Occupy Wall street, Your Thoughts?

[Aventuris]

Government isn't helping us out enough and we're uniting to make a difference? Good, I'll trash struggling small business owners like myself and vandalize food carts that are feeding us. THAT'LL SHOW THEM.
I bet over half of the protesters don't even understand what they are protesting..

America. We can't fund anything in our own country, but we can fund wars with other countries.

Could you show me where this is happening on a larger scale than a few isolated cases? From what I have seen, these protests have been incredibly peaceful.

EDIT: Here's a very good short clip: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45366571#45366571

[BuDo]

When the rich are faced with situations that threatens their prospects of making money which could trickle down to affecting their way of life... they take action...not necessarily in the form of protesting but they put their brains and resources to work in order to protect their interests.

It seems the mark of the poor when facing similar problems is to hold up signs and cry...The rich is only powerful because we allow them to behave as such. They rely on us to make them rich and we allow it. We believe we don't have a choice because we're so entrenched into the system.

Not fully knocking the protesting but it seems the only purpose it serves is to make the rest of us aware which isn't a bad thing but it isn't enough to really put a dent into the situation.

[SM-Count]

Ofc some people will negatively affected by the protests- but that doesnt mean you should take the right to protest ~,~.
And generalizing everyone thats in the protests as "hipsters" is ignorant - every protest will have people that are there just to cause problems
Just cause you dont think you cant affect & cause changes doesnt mean those that do try to make changes are stupid

From what i can see:
They are against dumb wars
They are against business subsidies (i never get why some people think govt should be out of business but they support subsidies)
Bailouts (again same as above^)
They are for education+
They are against the high costs for running for office- especially corporations/special interests (like unions) being able to make large donations to candidates

That's kinda the problem, pointing out problems and offering no(read: bad) solutions is just annoying - not to mention pretty pointless.

I'm against war, a terrible trade and budget deficit, and definitely against crime, lemme go hold up signs in front of jails saying I'm against crime, that'll stop it.

[WoIfe]

Rich hipsters who have too much time. I agree with some of their points, the way they're going about it is completely and utterly retarded, makes me hate the fact that I agree even a small part of their agenda.

What is "retarded" about the way they are going about this?

[Fiction]

@ WoIfe... Da ****... You posted like 10x, you quoted me as saying all the protesters are hipsters... Which I didn't say.

Anyways... These kids need to learn that we have a government that waste trillions of dollars every year and cause these big businesses to act as they do.( for the idiots that don't realize I'm not saying the government is 100% at fault: The government isn't 100% at fault) Most the problems we have today with our economy can be traced back to poor government policy they should have never implemented in the first place.

Tom Coburn ( my own senator ) pretty much says it for me. LINK

[heroo]

Dude, I think you're new to the whole forum-thing but you really should change your posting style. You don't have to respond to everyone and if you do respond to several people, it's better to put everything in one post. Otherwise It's annoying to read all your posts.

Just some advice, that's all.

[Skyve]

Mob mentality?

[Breed]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted already, it sums up some general strong points of the movement in that one critical reaction to the protests is that discussion is being made about the state of America's (or wherever you live) systems for wealth distribution, corporate greed etc.
I find it saddening that people in this thread sit here and say that it's ridiculous for the protesters to ask for change if they don't know what exactly to ask for. They're getting out there and voicing their grievances, putting it into light so it can be discussed and THEN they can begin to gain solid direction and goals.

[_Dutchy_]

They're in the Netherlands too. They just recently started a camp at my parent's city (Arnhem). I walked by their camp two weeks ago and the stench was just unbelievable. The whole camp smelled of alcohol and marihuana. They're only making it worse for themselfes. Everyone that walks by their camp now thinks they're just a bunch of junkies.

Even though some parts of their message are true, they're taking the wrong actions.

Honestly i don't know what those people are protesting about, I don't think anybody in holland has anything to complain about everbody has chance of a good future. And if you don't get a good future here 99% of the time its your own fault

Explain where "here" is and how it would be 99% of their fault? other wise your point is very moot.

If you where reading my posts instead of qouting them all you would have seen Here is in holland, Where everybody gets schooling and if you get afford it the goverment pays for it. if you don't have a education in this country you fuqed up, If you can't get a job cuz of that you fuqed up aka the 1%

The OWS movement has grown so large in size that it can't be generalized, there's just too many people involved. Yes, you see the hipsters... but it's only ignorant to see this as the whole movement. Tons of people take part in the movement, 'normal' people with jobs and families to take care of. The message the protests are trying to get out has also expanded significantly. The main focus of the protests is the fact that corporations can use their wealth (or lack thereof) to influence government in all areas. With the mass of people taking part in the protests now though, the things people protest has also increased (i.e. useless wars, police brutality, etc...)

We've been talking about the OWS stuff a lot on my english class and I really haven't seen many people oppose it like here. Mind to expand on your arguements on why you don't or partially not support it?

~ Avent

its cool to be against everything popular in the real world on teh internetz

So the small restaurants going out of business the flower shops and all the small business owned by poeple are hurting the coperation ? no your hurting the little man

[SM-Count]

Rich hipsters who have too much time. I agree with some of their points, the way they're going about it is completely and utterly retarded, makes me hate the fact that I agree even a small part of their agenda.

What is "retarded" about the way they are going about this?

Do not ever have a novemple? (nonaple? enneaple? wtf do you even call 9 back to back posts) post back to back with a triple post, you can make one giant post and respond to everyone. Second, you clearly don't read the threads you reply in or you'll already have found your answer so there's no point in answering you again.

[MrTwilliger]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted already, it sums up some general strong points of the movement in that one critical reaction to the protests is that discussion is being made about the state of America's (or wherever you live) systems for wealth distribution, corporate greed etc.
I find it saddening that people in this thread sit here and say that it's ridiculous for the protesters to ask for change if they don't know what exactly to ask for. They're getting out there and voicing their grievances, putting it into light so it can be discussed and THEN they can begin to gain solid direction and goals.

Whilst I respect some of the points this man had to say, I find myself sitting here thinking that he has no real idea what he is trying to convey. I mean, the majority of what he had to say was in regards to News Corp and the role of the media in conveying censored information, which is a fair and valid point in itself. But even when the news reporter gave him the opportunity to convey anything he wants, right then and there, he didn't really know exactly what to say. He didn't give a suggestion to what exactly needs changing or what the ideal solution would be. Rather, he just quoted a clip from history and than later hinted on the idea how he wants to talk to the president. I don't know if it's only me who thinks like this, but I get a bit of a feeling that they don't have an economically feasible solution up their sleeves that justifies the time and effort of probably the most important man in America. And, if by some chance they've had the for-thought to conceive such an idea or a plan, well, this guy has just missed his chance to say it.

[*BlackFox]

And, if by some chance they've had the for-thought to conceive such an idea or a plan, well, this guy has just missed his chance to say it.

Maybe.. he didn't dare to say he's idea?

[Breed]

Whilst I respect some of the points this man had to say, I find myself sitting here thinking that he has no real idea what he is trying to convey. I mean, the majority of what he had to say was in regards to News Corp and the role of the media in conveying censored information, which is a fair and valid point in itself. But even when the news reporter gave him the opportunity to convey anything he wants, right then and there, he didn't really know exactly what to say. He didn't give a suggestion to what exactly needs changing or what the ideal solution would be. Rather, he just quoted a clip from history and than later hinted on the idea how he wants to talk to the president. I don't know if it's only me who thinks like this, but I get a bit of a feeling that they don't have an economically feasible solution up their sleeves that justifies the time and effort of probably the most important man in America. And, if by some chance they've had the for-thought to conceive such an idea or a plan, well, this guy has just missed his chance to say it.

I can only answer this problem of 'No real resolutions' by saying that he is debating the merit of talking to the "Propaganda Machine" which is News Corp. and expressing his general discontent with the economic climate in America at the moment. While the Fox news reporter claims that they are "Fair and balanced" they did not air the clip, I suspect because it made them look quite bad and HAD he cited any frightening statistics that it would have only been buried deeper in their archive filed under "Threatens News Corp."

At the very start when the Fox News reporter is trying to drag him into subtly supporting the violence and police involvement by asking if the movement is following the Greek protests and if they wanted to "Incite attention and... police activity.." he states that the movement is "spontaneous" which I believe is a good word to describe Occupy Wall Street. America is in need of some serious financial reform and though he didn't cite any statistics, I will here and here. I mean with tax breaks for the rich and a system where the need of few dominates the need of many there is bound to be an uneducated yet passionate revolt, much like the Cahiers De Doléances in the French Revolution.

I will add though that some solid and realistic demands have been made clear through the movement such as justice for those effected by the manipulation of the American financial system (those who played large roles in the recent financial crash in particular), a greater distribution of wealth and future regulation on Wall Street so that such crashes aren't as likely in the future. All the discussion created by the movement and future activity will only bring everyone closer to feasible ideas to fix the broken system.

[MrTwilliger]

Personally I believe it's not really the most effective way to get a message across, though. I mean, with the way technology has advanced and the increasing appearance of non-commercial media outlets (free to air radio, blogs, websites, v-blogs, the list goes on) it's so much easier to get a clear, defined message out with the world being your audience. A bunch of 'spontaneous' outbursts won't really solve as much as one may think and will only cause the general public to look down upon their actions (I'll use this thread as a great example; the majority of the posters here believe it's the work of idiotic hipsters). Protesting is a great way to draw attention to a matter, sure, but without some solid backing and momentum-gaining strategies than most of the time no real reform will come about.

For real change to be brought about there needs to be a plan and some leadership. Sure, it's hard to manage and maintain with this sort of a protest, but imagine how much more effective it would be if a charismatic, informed person created a similar video themselves and uploaded it to Youtube. With people having such a keen interest in this event it would be a flaming success. A 2-3 minute speech quoting a few stats, showing pictures of poor kids going hungry, you know, all the emotional crap. Add in their their goals and aims: To reform government and overthrow the capitalist society, bring about a tax reform based on the circumstances of each individual and the nature of the industry, whatever. I have no idea what they are complaining about so I can't fight their wars for them. But with no direction and aim, without a more clear goal than "doing more Jesus stuff", I feel that all of their efforts are wasted and in a few weeks no one will even care any more.

Imagine how good it would of been if somewhere in the video he said "Go to http://www.americanreform.com [ <-- Don't actually click this link as it just so happens to be a spam website] to show your support!" or something along those line, the free publicity and emotional views would be unreal. Rally some support, list aims and goals, develop a plan for change and implement it. Create a political party, rally awareness for it, attract votes and use the system to benefit the cause. If people use the tools that are available to them and rally support of the collective than making an actual change is quite possible.

Don't get me wrong, if there's a problem with their base system than I'm not one to say they shouldn't try and change it. But if I'm to generalise his actions and the few reports I've read as a typical example for the nature of the protests than it just seems too unfocused to do any real good.

Just my thoughts.

[TheDrop]

Ofc some people will negatively affected by the protests- but that doesnt mean you should take the right to protest ~,~.
And generalizing everyone thats in the protests as "hipsters" is ignorant - every protest will have people that are there just to cause problems
Just cause you dont think you cant affect & cause changes doesnt mean those that do try to make changes are stupid

From what i can see:
They are against dumb wars
They are against business subsidies (i never get why some people think govt should be out of business but they support subsidies)
Bailouts (again same as above^)
They are for education+
They are against the high costs for running for office- especially corporations/special interests (like unions) being able to make large donations to candidates

That's kinda the problem, pointing out problems and offering no(read: bad) solutions is just annoying - not to mention pretty pointless.

I'm against war, a terrible trade and budget deficit, and definitely against crime, lemme go hold up signs in front of jails saying I'm against crime, that'll stop it.

Its not pointless to point out the problems and the things they are against (in a democracy)- they are supposed to voice their opinions and hopefully the politicians understand what they are for.
And i dont see how hard it is to figure out the solutions from what they want (at least from what i listed)
wars - dont fight wars
business subsidies - dont give business subsidies maybe, not sure.
bailouts - dont give bailouts?
Education+ - increase spending in education
Against high costs for running for office- now this ofc harder ;p

[/Pi]

Too late

[Breed]

The fact that people in this thread believe that they are idiotic hipsters isn't due to the movement not having a leader it is the result of the conservative medias stance on subjects they do not understand or see to be threatening, that being to spread disinformation and fear monger the world. It was discussed in the first video I posted but another SHINING example of their work is that Fox News dubbed the recent (poor) assassination attempt of Obama with this brilliant headline with, as usual, ZERO linking evidence.

In terms of speeches of goals or figure heads though no one has claimed responsibility or looked to lead Occupy Wall Street here are a few of the things you might be looking for in terms of spokespersons

Keith Olbermann has been great







Danny Glover dropped in recently



Michael Moore too!



There have been quite a few more notable appearances such as Julian Assange, Slavoj Žižek and many notable musicians such as Tom Morello and Kanye's hilarious visit.

If you're looking for more over emotional with lesser graded celebrities look no further than the string of army and police personnel, economists.

FINALLY there are many sites that are promoted for information on the movement, assembly and news about the movement such as Occupy NY, Portland and our very own Australia(which is very new obviously!). Those are 3 cities I googled and for each city (in America) you would have a specific site.

I'm trying not so much to focus on this one guy's interview as much as the entire movement. I posted the video as it was so general and in contrast to a lot of the comments which I believed to be misinformed or at least one sided. Once again I don't think they need a mascot, they are "The People", they are expressing their grievances and as a group they don't need a body for that. I can't be bothered spell checking this so I hope I got it all.

[TheDrop]

^About fox news, i remember when the movement first started it was basically articles about being anti-capitalistic, communist etc . Then for some reason people (very dumb people) thought that the articles from Fox werent total bs so they made articles in their own newspapers linking the Fox articles

[Breed]

^About fox news, i remember when the movement first started it was basically articles about being anti-capitalistic, communist etc . Then for some reason people (very dumb people) thought that the articles from Fox werent total bs so they made articles in their own newspapers linking the Fox articles

Fox News is a joke.
These were hard to watch but I try to laugh.

[BuDo]

Well I hope that this movement sparks significant action. Because all that ever really brings about any significant change or reinforce a cause is action.

[Fiction]

Hell of a line up... A bunch of anti-capitalist that became rich off the capitalist system. I love hypocrites too. My problem with OWS still remains what their planned end game results are... I was speaking to a few of them... After they got done running down some recent lefty documentaries they had over loaded on, they started talking about how they want to get rid of capitalism and usher in a new system... Then I think back to the old saying, " the only problem with socialism is you run out of other people's money to spend." they assured me that the new system was not socialism... then they began to describe it to me... Bam! Socialism...

I find it very frustrating when a man believe he's helping someone out by giving a fish apposed to teaching one how to fish. These social programs we waste so much of our tax money on only breed lazy ungrateful people(who ofc vote demo). We need a government that will GTFO of the free market system and GTFO of our everyday life and GTFO of all the areas it was never meant to be in. It's a government by the people for the people... Democrat or republican... They're both way out of line. Get the government under control and wall street will fall in line by the power of the consumer.. No fcking too big to fail bullshit...

[Doron]

I came across this camp yesterday in Utrecht. THEY'RE IN HOLLAND NOW TOO!

Respect though. Like hell I'll ever sleep in a tent, summer or winter.

[SM-Count]

Ofc some people will negatively affected by the protests- but that doesnt mean you should take the right to protest ~,~.
And generalizing everyone thats in the protests as "hipsters" is ignorant - every protest will have people that are there just to cause problems
Just cause you dont think you cant affect & cause changes doesnt mean those that do try to make changes are stupid

From what i can see:
They are against dumb wars
They are against business subsidies (i never get why some people think govt should be out of business but they support subsidies)
Bailouts (again same as above^)
They are for education+
They are against the high costs for running for office- especially corporations/special interests (like unions) being able to make large donations to candidates

That's kinda the problem, pointing out problems and offering no(read: bad) solutions is just annoying - not to mention pretty pointless.

I'm against war, a terrible trade and budget deficit, and definitely against crime, lemme go hold up signs in front of jails saying I'm against crime, that'll stop it.

Its not pointless to point out the problems and the things they are against (in a democracy)- they are supposed to voice their opinions and hopefully the politicians understand what they are for.
And i dont see how hard it is to figure out the solutions from what they want (at least from what i listed)
wars - dont fight wars
business subsidies - dont give business subsidies maybe, not sure.
bailouts - dont give bailouts?
Education+ - increase spending in education
Against high costs for running for office- now this ofc harder ;p

Those aren't solutions, solution is a 'how' not a 'what'. Without restructuring the whole government (which would take at least 20 years - that still being a very conservative estimate) something as simple as 'increase spending in education' means 3 things. 1. Where do we cut money from? It is NOT easy to just say cut it from military spending because then unemployment will rise because of soldiers out of work, soldiers get education benefits for college so that'll be even more expensive. 2. Bigger block grants = bigger oversight = more money to fund oversight = a shit ton more expensive. 3. Effectiveness of money, does pouring more money into public schools even help or should they give tax cuts to private school enrollment? etc. There's way more issues to consider than just 'do X because X is good', if that's all you say you're just whining about how bad life is and being annoying.

Also they're shutting down small businesses now? lol

[Fiction]

SM I think that's one of their biggest problems. They lack foresight. They think just because something sounds good on paper it can work in the real world. (communism sounds good on paper, but we all know how it turns out)


This video pretty much sums up their entitlement agenda... I've seen about 10:1 of these self entitled clueless OWS protesters vs a kid that might know a little bit about what he's standing for. I still wonder where these kids got the idea that they are entitled to riches just because they got a degree or because they were born in America. I'm sure the 51% of us 99%ers that actually bust our ass off at work and are thankful for what we get are getting tired of these kids trying to speak for the rest of us. The Tea Party got their point across with out a single person taking a dump on the side walk, or without raping anyone. Nor did they try to cause problems for local businesses or other folks. That's how a peaceful protest is supposed to be... not some camp out for months being a lazy ass unproductive douche bag crying about not having all the money you believe to be entitled to.

[_Dutchy_]

SM I think that's one of their biggest problems. They lack foresight. They think just because something sounds good on paper it can work in the real world. (communism sounds good on paper, but we all know how it turns out)


This video pretty much sums up their entitlement agenda... I've seen about 10:1 of these self entitled clueless OWS protesters vs a kid that might know a little bit about what he's standing for. I still wonder where these kids got the idea that they are entitled to riches just because they got a degree or because they were born in America. I'm sure the 51% of us 99%ers that actually bust our ass off at work and are thankful for what we get are getting tired of these kids trying to speak for the rest of us. The Tea Party got their point across with out a single person taking a dump on the side walk, or without raping anyone. Nor did they try to cause problems for local businesses or other folks. That's how a peaceful protest is supposed to be... not some camp out for months being a lazy ass unproductive douche bag crying about not having all the money you believe to be entitled to.

I think its a generation thing more then anything, I've been thougt to work hard for the money i own. I've seen my dad struggle and give it his all to earn money for his kids. I have a feeling most kids my age 20 ish Think they have the right to get great riches but without working hard for it

[TheDrop]

I love how bill o'reily invites peoples to his show then doesnt even let them finish what they wanted to say- and then dodges the facts by totally changing the subject

Hell of a line up... A bunch of anti-capitalist that became rich off the capitalist system. I love hypocrites too. My problem with OWS still remains what their planned end game results are... I was speaking to a few of them... After they got done running down some recent lefty documentaries they had over loaded on, they started talking about how they want to get rid of capitalism and usher in a new system... Then I think back to the old saying, " the only problem with socialism is you run out of other people's money to spend." they assured me that the new system was not socialism... then they began to describe it to me... Bam! Socialism...

I find it very frustrating when a man believe he's helping someone out by giving a fish apposed to teaching one how to fish. These social programs we waste so much of our tax money on only breed lazy ungrateful people(who ofc vote demo). We need a government that will GTFO of the free market system and GTFO of our everyday life and GTFO of all the areas it was never meant to be in. It's a government by the people for the people... Democrat or republican... They're both way out of line. Get the government under control and wall street will fall in line by the power of the consumer.. No fcking too big to fail bullshit...

I still find the "anti-capitalists" bit very funny. probably got it from fox news.
If you want the gov't to be totally out of the market then you are basically saying no regulations, monopolies, no minimum wage, child labor, etc.
Oh and ofc, no corporate bailouts and no farm/business subsidies. Which is what these people are against.

[Fiction]

UnbeatableDevil... I have yet to read a post of yours that actually was worth reading... (pretty sure I already said I wouldn't reply to your post anyone... but eh.)

I got the "Anti-Capitalists" "bit" from those individuals own words you tard... I figured a shallow minded kid like yourself would find it funny. I no longer have any kind of cable service, so I don't watch the MSM or Fox. Government was meant to lay down guide lines, but never to interfere like they have.

Like I said before, I share similar beliefs with the OWS people... but I'm not naive enough to believe the shit that Michael Moore and all these other progressive bleeding hearts spew out -while they make millions off it.

[*BlackFox]

I'll Just leave this here.

[the.unseen.]

Hell of a line up... A bunch of anti-capitalist that became rich off the capitalist system. I love hypocrites too. My problem with OWS still remains what their planned end game results are... I was speaking to a few of them... After they got done running down some recent lefty documentaries they had over loaded on, they started talking about how they want to get rid of capitalism and usher in a new system... Then I think back to the old saying, " the only problem with socialism is you run out of other people's money to spend." they assured me that the new system was not socialism... then they began to describe it to me... Bam! Socialism...

I find it very frustrating when a man believe he's helping someone out by giving a fish apposed to teaching one how to fish. These social programs we waste so much of our tax money on only breed lazy ungrateful people(who ofc vote demo). We need a government that will GTFO of the free market system and GTFO of our everyday life and GTFO of all the areas it was never meant to be in. It's a government by the people for the people... Democrat or republican... They're both way out of line. Get the government under control and wall street will fall in line by the power of the consumer.. No fcking too big to fail bullshit...

ah the randroid runs deep in this person. Let me guess you think Ron Paul is the greatest thing ever and your dream is to join the Ca to institute. Because you sir sound just the libertarian nut jobs of the tea party.

[Fiction]

Haven't heard 10 minutes of anything Ron Paul has said.. My views are more Libertarian... Nice baseless nut job comment too. Can I get someone that isn't a progressive kid that doesn't spit up the same old worn out lines... Next you'll call me a racist or a bigot...