Do you believe in fate..?

[EvGa]

Definitions of fate on the Web:

* destiny: an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
* destiny: the ultimate agency regarded as predetermining the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of destiny"

Yes, but I don't like using the word fate. I'd go with determinism over fate. There are differences, but it's hard to articulate.. basically, by fate I picture an ultimate destination regardless of the path you take. Determinism simply being a cause effect relationship of all actions and events. Yes, with determinism there will be an ultimate outcome, but do you call it fate or simply the result of all the previous causes..

Determinism, there is no free will.

Think of all things as a cause/effect relationship. Atom A interacts with Atom B causing it to interact with Atom C etc etc, causing a certain electrochemical state in your brain that 'pushes' you in the direction of 'choosing' to turn the TV on. The urge to not turn it on being less than the urge TO turn it on. You can then apply this to all other events, both living and nonliving.

Conclusion of an experiment done by Benjamin Libet:

Libet's experiments suggest that unconscious processes in the brain are the true initiator of volitional acts, and free will therefore plays no part in their initiation. If the brain has already taken steps to initiate an action before we are aware of any desire to perform it, the causal role of consciousness in volition is all but eliminated.

Susan Blackmore's common sense interpretation is "that conscious experience takes some time to build up and is much too slow to be responsible for making things happen."

[Stress]

Great stuff there, EvGa.

[/Pi]

I accept determinism (a much better term than "fate", as EvGa pointed out). It easily throws away free will and, together with it, the concept of morality. I still adhere, however, to this fabricated sense of free will because it's what keeps a society functioning. We have to have responsibility on our actions for any ethical system to work.

[Stress]

I accept determinism (a much better term than "fate", as EvGa pointed out). It easily throws away free will and, together with it, the concept of morality. I still adhere, however, to this fabricated sense of free will because it's what keeps a society functioning. We have to have responsibility on our actions for any ethical system to work.

Why do we need an ethical system?

[/Pi]

Why do we need an ethical system?

We need an ethical system for a functioning society. In almost all cases, it's translated into a legal system. These systems ensure the survival of an individual and/or our species.

[0l3n]

I accept determinism (a much better term than "fate", as EvGa pointed out). It easily throws away free will and, together with it, the concept of morality. I still adhere, however, to this fabricated sense of free will because it's what keeps a society functioning. We have to have responsibility on our actions for any ethical system to work.

Why do we need an ethical system?

If not, everyone would just kill eachother.

[EvGa]

I accept determinism (a much better term than "fate", as EvGa pointed out). It easily throws away free will and, together with it, the concept of morality. I still adhere, however, to this fabricated sense of free will because it's what keeps a society functioning. We have to have responsibility on our actions for any ethical system to work.

Why do we need an ethical system?

If not, everyone would just kill eachother.

Not necessarily. Humans have a base of empathy built by evolution. Built on that base is morality. If we lacked that, we wouldn't have made it this far as a species.

Morality and determinism gets tricky.

I think we derive our morality from:

a. Empathy through evolution.
b. social constructs.

Morals differ in different societies.

[0l3n]

I guess your right, though how come for instance in Africa, people still slaughter entire vilages?

Not saying your wrong just saying I think people overestimate human empathy when things like this still happen.

[/Pi]

Evolution isn't perfect, especially when it comes to non-physiological and behavioral traits. On top of that, add in the eusociality of our species. Empathy can be seen as our foundation. From that, we build upon social constructs such as governments and laws - insurances to our survival.

The slaughtering of other villages can have myriads of factors that come in. One could be the lack of these secondary systems.

[EvGa]

I guess your right, though how come for instance in Africa, people still slaughter entire vilages?

Not saying your wrong just saying I think people overestimate human empathy when things like this still happen.

Strong societal influences. "b." in my example above has too much influence.

[MrTwilliger]

I believe in a simple idea: life is what you make it. There is no destiny, there's no fate, we have no predetermined paths and what happens will be a result of our actions. Whether we are rich or poor, happy or sad, sick or ill, fit or unfit; it all boils down to the choices we make. It's not someones fate to grow up lonely, but if they act like a complete dickhole than chances are they will be. It's not someones fate to be fat, but if they are eating 7 pounds of fast food a day than it's bound to happen.

Everyone has a cause an affect behind it. The decisions we make now impact upon our present day situation as well as what is to come in the future. Life is a journey filled with a magnitude of problems, solution's and experiences. How we wish to tackle these issues and live our lives determines where we will be in the future.

Of course I have no proof to back up my statement. But honestly, do I need it? The fundamentals we live our lives but don't have to be correct, they just have to work for us. Some people are religious, some are spiritual and some believe in nothing. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, rather all that matters is that they are happy living life the way they do. Oh and as long as they don't hurt others in the process either, dam dickholes >_>

[Barotix]

Predestination? Nah, fck dat noize.

[Mirosuke]

Well then, i'd say it is abstract and surreal, so consequently false. Just like saying someone can predict the future. Causality (at it best).

[Crowley]

I like the idea of fate, but I don't believe in it.

[NuclearSilo]

No sh*t. I just killed someone. Please don't blame. It's cause and effect. Some atoms in my brain made me do so jk

Unless people can made a time machine, then you'd have a strong argument if fate exists or not. If you can jump in the future, then it means that everything is predefined, only time matters. In the same way, you can say that time machine is not possible because fate doesn't exist.
You can also argue that every move we made will make us jump into other parallel universe every second.

[CeLL]

Determinism, there is no free will.

[NuclearSilo]

If everything is inside our same brain, then why do people feel the need of differentiate conscious and unconscious? Does it really matter when it's atoms interact with atoms.

[CeLL]

If everything is inside our same brain, then why do people feel the need of differentiate conscious and unconscious? Does it really matter when it's atoms interact with atoms.

[xzaz]

No sh*t. I just killed someone. Please don't blame. It's cause and effect. Some atoms in my brain made me do so jk

Unless people can made a time machine, then you'd have a strong argument if fate exists or not. If you can jump in the future, then it means that everything is predefined, only time matters. In the same way, you can say that time machine is not possible because fate doesn't exist.
You can also argue that every move we made will make us jump into other parallel universe every second.

You say time as 4th dimension is equal to fate and if you can bend it you can change you fate.. i think that it is your fait to bend your time..... time as we know is just a way of messure a lengh of continues.

[bryanvan]

I know someone who does believe in faith!

John Lock!

[xzaz]

I know someone who does believe in faith!

John Lock!

he is dead /Jhon Lock

[bryanvan]

I know someone who does believe in faith!

John Lock!

he is dead /Jhon Lock

FACK YOU!

Hmmpff correction:

John Lock did!!

[NuclearSilo]

I know someone who does believe in faith!

John Lock!

Yes, and the black smoke monster really exists

[CeLL]

I know someone who does believe in faith!

John Lock!

Yes, and the black smoke monster really exists

yes, and ouija boards work.

[EvGa]

No sh*t. I just killed someone. Please don't blame. It's cause and effect. Some atoms in my brain made me do so jk

Unless people can made a time machine, then you'd have a strong argument if fate exists or not. If you can jump in the future, then it means that everything is predefined, only time matters. In the same way, you can say that time machine is not possible because fate doesn't exist.
You can also argue that every move we made will make us jump into other parallel universe every second.

If everything is inside our same brain, then why do people feel the need of differentiate conscious and unconscious? Does it really matter when it's atoms interact with atoms.

What?

[Mirosuke]

It was predictable.. i mean, fate.

[*BlackFox]

Maybe, fate isn't some mysterious force.. xD but rather simply a term
used to describe what we cannot control.

[NuclearSilo]

Maybe, fate isn't some mysterious force.. xD but rather simply a term
used to describe what we cannot control.

Nothing is under anyone's control. It's all about physic. Atom A interacts with atom B, B interacts with C, etc...
Every trajectory of an atom is predefined : if A touches B, then A goes this way, B goes that way, etc...

[CeLL]

Maybe, fate isn't some mysterious force.. xD but rather simply a term
used to describe what we cannot control.

Nothing is under anyone's control. It's all about physic. Atom A interacts with atom B, B interacts with C, etc...
Every trajectory of an atom is predefined : if A touches B, then A goes this way, B goes that way, etc...

determinism then.

[NuclearSilo]

naaah, it's Cell theory