When lions get fed up... [NSFW]

[[SD]Master_Wong]

single minded fool, i'm at least trying to copulate a discussion based on this rather then single mindedly sticking to the idea that zoo's do good. I am trying to understand and address your points some of which i agree with but not all. If you cant be arsed to form a real response don't respond at all. but allow me to address everything in manner you have.

[color=#000000]My single minded belief is based on the fact that animals have been doing relatively well for a considerable amount of years (hundreds if not thousands) hence why zoos are not necessary to "study" them or care for them....I do realize the intentions towards animals in zoos seems pure but it's misguided... When a killer whale, lion or tiger kill a zoo keeper/trainer the facility opens the next week for business rather than question the validity behinds it's existence...... I actually find you to be a single minded fool as well for buying into the system without even questioning its relevance....You need to wake up...My back and forth with you is done here...

Scientists have estimated that over the course of Earth's history, anywhere between 1 and 4 billion species have existed on this planet. Be it through disease, genetic obsolescence, over-predation or any number of other factors, the overwhelming majority of these species are now extinct. Of these billions of species, roughly 50 million still survive into the modern era. While these numbers are certainly extreme at first glance, it serves as proof that extinction, while a sad occurrence, is a part of life for all living things.

Just to illustrate the degree of biodiversity loss we're facing, let’s take you through one scientific analysis...
The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate.*
These experts calculate that between 0.01 and 0.1% of all species will become extinct each year.
If the low estimate of the number of species out there is true - i.e. that there are around 2 million different species on our planet** - then that means between 200 and 2,000 extinctions occur every year.
But if the upper estimate of species numbers is true - that there are 100 million different species co-existing with us on our planet - then between 10,000 and 100,000 species are becoming extinct each year.

now a lot of this shows it's natural some have become endangered though over hunting and we risk extinction; conservationist, zoo's & safari's are all doing what they can to preserve species for future generations. Budu you have not done a single shred of research this whole argument to support anything you are saying, you have no sources no nothing. if i didn't know something i said i didn't know it but i did give my best account. that's why you are pissing me off, you are all talk.

so to say they have done pretty well isn't exactly true, iv got to go out so didnt bother with the endangered stats you can do that

[BuDo]

My single minded belief is based on the fact that animals have been doing relatively well for a considerable amount of years (hundreds if not thousands) hence why zoos are not necessary to "study" them or care for them....I do realize the intentions towards animals in zoos seems pure but it's misguided... When a killer whale, lion or tiger kill a zoo keeper/trainer the facility opens the next week for business rather than question the validity behinds it's existence...... I actually find you to be a single minded fool as well for buying into the system without even questioning its relevance....You need to wake up...My back and forth with you is done here...

Some of them were doing good, other ones not so good, that's why they went extinct. And I do understand where you're coming from. Yes, they deserve to live in the wild and everything, but do you really think that just banning the poaching will stop the poachers?

Nope I wont pretend to think that the law will stop poachers... I would be much in a favor of a single world facility who's mandate it is to protect a few endangered specimens the moment these specimens hit the endangered list...but the worldwide commercialization and exploitation of animals under the guise of "research" just doesn't sit well with me....

[*BlackFox]

anywhere between 1 and 4 billion species have existed on this planet. Be it through disease, genetic obsolescence, over-predation

I wonder what/who caused this.

[[SD]Master_Wong]

My single minded belief is based on the fact that animals have been doing relatively well for a considerable amount of years (hundreds if not thousands) hence why zoos are not necessary to "study" them or care for them....I do realize the intentions towards animals in zoos seems pure but it's misguided... When a killer whale, lion or tiger kill a zoo keeper/trainer the facility opens the next week for business rather than question the validity behinds it's existence...... I actually find you to be a single minded fool as well for buying into the system without even questioning its relevance....You need to wake up...My back and forth with you is done here...

Some of them were doing good, other ones not so good, that's why they went extinct. And I do understand where you're coming from. Yes, they deserve to live in the wild and everything, but do you really think that just banning the poaching will stop the poachers?

Nope I wont pretend to think that the law will stop poachers... I would be much in a favor of a single world facility who's mandate it is to protect a few endangered specimens the moment these specimens hit the endangered list...but the worldwide commercialization and exploitation of animals under the guise of "research" just doesn't sit well with me....

just shut up, starting to sound like a hippy.

"got to fight the man", "fight the system", "pharmaceuticals are lies"

look if you wont accept anything anyone in this thread is saying just fuck off because im getting fed up of this one view attitude. Look up what we are saying form a view and be willing to accept new ideas. the world over just the past 10 years has changed how we treat animals with new and tighter animal legislation at least in the UK, but you don't seem to understand some of the animals CANT be released they would die, do you have any pets? ever had any pets? could a normal dog survive a good standard of life if left to it's own devises? no.

Yes shit happens animals get captured and abused, but with how the world is changing people don't want to go to an animal circus no more, so circus's have changed some still use animals but they cant in the UK because of the law and those animals if saved from that environment will never survive so we give them a good life they eat well, get exercise and can breed.

Zoo's & Safaris have a good chance to help animals and keep research projects going, conservation, re-population thanks to visitors otherwise no one would invest the world is run by money so money will play a part.

I'm leaving this thread i can't be bothered to repeat myself to someone who clearly know's fuck all, wont bother doing a simple Google search just to check up what he is saying hell cant even adapt his views. starting to sound like a religion. one way of doing things. one view and not budging.


turns out the venue is closed didn't need to go out could have left with a better reply earlier meh

[Bartic]

anywhere between 1 and 4 billion species have existed on this planet. Be it through disease, genetic obsolescence, over-predation

I wonder what/who caused this.

I doubt humans are to be blamed the most.

[BuDo]

@ Sir Wong:

Temper temper lol...you puppet...seems my one-sided narrow minded view is now making you argue in a narrow minded and one-sided way for whats opposite to my views... I don't have a perfect answer or the answer... I can only state my views.... No need to menstruate in your pants about it...Your interpretation is not even your own..its merely the regurgitated information you found on the web that you're not applying any second thought to...

[*BlackFox]

anywhere between 1 and 4 billion species have existed on this planet. Be it through disease, genetic obsolescence, over-predation

I wonder what/who caused this.

I doubt humans are to be blamed the most.

You guessed wrong!... lulz

[Bartic]

I doubt humans are to be blamed the most.

You guessed wrong! ...[/quote]

Humans weren't around for the 500 millions of years since the first land animals and plants evolved, and a lot of animals went extinct during that time period.

[*BlackFox]

Humans weren't around for the 500 millions of years since the first land animals and plants evolved, and a lot of animals went extinct during that time period.

Just think about this! Some animals are extinct because of humans!

Humans were responsible for at least 500 extinctions in recent history.
However it it more than possible that humans have killed over 1000 species over the course of our existence.
Scientist find it quite suspicious that a many large animals (saber toothed cats, mammoths, ground sloths, etc.) went extinct near the time that humans arrived in north and south America.

It also depends on what counts as making an animal go extinct, for instance when humans cut down an entire forest and animals have nowhere to go, and go extinct, the humans didn't directly kill the animals.

[Bartic]

^Yeah, I know, but 1000 out of 1-4 billion species is not really significant.

[0l3n]

1000 species out of 100000000.

You want to argue that we have even made a dent in that number?

EDIT: And please, for your own sake, think about what you're about to post before you post it.

[DarkJackal]

I couldn't watch the part where they shot the lion .

[*BlackFox]

1000 species out of 100000000.

After all, you weren't around millions years ago.
Second "evolution is Just a theory" And seriously, who knows how many animals went extinct?
But I bet.. there are many species went extinct because of humans.

[Ganja]

The northern white rhinoceros, or northern square-lipped rhinoceros (Ceratotherium simum cottoni) is considered Critically Endangered or Extinct in the Wild. Formerly found in several countries in East and Central Africa south of the Sahara, this subspecies is a grazer in grasslands and savanna woodlands. In the world, there are currently only three rhinos of this subspecies left in captivity and four have been returned to a conservancy in Kenya.
Initially, six northern white rhinoceros lived in the Dvůr Králové Zoo in the Czech Republic. Four of the six rhinos (which are also the only reproductive animals of this subspecies) were transported to Ol Pejeta Conservancy in Kenya, Africa.

Spoiler!

In this Conservancy the rhinos are protected by armed men to keep them from falling in the hands of poachers who are after them for their horns.

Poachers reduced their population from 500 to 15 in the 1970s and 1980s. From the early 1990s through mid 2003, the population recovered to more than 32 animals. Surveys in 2000 indicated the population had started recovering, with 30 animals confirmed in 2000, and possibly six others. Since mid 2003, poaching had intensified and reduced the wild population to only 5 to 10 animals (7 as of 2007).

The population of these animals was very low to begin(judging by the information that is given) with but yes, humans seem to be the reason these animals are going to eventually go extinct but humans are also trying to protect them from becoming extinct by having them in places where they are safe from poachers like zoos and the conservancy in Kenya.

Animals go extinct, survival of the fittest, if you don't adapt you die. It's been happening since before people were around to document it and it will continue to happen, human interference of other wise. While the amount of animals that are said to be extinct because of humans does seem insignificant, to the number of animals still alive, it is a tragedy to see.

Now I ask you this: Would you still rather this have these animals left on their own, in the wild, to be inevitably killed and become extinct or would you rather have people bring them to sanctuaries and zoos to live their lives out and too also have a fighting chance of coming back from the brink of extinction?

[Vaya]

The amount of stupidity in that video seems to be infinite:
- They seemed so quite the whole time which was weird for such occasion.
- one of them decided to film it instead of helping(he started filming after the guy got bitten so it's not coincidence).
- the guy was holding the lion's head, and suddenly decided to let it go, then he panicked when the lion bit the man's neck, what did you expect you let the lion go!!
- they couldn't control the lion for 5 seconds to open the door and pull the guy out, and it's a circus!!

[DarkJackal]

1000 species out of 100000000.

After all, you weren't around millions years ago.
Second "evolution is Just a theory" And seriously, who knows how many animals went extinct?
But I bet.. there are many species went extinct because of humans.

Scientific theory. Its not the same as everyday term theory. Like Theory of Gravity and such.

[omier]

Spoiler!

In this Conservancy the rhinos are protected by armed men to keep them from falling in the hands of poachers who are after them for their horns.

But this one has no horns.

[Ganja]

They were shaved off so that poachers would have no interest in them.

[0l3n]

EDIT: And please, for your own sake, think about what you're about to post before you post it.

[Azilius]

Better question to me is..

Why do any of you think a species going "extinct" is a bad thing?

[Fury]

Better question to me is..

Why do any of you think a species going "extinct" is a bad thing?

The extinction of certain species may cause the collapse of ecosystems that provide us with food and have other repercussions.

This kinda sums it up
http://neilhorton.hubpages.com/hub/shou ... ng-extinct

[Azilius]

Better question to me is..

Why do any of you think a species going "extinct" is a bad thing?

The extinction of certain species may cause the collapse of ecosystems that provide us with food and have other repercussions.

This kinda sums it up
http://neilhorton.hubpages.com/hub/shou ... ng-extinct

I'm confused, this article only cites instances of how a species being alive results in good for other species, however simply stating that is not proof a species going extinct is bad. Everything good resulting from extinction is being ignored in this evidence (such as other species thriving and evolving more because their predators are extinct).

Natural selection works in such a way that everything conforms to a balanced state, because everything is constantly evolving in ways such that they maximize their ability to "live". Any changes could cause problems, that's true, but the system as a whole eventually returns to relative order.

[inky]

1) Why is there a dog inside the lion's cage? Why would you put them in the same place? If the lion trainer is responsible for that, I'm glad he got mauled.

2) As someone who has saved lives before: Between a stranger's and an animal's life? Don't be surprised if I choose a cat or a dog. I'm not saying this to be a jerk..I really mean it. Hell, I donate to the ASPCA monthly because I really do care for their cause but I just never managed to give two shits about humans.

3) Animal zoos are prisons for animals. Animal sanctuaries are meant to protect them from natural occurrences that threaten their well-being and people (hunters, for example).

[Fury]

Better question to me is..

Why do any of you think a species going "extinct" is a bad thing?

The extinction of certain species may cause the collapse of ecosystems that provide us with food and have other repercussions.

This kinda sums it up
http://neilhorton.hubpages.com/hub/shou ... ng-extinct

I'm confused, this article only cites instances of how a species being alive results in good for other species, however simply stating that is not proof a species going extinct is bad. Everything good resulting from extinction is being ignored in this evidence (such as other species thriving and evolving more because their predators are extinct).

Natural selection works in such a way that everything conforms to a balanced state, because everything is constantly evolving in ways such that they maximize their ability to "live". Any changes could cause problems, that's true, but the system as a whole eventually returns to relative order.

Yes, naturally. But us humans have fcked up the balance. Normally, new species develop, through a process known as speciation, at about the same rate that other species become extinct. However, because of air and water pollution, forest clearing, loss of wetlands, and other man-induced environmental changes, extinctions are now occurring at a rate that far exceeds the speciation rate. Each extinction diminishes the diversity and complexity of life on earth. The loss of a single species may result in few environmental repercussions however, all life on earth is interconnected. If enough "living connections" are broken, whole ecosystems could fail the balance of nature could be forever altered, and our own survival could be jeopardized.

[heroo]

LOL at you retards who care more about an animal's life then a person's life. You guys are the weak point of this society.

[Azilius]

The extinction of certain species may cause the collapse of ecosystems that provide us with food and have other repercussions.

This kinda sums it up
http://neilhorton.hubpages.com/hub/shou ... ng-extinct

I'm confused, this article only cites instances of how a species being alive results in good for other species, however simply stating that is not proof a species going extinct is bad. Everything good resulting from extinction is being ignored in this evidence (such as other species thriving and evolving more because their predators are extinct).

Natural selection works in such a way that everything conforms to a balanced state, because everything is constantly evolving in ways such that they maximize their ability to "live". Any changes could cause problems, that's true, but the system as a whole eventually returns to relative order.

Yes, naturally. But us humans have fcked up the balance. Normally, new species develop, through a process known as speciation, at about the same rate that other species become extinct. However, because of air and water pollution, forest clearing, loss of wetlands, and other man-induced environmental changes, extinctions are now occurring at a rate that far exceeds the speciation rate. Each extinction diminishes the diversity and complexity of life on earth. The loss of a single species may result in few environmental repercussions however, all life on earth is interconnected. If enough "living connections" are broken, whole ecosystems could fail the balance of nature could be forever altered, and our own survival could be jeopardized.

I understand all of that and it's pretty much derived from the post I quoted. The problem is the last bit

"and our own survival could be jeopardized", any conclusive evidence on this? Who's to say having less, more powerful species is worse than having many fragile ones? On the flip side I could argue that eliminating viruses from the world is the exact same thing as killing a species (because it is). How can we gauge the effect of the loss of small pox on our ecosystems? It seems like a poorly constructed argument which bears the "don't do it because we don't know what will happen" tag.

[Bartic]

1000 species out of 100000000.

After all, you weren't around millions years ago.
Second "evolution is Just a theory" And seriously, who knows how many animals went extinct?
But I bet.. there are many species went extinct because of humans.

I can't believe there are still people out there who say: "Evolution is just a theory."

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and do not make apodictic propositions; instead, they aim for predictive and explanatory force.

[*BlackFox]

^ Well, It's Just a theory.. Just like the theory of gravity.

LOL at you retards who care more about an animal's life then a person's life.

The guy survived.. Didn't He?

1) Why is there a dog inside the lion's cage?

The poor dog... maybe been put in as a "distraction to get the lion away from the guy"?

Anyway, you can train a wild animal.. but you can never "domesticate a wild animal such as a lion"

[0l3n]

@Azilius: Because we want to save a species going extinct doesn't necessarily mean we think its a bad thing for nature as a whole. I figure we're trying to do the best thing for the species going extinct. Obviously I can't argue for everyone else but that's why I think most people think we need to save them.

[Bartic]

^ Well, It's Just a theory.. Just like the theory of gravity.

You're trolling, right?