Something about Christianity

[pr0klobster]

If you don't understand, I really can't explain it. The Old Testament is just that. It has its own lessons to be learned, but some of it should not be read as "literal" or requires context to interpret. No, it's not "ok" to stone someone, show me the verse that states that.

I'm not telling ANYONE to do anything. I'm asking OP to respect my beliefs. I respect his and wish he'd do the same. But simply stating that "Christianity is a killer, oh noes" doesn't wash. It is NOT the same religion of hate and anger everyone seems to think it is, no more than a broad statement that "All Muslims are evil". Extremism is bad, mmmkay?

I don't belong to any organized religion. I read the Bible, I follow God's word as best I can, and I screw up just like any other person does. I ask my God for forgiveness, and we move on.

That's what I believe and now that I look at it, is really irrelevant to the discussion. I just thought the original opinion was hogwash.

so youre saying the only way for you to explain things is for him to already understand??? doesnt this seem to be self defeating?

No, I am stating that I am not capable of fully explaining it, but that what I see and hold as my beliefs is that the Old Testament was the "old way" and the New Testament was a crossing point where Jesus died on the cross and gave his life for us. Yeah, a "hippie" deal simplified (and because I can't research much, I'm at work) Barotix kind of has it. I am not the best person to explain this.

[CeLL]

If you don't understand, I really can't explain it. The Old Testament is just that. It has its own lessons to be learned, but some of it should not be read as "literal" or requires context to interpret. No, it's not "ok" to stone someone, show me the verse that states that.

I'm not telling ANYONE to do anything. I'm asking OP to respect my beliefs. I respect his and wish he'd do the same. But simply stating that "Christianity is a killer, oh noes" doesn't wash. It is NOT the same religion of hate and anger everyone seems to think it is, no more than a broad statement that "All Muslims are evil". Extremism is bad, mmmkay?

I don't belong to any organized religion. I read the Bible, I follow God's word as best I can, and I screw up just like any other person does. I ask my God for forgiveness, and we move on.

That's what I believe and now that I look at it, is really irrelevant to the discussion. I just thought the original opinion was hogwash.

so youre saying the only way for you to explain things is for him to already understand??? doesnt this seem to be self defeating?

No, I am stating that I am not capable of fully explaining it, but that what I see and hold as my beliefs is that the Old Testament was the "old way" and the New Testament was a crossing point where Jesus died on the cross and gave his life for us. Yeah, a "hippie" deal simplified (and because I can't research much, I'm at work) Barotix kind of has it. I am not the best person to explain this.

exactly, self defeating. you just ran in front of an army of heavily armed men with a spork in hand. good luck.

[inky]

If you don't understand, I really can't explain it. The Old Testament is just that. It has its own lessons to be learned, but some of it should not be read as "literal" or requires context to interpret. No, it's not "ok" to stone someone, show me the verse that states that.

I'm not telling ANYONE to do anything. I'm asking OP to respect my beliefs. I respect his and wish he'd do the same. But simply stating that "Christianity is a killer, oh noes" doesn't wash. It is NOT the same religion of hate and anger everyone seems to think it is, no more than a broad statement that "All Muslims are evil". Extremism is bad, mmmkay?

I don't belong to any organized religion. I read the Bible, I follow God's word as best I can, and I screw up just like any other person does. I ask my God for forgiveness, and we move on.

That's what I believe and now that I look at it, is really irrelevant to the discussion. I just thought the original opinion was hogwash.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the reason behind the cherry-picking. If not for that, the Christian population would probably dwindle down to a select bunch of violent degenerates.

Most of the people in my family (well, all of them except for me) belong to a Christian sect so I know that simply because it's in the book, doesn't mean people follow it. They're peace-loving individuals who simply find comfort in their religion. I get that.

===

You seriously can't find anything in that book of yours that shows it's not all about cotton candy, care bear, and Jesus rainbows?

Happy reading.

Spoiler!

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city."
Deuteronomy 22:23-24

"If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die."
Deuteronomy 17:2-5

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."
Deuteronomy 13:5-10

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die."
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:27

"They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."
Numbers 15:32-56

"Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die."
1 Kings 21:10

**I have to agree that the thread title seems like it was made specifically to provoke Christians - don't really agree with the harsh sentiment.

edit: Holy shit I fucking hate typos.

[pr0klobster]

exactly, self defeating. you just ran in front of an army of heavily armed men with a spork in hand. good luck.

Thanks.

[pr0klobster]

You seriously can't find anything in that book of yours that shows its not all about cotton candy, care bear, and Jesus rainbows?

Oh, I definitely can. But that is not how we are supposed to live.

Gah...I am frustrated, don't have time to discuss this further. Thanks for listening though.

[Barotix]

Well, in catholic school, I was taught that the coming of the Christian Messiah was the "dawn of a new era." The sins of Christians were forgiven and their prophet taught love not war or hatred and all that jazz. I could never take religion seriously, even today, where my friends are actively trying to convert me - and they're not aggressive about it so it's legit - I can't help but laugh on the inside whenever they're awed by what I consider to be myths and fairy tales.

[CeLL]

If you don't understand, I really can't explain it. The Old Testament is just that. It has its own lessons to be learned, but some of it should not be read as "literal" or requires context to interpret. No, it's not "ok" to stone someone, show me the verse that states that.

I'm not telling ANYONE to do anything. I'm asking OP to respect my beliefs. I respect his and wish he'd do the same. But simply stating that "Christianity is a killer, oh noes" doesn't wash. It is NOT the same religion of hate and anger everyone seems to think it is, no more than a broad statement that "All Muslims are evil". Extremism is bad, mmmkay?

I don't belong to any organized religion. I read the Bible, I follow God's word as best I can, and I screw up just like any other person does. I ask my God for forgiveness, and we move on.

That's what I believe and now that I look at it, is really irrelevant to the discussion. I just thought the original opinion was hogwash.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the reason behind the cherry-picking. If not for that, the Christian population would probably dwindle down to a select bunch of violent degenerates.

Most of the people in my family (well, all of them except for me) belong to a Christian sect so I know that simply because it's in the book, doesn't mean people follow it. They're peace-loving individuals who simply find comfort in their religion. I get that.

===

You seriously can't find anything in that book of yours that shows its not all about cotton candy, care bear, and Jesus rainbows?

Happy reading.

Spoiler!

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." Deuteronomy 22:23-24

"If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die." Deuteronomy 17:2-5

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." Deuteronomy 13:5-10

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die." Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:27

"They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses." Numbers 15:32-56

"Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die." 1 Kings 21:10

**I have to agree that the thread title seems like it was made specifically to provoke Christians - don't really agree with the harsh sentiment.

those are laws for the nation of israel and the later nation of judea. these do no reflect modern christianity in the slightest. they are simply used now as a teaching tool.

Gah...I am frustrated, don't have time to discuss this further. Thanks for listening though.

learn your own beliefs before you go trying to teach them to others and you wont be.

[Isis]

Like I have said in the other religious thread, religion is a joke!!

:eyeroll:

Atheism is a joke. All better now?

I respect other people who are religious, that believe there is a so called god out there..

But when I have people knock on my door telling me to follow their god, because it is the right path to follow, they're not really respecting me are they?

There have been 2 threads made within the last few days about religion, and like all the other threads that have been made, they all end up in the same way... LOCKED!!

I believe there is life out there, but life on other planets. I believe in ghosts and I even believe in reincarnation, because scientists haven't yet found out what happens after death, if anything. I believe that everyone should be kind to each other, that there shouldn't be rape or murder, there shouldn't be wars.

[inky]

Like I said, cell, "cherry-picking"

Anyway... inb4lock

[CeLL]

Like I said, cell, "cherry-picking"

no cherry picking is deciding what you believe and dont. i dont live in ancient israel, nor judea. why would i be subject to their STATE LAWS?


as a matter of fact, many early followers of christ tried to enfoce jewish laws and rites upon gentiles that followed christ, and he told them not to do so. you should learn other peoples religion before trying to poke holes in their doctrine.

[inky]

Like I said, cell, "cherry-picking"

no cherry picking is deciding what you believe and dont. i dont live in ancient israel, nor judea. why would i be subject to their STATE LAWS?

You're forgetting that the people who wrote about the Bible have limited knowledge - if the USA existed during that time and people who belonged to their religion lived there, I'm almost certain it would've been applied to them as well.

My comment regarding cherry-picking of it is to show that even though some people might understand that it was limited to the people living in a certain era, during a certain time simply because the religion was not as widespread during the time it was written, they still say "it doesn't apply to us" even though they know well it would've been since their god is absolute in nature. People take what's convenient for them and get rid of what's not.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you should be subject to their "laws," I was simply pointing out that the Bible's not all about rainbows and unicorns. Take a chill pill.

Anyway, lemme get out of here. I'm sick of repeating myself. The same things will be pointed out in these threads. I'll leave it to the militant atheists and the high school students to debate on this.

[pr0klobster]

Like I have said in the other religious thread, religion is a joke!!

:eyeroll:

Atheism is a joke. All better now?

I respect other people who are religious, that believe there is a so called god out there..

But when I have people knock on my door telling me to follow their god, because it is the right path to follow, they're not really respecting me are they?

There have been 2 threads made within the last few days about religion, and like all the other threads that have been made, they all end up in the same way... LOCKED!!

I believe there is life out there, but life on other planets. I believe in ghosts and I even believe in reincarnation, because scientists haven't yet found out what happens after death, if anything. I believe that everyone should be kind to each other, that there shouldn't be rape or murder, there shouldn't be wars.

People knocking on my door telling me that I'm wrong aren't so much "disrespecting" me, that's not how I see it. But someone writing that "Christianity is a killer" is a little more off base I put that on the same page as "Muslims are killers".

As for the religion threads - I normally don't even post in these, and actually asked for the last one to be locked, way back on page 3. Most times you wouldn't be able to have a civilized discussion.

I apologize, the "atheism was a joke" was not really funny, more of a knee-jerk reaction to yours.

As to your beliefs - I respect those too...there shouldn't be rape or murder, agreed, we should try to be kind to one another. It's apparent even on these forums that in general, that doesn't always happen.

[CeLL]

Like I said, cell, "cherry-picking"

no cherry picking is deciding what you believe and dont. i dont live in ancient israel, nor judea. why would i be subject to their STATE LAWS?

You're forgetting that the people who wrote about the Bible have limited knowledge - if the USA existed during that time and people who belonged to their religion lived there, I'm almost certain it would've been applied to them as well.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you should be subject to their "laws," I was simply pointing out that the Bible's not all about rainbows and unicorns. Take a chill pill.

other nations were not subject to the laws of israel, so no the usa, being on the other side of the planet would not be subject to there laws. you ARE saying i should be subject to their laws if i am a christian. thats foolish. the bible is most certainly not all sweet and cute and cuddly. there is a great deal of evil within its covers. evil created by the very god of that bible.

[Goseki]

About that asia comment in page 1, here's more of it:

As the colonies spread out, there was active conversion. While some were small efforts to conver the people, I know in many smaller asian countries that were taken over, they ended up losing a lot of their culture. For example, look at Vietnam. After the French conquest, they lost all of their links with their old language. I think there might be a handful of Vietnamese that are able to read old manuscripts of their people. The writing was outlawed and the alphabet anglified. Similar story to what happened to the Mayans. It's one thing to force your culture down someone's throat, it's another to wipe out the old one and replace it with yours.

But Like I said at the beginning, I realize that many big societies do this to unify their territories, I was just thinking of how wide-spread Christianity is. I'm sure all big religion do this in some form, it's just that Christianity's effect is on a much bigger scale, lasting through pretty much every continent.

[inky]

Read up. And yes, technically, you should. Although I wouldn't endorse it.

Anyway..have fun. This thread's a fucking goldmine for highschool kids. =p

[Isis]

If other countries have our queen on their own money then it is their problem, even Scottish notes don't have the queen of England on them

I was trying to show the amount of influence and cultural change England still inflicts. It's 'their problem' indeed, but who do you think caused it? It's not like Canada thought "Gee, that queen is hot, let's put her on our money!"

You don't have to speak English..

Actually I do. Is there any other language we can communicate in? I'm not saying it's a terrible thing, I was just showing, again, the tremendous influence England has had throughout history, and still has.

But no need to go on the defensive, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I was just trying to say there's bigger fish than the Holy Roman Empire. I mean they barely got two continents farked up, England owned the whole world.

But all this happened along long time ago, the only reason England was able to own the whole world because we, as a country, built ships to sail to different continents, we had money and power, because we were able to trade with other countries continents. I know, like most countries our history isn't bright and colourful, but its history. And England has been invaded so many times during history.. I am proud to be English because of the history behind this tiny piece of land, but this tiny piece of land has somewhat fallen now.

And the whole speaking English, like I said you don't have to, but you choose to speak it. You only speak it because people understand you, do you speak English when you are with your friends and family.. Probably not.

[Isis]

People knocking on my door telling me that I'm wrong aren't so much "disrespecting" me, that's not how I see it. But someone writing that "Christianity is a killer" is a little more off base I put that on the same page as "Muslims are killers".

As for the religion threads - I normally don't even post in these, and actually asked for the last one to be locked, way back on page 3. Most times you wouldn't be able to have a civilized discussion.

I apologize, the "atheism was a joke" was not really funny, more of a knee-jerk reaction to yours.

As to your beliefs - I respect those too...there shouldn't be rape or murder, agreed, we should try to be kind to one another. It's apparent even on these forums that in general, that doesn't always happen.

I am an atheist, but I also believe there is more to life, then just existing. But I don't believe in a god, never have done and never will..

There is a lot of hate in the past, that shouldn't really need to be there and most of it revolves around religion, be it, Muslim, Christianity, Judaism etc. Just because someone believes in something totally different to someone else, you don't need to hate them for it, at the end of the day we're all the same. Even if our skin colour is different, our languages are different or big or small, we are all human and have to live together.

Edit: sorry double post

[Shadow]

Perfectly natural, cultures die and new ones develop. Just like people die and people are born. The cause may be internal, like cancer, or external, like someone driving over you with a car. Cultures may fade away, develop into something else or get overrun by a stronger one. You can't really punish an idea or religion like you can punish a person who drove over you. Sure, you can blame christianity, or communism or any other idea or religion, but does that lead you anywhere? Is it even logical to blame something so abstract?

It's not so straight forward with the people who spread christianity. It was not seen as destroying other cultures, but saving people from condemnation, bringing order and enlightenment, doing god's work. Now that we see the results, and can see it from a view not clouded by religion, we may disapprove of what was done.

People can not be punished or blamed for a belief; not for believing in a god, not for believing their religion is the only good religion. The mind is free space, with no laws or regulations. The acts committed in the name of those beliefs may be condemnable, though..

I think calling christianity "the ultimate killer of people's culture and heritage" is exaggerating. Of course it shaped cultures. It certainly did not "wipe out" the cultures of whole continents.

[woutR]

@ Bastet, no need to defend yourself being British. Like I said I was just saying there's other baddies too, with England being the, imo, ultimate bad boy. You asked for an explanation why I think England was the baddest of them all, I gave it to you.

Anyways, I really wasn't trying to make any point here about that being English is bad. (Though given current situations it's not preferable either, but that's a different matter )

[Isis]

@ Bastet, no need to defend yourself being British. Like I said I was just saying there's other baddies too, with England being the, imo, ultimate bad boy. You asked for an explanation why I think England was the baddest of them all, I gave it to you.

Anyways, I really wasn't trying to make any point here about that being English is bad. (Though given current situations it's not preferable either, but that's a different matter )

But you're judging England being bad because of something that happened a long time ago, are you also saying Germany is bad because they slaughtered a lot of Jews a long time ago?

[Blinxx]

I do know that in any religion, there will be "abusers" who abuse the religion to gain personal benefits and make that religion look ridicilous.

QTF

[CeLL]

lol never would I have thought there would be more Muslims to defend Islam when being attacked by atheists then there are Christians enough to defend Christianity.

Not much I can add here since I don't know a lot about Christianities influnce on the world but I do know that in any religion, there will be "abusers" who abuse the religion to gain personal benefits and make that religion look ridicilous.

The other day, one of my teachers was talking about how in the Dark Ages, popes started selling lands of "heaven" for money. Certainly a ridicilious thing. If Christianity really does allow this, I'm gonna shut up and let the thread go the way it was going.

But, if Christianity does NOT allow that yet popes made it up to gain personal needs, I'm going to have to ask the OP (aka the nerdrager on religon) to know that it was just extreme abuse of the religion and nothing else that "held back" advancement.

exactly. the truth of the bible has been distorted for personal gain in as much as the truth of the quran has been distorted for its current misuses.

[Isis]

It was just those people that knew there is no god, and they were clever enough to abuse it

[CeLL]

exactly. the truth of the bible has been distorted for personal gain in as much as the truth of the quran has been distorted for its current misuses.

Give me ONE LINE, *saying this in extremely loud noice but not in a shouting matter* ONE LINE which has manipulated in the Quran and I will leave Islam forever, become an atheist for the rest of my life and will try to "save" Muslims who are blinded to not see that the Quran was manipulated.

Edit.

Wait whut, you said "distorted for its current misuses". My bad, misread.

Surely Islam is being used wrong in places as well. If Islam was being used perfectly following every step of our Prophet(pbuh), we would of been outadvanced by the Western World.

The Ottoman Empire is the perfect example of this. It became the World's greatest power for over 400 years while FOLLOWING EVERY step and word of our Religion and Prophet(pbuh) (of course this does not mean we did not have sinners).

Yet, fail emporers came to throne and led the Muslims to a dark age where the Western world advanced in a tremendous speed. Thus the era of "western is better then us, we should do what the do" began and down went the Ottoman Empire.

see how close that was to a fack mather? watch yourself mister.

[Blinxx]

lol

oh you two

[salmissra]

Adding on the Comment on page 1 on Asia:

Being from Malaysia, and being an Indian, I am very thankful to the British colonization of India. They united us, call it in a negative and cruel manner as in imposing their government and rules on to them, but they did what India could not have done in decades to come. Before the British Raj took establishment, India was a region of seperate cultures, languages, and probably would have hindered their future advancement. Even if the Britains had undertoned their conquests and establishments across Asia with bringing the non-Christians to salvation, and may have cruelly and unjustfully governed parts of the said region of the world, India along with Malaysia would have been far behind if compared to their modern day standings in the world. Heck, if it weren't for them, I would most probably have to endure knowing that somewhere in my region of India, there is a poor widow being burned alive, while full-heartedly supporting it, simply because of the importance and commitment to their male partners.

tl;dr version: Christianity may seem as an evil force, with history to back it up, but I thank it for saving widows. (lol, u know wht i mean -.-) Oh and im atheist, just to put it out there ;D.

[NuclearSilo]

if anyone follows a religion, he shouldn't "kill" in general.