Gaza, Israel, wth?

Tasdik · Post by **Tasdik** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:35 pm

First off, I'm a bit surprised no one's made a thread about this, anyways...

I just turned on the news a little bit ago and saw this video clip of some IDF *Israel's army* soldiers boarding this boat, supposedly with paint ball guns *although I believe they switched to pistols when they saw what was happening*, and as they hit the deck they were immediately attacked by a mod of people with clubs, knifes, and everything in between.

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Secondly, wth was this ship thinking? The Israelis had offered to allow the ship to dock on one of their ports so they can inspect the items being transferred into Gaza and then allow the supplies to make it there on land. Given the fact that Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization, this is only logical. Yet the world seems intent on portraying Israel as aggressors when they are simply trying to protect their families and their country, which they legally and historically have a right to. Yet the ship proceeded anyway.

Epic fail IMO.

Thoughts?

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:42 pm

I think its one of the world's top 10 incredible ironies that jews got raped by hitler back in '45 but now israel is doing the same kind of thing themselves. Obviously there aren't any concentration camps or mass executions but hey, killing innocent people, shooting phosphorus nades, and treating palestinians like dirt in general..seems no different to me.

CeLL · Post by **CeLL** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:44 pm

my thoughts, this thread will go the total opposite direction it should. i think john stewart commented on this and how glenn beck was saying that no one was running this footage, two days after all the major networks ran it. but it may be something else.

either way, its quite clear the soldiers had no malicious intent, but im sure it will some how get twisted.

chickenfeather · Post by **chickenfeather** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:02 pm

Jstar1 wrote:I think its one of the world's top 10 incredible ironies that jews got raped by hitler back in '45 but now israel is doing the same kind of thing themselves. Obviously there aren't any concentration camps or mass executions but hey, killing innocent people, shooting phosphorus nades, and treating palestinians like dirt in general..seems no different to me.

Implying that the people on the boat and palestinians are innocent.

I'll bet you're one of those people that believe that when people try to kill you with sticks and stones, you should only use sticks and stones to fight back or it won't be fair(disproportionate force). Q_Q moar.

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:08 pm

I'm referring to "killing people" in general. Israel lives an irony, they really do. And israelis and their friends, palestinians and their friends can rage all they want at each other over the video, I don't care. Both sides are equally pathetic when you think about how they've been killing each other since even before jesus christ was born. Is that 3000 years? 4000 years? Should be in the guinness world record book.

Leuneth · Post by **Leuneth** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:23 pm

I'll bet you're one of those people that believe that when people try to kill you with sticks and stones, you should only use sticks and stones to fight back or it won't be fair(disproportionate force). Q_Q moar.

how said the people in the boat attacked them with sticks and stoens !
and the boat was in the international water not the israel water

heroo · Post by **heroo** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:24 pm

Israël is digging it's own grave.

Mark my words.

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:28 pm

I agree with ofy, no one knows what happened on that ship except the people who were actually there. We can rage over the footage all we want though. And the people on the aid ship did not decide to prepare knives and metal bars when they set sail for gaza. They didn't expect armed swat teams to jump aboard in the middle of their trip. They obviously scrabbled together the melee defense in anticipation of them when they saw the israeli military boat, not something planned beforehand.

If the activists really wanted to hurt or kill israelis..well hamas would be glad to accept them. Or they would have stored guns or bombs on their ship. This is an aid ship ffs.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:30 pm

Tasdik wrote:Thoughts?

1. "their country, which they legally and historically have a right to" is most debatable.

2. Censored.

3. The whole area is total fail and should be shipped to the moon of Eris.

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:04 pm

I'm too biased against the IDF to feel any sympathy for them. Same with their enemies.

Nothing honorable about either side, I'm just waiting for the day when it's all finally over with.

woutR · Post by **woutR** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:16 pm

I think that the last Israel vs Palestine discussion was enough for me.

*BlackFox · Post by *BlackFox » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:23 pm

Reise wrote:Nothing honorable about either side

+1

ApocalypticDeath · Post by **ApocalypticDeath** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:38 pm

Israel as aggressors when they are simply trying to protect their families and their country, which they legally and historically have a right to

^ please tell me that is a freaking joke...? And as most of the people in here have said nothing about the policies adopted by both countries is honorable.. governments on both sides are committing crimes against innocents who just get engulfed into this ugliness. Hamas sucks but as far as IDF goes they are the biggest organized terrorist organization.

TheDrop · Post by **TheDrop** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:58 pm

ofy1993 wrote:Why were the soldiers even ON THE SHIP? The ship is 50 miles of off the coast so it's still in international waters and Isreal had no right to even be there.

this is what i was wondering lol. surely the soldiers didn't board the ship to play a lil paint ball? Plus why was there a dumbass taking a video of a soldier getting stabbed but didn't do anything to help lol?

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:58 pm

1. It was in international waters so Israel had no right to board that ship
2. They helicoptered in commandos, onto a boat filled with civilians.
3. The boat was carrying much need aid such as medical supplies, construction material, andwater purification tablets to the people of Gaza which have been devastated by Israel's attacks.
4. The boat was not under the control of Hamas but was filled with pro-Palestinian civilians.

That footage released by the IDF doesn't show what the speedboats where doing at the time or where the other 2 helicopters were nor do we know at what point during the assault that footage is taking place. The fact that its footage is so against the flotilla doesn't give it more credibility in my mind, it shows that they're carefully only releasing footage that puts them in a positive light.

For the record im not disputing the validity of the video but there are a number of things not shown that should be taken into account and we all know Israel wouldn't release footage that could be used against them.

We also have eyewitness account from American and German participants who claimed that tear gas, rubber bullets, and glass filled paintballs were used against them before they boarded.

I don't think we'll ever know what really happened on that boat but if you don't think Israel is capable of being at fault here then you're just as retarded as the people who think the activist are at zero fault. Israel's blockade has been repeatedly criticized by Amnesty International, the UN Human Rights Council, and other human rights groups because the blockage hurts the civilians of Palestine more than it hurts Hamas and it keeps hundreds of thousands of people homeless and starving without the necessary supplies needed to rebuild....

Tasdik · Post by **Tasdik** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:27 pm

The boat was filled with a bunch of idiots. Why are they idiots you ask?

1. Why on earth would you think that mobbing soldiers as they board is a good idea? I mean really.

2. This ship was warned that Israel would stop them. Yet they proceeded any way. So why on earth should they be surprised when the IDF descends upon them?

3. Israel offered to, after they had inspected the cargo, have it delivered over land to Gaza. If the boats primary concern was to actually get some much needed supplies to Gaza they would've cooperated with the Israel and avoided this drama.

They didn't expect armed swat teams to jump aboard in the middle of their trip. They obviously scrabbled together the melee defense in anticipation of them when they saw the israeli military boat, not something planned beforehand.

They. Were. Warned. :palm:

Website · Post by **Gladiator_RN** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:32 pm

You can say whatever you want, but if that fleet was really so peacefull why did they attack the soldiers with chairs, catapults, metal sticks and more? If 10 people were hitting me with metal sticks and i had a gun to protect myself I would shoot too.

XemnasXD · Post by **XemnasXD** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:13 am

Tasdik wrote:The boat was filled with a bunch of idiots. Why are they idiots you ask?

1. Why on earth would you think that mobbing soldiers as they board is a good idea? I mean really.

They claim, and american and german reporters with them also claim, that they were being shot at before they were boarded. If you were on a ship trying to get somewhere and suddenly it was boarded by people who had no intention of letting you pass and started shooting at you what would you do. Obviously someone started attacking them so they attacked backed. Israel has no authority in international waters so they had every right to be there. You can't fault them for fighting back, its what most people would've done in a situation like that.

If it was an Israeli ship full of civilians carrying aid to Israel so the people of Israel could rebuild homes, drink water, and ward off illness and it was boarded by Hamas(note hamas had nothing to do with the foltilla) would you expect those Israelis to just roll over and allow the much needed aid not to reach their target or would you expect them to resist.

2. This ship was warned that Israel would stop them. Yet they proceeded any way. So why on earth should they be surprised when the IDF descends upon them?

The IDF had no authority there. Anyone would be surprised to see them so far from the area where they are supposed to operate. It would be like if a cruise ship carrying aid was going to Haiti but Cuba intercepted them and demanded they allow themselves to be boarded.

3. Israel offered to, after they had inspected the cargo, have it delivered over land to Gaza. If the boats primary concern was to actually get some much needed supplies to Gaza they would've cooperated with the Israel and avoided this drama.

Israel is NOTORIOUS for not allowing all the aided needed in Gaza, to reach Gaza. This has been backed up by Amnesty International AND the UN who both condemn the blockade as outright inhumane. Those people wanted to be sure that ALL the aid they were bringing would reach the people of Gaza instead of only the aid that Israel let through

Love · Post by **Love** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:17 am

Tasdik wrote:The boat was filled with a bunch of idiots. Why are they idiots you ask?

1. Why on earth would you think that mobbing soldiers as they board is a good idea? I mean really.

2. This ship was warned that Israel would stop them. Yet they proceeded any way. So why on earth should they be surprised when the IDF descends upon them?

3. Israel offered to, after they had inspected the cargo, have it delivered over land to Gaza. If the boats primary concern was to actually get some much needed supplies to Gaza they would've cooperated with the Israel and avoided this drama.

They didn't expect armed swat teams to jump aboard in the middle of their trip. They obviously scrabbled together the melee defense in anticipation of them when they saw the israeli military boat, not something planned beforehand.

They. Were. Warned.

They had no right to put one foot on that boat, as simple as that. You can argue all you want mobbing people with guns is stupid but regardless of that stupidity violence/bigger guns does not translate into rightful authority.

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Ftr "I think" that statement totally makes you "sound" like a tool.

edit: Let's subscribe Gladiator_RN to those thoughts.

McLovin1t · Post by **McLovin1t** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:09 am

Jstar1 wrote:I think its one of the world's top 10 incredible ironies that jews got raped by hitler back in '45 but now israel is doing the same kind of thing themselves. Obviously there aren't any concentration camps or mass executions but hey, killing innocent people, shooting phosphorus nades, and treating palestinians like dirt in general..seems no different to me.

Are you tarded?
The Palestinians (PLO, etc.) have been showing aggression to Israel, spending all funds in a corrupt manner, or on weapons, and then when Israel works on the economy, industrializes, and in general pwns, it's bad?
They have been the center of war (ALWAYS being attacked first), so then they can't attack back? Especially when a group like Hamas (or related to Hamas in any situation) brings a paintball gun, to a hot spot like this, of course you would expect retaliation. Killing innocent people is incorrect my friend, they are following utilitarianism, to protect their own people justly.
My question is why would this boat (a human rights organization boat) bring paintball guns to Gaza? It makes no sense. Why do the poor people need paintball guns? It's a ridiculously fishy story, and these people just provoke Israel, so tards like you think, "omg Israel is terrible."

ofy1993 wrote:
Jstar1 wrote:I agree with ofy, no one knows what happened on that ship except the people who were actually there. We can rage over the footage all we want though. And the people on the aid ship did not decide to prepare knives and metal bars when they set sail for gaza. They didn't expect armed swat teams to jump aboard in the middle of their trip. They obviously scrabbled together the melee defense in anticipation of them when they saw the israeli military boat, not something planned beforehand.

If the activists really wanted to hurt or kill israelis..well hamas would be glad to accept them. Or they would have stored guns or bombs on their ship. This is an aid ship ffs.

indeed.

Also people should watch this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle ... 200658.stm

There's a lot of people saying the people on the ship attacked the soldiers first but you have to consider this,

Why were the soldiers even ON THE SHIP? The ship is 50 miles of off the coast so it's still in international waters and Isreal had no right to even be there.

Please. Don't talk about international rights. Terrorist organizations like the Hamas have no respect for their own people or others. They are protecting their citizens under all costs. They have been maliciously attacked, and when the boats don't submit to search, and have guns/melee weapons on the ship, why wouldn't Israel retaliate. Of course some fault may be there, but you must understand Israel must not be blamed.
Israel has the right when it is to protect it's own national security, which has been in severe risk in that hot spot, and many others for decades.

Ashikiheyun · Post by **Ashikiheyun** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:22 am

Tasdik wrote:The boat was filled with a bunch of idiots. Why are they idiots you ask?

1. Why on earth would you think that mobbing soldiers as they board is a good idea? I mean really.

2. This ship was warned that Israel would stop them. Yet they proceeded any way. So why on earth should they be surprised when the IDF descends upon them?

3. Israel offered to, after they had inspected the cargo, have it delivered over land to Gaza. If the boats primary concern was to actually get some much needed supplies to Gaza they would've cooperated with the Israel and avoided this drama.

They didn't expect armed swat teams to jump aboard in the middle of their trip. They obviously scrabbled together the melee defense in anticipation of them when they saw the israeli military boat, not something planned beforehand.

They. Were. Warned.

Do you know what the point of a protest is? I've been following the progress of this fleet and the aftermath since they left for Gaza. It was as much a protest and way to show the international community what is going on, as much as it was a humanitarian aid mission.

As pointed out before, the ship was not within Israeli waters (which would be 12 miles off coast, 24 miles if you're stretching it), and therefore they had no technical rights to board the ships. Of course nothing will be done about this, because the U.N. security council was responsible for the creation of the state of Israel.

And no, those supplies would not have gotten through. Israel does not allow CEMENT into the Palestinian areas. You know why? Because they don't want them to be able to rebuild, be Israel wants to stomp out the original inhabitants of the land they have taken over. It's blatant human rights violation on the part of Israel. But as Reise (I think it was him) said, both parties are guilty of terrible acts, though I support Palestine more.

I can't string together an argument right now for crap, I'll come back and edit later or just reply if anyone else replies. :banghead:

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:39 am

one man's terrorist, another man's freedom fighter. Whether hamas is good/bad is up to which side people take. What a headache to think about.

@Mclovinit I don't care whether or not israel is right or wrong when they kill people and whatnot. My point is that its a huge irony that israel causes death and grief among palestinians whether it is direct or not. Jews got death and grief from nazi germany (of course not to the same degree) and now they are doing the same kind of stuff to others. Life is funny that way.

Why is it so hard to get along? Both sides fail hard. I bet they'll be killing each other until the day the earth blows up.

TheDrop · Post by **TheDrop** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:40 am

McLovin1t wrote:My question is why would this boat (a human rights organization boat) bring paintball guns to Gaza? It makes no sense. Why do the poor people need paintball guns? It's a ridiculously fishy story, and these people just provoke Israel, so tards like you think, "omg Israel is terrible."

what the hell are you talking about lol. The israeli soldiers attacked the ship w/ paint ball guns and pistols, the ship wasn't transporting paintball guns =_=. ironic how you started the post calling jstar retarded...

Jstar1 · Post by **Jstar1** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:42 am

UnbeatableDevil wrote:
McLovin1t wrote:My question is why would this boat (a human rights organization boat) bring paintball guns to Gaza? It makes no sense. Why do the poor people need paintball guns? It's a ridiculously fishy story, and these people just provoke Israel, so tards like you think, "omg Israel is terrible."

what the hell are you talking about lol. The israeli soldiers attacked the ship w/ paint ball guns and pistols, the ship wasn't transporting paintball guns =_=. ironic how you started the post calling jstar retarded...

ironies abound.

TOloseGT · Post by **TOloseGT** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:47 am

appeasement

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relevant video from norman finkelstein

.curve · Post by **.curve** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:13 am

Yo, killing peoples is bads.

World Peace <3

McLovin1t · Post by **McLovin1t** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:32 am

Jstar1 wrote:
UnbeatableDevil wrote:
McLovin1t wrote:My question is why would this boat (a human rights organization boat) bring paintball guns to Gaza? It makes no sense. Why do the poor people need paintball guns? It's a ridiculously fishy story, and these people just provoke Israel, so tards like you think, "omg Israel is terrible."

what the hell are you talking about lol. The israeli soldiers attacked the ship w/ paint ball guns and pistols, the ship wasn't transporting paintball guns =_=. ironic how you started the post calling jstar retarded...

ironies abound.

They had weapons aboard. Why were they transporting weapons around Gaza?

Doppleganger · Post by **Doppleganger** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:09 am

When this happened i surfed on over to rev6 to see if server traffic was any better but it wasn't.

.curve · Post by **.curve** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:19 am

Doppleganger wrote:When this happened i surfed on over to rev6 to see if server traffic was any better but it wasn't.

lulululululululululul

Tasdik · Post by **Tasdik** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:07 am

Oh Mclovin. I Don't even know what to say...

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