stem cells restore blindness

[SM-Count]

A lot of people dislike the use of stem-cells in medical practice.

It's no wonder people dislike it.. When stem cells come from embryos.

Just curious, in the abysmally ignorant world you appear to live in, how exactly do they harness stem cells?

[woutR]

to be perfectly honest I (also) thought they got stem cells from the 'baby chord' during birth or just from embryo's.
I'm gonna wikipedia that shit now though. I wouldn't know where else they get it from

[SM-Count]

To really understand the debate isn't to weigh the pros of curing 'x' disease and create 'y' immunity vs. the tragedies of dropping an anvil on an expecting mother as soon as she steps through the door and extracting precious embryonic stem cells aborting a fetus then billing the gov't for the anvil + floor repairs. Gotta understand what 'stem cells' are, why it's so Farking hard to find them, and how we get stem cells now.

[TOloseGT]

my mom does stem cell research, so i know all about stem cells =]

[chickenfeather]

Explain to me how a blastocyst is a 'human'

Nah I can't.. lulz
But here's a picture of "human blastocyst"

Each of those cells you see there have carbohydrate markers on their cell membrane that identify them as unique from the parent. This means that if the mother's white blood cells see it, they will attack it as a foreign entity.

Say what you will to justify it and to make yourself feel better, but you're still killing something that could potentially be human. I'm not one of those "omg baby killers!" people. I don't care. I'd clone entire humans just to kill them for their organs if it didn't result in my lab being shut down.

[SM-Count]

Explain to me how a blastocyst is a 'human'

Nah I can't.. lulz
But here's a picture of "human blastocyst"

Each of those cells you see there have carbohydrate markers on their cell membrane that identify them as unique from the parent. This means that if the mother's white blood cells see it, they will attack it as a foreign entity.

Say what you will to justify it and to make yourself feel better, but you're still killing something that could potentially be human. I'm not one of those "omg baby killers!" people. I don't care. I'd clone entire humans just to kill them for their organs if it didn't result in my lab being shut down.

Welcome to 2010, please allow me to guide you around. First, Obama, he's president now, not Bush. Second, Italy won the 2006 World Cup, but the 2010 World Cup is still going. Third, main stream hip hop now consists of Drake, Bieber, and Ke$ha. Oh, and even though we can create replicas of embryonic stem cells in a lab from adult stem cells, it turns out scientists enjoy killing babies and having picket line outside of their labs too much to let it go. Kinda dumb, but what can you do? The thrill of killing babies becomes addictive. After you start, withdraw hits you like a truck and you can't control your subconscious desire to experience the high again. Sometimes you just wake up at 3:00 A.M. with your lab coat on, covered in blood, bodies of unconscious pregnant women everywhere you look, and as you glance down you see vials of the stem cells you could not stop yourself from gathering gone to waste because you did not even bother putting in storage. Of course you'll pull out your music box with a dancing blastocyte and remind yourself it's not human to try and go back to sleep happy.

[chickenfeather]

@ SM-Count
Actually... most people don't really get a "thrill" from killing. It's not even addictive or enjoyable. You telling me that I enjoy breaking all these lab mice's necks all day?

Also... you can't make "embryonic" stem cells from adult cells. They are just adult stem cells. Yes, they are just as good. I am repeating myself, but again : Adult stem cells are hard to get; they require processing which takes time and time=money. Embryonic stem cells are much easier to get. Good try tho. Welcome to 2010.

[SM-Count]

I specified babies, you've obviously have never tried it. So ignorant of high intellectual entertainment, /pat

[chickenfeather]

I specified babies, you've obviously have never tried it. So ignorant of high intellectual entertainment, /pat

Since you have specified babies, you should know that their cells are different from the mother's...

[SM-Count]

Hm.... probably getting trolled here but I guess I'll entertain you since someone who isn't pretending to have double digit IQ could benefit from this.

Since you have specified babies, you should know that their cells are different from the mother's...

Yes, they are just as good.

Copy paste answers, so ez.

I am repeating myself

Don't know if anyone's told you this, but repeating retarded and wrong shit just makes you sound more retarded and wrong, but, again, I'll assume it's because you're misinformed rather than just plain stupid. (former luckily can be fixed)

but again : Adult stem cells are hard to get;

What this has to do with an embryonic stem cell/iPSCs I don't really know, but thanks for reminding me, I guess?

they require processing which takes time and time=money

Ok, you see, the reason I link shit is in hopes that people will actually read the linked shit, not just the title and 2 sentences, and then scroll through pretty pictures. If you'd bother reading the link up there to wikipedia you'd know that the process isn't adult stem cell -> ??? -> iPSCs. Embryonic stem cells have "processing" as well, and it's not shorter, nor is it "easier processing" but I'll talk about that later. If you were to debate against my point it'd be safety, not time (though I'll give you credit for getting time=money correct, not relevant, but correct), since right now they generate this mostly through cancerous cells in adults and cute, white baby rabbits*.

Embryonic stem cells are much easier to get.

What does "get" mean? If you mean get from a cell than an adult stem cell from an entire adult human, then yes, you're right. (unfortunately not relevant, but I'll let you savor being right) If you mean "get" as in get to a useable stage after removing the innards of a blastocyte then it's not easy at all. You still have to identify the stem cells (hard, very hard), then you gotta grow them (pretty mediocre difficulty, not easy only because stupid shit happens and everything gets contaminated w/e) so, no, it's really not easier to get.

*no not really, someone's bound to ask >.>

[Skyve]

I actually understand what you guys are talking about, Biology 10 ftw

[chickenfeather]

Hm.... probably getting trolled here but I guess I'll entertain you since someone who isn't pretending to have double digit IQ could benefit from this.

No one is pretending to have a double digit IQ here except you. Not that it matters here. And yes, I'm trolling you. umad? lol.

Since you have specified babies, you should know that their cells are different from the mother's...

Yes, they are just as good.

Copy paste answers, so ez.

Good to know you agree.

I am repeating myself

Don't know if anyone's told you this, but repeating retarded and wrong shit just makes you sound more retarded and wrong, but, again, I'll assume it's because you're misinformed rather than just plain stupid. (former luckily can be fixed)

but again : Adult stem cells are hard to get;

What this has to do with an embryonic stem cell/iPSCs I don't really know, but thanks for reminding me, I guess?

We weren't discussing only embryonic stem cells/iPSCs, we were discussing stem cells in general.

they require processing which takes time and time=money

Ok, you see, the reason I link shit is in hopes that people will actually read the linked shit, not just the title and 2 sentences, and then scroll through pretty pictures. If you'd bother reading the link up there to wikipedia you'd know that the process isn't adult stem cell -> ??? -> iPSCs.

You're misreading me... I never said that.

Embryonic stem cells have "processing" as well, and it's not shorter, nor is it "easier processing" but I'll talk about that later. If you were to debate against my point it'd be safety, not time (though I'll give you credit for getting time=money correct, not relevant, but correct), since right now they generate this mostly through cancerous cells in adults and cute, white baby rabbits*.

I agree. They both require processing.
However, which would you say is easier? :
1. sifting through thousands of specialized cells looking for adult stem cells and then processing them for use
2. inducing already specialized cells to de-differentiate and then processing them for use
3. fertilizing an egg in a test tube and using the cells and then processing them for use

The stem cell lines we have are unfit for human use because they are cancerous, but they're very useful for research purposes because cancerous cells multiply non-stop so you can get a large number of them.

Embryonic stem cells are much easier to get.

What does "get" mean? If you mean get from a cell than an adult stem cell from an entire adult human, then yes, you're right. (unfortunately not relevant, but I'll let you savor being right) If you mean "get" as in get to a useable stage after removing the innards of a blastocyte then it's not easy at all. You still have to identify the stem cells (hard, very hard), then you gotta grow them (pretty mediocre difficulty, not easy only because stupid shit happens and everything gets contaminated w/e) so, no, it's really not easier to get.

Yes, I meant getting adult stem cells from an entire human. This is why that pathway is not really viable and why iPSCs were such a breakthrough. All cells require a certain amount of processing after they are found, agreed.

[Reise]

There are books written on the debate, and it's closely linked to abortion because of the question of human status.

Arguing about it here is senseless. No one will be convinced unless they do their own reading.

[SM-Count]

Arguing about the ethical issues would be senseless and a pretty good waste of time, however correcting a wrong fundamental assumption about how the science works isn't that bad.

1. sifting through thousands of specialized cells looking for adult stem cells and then processing them for use

Adult stem cells aren't part of this debate. Adult stem cells are not used in the same research Embryonic cells, have never been under scrutiny in terms of fetuses with the exception of cloning (not the subject at hand), nor is it used to create iPSCs, so, again, I don't see how this is relevant.

2. inducing already specialized cells to de-differentiate and then processing them for use

3. fertilizing an egg in a test tube and using the cells and then processing them for use

The problem with the above is that there both extremely simplified versions of how it's actually done. One verb, "induce", doesn't begin to describe what's needed for it to work. Number three has the same problem, you don't just fertilize an egg then pick out a nice bunch of stem cells, you still have to identify the stem cells from the other crap you get out of the cell. Of course, "identify" hardly does justice to what needs to be done.

However, it definitely isn't "much easier" and I definitely can't make a logical decision simply because it sounds easier reading off simplified versions of the science (nor should you be able to). More importantly, in the most practical manner, it definitely isn't more expensive and no way in hell is it "much" more expensive. There are much more expensive alternatives, they failed ofc.

[chickenfeather]

@ SM-Count
Easy is a relative term. My "easy" was relative to alternative 1, which you have deemed irrelevant as they have never been used in the same research. There is a reason why they haven't been used, it's because they are too difficult to find. Relative to your lab work, yes these procedures are very time intensive and subject to contamination so they are difficult. I apologize for making you feel like I was belittling your profession. We are arguing about two different things here, it's all a matter of perspective.

Secondly, the process is simplified, that is true, but the general idea is there. You can add in how long you incubate your cells, what growth medium you put them in, what kind of cell matrix you grow them in, etc. but what's the point? All these procedures are expensive, a small bioreactor half the size of your palm costs a few thousand dollars, irrelevant.

And there is no logical decision to be made here. It's all about what works and what's cheapest in the long run.

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

There are books written on the debate, and it's closely linked to abortion because of the question of human status.

Arguing about it here is senseless. No one will be convinced unless they do their own reading.

i'll stick to this