[Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread

[KillAndChill]

So I play with 2 friends every so often, atm we're doing games vs comps. Usually 2Hard and 1VeryHard, or 3hard. randoms.

We are Zerg (Me), Terran, and Protoss.

No matter what I do, I either get wiped out or barely survive the initial hit, as its usually 2 or 3 of their first armies hittin my base. I can't block off, and Im unsure what to do really to defend myself. Curious what my options are besides ask them to block off my base lets say. And I know they need to pitch in possibly as its 3v1 or 2v1 in that hit, but wanna know what I can personally do.

Bulk up on spine crawlers at entrances? Mass speedlings? Mix Roach and Lings?

I like zerg, but im wondering if they aren't able to really hold off this type of thing like other races. But before I give up on them for our 3vWhatever, I am curious of input.

Id personally like to move onto player matches once we feel confident enough, and curious if Zerg is even a good choice for a 3 person team or not. I feel it is if I knew how to use it correctly.

Scout the attack and get everyone ready. If you scout then there is no need to make early defensive structures. Just make them when they move out.

[SM-Count]

So I play with 2 friends every so often, atm we're doing games vs comps. Usually 2Hard and 1VeryHard, or 3hard. randoms.

We are Zerg (Me), Terran, and Protoss.

No matter what I do, I either get wiped out or barely survive the initial hit, as its usually 2 or 3 of their first armies hittin my base. I can't block off, and Im unsure what to do really to defend myself. Curious what my options are besides ask them to block off my base lets say. And I know they need to pitch in possibly as its 3v1 or 2v1 in that hit, but wanna know what I can personally do.

Bulk up on spine crawlers at entrances? Mass speedlings? Mix Roach and Lings?

I like zerg, but im wondering if they aren't able to really hold off this type of thing like other races. But before I give up on them for our 3vWhatever, I am curious of input. If you really want the achievement and ur on US hit me up.

Id personally like to move onto player matches once we feel confident enough, and curious if Zerg is even a good choice for a 3 person team or not. I feel it is if I knew how to use it correctly.

attach a replay, easier to know what you're doing wrong now

[poehalcho]

I'm gonna get this game soon. I'm justing quickly rushing through starcraft 1 first, so I'm up to date with the story. I'm now at the final terran mission in broodwar. Then just the zerg left and I can buy the game. I will wait for my test week to finish first though

I've been watching commentaries for a while now. I'll share my favorite ones

Spoiler!

[hitokiri]

2nd 1v1 game. got about equally annihilated.

I know im not expanding fast enough, other then that I just dont know what Im doing yet. So, give me tips on just playing in general as well as what you would have done in this specific game.

In the game before, was versus protoss, and was hit by stalkers/some immortals. What would you counter this with?

Wouldnt let me attach replay, so i uploaded.

[Azilius]

After you put down your spawning pool you didn't make anything for a while. You should always be making drones.

Expand on 21 food if you're going pool first.

Always, always, always use your larva early game.

If you don't know what to make, make drones.

If you messed up and your money ran high (1000 is quite high early game), make another hatchery in your base and use it to make more units.

[hitokiri]

Alright, ill keep in mind. I did a few 1v1s with a friend after this game, made sure to aggressively expand like you're supposed to and it made a big difference. Still have to manage my larvae and just keep moving early game as you said, but I can see the more you play the more you pick up.

[MrJoey]

Protip: Don't be bad. Problem?


<3

[SM-Count]

What's your game plan going into that game? I can easily just say your mechanics are bad but that's true for everyone and doesn't help. It's easier to analyze what you did wrong if you tell me your game plan so I actually know what you were aiming to do rather than guess for myself/impose what I would do in a game on you.

[hitokiri]

Honestly, I dont know what to go for sometimes.

Im not sure what to open with. It seemed the toss player went immortal/stalker, and the terrans go marauders/marines/tanks. I thought Roaches wouldnt work well as i think the armored units would take them easy. So im trying to learn a hydra/speedlings build, would that work and be able to hold off those opening attacks? End with a mix of Lings, Ultras, and Hydras.

Like I said, I really dont know what to go for, what to pick up on when scouting to counter, and so on.

I guess some good strategies for those beginning brackets? what I should look for and counter with maybe? build orders, etc.

Appreciated

[McLovin1t]

I'm not a zerg player (I play protoss) but here are some pro tips
If you scout and see your opponent making a bunch of rax, gateways, or an early pool, this may seem obvious, but DO NOT EXPAND EARLY. If you do this, then you are essentially opening yourself up for an attack. However, if you are 100% sure the opponent won't attack you, then go for it.

[poehalcho]

Honestly, I dont know what to go for sometimes.

Im not sure what to open with. It seemed the toss player went immortal/stalker, and the terrans go marauders/marines/tanks. I thought Roaches wouldnt work well as i think the armored units would take them easy. So im trying to learn a hydra/speedlings build, would that work and be able to hold off those opening attacks? End with a mix of Lings, Ultras, and Hydras.

Like I said, I really dont know what to go for, what to pick up on when scouting to counter, and so on.

I guess some good strategies for those beginning brackets? what I should look for and counter with maybe? build orders, etc.

Appreciated

I think mass muta is the way to go if you wanna destroy tanks and marauders, seeing as neither can shoot air. So your main concern is the marines which are pretty powerful against muta's. Maybe muta baneling or muta speedlings? I'm sure the opponent will give priority to destroying the banelings over the muta's so you'll get free shots, or the muta's over the zerglings, letting your zerglings close in and murder the marines... then freebies on the tanks... But you'll still need a lot of em in order to get to the tanks without dying...

Same should work against stalker/immortal as well, probably easier to pull off without the tank support.

Also keep in mind that roaches can move underground (don't know about the other units, I don't own the game yet:P). You can use burrow to close in on the tanks and unburrow when you're too close to get shot.

[SM-Count]

Well to play exactly 120% better, write down somewhere (or just have in your head, but it's easier to write down cause if your flustered you can just look) what your game plan is. You will also play about 60% faster (+- 30%) once you do this because you'll know the next step to take every time. Also, don't focus too much on units, the plan should be mostly a macro plan.

e.g. "Early game I want a fast hatch and to drone pump unless I scout early aggression. If it's 4 gate then stop drone pumping and build crawlers + units. If it's 2 base 6 gate then roach warren before lair and drone pump until roach warren is done"
"Mid game I want 3 expansions with 5 hatches and +2/+2 and I will attack with +2/+2 while taking my fourth"

That way if something screws up your build or your super nervous, you can just think about your game plan. If you've held off early game aggression and you don't know what to do now you can look back to your plan and start adding evo chambers and a third cause you want 3 bases and +2/+2.

What NOT to do is plan out every single scenario, the game plan is an outline that will keep you on track after you deal with a scenario. Even if you rush lair to get overseers and hydra den to deal with cloak banshees, don't suddenly make hydra ling off 2 base, you want roach/hydra +2/+2 off 3 base.

If you want to adapt, make sure it's a practiced adaptation, don't just hydra/ling cause you think you can kill him right now unless you've practiced it and it actually can kill T, cause if you don't kill him your farked and don't know what to do, it'll be too late to get 3 bases.

[Nick Invaders]

I go 15 hatch 15 pool. I go for fast speedlings and then fast lair. Depending on what I scout I'll either go muta ling (with infestors later) or stop the ling production and go roach hydra. In late game, I usually go for broodlords.
I favor the more mobile builds, so muta ling into infestor suits me well.

If you scout and see the guy is going for more production facilities, prepare for an attack and build up your forces. If you see a double gas at the start of a game or an expansion, either build up forces and attack very quickly or expand (I favor expanding). He'll be teching up to higher tier unit so he won't attack for a while.
Also, whenever you attack, try to expand, he'll most likely stay in his base for a few minutes. That's when you can saturate your new base and get even more production capabilities.

In zerg vs zerg, I normally tech to roaches. Instead of spending the first 100 gas on zergling speed, I go for a fast +1 ranged attack for roaches. As long as you can defend your base from zergling run bys you should be fine. Be aggressive and don't let down on the pressure. Your fast +1 attack roaches should demolish pretty much anything the other guy has.

Helpful tips:
-Build drones when you think you are safe. Scouting helps make sure you know when to build drones and when to produce military units. Lots of drones allows you to build up massive armies in short amounts of time later on in a game.
-Spread lots of creep. It gives you vision of the map and allows your ground units to move faster. I'd recommend a queen specifically designated to building creep tumors.
-Exploit everything. Attack where your enemy is not. My army tends to die vs most Terran and Protoss armies head on (though in a lot of instances zerg armies can annihilate if you position yourself well). If you can keep them in their base, it allows you to macro up more bases and eventually pick them apart.

And remember playing the game helps you a lot. Sure you'll lose a lot of the first few games, but later, if you're a smart player, you'll win a lot. I won about 65% of my games before the recent patch simply from knowing what to do in certain situations (I hate that it doesn't show how many times you lose now unless you are in Master's league). You might not win as much as me, but experience helps build a lot of knowledge about what to do. Losing isn't necessarily bad, you can learn from your mistakes.

[hitokiri]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I won a 1v1 game against the terran friend i mention, it was a slightly slower paced game though. I had expanded before he hit me, and managed to hit him front and back and clear out his forced and recover my main base. I made mutas to do this, and after he was killed, i swung them around his base to harass his mineral gathering. Wiped it all out, did a hit and run since I know my mutas would be picked off easy. Was able to keep up the harassing and hold off his attacks while I got more bases rolling and finally won. My main thing is getting the early game moving strong though, so more games to do so thanks again for help ill keep it all in mind

[Scarth]

Ladder Reset fail.
Ranked 17th Silver before reset, play a gold player in my placement, get placed 79th orso after my win.
ಠ_ಠ

[Azilius]

Ladder Reset fail.
Ranked 17th Silver before reset, play a gold player in my placement, get placed 79th orso after my win.
ಠ_ಠ

Rank is meaningless anyway as divisions are not all equal.

[Animus]

HelpfulCopper level tips :
-Build drones when you think you are safe. Scouting helps make sure you know when to build drones and when to produce military units. Lots of drones allows you to build up massive armies in short amounts of time later on in a game.
Only build drones when you know you're safe. Manyyyyy times zergs get rofl stomped with a mediocre pushes cuz they over-drone.
-Spread lots of creep. It gives you vision of the map and allows your ground units to move faster. I'd recommend multiple queen specifically designated to building creep tumors.
O.K. decent tip.
-Exploit everything. Attack where your enemy is not. My army tends to die vs most Terran and Protoss armies head on (though in a lot of instances zerg armies can annihilate if you position yourself well). If you can keep them in their base, it allows you to macro up more bases and eventually pick them apart.

This is real copper level attitude. Zerg was *meant* to send many waves of units until the other opponent breaks, but that isn't the case in the current meta-game. Terran don't really have deathballs, they get roflstomped by a decent unit comp army. Toss has it's deathball moments, but in no way are they impossible to beat, mass 3/3 roaches with mass corruptors + couple of broodlings is pretty hard to beat with the usual deathball (stalker/colosi/sentry).

And remember playing the game helps you a lot. Sure you'll lose a lot of the first few games, but later, if you're a smart player, you'll win a lot. I won about 65% of my games before the recent patch simply from knowing what to do in certain situations (I hate that it doesn't show how many times you lose now unless you are in Master's league). You might not win as much as me, but experience helps build a lot of knowledge about what to do. Losing isn't necessarily bad, you can learn from your mistakes.

Ok for builds....

Lately I've been having trouble using a speedling expand, because its so weak [to fight head on] mid game against higher level players.

I then found the roach.

3/3 roaches basically rape any ground army. ANY ground army. The only really way to get rid of them is mass immortal, but they r so phucked if you tech switch to mutas, which is really easy since corruptors and roaches are bread and butter(You should get a spire in the game anyway, is what im trying to say)

Don't. EVER. get. hydras.

They are they worst unit in the game, sure they may have very high dps, but they are basically an all in unit if you go attack your opponent. They simply can't retreat off creep. "BUT WHY WOULD U ATTACK IF YOU HAVE HARDLY ANY CREEP SPREAD?!?!" Simple. Hydras get killed so easily by collosi and tanks. The only real way to use them is to go attack them before ur opponent gets the tech to get collosi and tanks. Hydras are also extremely dependent on other units (roaches, speedlings.) You don't really need anti-air till late game. Massing queens ( a very good idea to spread creep like crazy and having a kick ass anti-air) is better then the hydra in my opinion, for the sake of AA)

Some easy BO's for a low level bronze are:

[Google these if I don't provide build order]

*7 roach rush into an expansion right away. [use this to get into gold+ easily, no use in practicing ur macro in bronze level matches since they wont teach u anything but to win againts bad opponents]

*14 gas/14 pool

You basically get your gas first and THEN ur pool. The point of this is when the pool finishes you should have ~250 minerals and ~100 gas, which you can use to start speed for ling and a queen. This is also my fav build against terran.

*14 hatch/14 pool

The safest hatch first openings. This build has been stated by IdrA and other pro zergs as a pretty good way to secure a win against aggresive openings like a 2 rax [may also beat 2 gate if you put a roach warren right after ur pool.] A 15 hatch would come late against a 2 rax/gate if done correctly.


Ok now for build comps.

vs terran:

1. If they go pure MMM [marine, marauder, and medivac]---> You go speedling/baneling/muta [infestors can replace mutas if you want to end the match quicker]

*Don't over due it on the muta. A lot of noob zergs go for mass muta, only to get raped if they get attacked head on. Mutas were NOT ment to be a direct engaging unit, they are for harassing purposes. If they go heavy on the marauder and medivac, you respond with less banelings and more mutas+speedlings. If they go heavy on the marine, you NEED to cut back on the mutas and get more banelings/speedlings/infestors.


2. If the terran goes bio-mech into heavy mech..You need to contain the hell out of them and get ur broodlords out asap. Its extremely hard to beat a heavy mech build as zerg. Mutas get raped by mass marines/thors [the terran will always get mass marines, since they are a mineral dump].
A strong mech push doesn't come early in the game since it requires a lot of gas. The best thing to do is to go HEAVY on the roaches with broodlords + corruptors. Chances are they WILL get vikings, but with a little bit of mass queen micro, your broodlords can get tank a large amount of vikings. Note that vikings arent really cheap if massed. Their ground army will be weak if they need to mass vikings, leaving ur roaches to clean up.

Toss=

Google "how to beat 4 gate as zerg"

That is all they will do for a lot of games.

Deathball counters:

Gateway units [Zealot,stalker, sentry] heavy and some collosi.

Mass roaches with maybe 5-6 hydra and around 2-3 corruptors per collosi [mid game]. In late game just add some broodlords and dont directly engage ur opponent if you can run away with your army. Broodlings make collosi retarded.

Heavy on collosi + decent amount of gateway units

This build needs a little bit of tweaking to beat. You basically need to make a lot more corruptors and mass roaches. Engage the collosi with ur corruptors first, the lack of stalkers and sentries will make the collosi very vulnerable to air (corruptors are tanks...they are very difficult to beat..even for stalkers). Then engage with ur roaches, if you somehow are losing with ur roaches...back off and morph broodlords to take care of what ever is left. (you can also make 1-2 max broodlords before you engage. (broodlings arent as effective against mass collosi with ground support.

A new build toss likes to do is voidray+collosi+gateway units.

This was very hard for me because i always beat everything except the voidrays, which cleaned up my roaches if i couldnt get enough air support. I found a way to easily get rid of them. Mass roaches with mass corruptors. They wont have a lot of collosi and void ray since they are really hard to mass up both, so they lack in either one. Overkill on the corruptors is ur best bet. 3/3 roaches cannot be beaten by gateway units alone, and 30 corruptors are very hard to kill for the gateway units. They can basically go in by themselves or with roach support and kill off all the collosi and void rays (BE SURE TO USE THE CORRUPT ABILITY AS MUCH AS U CAN, YOU NEED IT TO BEAT VOID RAYS).

Zerg

7 roach rush.

[Nick Invaders]

Well, thanks. I'm a silver level player, what do you expect? I gave it my best with the tips.

How do you deal with droning up a little too hard? That's what I tend to do early game (my attempts to not drone up as hard have resulted in not droning up enough >.>). If it's a decently sized push I have trouble fending it off. If they keep reinforcing I often lose unless they make a stupid mistake.

Just curious. What do you think of my +1 attack roach rush vs zerg? Note: This is an all in (imo), though you could probably stop the roach production later on. I have yet to refine it completely. I have never lost ZvZ using this build though.

14gas
14pool
Roach warren right after pool is done (obv get queen)
Get evo chamber as soon as possible after the roach warren
Spend your first 100 gas on the +1 ranged attack
Mass up roaches (preferably 5-7) and attack (keep reinforcing)

I haven't tried any follow ups to that, since if you keep reinforcing they will break. I have yet to meet a player to counter it effectively (of course these were bronze and silver level players though). I destroyed roach rushing players with not too much difficulty. The only problem atm is that it's an all in, and I can't exactly figure out when to stop producing the roaches to tech up, since I usually destroy the other player and never need to tech up.

[SM-Count]

You'll die to ling-bling on small maps or big ramps, I also don't really understand why you get +1 range if you're going to attack before it's done, it's a waste of minerals and gas.

[Azilius]

Well, thanks. I'm a silver level player, what do you expect? I gave it my best with the tips.

How do you deal with droning up a little too hard? That's what I tend to do early game (my attempts to not drone up as hard have resulted in not droning up enough >.>). If it's a decently sized push I have trouble fending it off. If they keep reinforcing I often lose unless they make a stupid mistake.

Just curious. What do you think of my +1 attack roach rush vs zerg? Note: This is an all in (imo), though you could probably stop the roach production later on. I have yet to refine it completely. I have never lost ZvZ using this build though.

14gas
14pool
Roach warren right after pool is done (obv get queen)
Get evo chamber as soon as possible after the roach warren
Spend your first 100 gas on the +1 ranged attack
Mass up roaches (preferably 5-7) and attack (keep reinforcing)

A proper 7RR build should destroy that since it's more economical and leaves you with better tech. The +1 is a good idea but you won't have it in time if you're sending those roaches asap. Plus it must delay your rush pretty hard..

[Nick Invaders]

Once again I haven't fought a player above silver with this build. I haven't lost vs a low level zerg player yet with this build. Gotten close to losing once or twice though.

Here I'll find a game I played...
Edit3: Okay just played one. It was extremely easy due to the fact it was a bronze level player I was playing, but eh whatever. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/r ... &id=201204

Edit4: You can't really gauge the strength of the build, as the player I just played did worse than most zerg players I play, but you cans see the timings. I made a couple bumps here and there, though I think I executed it fairly well.

[Azilius]

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7 ... and_/_Lair

These builds are calculated and refined whereas yours has much room for improvement in timings..that's really all there is to it.

[Nick Invaders]

Yeah. I'm gonna implement other builds eventually. Doing the same thing all the time is kinda boring.

I think my build has room for improvement, both for improving the timings as well as any follow-ups whenever I finally encounter a someone who can hold it off.

[SM-Count]

btw, they made the sc1 campaigns on the sc2 engine with harder difficulty to compensate for easier control. It's pretty fun especially for those who want to catch up on the story without having to deal with the UI problems of sc1.

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-epis ... ebel-yell/

[poehalcho]

btw, they made the sc1 campaigns on the sc2 engine with harder difficulty to compensate for easier control. It's pretty fun especially for those who want to catch up on the story without having to deal with the UI problems of sc1.

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-epis ... ebel-yell/

oh great, why am I even playing sc1 then Q_Q
I feel like I'm wasting my time now and I have only 4 more missions to go

I'm getting very happy though
So far I've actually managed to win 2x against the computer on custom map mode O_O
in the countless matches I tried in the years before I recall only ever winning once, and now I won 2/3 matches I've tried playing so far.

[SM-Count]

It is still pretty buggy (nothing game breaking but just minor annoyances, like marine range upgrade gives me combat shields instead), plus they changed a few things that people are too happy about (like adding medics) and there's no protoss campaign, but overall it's a much better experience imo since the original campaign involved turtling for 20 minutes then a-moving your 200/200 army through the other guy's base.

[poehalcho]

so far I've been carrier/battlecruiser/(12/12 muta guard) charging
I hate how much the muta's suck at countering other air D:
12 mutas get pwnt by just 2 vikings >_<. curse you aoe damage!

at some points I get sick of base raiding and I just go 'power overwhelming' to finish it off quickly -__-
afterwards I hit myself on the head for giving in to the dark side D:

actually I don't think I've ever even capped my unit count in sc... except that first game I won many years ago. I remember I made a few carriers and had them take out the guarding forces of the opponent, after my carriers died I sent an arbiter to recall my units into the fray. I just barely won >_<

[poehalcho]

oh god haha. This one is so mean XD

note: title is fake (it's an anti-spoiler vid)
also, I'm buying the game tomorrow : D

[gamef]

Dreamhack invitational had some amazing games yesterday. MC vs Idra G1 was amazing, also the finals.. too bad WhiteRa lost after going up 2-0 to MC.

[DinoNuggets]

how do you guys rank up in games?
ive been at it for a while and nothing. ive won like 12-13 games in a row and nothing i hate being stuck in bronze cause last season i ended up in gold and this season is shit for me, i wanna go up in 4v4, 3v3, and 1v1 halp!?