Legitimate: Iris Reporting

[ltsune]

Little off topic but....legits who buy silk, you do know Joymax has a P2U bot(which will remain nameless)they created and operate....so every time you buy silk you support updates and management on THEIR bot. Just sayin lol.

Little more on topic...I remember at the 70 cap all the "supposed" legits in Avalon like Nightbloom and Fly etc. who accused so many of botting here on srf, were later proven to be closet BOTTERS themselves!!!(the worst kind) ahh good times...they even got me banned long ago

Kinda On topic...GL with your legitness!! Even the creaters of the game are against you. But there's always worse companies than Joymax!!!!!...like Ncsoft

Yeah, right, lol. There is no way you can ever in your entire life prove that.

[Zing]

I'm still confused but maybe it is on-topic to point out that the legit movement on Iris was started by a bunch of "defectors" from Venus.

Feel free to ask questions.

[BuDo]

There wouldn't be a problem if we could move our chars to and from servers.....If that was allowed I think we'd really have a true legitimate movement. Being forced to start over coupled with shitty game managment are the things that threatens all "legit movements"...

[Zing]

BuDo, I had dreams about that.

It'd be smart of Joymax to add the option to transfer characters for a fee. Look to FFOnline for an example. But I'd imagine the 'character trafficking' in the Silkroad Online environment booms. And other issues like huge inflation in the economy if players were able to transfer gear/gold.

[non ego man]

Feel free to ask questions.

Well, I'll answer one first (for your food for thought)...

Why Azteca? I started playing SRO again because of WeGame/JoyMax or whoever implemented the statues and client-per-IP restriction. This was the first substantial anti-bot measure they implemented and it meant there were actually spots on the server. And there still are! I wanted to play on a US server to reduce some of the connection issues I've had in the past. I started on Azteca before Avalon got there so that wasn't an issue.

So back to my point: a huge part of the Iris legit movement was Venus players defecting because of the drama or because certain people wanted to be big fish. Is it hypocritical to complain about server hopping from Iris to Azteca when so many Iris players hopped from Venus?

I believe your original post was an attempt to dissuade people from server hopping, right?

[Zing]

History of Iris is unknown to my knowledge so I fall short to comment.

The point of the post is to report the aftermath of server hopping and the effects from one. What makes Azteca different is the presence of Avalon. What if Avalon presence did not exist, and I'd doubt it would had been as great as it is, what would had happen? The community may have been as small or smaller than what Iris had at the current time. Creating many more small communities isn't something I see as an accomplishment.

On hypocrisy. You got my intentions wrong if what you got from the post was a blame game. The scenarios I had written were to give details and reasons why players, like ourselves, need to stick to one server. I've talked about this before I had ever played on Iris. A server needs to be decided where all motivated players could attend to for the sake of playing the game. If what you got was "Azteca players are bad guys," then that is wrong. It was a comparison, a model to look at so people can see in perspective.

On the contrary, some reasons I had read from previous replies and thoughts of my own were that new servers don't have fully-decked-out playerbots. And that the chance to control the server is possible. This idea is up in the air for debate because as for what exactly the Azteca community goals are is unknown to me. If the goal is to take the fort and control the server, then I would say a new server would be a better choice than oppose to a server like Xian. If were to only play the game without the goal to take control, then I doubt that a server of choice would be as important.

Extension of last paragraph: Although without the presence of Avalon the ability to control the server would be impossible. So my question is: Why do people join servers to start legitimate movements when there is already one? (And I don't mean precisely Iris and Azteca)

[chickenfeather]

@ Budo

It wasn't an issue of being bored from grinding at lvl 90+ on Iris since no one was 90+ yet. Zing was from a more recent wave on Iris, not the initial wave from Venus.

There were lots of parties at all levels from 0-60ish. School began. About half the people disappeared. Maya comes out, more people disappear.

Many people left because even though there are parties and lots of activity, Avalon isn't here and therefore it will fail. Vicious self-defeatist logic cycle here. Legit movements can only survive if the people stay and the people don't stay because they don't think it will survive without Avalon. This is a main reason why no legit movements after Venus survived.

The biggest failure was the leaders of the guilds went to play other games or on other servers. By the time Azteca came out, there were only about 15 active people and not all of them were on at the same time.

@Zing

Control of the fortress means everything. It's an indicator of a successful legit movement. The struggle against bots, whether Avalon admits it or not, is always there.

[non ego man]

I didn't think your point was "azteca players are bad." Just "people shouldn't leave Iris for Azteca." That's what it sounded like to me. And that's fine. As a legit Iris player who has some loyalty to what's been established on the server, that's precisely how you should feel.

Why start a legit movement when there already is one? Part of the problem with the old servers is that they're tainted. Bots have had years to level, get gear, get gold, farm for SP, etc. etc. With a new server that has some of the new anti-bot measures in place, that doesn't exist. Because they started without the restrictions, the bots on Iris have a huge lead over the bots on Azteca (or any new server since the statues and IP restrictions). And I don't mean just the time: they benefited from JoyMax's pro-bot policies.

Just to be clear, the game changer for Venus was Euro's. You couldn't bot a Euro party and a Euro party levels like a freak. That's why Venus worked. The game changer for Azteca is the anti-bot measures. That may be why Azteca will work.

It wasn't the "legit movement" that brought me Azteca. It was the opportunity to FCKING LOG ON FOR FCKS SAKE (don't get me started) and to be on a US server. I had 2 options at the time and Azteca was the newest so that's what worked.

So I realize I'm probably not the person to whom your post is directed. I'll shut up. But maybe some of what I say is relevant.

[iscared]

You clearly sound mad Op

[Zing]

I didn't think your point was "azteca players are bad ... "

Non ego man, I can't stress enough. There isn't 'loyalties' there isn't 'don't join Azteca.' I have no idea how you're getting this vibe, but it's completely, and I mean completely, wrong. You'd be surprise where I'm currently playing.

I did not know about the restriction only for new servers. I have no idea on about it and don't have anything to comment. But is noted and if it's true then it is a more of a better reason why.

For logging on, I never had any problems with any of the servers for months.

And, iscared. Get back into Vent

[ltsune]

I didn't think your point was "azteca players are bad ... "

Non ego man, I can't stress enough. There isn't 'loyalties' there isn't 'don't join Azteca.' I have no idea how you're getting this vibe, but it's completely, and I mean completely, wrong. You'd be surprise where I'm currently playing.

I did not know about the restriction only for new servers. I have no idea on about it and don't have anything to comment. But is noted and if it's true then it is a more of a better reason why.

For logging on, I never had any problems with any of the servers for months.

And, iscared. Get back into Vent

Just to clear this out. The restrictions are for all servers. Alright, short message, just wanted to clear it out

[_Equal_]

I'm still confused but maybe it is on-topic to point out that the legit movement on Iris was started by a bunch of "defectors" from Venus.

Mmmm, I was playing on Iris, promoting it, pushing for guild with legits and trying to recruit a couple of months before some of the Venus folks showed up and created another guild or two to party with.

You might have missed the part where two of the "legit" heads of guilds were found to be botting and kicked out of union. I won't name names, they're still playing on Iris. After that we made another try at it with two more guilds, but the main problem is lack of a defined "head" of union who was on a lot to help, and lax enforcement of anti-botting rules. Plus powerlvl outside union was allowed, and while I didn't mind that at first, people abused it instead of partying with union/guild. Iris was, and is, a legit "just for fun" environment, not hardcore.

Despite all that, when people started switching to Azteca I supported the movement there. We just did not have nearly as large of a core group of dedicated and build-smart players. Azteca does.

For that matter, whether or not the bots had a head start on Iris, why does that make it impossible? It just makes it more of a challenge. A challenge we lost ground on, due to some of chickenfeather's points - school, new server, etc

Long and short of it, what I am taking away from Zing's comments - was talking about this thread with him last night - is that legits should STAY on this new server. Keep new blood coming in, make it the place that Venus was, and keep it that way. Don't server hop every time a new legit movement comes up.

- and yes, I am guilty of it, but I want to see ONE server succeed. I was not here for the Venus heyday

[Zing]

Equal, just to add a bit to your post. I believe you were talking to a doppelganger. I wasn't in vent for sometime !:{

And, thanks for the clear up, ltsune.

[_Equal_]

Equal, just to add a bit to your post. I believe you were talking to a doppelganger. I wasn't in vent for sometime !:{

And, thanks for the clear up, ltsune.

I thought you were in-game though - meh, we might have been talking *about* the thread in guild or party chat. Wrong guy then.

[majincooler]

BuDo, I had dreams about that.

It'd be smart of Joymax to add the option to transfer characters for a fee. Look to FFOnline for an example. But I'd imagine the 'character trafficking' in the Silkroad Online environment booms. And other issues like huge inflation in the economy if players were able to transfer gear/gold.

[Zing]

BuDo, I had dreams about that.

It'd be smart of Joymax to add the option to transfer characters for a fee. Look to FFOnline for an example. But I'd imagine the 'character trafficking' in the Silkroad Online environment booms. And other issues like huge inflation in the economy if players were able to transfer gear/gold.

I heard you like creative writing. So we put creative writing in your creative writing so you can read creative writing as you read creative writing.

[Ch4otik]

i didn't read the third page. but here's what i gather from the first two.
Zing is dissing nobody. he's saying what you're saying. if you're on Azteca. stay there. if you're going to move to Azteca. stay there. that way, the power of the legit movement remains dominant and dedicated on that server.

on another note. i was part of the Iris people. what i liked most was organized and efficient party play. as soon as that began to be disorganized and parties became extra difficult to find (due to the fact that the good ones were done by the Iris guilds and i couldn't find any elsewhere while at the same time the activity of Iris players dwindled and players who attained higher levels because they started earlier were not able to successfully TEACH the newer ones how to play well so they could carry on the "tradition" of excellent partying.), i stopped playing on Iris.

i understand that there was more to the story of the dissolving of the Iris guilds but I didn't care as long as party play was consistent or enough people were logged in to chat with while soloing.

that being said. i'd like to venture into Azteca. but. will i find party play even at the lowest levels? or higher leveled players willing to give newbies the initial boost? and after that boost, will there be enough players willing to continue to party play in an organized and effective manner regardless of whether the higher leveled and more experienced ones were present or not. and are these now-no-longer-newbies willing to pass on their experience and help future newbies attain a similar or superior level of organized and efficient party play?

and as i said. even if i were soloing. will there be enough people in guild/union to just enjoy grinding time with through chatting?

sorry for the long post. this often happens when it requires more words to explain myself clearly.

and btw. the thought of TEACHING the newer players how to play well together is a suggestion to get rid of the fear that if the leading players leave, the movement will fail, causing many other players to leave. there should be nothing to stop the lead players from assigning new leaders if they ever decide to leave as there should be nothing to stop the other players from accepting the new leadership if they have seen them in action and realize that they can carry on the leadership as well as, if not better than, the original ones.

last thing. I HAVE NOT tried Iris since the attempted revival. so all comment on Iris refers to the INITIAL movement

[chickenfeather]

@Ch4otik

Excellent point. There was definitely an issue with teaching the new players. Some of them would not be taught while others would not party with players a few levels below them. The ones that I did teach successfully always had some issue with drugs, parents, or their computer would die on them. Either way, the higher levels were simply not on enough to provide the support.

You have the same issues on azteca, most of the higher levels tend to keep to themselves, but there are a lot more active low levels. I'd recommend that you join Azteca asap because the group we pulled from iris is still relatively low(20-30s). DON'T HESITATE!

[_Equal_]

@Ch4otik

Excellent point. There was definitely an issue with teaching the new players. Some of them would not be taught while others would not party with players a few levels below them. The ones that I did teach successfully always had some issue with drugs, parents, or their computer would die on them. Either way, the higher levels were simply not on enough to provide the support.

You have the same issues on azteca, most of the higher levels tend to keep to themselves, but there are a lot more active low levels. I'd recommend that you join Azteca asap because the group we pulled from iris is still relatively low(20-30s). DON'T HESITATE!

The other reason is that we didn't have enough higher levels to keep supporting the lower levels, and "parties over powerlevel" was our mantra - and rightly so.

We had, what - maybe 8 people in the 70-80's range and about 6-10 in the 50-60's range?

Heh - how many times did I forgo my high level char to party with people in union on my alts of various levels? Again, only a core of about 4 or 5 people would. I mean, too much powerlevel means your high-level char doesn't go very far, with the lack of parties.

Azteca has so many people that for the most part, we shouldn't be wanting for parties.

[iscared]

Strongly agree with Chickenfeather.

Higher levels seem to not care about helping the newbies learn how to play or provide some leveling so they can soon party with the "high" levels.

[ZaKnighT]

@Ch4otik

Excellent point. There was definitely an issue with teaching the new players. Some of them would not be taught while others would not party with players a few levels below them. The ones that I did teach successfully always had some issue with drugs, parents, or their computer would die on them. Either way, the higher levels were simply not on enough to provide the support.

You have the same issues on azteca, most of the higher levels tend to keep to themselves, but there are a lot more active low levels. I'd recommend that you join Azteca asap because the group we pulled from iris is still relatively low(20-30s). DON'T HESITATE!

i guess i was one of the ppl who wouldnt learn right ?!?! hahahaha 1 comment Farking joymax !! XD

[S3by]

I did not quit Iris , still same lvl as i was in first legit guild Reborn , found another legit union , legits are still here .

[chickenfeather]

i guess i was one of the ppl who wouldnt learn right ?!?! hahahaha 1 comment Farking joymax !! XD

No! you were one of those people that were like, "hey guys, i'll be gone for 6 months because of school".

[Ch4otik]

Higher levels seem to not care about helping the newbies learn how to play or provide some leveling so they can soon party with the "high" levels.

and THIS was going to be my other point. if the goal of the starters of this legit movement is to have fun with other players being legit and partying together and eventually ruling the server, then they wouldn't care if they were receiving no benefit from partying with lower level players as long as those lower ones are learning to be independent. or simply getting a little nudge.

if, on the other hand, the legit movement is only an affront to take advantage of the party system in order to move on the higher levels as fast as possible, then it is easy to become frustrated and tired of helping newbies as soon as you're not making progress on your own character. it would mean your real quest is to reach the top asap like those who bot, making the "legit" movement pointless in my honest opinion.

i would love it if the first were the case

on a side note. if it is, in fact, the first. then i propose a method where whenever higher level players party with lower ones, it won't become a free powerleveling service. the solution is this. the only role of the higher level players should be to resurrect the lower ones and occasionally interfere when a party giant they can't handle alone appears. they should simply chill and tell/show them what to do so they can learn. and like i said. res when they die.

[PureStr]

Higher levels seem to not care about helping the newbies learn how to play or provide some leveling so they can soon party with the "high" levels.

When I was capped on venus, i'd get tons of demands for plvls and help. The thing is more than 90% of the people who join will not get past level 32 or so. So lets say you help a noob get from lvl 1 to 20+ and next thing you know he's gone and wont login again. So it's kinda of useless to help random noobs. But when it was people I knew that wouldnt leave the server i'd help them with gold. I don't know how many people joined the server, pmed me and I gave them a few millions to have a heads up.

if, on the other hand, the legit movement is only an affront to take advantage of the party system in order to move on the higher levels as fast as possible, then it is easy to become frustrated and tired of helping newbies as soon as you're not making progress on your own character. it would mean your real quest is to reach the top asap like those who bot, making the "legit" movement pointless in my honest opinion.

being legit =/= volunteering
Of course people want to make progress on their characters...

[Ch4otik]

i understand what you mean PureStr. which is why i said this:

...i propose a method where whenever higher level players party with lower ones, it won't become a free powerleveling service. the solution is this. the only role of the higher level players should be to resurrect the lower ones and occasionally interfere when a party giant they can't handle alone appears. they should simply chill and tell/show them what to do so they can learn. and like i said. res when they die.

after some time, the lower levels should get the hang of it and be able to improve on their own. if not. then screw them. lol.
this way. higher levels can keep partying with higher levels and just pop in once in a while to TEACH the lower ones with mobs they can handle.

in other words. NEVER focus your efforts on one, two, or three individuals. only groups of parties.

[Ownage]

i understand what you mean PureStr. which is why i said this:

...i propose a method where whenever higher level players party with lower ones, it won't become a free powerleveling service. the solution is this. the only role of the higher level players should be to resurrect the lower ones and occasionally interfere when a party giant they can't handle alone appears. they should simply chill and tell/show them what to do so they can learn. and like i said. res when they die.

after some time, the lower levels should get the hang of it and be able to improve on their own. if not. then screw them. lol.
this way. higher levels can keep partying with higher levels and just pop in once in a while to TEACH the lower ones with mobs they can handle.

in other words. NEVER focus your efforts on one, two, or three individuals. only groups of parties.

No legit party would want that, the extra person is a waste of space if all they do is ress. I think they should just powerparty (or however you want to say it) instead of plvl. Thats basically a higher lvl plays the role of a lower lvl in a party i.e. a 9d wizz helps a group out at lvl 50 mobs, the wizzard plays his role like he normally would, and there are warriors and everything to lure. This is the best possible way to get xp, faster then plvl, everyone helps out, and you lvl quick.

[Balderdash]

This thread is nice.

There is no "legit movement". Avalon used Saturn as a testing ground for leveling speed, moved to Venus to prove that legit playing parties can outlevel the botters and win. It got turned into a legit haven for the real hardcore legits (turns out there just arent that many old school hardcore legits now). Avalon never meant to start some legit movement trend, just prove that a group of organized, driven, knowledgeable gamers can do what botters say we can't. Beat them... We do beat them, all the time. We PVP better, we are more active, we study silly things like what skills work best together and in what order, where is the more efficient places to put your fingers on the skills and how to use your skills to kill, shame and frustrate high level retards who havent touched keys for anything beyond cybersexting the 40 year old guy in their legion they think is a girl in real life.

No one meant to pull players away from Iris, we just meant to play SRO again after spending more than a year on Aion. SRO has a strange pull for us all and we still love the game and love the people who play it legit. We do not advertise "JOIN AZTECA LEGIT MOVEMENT HHHHHHHH!!!11!" We didnt announce that we were even there till we were already 40. Im sorry that Iris is having trouble but do not blame Avalon, Azteca or the people who came there.

As for the rules, they are not the same as Venus, true. Not because Venus failed though. The fact that people even TRY legit movements is because Venus was a success in every sense of the word. There was drama, but that is what happens when people are actually there, talking to eachother and causing friction. Even people that were head to head in Venus are partying together in Azteca because the atmosphere is pretty relaxed in the union. There is no danger of the heads of THIS legit union going bot either. ^^

[Ch4otik]

I think they should just powerparty (or however you want to say it) instead of plvl. Thats basically a higher lvl plays the role of a lower lvl in a party i.e. a 9d wizz helps a group out at lvl 50 mobs, the wizzard plays his role like he normally would, and there are warriors and everything to lure. This is the best possible way to get xp, faster then plvl, everyone helps out, and you lvl quick.

now, assuming the wizz and the lower levels (and really i believe they should've known how to party by the 50's. whenever i say lower i mean anywhere from 1x to 3x) were in the same guild/union. what happens when the wizz disappears and the rest of the players start failing because the wiz is no longer doing major damage and helping to kill mobs faster? won't they become discouraged because they're no longer gaining exp as fast as they are used to with the wizard? and therefore, won't they constantly bother the 9d wiz by constantly pestering him/her to come help them in a party?

sorry, sir. i'm just basing this on the seemingly natural course of events that i have observed in game with any guild/union.

there is more to this problem than is currently expounded upon with the main focus being the players themselves. but whatever. just throwing my 2 cents in.

[_Equal_]

I think they should just powerparty (or however you want to say it) instead of plvl. Thats basically a higher lvl plays the role of a lower lvl in a party i.e. a 9d wizz helps a group out at lvl 50 mobs, the wizzard plays his role like he normally would, and there are warriors and everything to lure. This is the best possible way to get xp, faster then plvl, everyone helps out, and you lvl quick.

now, assuming the wizz and the lower levels (and really i believe they should've known how to party by the 50's. whenever i say lower i mean anywhere from 1x to 3x) were in the same guild/union. what happens when the wizz disappears and the rest of the players start failing because the wiz is no longer doing major damage and helping to kill mobs faster? won't they become discouraged because they're no longer gaining exp as fast as they are used to with the wizard? and therefore, won't they constantly bother the 9d wiz by constantly pestering him/her to come help them in a party?

sorry, sir. i'm just basing this on the seemingly natural course of events that i have observed in game with any guild/union.

there is more to this problem than is currently expounded upon with the main focus being the players themselves. but whatever. just throwing my 2 cents in.

This is just my opinion - but a true powerparty does NOT mean someone who helps nubs by logging on to his 110 wiz to participate in a level 38 pt @ sungs when the other party members are 28-33. He doesn't get anything, takes all the aggro, gets all the kills - or a lot of them - and no, they don't know how to play in a cooperative party because they really aren't doing much, maybe a few points of dmg, and never have to worry too much about controlling AOE or aggro.

In my mind a powerparty works best when the higher level can still get SOMETHING out of it. He's not killing too fast, there is still a minor risk of dying, but he can still save the party.

For example: a lvl 35 wiz at lvl 28 mobs with assorted 20-28 members. That works well, and it's what I did last night with my then-35 wiz helping out the lower level players. They still need to know how to play, and it's good practice.