Army FAIL in Iraq

[Disconn3cted]

They killed innocent people because of their carelessness. Stuff like this is how terrorist are created. I'm surprised so many of you are okay with this. I've had enough.

[TheDrop]

They killed innocent people because of their carelessness. Stuff like this is how terrorist are created. I'm surprised so many of you are okay with this. I've had enough.

the "innocent" people who were stupid enough to go into a warzone with insurgents equiped with AK-47s and RPGs

[Disconn3cted]

They killed innocent people because of their carelessness. Stuff like this is how terrorist are created. I'm surprised so many of you are okay with this. I've had enough.

the "innocent" people who were stupid enough to go into a warzone with insurgents equiped with AK-47s and RPGs

I'm talking about the people in the van. Maybe they were doing something stupid too, but it doesn't justify killing them.

[Evil_Venom]

They killed innocent people because of their carelessness. Stuff like this is how terrorist are created. I'm surprised so many of you are okay with this. I've had enough.

the "innocent" people who were stupid enough to go into a warzone with insurgents equiped with AK-47s and RPGs

I'm talking about the people in the van. Maybe they were doing something stupid too, but it doesn't justify killing them.

Soldiers dont have god damn xray vision. How did the soldiers know the people in that van weren't going to help the injured person and then pull out RPGs and shoot the helicopter down. That van was a potential threat that had to be eliminated. Soldiers aren't told to wait until the rocket is fired but to prevent the rocket from being fired. Although the people in the van were just trying to help they were still a qualified target and were treated as such.

[Azilius]

They killed innocent people because of their carelessness. Stuff like this is how terrorist are created. I'm surprised so many of you are okay with this. I've had enough.

the "innocent" people who were stupid enough to go into a warzone with insurgents equiped with AK-47s and RPGs

I'm talking about the people in the van. Maybe they were doing something stupid too, but it doesn't justify killing them.

Are you really that narrow minded

What if they waited and got shot down? RPG headed your way because the people in the van 'could be innocent'.

When you're in a war zone your though process is usually like this.

My life > their life. Kill or be killed.

There's no time to pick your nose and ponder about the innocence of suspects. The people in the van could have been salvaging weapons, information on the insurgents or a number of other things. They knew the consequences of running out of a van to pick people up.

You tell me, someone starts bombing American soldiers and you run out to help one, do you think they would hesitate to shoot YOU? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the friend of my enemy is my enemy. Simple thought process for most cases..

[Disconn3cted]

"Are you really that narrow minded

What if they waited and got shot down? RPG headed your way because the people in the van 'could be innocent'.

When you're in a war zone your though process is usually like this.

My life > their life. Kill or be killed.

There's no time to pick your nose and ponder about the innocence of suspects. The people in the van could have been salvaging weapons, information on the insurgents or a number of other things. They knew the consequences of running out of a van to pick people up.

You tell me, someone starts bombing American soldiers and you run out to help one, do you think they would hesitate to shoot YOU? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the friend of my enemy is my enemy. Simple thought process for most cases.."

I'm sure they would but that still doesn't make it right. These soldiers are supposed to be protecting Iraqi civilians not murdering them. The enemy of my friend doesn't have to be my enemy and a friend of my enemy doesn't have to be my enemy. Stuff like this is bad because it will be used to create terrorist.

[TheDrop]

morals mean shit in a war. i dont see why you dont get it -_-

[Disconn3cted]

To a certain extent morals don't mean anything anywhere because they are decided by culture. I wouldn't consider killing innocent people to go against anyone's morals because it is too universal. Anyway, those soldiers didn't think the guy in the van was going to shoot them. They shot at the van because they didn't want those people to get away with the injured man. The only time in this video where they thought they were in danger was when the guy looked around the corner holding what seemed to be an RPG. It could be argued that killing him was self defense, but there is no excuse for killing the people who tried to rescue that guy.

[Azilius]

So you'd shoot a terrorist, then let someone rescue him so he can potentially harm millions of people?

Your logic defies what you say.

[BuDo]

To all you asswhipes that think the van was a valid target at the time and saying sh*t like "the soldiers don't have x-ray vision"...Did it looked like the soldiers care whoever was in the van? Did you notice their remarks after knowing that they shot a little girl? Does that show they give a dam?

How about when they decide to rocket the building afterwords? Did they care that maybe just maybe this time there might be innocent people inside that building? Why are you guys rationalizing their actions? I might understand you pricks rationalizing the first attack but the second? and the third? really?

Why not just come out and say it..are you pricks afraid to say you don't give a dam about the people living in that town and could care less if they all die. Co'mon now don't be pus**ies.

[Azilius]

Why do you have to call people names for no reason and ruin an argument entirely? Grow up please. Not everyone is going to agree with you but that's no reason to lash like like a child. If your only argument is name calling then I'd like to think you lost.

[BuDo]

Why do you have to call people names for no reason and ruin an argument entirely? Grow up please. Not everyone is going to agree with you but that's no reason to lash like like a child. If your only argument is name calling then I'd like to think you lost.

If all you saw in my post was name calling then you're a prick...where is the care for innocent human lives?

[Reise]

It's not like they can stop and cry their eyes out, they had a job to do.

That guy has to live with what happened that day, what he said was his first reaction. You can bet he will wish he had done things differently when he reflects on it.

Even though the kids didn't die it's still gonna stick with him.

[Nick Invaders]

There are worse things than death, and eternal guilt is one of them.

[William-CL]

This is a horrible thing indeed. But why is everyone so focused on one event? You can't change what happened, you can only hope people learn from it. Things like this happen every day, they just aren't recorded. The soldiers in this video should indeed be punished because that's just plain stupidity.. and if they are that careless, then what says they won't do it again. To many people join the military just to kill people believe it or not. It's not about fighting for freedom or anything, it's purely selfish. None of us here were there when this even took place, so we ourselves have no place to judge them because everything looks different behind a lens. I'm not saying it's ok because I agree the situation was a big extreme. But the bitching and moaning about what they did won't change anything because it's a known fact that the US Army does not always take responsibility for it's actions.

[EvGa]

None of us here were there when this even took place, so we ourselves have no place to judge them because everything looks different behind a lens.

The soldiers in this video should indeed be punished because that's just plain stupidity.. and if they are that careless, then what says they won't do it again.

Ok...



I swear, no one reads the thread or the official reports before replying. Typical knee jerk emotional replies.

[asusi]

None of us here were there when this even took place, so we ourselves have no place to judge them because everything looks different behind a lens.

The soldiers in this video should indeed be punished because that's just plain stupidity.. and if they are that careless, then what says they won't do it again.

Ok...



I swear, no one reads the thread or the official reports before replying. Typical knee jerk emotional replies.

Dude, who wrote those official report?
And why did they prevent this video to get to publicity? IF they were innocent? stop bullshitttttttt

[EvGa]

Dude, who wrote those official report?
And why did they prevent this video to get to publicity? IF they were innocent? stop bullshitttttttt

I think you left your tin foil hat at home, watch out, they're coming for you.

[asusi]

Dude, who wrote those official report?
And why did they prevent this video to get to publicity? IF they were innocent? stop bullshitttttttt

I think you left your tin foil hat at home, watch out, they're coming for you.

just answer the question, otherwise just stfu.

[EvGa]

Dude, who wrote those official report?
And why did they prevent this video to get to publicity? IF they were innocent? stop bullshitttttttt

I think you left your tin foil hat at home, watch out, they're coming for you.

just answer the question, otherwise just stfu.

The eyewitnesses on the scene of the engagement, the US Air Calvary, sworn statements from air cavalry men, etc. I linked to an entire thread and site with the documents.

Your next response will be, "how can you trust them, dur dur derp!?". So, find your tin foil hat yet?

Why wasn't it released? I dunno lol? Maybe because people like you who don't know the rules of engagement on a battlefield would blow it out of proportion with your armchair analysis and emotional knee jerk reactions?

BTW - The official air cavalry conclusion found no wrong doing. Read it.

Just to reiterate, as I've said countless times already, it is extremely unfortunate that the children and journalists were involved, but the pilots acted as they should given the situation. /thread.

[William-CL]

Dude, who wrote those official report?
And why did they prevent this video to get to publicity? IF they were innocent? stop bullshitttttttt

I think you left your tin foil hat at home, watch out, they're coming for you.

Actually I borrowed it.

The USA is all secrets etc.. I know this from having a whole family in the army every generation since WW I . . .
Airforce/Marines/Navy/Army If you don't understand it, don't comment on the matter.

[EvGa]

Actually I borrowed it.

The USA is all secrets etc.. I know this from having a whole family in the army every generation since WW I . . .
Airforce/Marines/Navy/Army If you don't understand it, don't comment on the matter.

Dad, Marine. Grandfather, Marine (Vietnam). Uncle, Army, Uncle, Navy, Stepdad, Navy. Not as much conflict seen as your family, but a military family regardless.

Sure there are plenty of secrets to go around, but this case: video, official reports, etc is pretty cut and dry.

[BloodyBlade]

I would have shot the van too.. But the first part of the vid is just horrible :/ I think an rpg is pretty easy to see.
But who am I, I'm just a normal person that spends his time on SRF.

[LillDev!l]

Oh please disconnected.
Your comparing 'a van driving into a warzone where an apache helicopter had been shooting on people resulting in a damn carnage'
to
'what would you do if you saw some1 shot alongside the road, and have no idea who he is and how it happend'....
i think their actions are okay, shooting when they feel it is needed, because if you plan to wait it out, and see if they're actualy carrying an rpg, one might allreaddy be heading for your apache.

The only thing i believe was truely wrong is the way they acted about killing, laughing at the victims, feeling all high and mighty 'look at him crawl, pick up a weapon asshole, give me a reason'. they're not acting one bit professional, and thats pretty sickening.

[The Joker]

I think the reason for the soldiers to act so unprofessionally is that the U.S. army hardly prosecutes soldiers who commit crimes like this. U.S. soldiers in Iraq feel like they are Gods and that they can do anything they want.

If the U.S. army would prosecute more of these 'unprofessional' soldiers, other soldiers in the future would think twice before acting like this.

The main reason for such brutality and unhumanity in the U.S. army is the culture of not prosecuting soldiers and almost declaring soldiers holy.

Sure, one must respect and protect a soldier for serving his country, but that same soldier should not forget his responsibilities.

[EvGa]

lol...here we go again? Their comments may have been 'unprofessional' in your opinion, but their actions were to code and they performed how they should given the situation.

We should punish them for some shit they said?

As far as I know, no one in this thread has served in combat so no one here knows what it is like to kill people on a regular basis. Nor does anyone know how they would cope with doing so. Their comments may have seemed offensive to you, but do you really have a say in this? Do you know how you would comment in this situation? Maybe that's the only way for them to dehumanize the enemy so they don't go insane from having to deal with the fact they kill human beings regularly?

They said some offensive things.. ok. They did, however; perform their job as they should have. You may personally have a problem with what they said and hate them for it, that's fine, but should they really be punished? Come on now...

TL:DR They shouldn't have made those comments, but that is irrelevant to the question: should they be punished? They performed their job correctly. So no.

EDIT: late reply is late, I need some zzzzzz.

[The Joker]

Yes they should be punished, because they have damaged the reputation of the whole U.S. army.

What will people now think of the U.S. soldiers?

[William-CL]

Yes they should be punished, because they have damaged the reputation of the whole U.S. army.

What will people now think of the U.S. soldiers?

My first thought at them is "Douche Bags" has been for awhile, but that's just the first immediate thought. Then once I actually pay attention the Douche bags are a lot easier to weed out of the ones that are actually there to do their job and not satisfy their own Ego. Terrible things do happen. Good people do have to kill little kids that terrorists plant bombs on.. I have a family member who has unfortunately been on the bad end of that one. So stuff like this gets personal for me, because he also made a choice because the little girl/boy was carrying a box over to the soldiers and wouldn't stop when told in all native languages. He/She in fact did have a bomb strapped to him/her and in the box. But rather than letting his the soldier on the mounted 50 cal mow her down, he delivered a single shot to the head with his sidearm. Tough decisions are made everyday, the difference is how to acknowledge a mistake from a major screw-up. Screw up is what I see in that video.

[Shadow]

Soldiers are all human, too, in every army. All humans make mistakes, some abuse and even enjoy cruelties; and there's such people in every army. Hell, you could get kicks from killing too, and just not know it until you actually killed someone. Or perhaps you'd see nightmares for the rest of your life.

Obviously shit happens when you invade another country and try to keep it under control. Mistakes, those major screw-ups, and even outright abuse and cruelty.

There's an awesome way to prevent such, and as far as I know, it's the only way, too. A lot of countries have been using this policy, and I understande they've been very successful with it. It's called "not invading other countries".

[Azilius]

Why do you have to call people names for no reason and ruin an argument entirely? Grow up please. Not everyone is going to agree with you but that's no reason to lash like like a child. If your only argument is name calling then I'd like to think you lost.

If all you saw in my post was name calling then you're a prick...where is the care for innocent human lives?

It has already been summed up, with proof from EvGa. If you're still too ignorant to understand then yes, all I see now is the name calling because everything else you say is the same recycled shit from page 1.