A discussion...

[.curve]

So on another forum I frequent, a topic came up about the human soul. When I checked it this morning, it had 4 pages. When I came home from work and checked it again, it was up to 22 pages. It seems like a great topic to discuss. The OP opened with these two questions:

So let's start with the basics and try to narrow it down to as specific as possible. Just answer the questions the best you can.

#1 Does every living thing have a soul ? Only humans ? Maybe other animals as well ? How about plants ? Maybe insects ? What about mushrooms as they're sort of neither animal nor plant, do mushrooms have souls ?

#2 At which point is a soul created ? In example of humans. Does an adult male have a soul ? Does a teenager have a soul ? Does a freshborn baby have a soul ? Does a fetus inside the mother's womb have a soul ? Does an inseminated egg cell have a soul ? Does a sperm have a soul ? What if the sperm is still inside the father's balls but hasn't gone out yet, does it have a soul ?

He also goes on to give his definition of what he considers a soul to be:

The human soul. What is it ? How do we get it ? For the purpose of this thread, I define human soul as something that transcends the earthly body. A higher function. Something that possibly is not limited. Something that possibly can "live" on after death.

The reason I made this thread is because I'm curious what you guys think of the topic.

Personally, I don't believe in a soul as something you can define. I don't think it's some transcendent entity that will live on forever. I believe that what we consider the soul is merely our brains and all the processes that are covered by it. Our thoughts, personalities, emotions, etc., are all products of our normal brain function combined with past experiences to create who we are as a person.

Try to keep this from becoming a Religion vs. Science topic, as it's very prone to do so.

[*BlackFox]

Well... Regardless if you believe in a soul or not, you can't provide any evidence for it existing
It's such a pity, isn't it?

[Deadfear]

Soul is consciousness. And consciousness is a product of evolution from us to be able to survive better.

[MrTwilliger]

Omg, tomorrow when I'm at my computer I'm going to go crazy ass on this thread. Don't let it be liked until I post!

[Mirosuke]

Omg, tomorrow when I'm at my computer I'm going to go crazy ass on this thread. Don't let it be liked until I post!

We were expecting you. You, and BuDo and some other crazy ppl.

[Swindler]

Walter Bishop's theory is that the soul is the energy left from the body after the person has died. His old partner, William Bell built something called soul magnets, which capured this energy so you could revive the person again, just in another body. Walter is rarely wrong, so I am sure his theory is correct.

[Love]

Such a dumb question, I wish I didn't feel exactly that way.

[Herp_Derp]

I always pondered about stuff like this and I guess if we did have a soul it would be our brains, or located somewhere within them.
I say this because if today you traded your brain with someone
else, everything that made you, you(personality,likes,dislikes,memories etc) would be in a new body.
I also see the body as machine of sorts and the soul keeps all the components going.

[*BlackFox]

I also see the body as machine of sorts and the soul keeps all the components going.

Meh.. I don't agree. Human body is not a machine.
Well, do you have a money back guarantee?

[.curve]

Well... Regardless if you believe in a soul or not, you can't provide any evidence for it existing
It's such a pity, isn't it?

Which has been the huge counter argument to souls existing throughout the other thread.

Both sides have cited that since you can't measure it in any way, that is proof/proof against the existence of a soul. It's a fascinating topic.

@Herp: I see the body as a machine and the brain keeps all the components going. It's been proven that when you die, all brain function stops, and thus nothing is able to continue working. This would include the parts of your brain that control feelings, emotions, your personality, your thinking, etc.

[heroo]

your soul is your personality.

[*BlackFox]

The human body include "brain" is a damn impressive life forms... of billions individual cells
that make up a single living being. It isn’t a matter of mix and match parts. Just saying

Both sides have cited that since you can't measure it in any way, that is proof/proof against the existence of a soul.

Well.. It also depends on how you define "soul"

[Gaigemasta]

I don't consider there to be a soul. Acknowledging a soul would almost certainly mean you would have to believe in ghosts, spirits, god(s), and etc. Obviously I cannot fully disprove a soul (as much as I can disprove the flying spaghetti monster), but instead of acting like it exist, why don't people treat as something "possible" to exist instead of fact. There is not bit of evidence to back it up except people giving stories...

[Fiction]

I'm no expert...

... but I know beyond a reasonable doubt that gingers do not have souls.

[/Pi]

If I want to be poetic, I use "soul". But other than that, "mind" suffices, without all the transcendent bullsh*t.

[KillAndChill]

Imo, anything that can show emotion has a "soul."

i.e. Dogs have souls

[Toshiharu]

2deep4me

[.curve]

The human body include "brain" is a damn impressive life forms... of billions individual cells
that make up a single living being. It isn’t a matter of mix and match parts. Just saying

Both sides have cited that since you can't measure it in any way, that is proof/proof against the existence of a soul.

Well.. It also depends on how you define "soul"

Ok, then how do you define soul?

Another question for you guys:
Do you think that you can believe in the existence of a soul without it being tied to religion?

[Azilius]

While it's possible there are souls, perhaps in higher dimensions outside our view, there is zero evidence of any such thing. Until then I chalk it up beside other fairy tales.

[MrTwilliger]

I've got some good and some bad news here. The good news is that I've read the entire thread and am ready to post. The bad news is that I'm terribly hung over and only had 1 & 1/2 hours sleep, so apologies in advanced if nothing makes any sense.

My biggest problem with this topic is the large amount of conjecture that it contains. I, personally, don't believe for a second that their is a soul that lives on, or a soul inside of us at all. I base this belief based on my realm of knowledge about how the universe works and the functions of the human body. But my knowledge is limited, there's so many things in this world that I can't begin to understand. I don't understand the universe or the possibilities of multiple dimensions. I honestly doubt whether or not my brain is inside my own head, how do I even know? How do I know this reality is even real?! The hours upon hours I've spent pondering this crap baffles me.

Why is this relevant? I have no solid proof, or even a solid founding, to base my beliefs on. Perhaps if I knew more of the universe the presence of a soul would become more clear. Or maybe the complete opposite would be true. I like to base my opinions on solid, hard fact and I have no facts to base my opinion on. So my opinion is absolutely worthless and holds no weighting, at all, in any way.

So why believe that a soul doesn't exists? From discussions I've had most people use the soul as a means of masking their fear of death. All this talk of "my soul living on" or "my soul being reborn" just confirms in my mind that death is really fucking scary. Not existing? Man that would suck balls. But it's a part of life and we just have to deal with it.

But this is the point I'd really like to elaborate upon. If the soul does exist and if it does live on, what good does that do to you? At the end of the day your not conscious of your souls previous experiences so it's not like your conscious of being alive at any other stage in time. If you die and your soul lives on "you" wouldn't know. Your memories, thoughts, opinions and beliefs you've established in this life would be gone. You'd literally be a new person, with new memories and beliefs with no conscious or subconscious realisation that your soul has been around for "xxxx" amount of years. Whether or not your soul exists your pretty boned regardless. I'd really like to hear the opinion of someone who disagrees with me on this point and how they came to their conclusions. If I wasn't so tired I'd spend a few more hours contemplating the idea.

Do you think that you can believe in the existence of a soul without it being tied to religion?

Sure, why not. People can believe anything they want. I've met a bunch of people that believe in "spiritual" concepts while not associating it with any form of religion. Someone could believe that we are just big tubes made of soul juice and our world is just a stitch in an infinity long jacket. It would be absolute nonsense, but they can believe it if they want. The soul isn't necessarily tied to religion by nature due to the amount of conjecture involved in the subject.


So to sum up this absolutely bullshit ramble, I believe they don't exist based on no logic what so ever simply because I think it's stupid. In my eyes who we are is a collection of our experiences and interactions, not some intangible object living inside my guts or whatever.

[Skyve]

Seems to me that the concept of a "soul" is religionless despite the fact that most religions will acknowledge the concept. What surprises me is why do most of us can easily believe in the idea that we have a soul but have difficulty in believing in a higher being (eg:God). As Gaige said, if you believe in souls, wouldn't you believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc.?

[poehalcho]

Seems to me that the concept of a "soul" is religionless despite the fact that most religions will acknowledge the concept. What surprises me is why do most of us can easily believe in the idea that we have a soul but have difficulty in believing in a higher being (eg:God). As Gaige said, if you believe in souls, wouldn't you believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc.?

no, cause ghosts and evil spirits are visible, detectable manifestations of such cases.
Whereas a soul can be interpreted more as an out of the body consciousness. No body, no influence on the real world, but it's there... possibly. That's how I always imagine it anyway...

[Rawr]

Soul is consciousness. And consciousness is a product of evolution from us to be able to survive better.

I don't consider there to be a soul. Acknowledging a soul would almost certainly mean you would have to believe in ghosts, spirits, god(s), and etc. Obviously I cannot fully disprove a soul (as much as I can disprove the flying spaghetti monster), but instead of acting like it exist, why don't people treat as something "possible" to exist instead of fact. There is not bit of evidence to back it up except people giving stories...

Agreed. A lot of people here claim that souls, ghosts, spirits, etc are visible to the human eye.
Let me go ahead and say this, I live on war grounds, there are probably a dozen native american and civil war soldiers that have perished on my property, maybe even a woolly mammoth or a T-rex. I live 5 miles away from a massive battle ground where there are thousands of graves, I've yet to see an anomaly.

[*BlackFox]

Ok, then how do you define soul?

Well, the soul contains everything that makes a person unique. Such as... emotions, through etc..
And Btw: "Soul" has nothing to do with religion!

I believe they don't exist based on no logic what so ever simply because I think it's stupid.
In my eyes who we are is a collection of our experiences and interactions, not some intangible object living inside my guts or whatever.

Who are "They" anyway?

[MrTwilliger]

"They" is referring to the thing I spent my entire post talking about, the entire discussion topic of this thread. You know, souls.

[Skyve]

"They" is referring to the thing I spent my entire post talking about, the entire discussion topic of this thread. You know, souls.

He likes to post in threads just for the sake of posting. That's our Blackfox* .

[*BlackFox]

^ Nah lulz
It Just sounded like.. Souls "aka alien" inhabiting human bodies.

[inky]

Thetans lol

[omier]

I believe that souls, spirits and ghosts do exist. Every living thing doesn't have a soul. Plants, mushrooms and such don't have it.

A soul isn't just created. Souls are recycled. Souls just are there outside time, just like I believe the universe to be, nothing created it, because creation is defined by time and there is no time outside the universe, there is nothing. A soul enters a body when it's in a mother's womb. An inseminated egg doesn't have a soul, because it's still just an egg. A sperm doesn't have a soul because it is only one of the components needed to create life.

After death, a soul can be bodyless for a short or a very long time. Then it reenters the body. Not just any body, I don't believe a soul to be universal. Human souls are reborn in human bodies etc.

So why believe that a soul doesn't exists? From discussions I've had most people use the soul as a means of masking their fear of death. All this talk of "my soul living on" or "my soul being reborn" just confirms in my mind that death is really fucking scary. Not existing? Man that would suck balls. But it's a part of life and we just have to deal with it.

I don't fear death. Death itself is not to be afraid of. For me the only fear that has to do with death is that I might die before accomplishing anything in my life, or my loved ones could be taken from me. Also, I don't believe that not existing is a part of life lol. Life is a part of existance and not existing is not a part of anything.

Let me go ahead and say this, I live on war grounds, there are probably a dozen native american and civil war soldiers that have perished on my property, maybe even a woolly mammoth or a T-rex. I live 5 miles away from a massive battle ground where there are thousands of graves, I've yet to see an anomaly.

Some people just don't see spirits and anomalies don't occur everywhere where there has been lots of deaths. Then all of Earth would be filled with ghosts considering how far the history of Earth reaches.

Do you think that you can believe in the existence of a soul without it being tied to religion?

If you think of religion as a belief of higher power(which basically is considered religion by most people, and me), then I'm an atheist. But if you read the definition at Wikipedia, then the belief of souls, ghosts and spirits are also a part of religion.

BTW, I also believe in fate. But I don't believe that everything is destined... But that is a discussion for another day.

[BuDo]

The concept of a soul in my opinion is just man's refusal to accept the possibility of returning to a state of complete non-existence after death....(Our trained conscious mind hard at work). Deep down we want to think that we'll continue to exist...whether its a soul or in the memory of the living....anything to cling to life...and cling to our individuality (at least most of us).....The thing is a lot of us are afraid (or just can't accept) that we might end up where we were before we existed....an unconscious void...

The human body and the environment in which that body was created enables and facilitate our consciousness...(brings it to light)...it seems that without this enabler we're doomed to revisit that void....We go as we came....But that very same void from where we all came from could be viewed as a soul.... a soul that is void of perception of self...void of consciousness but yet still a soul ....It's just not in a form we'd like..... This is just me speculating anyways....The truth is we don't know whats going on..