand in hand. But this is really not the place for this and I am not going to debate it with you further.

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:49 pm

If you're saying that a guild with one bot makes the whole guild bot, then think it over. You cannot actually tell if the guild had any intentions on letting a botter in the guild, there for you're judging a book by its cover. Even when the problem is solved, the guild will lose reputation and gain botting reputation due to those who think 1 bot makes a botting guild.

As said, every player is a individual that plays the game however he wants to play it. So the guild should not be punished for one single player's actions, especially when that player is doing good in the guild.

Edit: too many people are taking the botting problem to another level.

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:01 pm

You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

Manowar · Post by **Manowar** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:11 pm

Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

Well put.

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:19 pm

Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

Yep I agree with this, but what does this statement have to do with guild issues?

Manowar · Post by **Manowar** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:26 pm

Gladen wrote:
Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

Yep I agree with this, but what does this statement have to do with guild issues?

Theyre both games and they both have players and in both situations one person is cheating in some way.

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:56 pm

Manowar wrote:
Gladen wrote:
Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

Yep I agree with this, but what does this statement have to do with guild issues?

Theyre both games and they both have players and in both situations one person is cheating in some way.

Yeah, but it has nothing to do with the thread starter's issue. His issue is about a person botting nd cheating yes, but what Alfred is just another opinion and statement concerning the person. But what I am saying is that the guild is not a botting guild because one person bots. Even though it seems the guild leader accepts that one person botting doesn't make the guild a botting guild.

Braxton · Post by **Braxton** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:03 am

I would just leave, you don't wanna do things the right way and grind to cap just to be associated with a botting guild. Guilty by association man :banghead:

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:22 am

I agree with a lot of remarks here. It's just that why care about what others judge you by? If i's not true it's not true. I would stand my ground and prove them wrong.

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:31 am

Gladen wrote:
Alfred wrote:yada yada

Yep I agree with this, but what does this statement have to do with guild issues?

I was answering to this post:

Blackchocob0 wrote:
Alfred wrote:Well, if a guild allows botters then I would call it a botter guild. Even though the majority don't bot. But hey, that's me. Irrational and way too much botter hostile for my own good I guess.

If you really were sure about him botting, then I know I would confront both him and my guildleader. If he didn't get kicked out then, I would leave.

You can't choose the way other plays the game but you can choose who to play with.

That's called zealousy(SP?). It's gotten thousands upon thousands of people throughout history murdered. You're kinda dumb.

ping_lo · Post by **ping_lo** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:36 am

Gladen wrote:If you're saying that a guild with one bot makes the whole guild bot, then think it over. You cannot actually tell if the guild had any intentions on letting a botter in the guild, there for you're judging a book by its cover.

No. Not at all. If there is a bot in their midst and you make them aware of it and provide strong evidence and they do nothing. Then they are most likely ok with it and could be considdered a botting or bot friendly guild.

Gladen wrote:Even when the problem is solved, the guild will lose reputation and gain botting reputation due to those who think 1 bot makes a botting guild.

Depends. There are some that are irrational that will never forget. But if it is taken care of timely etc then there is no reason to hold a stigma against the guild. We warred a guild recently. They got ahead of us due to a boneheaded manuver on my part. Stroke of luck a member had seen one of theirs botting for quite some time. And better he even knew where he did it at. They were ahead so they camped in town a bit since they could not really take us. In the mean time I sent my member out on a bot hunt. He found him killed him and we got way ahead.

At that point I assume the guild leader and members tried contacting him to find out what was going on. They must have assumed him AFK. When they found that he had died and not only that was up moving around in town and not responding. I assume they put 2 and 2 togeather. They yielded in the war and the very next day the bot in question was guildless. For that they get much respect. Though I have heard rumor there is another bot in their midst. But I told my guilde to save that bit of info for the next war.

Gladen wrote:As said, every player is a individual that plays the game however he wants to play it. So the guild should not be punished for one single player's actions, especially when that player is doing good in the guild.

Wrong. It is all up to the guild. If they don't want the stigma they are free to boot the guy. No one says it has to be a bad parting. Many I found that were botting parted on good terms with me. I can't make them stop playing or stop botting. But I don't have to have them in my guild no matter how much I like them otherwise. If I decide I can't part with the person and keep them despite the botting. The responsibility for it falls on me and everyone in the guild. And I would never put that on them. Honor is hard to earn and easily lost. You have to defend it actively or risk loosing it.

Gladen wrote:Edit: too many people are taking the botting problem to another level.

Rather to many people tolerate it.

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:47 am

There are a lot of different views towards individual views on botting and views on botting concerning guilds. So far, Joymax isn't doing much about the bots so just ignoring the bots or KSing them won't really do much but waste our own time.

Even if it risks a guild's image, discussing about having one bot to take advantage of may put the guild in a good position. Though if ll you're thinking about is a reputation or image in this game, then it's pointless in playing it. But hey, that's what I think.

Botting isn't good nor is it evil. It's bad, cheating, but even though people should not take it so lightly nor should people take on it so much. In the end it is what your views lead you to, and what your choices lead you to that determines what's right and wrong. But again, we shouldn't care about what others think, if you think what you're doing is a good cause go for it and it also refers to taking advantage on botters. There is always a risk to everything.

Angelice · Post by **Angelice** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:01 pm

Gladen wrote:In the end it is what your views lead you to, and what your choices lead you to that determines what's right and wrong. But again, we shouldn't care about what others think, if you think what you're doing is a good cause go for it and it also refers to taking advantage on botters. There is always a risk to everything.

Whats right or wrong is irrelevant to be honest. People will do whatever they wanna do. If it means they are against botting then thats that. If they are a botter and choose to continue to do so, thats their choice. And there isn't anything that you can do to change their mind.

Regardless of whether you are for or against them, bots do have their usefullnesses. Like for an example, they can gain lots of GP for your guild.

I personally don't care if people bot so long as they don't KS me which ReBorn and ReBorn2 on Eldorado are famous for doing.

EvilSoul... lvl 60+ botter... the only thing that pisses me off about him is that he comes in and ruins everyones fun in job wars against other unions because his lil lackies say something in guild chat or union. Might I add, is emo =P

But yeah... obviously there will be risks in everything that you do in the game. Right now, botting, if the GM's cared, would get you banned, doing trade runs will most likely lose you money on Eldorado because the GM's are too freaking lazy to fix the issue, job warring or pvping risks EvilSoul coming and getting owned by 2 guilds XD get the point? Nothing you do or say will keep people from botting sooooo I really don't see what the point is about complaining about them doing so. IT CHANGES NOTHING.

Also LMAOROFLCOPTER @ the botting hypocrits

Blackchocob0 · Post by **Blackchocob0** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:12 pm

Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

And if one person on that team takes roids, they all do, right? :roll:

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:44 pm

Blackchocob0 wrote:
Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

And if one person on that team takes roids, they all do, right?

Alfred wrote:Well, if a guild allows botters then I would call it a botter guild

Angelice · Post by **Angelice** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:04 pm

Alfred wrote:
Blackchocob0 wrote:
Alfred wrote:You can't really compare my opinion of botters with mass murdering through out the history chocob0.

That's kinda lame =_=

Sports are more of a good comparison. If somone is taking steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, then they are not allowed to participate. As simple as that. Shortcuts to the top is wrong and ugly. You don't deserve any respect if you can't play fair. And botting, gold buying and ccfing isn't fair play.

And if one person on that team takes roids, they all do, right?

Alfred wrote:Well, if a guild allows botters then I would call it a botter guild

You cannot judge an entire guild based on one players actions. Some people like myself just don't care if people bot or not. To condemn an entire guild because of one persons actions is like condeming an entire army to death by law because of one soldiers actions on the battlefield.

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:06 am

Step 1. Get a high level you can trust.

2. Have him track alleged botter.

3. Get hard proof.

4. Report to Joymax.

5. Get Guild Master to kick. If he refuses after seeing evidence, leave.

kuriko · Post by **kuriko** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:17 am

Hm.. I dont think you should leave, and bout the item giving stuff, he does that so you'd bear a little "you owe me" to him. Its not being considerate, he just knows how to do a little magic called manipulate, i think. But thats my opinion.

Gladen · Post by **Gladen** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:25 am

In the end it's about what you want to do and what you have decided. Don't always base your decisions on other's opinions and thoughts.

Though my opinion is different from most. One player's actions should not be the reasons of a guild/group. Though if the GL allows "bots" in the guild then yeah the guild may be considered a botting guild. But if he allows "that certain/one bot" then you can't really jugde and say the guild is a botting guild.

I end my comments in this thread from now on, I'll be away for a few days.

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:11 am

Gladen wrote:In the end it's about what you want to do and what you have decided. Don't always base your decisions on other's opinions and thoughts.

Though my opinion is different from most. One player's actions should not be the reasons of a guild/group. Though if the GL allows "bots" in the guild then yeah the guild may be considered a botting guild. But if he allows "that certain/one bot" then you can't really jugde and say the guild is a botting guild.

I end my comments in this thread from now on, I'll be away for a few days.

So your saying that if the GM lets only one member bot, then the guild is fine but if he lets two people bot, then the guild is a botting guild

Im sorry but i fail to see the logic in this. One botter is still a botter and IMO if you are GM and know he's botting and don't due anything about it, then because of your responsibilty as GM, your saying that "Our guild accepts botters".

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:16 am

If a guild leader acknowledges that a member is botting, and aforementioned member is still within the guild, then said guild is a botter guild.

Angelice · Post by **Angelice** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:09 pm

You people are hopeless.

1 bot does not make a guild a botter guild. In no way shape or form.

Ask yourselves If your friends were to jump off a cliff would you follow and be considered lemmings?

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:32 pm

The video was staged, all the lemmings were forced off the cliff by Walt Disney. Also think about it, if you destroy some guild in a guild war, but one of your members was known for botting, then sure enough any guild you beat will say "but they're a botter guild" and any guild you lose to will say "hahaha we pwned a botter guild we're 1337".

Kitty · Post by **Kitty** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:39 pm

Angelice wrote:You people are hopeless.

1 bot does not make a guild a botter guild. In no way shape or form.

I lol'd at that.

The guild allows botting. Implying more bots are allowed. Guess what that means? It's a bot guild! :shock:

Angelice · Post by **Angelice** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:38 pm

rofl Not necessarily dude... some guilds might make an exception for 1 *has known this to happen on greece*

Edit: Why I even bother trying to talk to you people about this sort of thing, I don't know.

Half of you are probably hypocrits who pretend not to bot *shrugs* All the same to me. I really don't know why people care either. Botters will continue to bot regardless of whether people say/do anything against them. Those banned will just make a new character and bot it up etc. Its a cycle that just won't ever end no matter what we say or do.

SO with that said, I think you should just adopt the whole ideal of not caring. It would mean less stress for people in the end. (Only people that truly deserves to be banned are ksing botters and hackers in my eyes.)

Kitty · Post by **Kitty** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:14 am

Using your logic, a man could have sex with another man, but not call himself gay. :roll:

Angelice · Post by **Angelice** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:14 am

lol no.... thats not my logic at all....

don't try to think how I think cause you will never be able to ^^

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