Was it wrong to dupe gold to expose SRO's weakness

hellsharpt · Post by **hellsharpt** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:41 pm

I'm not trying to start a flame war here so pleaase wether you love or hate chaud aand the rest of Fable lets keep that out of this. Stick to the issue.

I see some of Chaud's points (though I don't agree with his execution). I think too many innocents were affected (banned). Although keep in mind that he or others could have (as Chaud pointed out) done more damage over time had they kept it on a small scale. This way it will get addressed, even though we can't play for a while (and who knows what else).

Let's see what everyone thinks.

spins · Post by **spins** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:02 pm

i dont think they started out with the intention to expose anything. You could expose it without getting dirty money on your main account. :roll:

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:16 pm

I agree with spins. If the goal was to send a wakeup call to Joymax, it could have been done tactfully by duping gold on a single account and then contacting an SA to get Joymax's attention. All of Fable is well aware of this and many of them have come to me and/or Sutaseyu before about issues with the game. Instead they decided to get their rocks off playing god and being disruptive. Why? For infamy? Or maybe it was just apathy and cynical curiosity. In any case, these are people who rode the line for months between being real assets to our server, and being just a different type of pain in the ass from botters and CCFers. In the end, it's my opinion that as a group, Fable's need to be at the top overcame whatever pride they had in being legit. They started bruting accounts, scamming players, buying CCFed astrals, and now the duping. The only thing I really don't understand is how they can still think of themselves as a legit guild. Sorry boys, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Post by **Ryoko** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:17 pm

This poll is a trick question

You title thread :Was it wrong to dupe gold

But you title poll "Was it justified"

Takeshina · Post by **Takeshina** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:24 pm

i dont care what it was they did, or anyone's reasons for agreeing/disagreeing with it BUT i'm pissed off because the servers have been shut ALL DAY!! and if they rollback so many people are gonna get annoyed, a friend of mine got an SOS drop last night.. if we get rollback and he loses it >.<!! well i dunno.. but it's wasted my time.

hellsharpt · Post by **hellsharpt** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:29 pm

royko, my bad, you are correct. I can't modify the poll title though. It should all say was it wrong. I just figured out how bad I screwed the poll up. CAn it be deleted?

Bake and spin, agreed as I said the execution was way too extreme.

However imagine if thy had sold the method to a gold selling site, or what if others have been using this method for a while. Time will tell.

FK47 · Post by **FK47** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:32 pm

Taking into account that legit accounts of innocent players were banned because of Fable and their fcking egos, I strongly oppose what they did. It pisses me off more than the months of lag, bots and ccfed shit I've had to endure. I'm geniunely angry and disappointed, for the first ever time concerning this game.

nightbloom · Post by **nightbloom** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:39 pm

All I gotta say is this.

Chaud = Stewart

Solo · Post by **Solo** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:42 pm

Well...before anyone judges Chaud's actions, I think it is important to ask yourself what you would have done if you were the one who found a way to dupe gold. Don't say anything about what you think here; you can act all pretty and innocent but I bet 99% of players on sro would've done the same as Chaud. But maybe of done so in a different way or kept it to themselves.

Before you start pissing youselves over this incident look at the bigger picture. Those commiting illegal acts such as botting and selling gold are the real villains at hand. Chaud, found a way to get gold, he took advantage of it. So what? Sure it is morally bad but it is not on the scale of those bot, sell/buy gold, buy powerlvling services and so on. He should not feel the full blame of what has happened. Joymax themselves were the ones that were inadequate in the first place. Would you have reported it to Joymax had you found a way to dupe gold?

It has caused all the servers to shut down (I must admit annoying, but short term so I'll get over it). It has gotten innocent people involved. It has stuffed up the economy etc. However, it also got JM off their asses to do something about it. Again, you can also argue that all of this was JM's fault in the first place. They were the ones responsible for not having a secure enough system to prevent this stuff. Those involved that were innocent and banned have been unjustly treated. Tough Luck.

What Chaud did can be seen as both right and wrong according to you own morals and values. On the other hand, if he had hacked sro to dupe the gold then that is another matter. That is just downright wrong. Either way, the majority of people of sro should consider themselves lucky. This incident was caught onto quickly and had it been kept a secret then the long term damage would of being undoubtedly worse.

Hopefully, some good may come out of this. Having said that, I still don't think Joymax will eradicate or even prevent future events like this happening. Botters and CCFer's will always be around since this is an online game. This won't be something like a epithany for Joymax since I'm sure they were quite happy with their current state before all of this happened.

I like playing sro. I hope that JM can fix their problems so that this whole ordeal blows over and that some players don't f*ck it up anymore, so that rest of us such as myself can continue playing sro for a long time to come.

Miyoko · Post by **Miyoko** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:51 pm

Simply put, it's one big **** up.
This has nothing to do with trying to do any good for the servers, at all.
A whole bunch of innocent people are affected by this.
Chaud still goes about calling himself legit and that sorta crap. For you to know, exploiting bugs isn't what they call "legit". Doesn't matter if you do it once or a thousand times. You, can not call your self legit. Chaud, if you guys felt bad about the game, why make it worse for other people :?:

Yes, the "hole" in SRO's db got fixed and no this isn't the way to do shit like that.

If you guys just kept the gold on one account, JM would have certainly noticed the uge amount of cash and done something about it.
Instead you bought items from people and got them into problems.
That, is stupid.

nightbloom · Post by **nightbloom** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:54 pm

LMAO!

Read Bake's post. Fable wasnt just duping gold. THis is just the action that got them banned.

And legit ppl get banned, tough luck? WOW. How does the banning of legit players bring the problem of CCFing and botting to JM attention?

So by your logic this is just: group A bombs an orphanage in Uganda in protest of their neighbor who is taking advantage of SSI by faking an injury. A justifiable action? WHo are you kidding? The two actions are completely unrelated! All JM is going to see is a bunch of retards duping gold. 100 year ban, code fix, back to whatever it is they do.

Chaby · Post by **Chaby** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:02 pm

At this point I couldnt care less. For me it's OK, because it made GM's do something. And it proved that they can block CCF, but chose not to.

themskillz · Post by **themskillz** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:13 pm

Why does this poll exist? As one of the dupers ill say, OF COURSE IT WAS WRONG... but fun

oh ya nightbloom, if you hadnt seen me mention it before, minifly PMed me on tavern asking for 1 bil gold to be deposited on an account he created. tell him to stop bombing orphanages in uganda... lmfao

Zhen · Post by **Zhen** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:13 pm

Uh, Chaud says that the duping was the first and last illegit thing he did. And I believe him...I mean I'm legit too, but if I wanted to prove a point to JM, I would have done the same. But is it his fault that JM decided to ban innocent people? Well, yeah sort of, but JM doesn't have to really ban them for what Chaud did. And this just proves the point that JM can do something about "illegit" players. But it was ironic how they go after the innocent instead of those obvious bots.

Priam · Post by **Priam** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:18 pm

Ryoko wrote:This poll is a trick question

You title thread :Was it wrong to dupe gold

But you title poll "Was it justified"

Exactly.. i clicked no.. while i meant yes. I don't mind chaud doing all this. Though i think it's pretty dumb to get your account banned this way, even when you're gonna quit anyways. Especially since.... well your chaud... and people hate you.

zphantom · Post by **zphantom** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:26 pm

nightbloom wrote:LMAO!

Read Bake's post. Fable wasnt just duping gold. THis is just the action that got them banned.

you make it sound like he's been at it all along since day one. i see it as him being fed up with JM's lack of action

And legit ppl get banned, tough luck? WOW. How does the banning of legit players bring the problem of CCFing and botting to JM attention?

you know that's all JM's fault? lol...they're the one's banning. chaud put some at risk but ultimately it's JM's actions

So by your logic this is just: group A bombs an orphanage in Uganda in protest of their neighbor who is taking advantage of SSI by faking an injury. A justifiable action? WHo are you kidding? The two actions are completely unrelated! All JM is going to see is a bunch of retards duping gold. 100 year ban, code fix, back to whatever it is they do.

although the analogy is quite extreme and of course two wrongs don't make a right but... which is worse? the one who bombs or the one who has the power to prevent it and never does anything to stop it? does JM not see retards botting???

Solo · Post by **Solo** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:31 pm

nightbloom wrote:And legit ppl get banned, tough luck? WOW. How does the banning of legit players bring the problem of CCFing and botting to JM attention?

I never said that it would. I said that the innocent people who have been banned were unjustly treated. But what can Joymax or anyone do now? I don't see them unbanning accounts from users requesting for an unban without substantial proof that they were not involved. It is tough luck because they were caught in the crossfire and now have very little power to help themselves get up again. Like you said, JM is just going to see is a bunch of retards who duped gold just trying to act innocent to get their accounts back.

As for the how it brings the problem of CCFing and botting to JM's attention you should read what i said earlier.

Hopefully, some good may come out of this. Having said that, I still don't think Joymax will eradicate or even prevent future events like this happening. Botters and CCFer's will always be around since this is an online game. This won't be something like a epithany for Joymax since I'm sure they were quite happy with their current state before all of this happened.

If Joymax finally sees that furthur work needs to be done to improve the game then hopefully this incident could act as a wake up call to up the anti and crackdown on illegal means, though it is unlikely. Asforementioned, whether the actions of Chaud are justifiable is yet again decided by your own perspective. I don't know you personally but ask yourself - If you knew how to dupe gold what would you do? If your heart says you would do it then you are also labelling yourself as a 'retard'. If no, then good for you.

It doesn't change anything now anyway so argueing about this is pointless.

I'll go play sro now, cyas.

Animosity · Post by **Animosity** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:38 pm

Silkroad/Joymax weakness or not, just contact them and let them know about it. Don't actually do it. I used to play a browser based conquest game and found a exploit on there to raid an allies planet and make billions. After that I realize that it hurts games more than it helps them and I notified the management of bugs I found after that.

Sekhmet · Post by **Sekhmet** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:49 pm

zphantom wrote:although the analogy is quite extreme and of course two wrongs don't make a right but... which is worse? the one who bombs or the one who has the power to prevent it and never does anything to stop it? does JM not see retards botting???

I don't think anyone here is claiming that JM is doing a good job, personally after months in caves i would be crazy defending them since every room is always filled with HeroesVN and co botting.

Read what Kaela has said in this thread :

http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18700

Without a "scammer mentality" you would never find out how it was done and personally i don't think that it is such a good thing to have nor that it was the first time it was put to an use; the fact that they don't help JM to find a fix gives it away..

I don't know if the game is going to be down one day,one week or one month and i couldn't care less,what i know for sure is that JM won't change their attitude cos someone found an exploit, only a fool could believe it,hence i don't see the point in what happened.

The_KlNG · Post by **The_KlNG** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:55 pm

Ryoko wrote:This poll is a trick question

You title thread :Was it wrong to dupe gold

But you title poll "Was it justified"

Thats was mess up, i click on the wrong one. I meant to say it was justifed. WTF kind of poll is this??

EwwBabel · Post by **EwwBabel** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:58 pm

they did it so they wouldn't have to be embarassed after losing to me in a pvp. i only have 1-2 months of farming newbs, could have waited

Ryo-Ohki · Post by **Ryo-Ohki** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:16 pm

Poll deleted by request.

Lixiae · Post by **Lixiae** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:24 pm

spins wrote:i dont think they started out with the intention to expose anything. You could expose it without getting dirty money on your main account.

Chaud stated in another thread that they did not start out with the intention of being banned. Everything they are saying about their reasons of doing it is total and utter bs. They did for the gold, plain and simple. Their greed got them caught. I hope they enjoy their bans as much as I will enjoy continuing to grind and play this game.

Chaud · Post by **Chaud** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:29 pm

Lixiae wrote:
spins wrote:i dont think they started out with the intention to expose anything. You could expose it without getting dirty money on your main account.

Chaud stated in another thread that they did not start out with the intention of being banned. Everything they are saying about their reasons of doing it is total and utter bs. They did for the gold, plain and simple. Their greed got them caught. I hope they enjoy their bans as much as I will enjoy continuing to grind and play this game.

LOL ? You think JM would not have noticed us dumping 20 bil into the econ...

We didn't ccf, we didnt bot, didnt brute accnts.

NB, please don't talk about our actions when you don't play on Babel. Kthx.

Lixiae · Post by **Lixiae** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:39 pm

lol You're a pretty funny guy. Too bad you're so dam transparent and stupid lol

Suppaman · Post by **Suppaman** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:31 pm

wtf you can duplicate gold? im gone for like a day and i come back and see like a dozen threads like this... lolz nvm .. carry on ..

Brutish1 · Post by **Brutish1** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:00 pm

chaby how does this show that JM can stop CCF? There is a world of difference between changing 1 line of code to dealing with an outside credit card vendor.

IguanaRampage · Post by **IguanaRampage** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:48 pm

short answer: yes
long answer: yes, because they could have sent it in BUG REPORT. Lol doesnt take a genius to figure out that when u find a bug, the right way to notify the company is to report it. Though it may not be as effective in making JM do something as this brash way.

Chaud · Post by **Chaud** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:02 am

IguanaRampage wrote:short answer: yes
long answer: yes, because they could have sent it in BUG REPORT. Lol doesnt take a genius to figure out that when u find a bug, the right way to notify the company is to report it. Though it may not be as effective in making JM do something as this brash way.

They do not read bug reports.

NiteBlade · Post by **NiteBlade** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:11 am

I was wondering the same thing. Everyone seems to be going on and on about how this will wake the GM's up and they'll get off their asses to stop CCF'ers, GM's Have no control over CCF, that has to do with the credit card company's and the merchants. As for the Bots, well what can you do? GM's underwork (only 3 GM) don't really hear about silkroad assistants anymore are there any left? Only option is to report and hope they get to them sooner or later. What I wanna know is how did you come across this exploit? No one seems to be asking this question. I read all the reason they dupe gold. I mean were you just out one day and it just happened and you kept doing it. Or were you out trying to find exploits in the game? I dunno maybe I'm wrong maybe they were playing Robin Hood and giving the gold to the poor. I'm for one am not pissed I missed what 10 hours and I get a 7 day event hopefully I'll get a dam drop :twisted: