Kirk bashing on Charles Darwin

[iGod]

Atheism is lack of religion(theism), not belief there is no god...

[XemnasXD]

You see in the United States we have the great liberty of not having to put up with other peoples religious bullshit. Separation of Church and State, that means in a public school thats funded by the federal gov't you can't have anything religious supported by the school. Its not about which side is right and which side is wrong. Its the Law because the founding fathers said that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they please or none at all and the gov't will show no bias or preference to any of them. They didn't follow it to the letter but thats the basic idea. Bible can't be taught in public school for that reason, no religious material can.

Now the reason why evolution is taught in school is because its Science. When you walk into a chemistry class you are there to learn Chemistry, the study of matter. The study of how molecules interact with one another to change physical and chemical properties. That is what you are supposed to learn. It has nothing to do with Atheism, you aren't learning this stuff to disprove religion, you're learning it because its fact. If you should find that Chemistry goes against YOUR religious beliefs that's YOUR problem, not a problem with science. Science is unbiased, science isn't based on refuting religion. The same goes for Biology, the study of living things. Biology and evolution are unbiased facts. Its not one guys point of view or some random persons side of the story. There is evidence to back it up what is taught, alot of evidence. That it goes against YOUR religious beliefs is agin, YOUR problem. If you want your kids to learn facts, unbiased and tested to the best of everyones knowledge then let them learn what is being taught.

Its not about sides of a story, there is only one story. The story is Science. Science that is tested, proven, researched, documented and based on the facts. If you don't agree with Science then that doesn't make your story valid or even worthy of the same recognition. It just means you don't agree with Science. If you want to open your kids up to the ideas of higher beings than put them in a Theology or Philosophy class. You don't start mixing up subject so that the story is tilted to your side. Math is Math. History is History. Biology is Biology. They are based on facts to the best of our knowledge. The idea of a higher being does not belong in any other classes anymore than it belongs in Biology. What if your kids were taught WWII was started by the devil working through Churchill so that he could defeat Germany who was supported by God. Or if we turned math into some like 1+1=whatever god is telling you it equals. Or that Plants and animals where created by a big invisible guy...oh wait. See how retarded it sounds when you start mixing supernatural teachings into subjects where they don't belong. If you walk into a Biology class you should be taught Biology, not Biology+faith based beliefs. Not the class for that. Wrong subject.

The whole argument isn't about religious people wanting an alternative side told. Its about them imposing their beliefs in the subject that they think contradicts it the most. If they were really interested in opening peoples minds to different possibilities they would do it in the subject or area that deals with that. Not in science class...a class that is supposed to be based on solid proven facts....

That's scientism : the mis-application of science to metaphysics.
Funny thing is you're not even aware that you're in fact practicing religion with such a speech.
You can't apply the scientific method to known anything about reality because between you and reality there are your senses and your brain which are a conditionning that is starkly undepassable through an analytical approach.
Science is utilitarian, nothing more.
If you want to talk about what is and what isnt, go to metaphysics.

No, the thing is you're just as dumb as that guy in the other thread who thinks that just because you can't prove something doesn't exist it has just as much validity as things that do exist despite all evidence to the contrary. Chemistry has nothing to do with a particular set of philosophic or religious beliefs, chemistry is about science, if you go into a lab and try to apply philosophic or religious beliefs to an experiment you could kill someone. The same goes for Biology. It has nothing to do with religion. That is not the subject. Biology is the study of living things. Its science. Not the philosophic or religious interpretation of living things. That is not the subject. You can call it a belief system but its one that all things are proven to obey, hard concrete evidence, its not a belief, its a fact. Im not taking a leap of faith when i walk outside because i know the ground is solid and i know why its solid. Fact, not belief.

The fact that reality is subject is more retarded thinking. Even if people know that no one goes through life like that. Our science isn't based on that. Your medicine isn't based on that idea. Your Home wasn't built on that idea. Your roads weren't built on that idea. Your food isn't based on that. We live in this limited world on this limited dimension. That is all we have to work with. You can say that its all subjective and i'll agree but if you tell me we should go through life like that i'll have you committed.

Science is not a religion. "Sciencetism" is tool used by religious people to try and bring down the art of science to their religion. Science is at its core using proven evidence to understand the world around us. We can only work with what we're given and this is the natural world, not the spiritual one. Just like 1+1 will always ALWAYS =2 many things in this universe follow the same order. The universe may seem random and thrown together to you but it a masterpiece of fine rules and boundaries, of "laws" and properties. Its not religion to understand these facts, its not like we're making gravity up, its very real and has very real properties that can't be talked away or unbelieved in. Its a fact. Science is understanding these facts. It would be insane if i had to walk into a lab everyday and say that this reaction was caused by either certain chemical compound structures OR ghost living in my test tubes. Thats not the world we live in and anyone who lives in that kind of world would probably be called crazy by most people....

[Bread_Fish]

Truie so let me clear this up if your an Atheist your on the path towards believing in satan?

are you saying Atheists are evil and are dictators using science and technology as a way to do this?

dont want a huge reply justa nswer those 2 questions

alright short and concise?

if you're an atheist (someone who believes there is no god) you are serving a satanistic ploy to end all other religions than satanism. And by believing only in Matter you are believing in and worshipping the ruler of Matter and appearances, the great deceiver, the Adversary, that's our buddy satan / saturn / the master of time.
Hindis call it Maya, the great illusion.
It's the matrix, to take a hollywood reference. An atheist is a guy inside the matrix who believes that there is nothing outside of the matrix, whereas in fact the matrix is a virtual reality program that's being played in his mind and body by self-sentient machines.

Atheists arent evil dictators using science and tech to instaurate a utopian dictatorship but the founders and promoters of atheism since the 17th century are just that.

What Truie doesn't realize is Atheism and Science aren't interchangeable or related.

You can be a religious scientist, but not a believer in scientism who is also believer in a traditional religion. It's evidence that scientism (the belief that science is the best way to know and understand reality) is a religion.

One can be Atheist in the absence of Science, are we not born Atheist before we learn of the wonders of physics, chemistry, and biology?

Funny that you used the word "wonder" because it's all this talk is about. Does science see the world as a living wonder or as a senseless machine?
A religious scientist will be inclined to seeing the world as a living wonder, studying the properties of its phenomenons as a testimony of the glory of the "spirits" and "souls" underlying them.
A materialistic and atheistic scientist will be inclined to seeing the world, reality and human beings as senseless machines just good to be used and abused.

Inside a religious worldview you may declare that some "people" are merely animals but you will respect these "animals" as genuine "creatures of god" just like you respect other animals.

Whereas in a materialistic scientist worldview every animal, including homo sapiens, is just a senseless bio-robot : animated matter without any other rights than its might.

im going to try to make a nice concise reply...
first...there is no atheist hierarchy...or if there is ive never been invited to any of their tea parties (or any other atheist i know for that matter)
second... keep in mind the idea of the individual...atheists are all individuals, they came to their own conclusions throughout their lives (and those conclusions are ever changing) religious people were told what to believe and have ever since
last...im just going to go ahead and say WHAT THE ****
why would freemasons care?...theyre not the 1800s version of the league of evil it was basically a glorified national man cave

[[SD]Master_Wong]

Truie so let me clear this up if your an Atheist your on the path towards believing in satan?

are you saying Atheists are evil and are dictators using science and technology as a way to do this?

dont want a huge reply justa nswer those 2 questions

alright short and concise?

if you're an atheist (someone who believes there is no god) you are serving a satanistic ploy to end all other religions than satanism. And by believing only in Matter you are believing in and worshipping the ruler of Matter and appearances, the great deceiver, the Adversary, that's our buddy satan / saturn / the master of time.
Hindis call it Maya, the great illusion.
It's the matrix, to take a hollywood reference. An atheist is a guy inside the matrix who believes that there is nothing outside of the matrix, whereas in fact the matrix is a virtual reality program that's being played in his mind and body by self-sentient machines.

Atheists arent evil dictators using science and tech to instaurate a utopian dictatorship but the founders and promoters of atheism since the 17th century are just that.

What Truie doesn't realize is Atheism and Science aren't interchangeable or related.

You can be a religious scientist, but not a believer in scientism who is also believer in a traditional religion. It's evidence that scientism (the belief that science is the best way to know and understand reality) is a religion.

One can be Atheist in the absence of Science, are we not born Atheist before we learn of the wonders of physics, chemistry, and biology?

Funny that you used the word "wonder" because it's all this talk is about. Does science see the world as a living wonder or as a senseless machine?
A religious scientist will be inclined to seeing the world as a living wonder, studying the properties of its phenomenons as a testimony of the glory of the "spirits" and "souls" underlying them.
A materialistic and atheistic scientist will be inclined to seeing the world, reality and human beings as senseless machines just good to be used and abused.

your a tard and gtfo out of srf i choose not to believe in either god nor satan and to believe in 1 is to believe in both

the matrix isnt a messege about religion its a messege about psychology and philospohy in regards of the human nature we feel safer believeing in something then opposing something.

and the story is about our own creations aka we are playing god rising up against us not the other way round if you where to put this into a religious matter it shows that us (gods creations) will and should rise up beyond god

this is only scratching the surface of the hidden meaning behind the matrix

on top of all this different religions see satan differently simply not believing doesnt mean your evil and therefore should go to hell or and equal

Im gona put religion simply

its a way of control
its a way of dictatorship
its cruel
its not open to new ideas
it punnishes those who dont fall inline with what they think is right

im sorry for not wanting to be part of this

[Reise]

Atheism = Satanism?

That's news to me.

[Barotix]

Why are you dragging the matrix into this discussion, lol. Seriously? One of our resident scientist (Chemist, right?) strikes again.

Atheism = Satanism?

That's news to me.

Nah, lol.

[Caistrus]

MasterWong You can still be a religious person and still be open for other ideas...Charles Darwin was a religious person and he was open to other way of thinking, Da Vinci was the same way and so was other scientist. Humans share both sides Good and Evil even if you dont belive in god you still part of the religous world. I don't go church either cuz I'm the same way I think they just want to control people and i still belive in God and am always open up for new ideas!

[inky]

@Truie:

Lol pretty interesting reading your replies but you've heard my side of the story, which, I strongly believe, makes a lot more sense (I know you disagree) so I won't even bother making another long post that I know would fall on deaf ears.

Just a few things:

The whole thing you said about atheists being cogs in this... "atheist ploy" involving godless governments and whatnot that you speak of - I get where you're coming from; however, your beliefs regarding the ties of certain issues such as atheism, science, and other agendas are based on fallacious arguments. I personally think you're just a little hyped-up from reading Orwell and Huxley.

Also that thing about leaders being atheists - I wasn't talking Mr. Obama or whoever church-going president you want to mention. I was talking about dictators who ban religion because they believe it negatively affects people's loyalty to the government - you know that. So please don't chop my sentences to pieces to make yourself look intelligent.

And just so we're all on the same page here:

What's your definition of "Luciferian"? I mean, my first impression was that you were using the term based on its original non-Judeo-Christian meaning. But reading more of you posts made me realize that you're not that sharp to realize the flaws of linking atheism with the judeo-christian definition of Satanism.

Spoiler!

Don't mean to flame here but you strike me as NuclearSilo's long-lost twin brother. The whole pseudo-philosophical/intellectual attitude seem to radiate from you as well.

[_Scarlett_]

Truie seems a bit bat-shit crazy to me '~,o, but me like. If you're smokin' somethin' it must be gooood.

A big lol @ this topic though. Good entertainment for the afternoon ^.^ <3

[TheDrop]

Spoiler!

Don't mean to flame here but you strike me as NuclearSilo's long-lost twin brother. The whole pseudo-philosophical/intellectual attitude seem to radiate from you as well.

I was thinking about this as i read his posts...lols

[.Banshee]

Indeed if we want to understand religion we got to look at its origin : Sumer. In Sumer "the Gods" were very physical, real and flawed and had day to day interactions with hu-mans.

It's only after they vanished that we transfered our worship to ideas of spiritual beings.

Wrong as a matter of fact the first known religion was established in a small civilization called Catal Huyuk in modern day Turkey. As for Sumer and Babylon, the reason why the gods where like that and so unpredictable was because the Tigris and Euphrates rivers where unpredictable and would just randomly flood, destroying crops, fields, and drowning people and animals. They believed that the gods in anger would do this, therefore leading to them being kind of immature. Compare those gods to the gods of Ancient Egypt and you can see that the Egyptian gods were more predictable, kinder, and there is the theme of good vs. evil that can never be vanquished going on. This is because the Nile was more predictable than the Tigris and the Euphrates in it's flooding and the Nile enabled Egypt to be livable.

Um no, hello are you forgetting about the Hindu gods? What about the Greek gods? Roman?

[Love]

Trule do yourself a favor and shut up ... seriously the world is far too bussy to get you.

I actually read what he had to say. First of all, learn to spell "busy" and second of all, why are you even bashing him, he's not spamming, or even flaming, the dudes on topic. Unlike you.

Let me begin by letting you know that I don't need to learn to spell, the forum has a built-in tool that can take care of that ... so thank you ...


OS, I never implied he was spamming or flaming any1, he was clearly voicing his opinion and that is cool. The beauty of this though is that we all get to have one and for our own entertainment, we share it. Now let me defend the claim of me being off topic and while at it I'll randomly ( not so much ) call you stupid.

Our fairly smart and well spoken Truie, wait I don't even know of where I want to go with that. Ok maybe I wanted to go on record saying that I think he is fairly smart, even if he does this "mental gymnastics" to make everything fit his story. Moving on I'll actually present my argument and I'll go about it this way, the entire "God" thing is based on this one book we all know as the Bible ( which I have not read, you are welcome ).

At this point I realized I was going to be writing a lot so in the interest of having more than 1 person read this I'll change format.

-bible says earth is flat and religious entities killed a number of people for opposing them and their ways ( which makes his entire conspiracy theory somewhat ironic. Keeping track, I have not read the bible so we have to assume that the bible actually says this and the history I been thought is factual ).

-Earth is proven to not be "flat" and well this is the end of the bullshit book. At this point any efforts to defend the fairy tale are rendered futile and those defending it are clearly refusing to face reality, I don't think I need to explain why this is so.

-Dude alters the actual origin of god with his "reality" and/or version of events. So we get a lot of bs based on wishful thinking and the desire of this person ( or the one who thought him his not so simple conspiracy theory ) to make a somewhat logical reality he can live with.

- "Sure the bible says to turn the other cheek but An Eye For An Eye is cool too".

- I don't brand myself as an atheist or anything but by definition I certainly am one. Is none of my business what others think as long as it doesn't affect the world I live in. Money being wasted on building temples for the invisible gods affect my world therefore I am against it, I am not even going to make the actual enslave and colossal hypocrisy argument of the most dirty scumbags in history.

- Who benefits from not having religion ? Well the people, outside this no1 is building a secret empire. Does religion benefit from people not being part of their little bullshit flow circle ? Certainly not and that is bad couse in this day and age this means the end for them, no more killing the "anti-christ" and the "witch". Oh and wait who benefits from religion ? no1 besides those given power by the "absolute presence" religion is.

What do you know I think I wrote enough and dissed some of what I said I would do. Blurred proofread that for me since I haven't and next time spell "dude's" correctly. You sorta make yourself look like a jackass when do exactly what you deemed to be wrong.

[SnowShael]

God damn it, how did this go from Evolution to Religions and their roots/ Satanism and Atheism?

Either way, Science and Religion are and forever will be, separate. Religion is based on stories, first hand accounts of unexplained and most likely falsified or misinterpreted events and a set of rules + dictation from a higher power to provide order, peace of mind and answers to usually misguided, afraid people. Don't forget also... Faith. Science is observations, testing a hypothesis, coming out with repeatable results. Also, theories, ideas, the evolution and growth of knowledge and applying it to real life or explaining things in the natural world with.

Now, what should be allowed in public education? Facts. Science. Reality. I don't care what culture of yours tells you the planet is, what, 5-10k years old, it's wrong. Welcome to America; practice whatever the hell you wan't but the obstruction of knowledge or withholding the opportunity to learn what's factual, proper and right is onsetting such a poverty onto a young person, it should be a crime.

If a student wan't to take Theology, fantastic! If their parents or they themselves want to learn about the wrong answers to life and the world around us in terms of the origins of species, geology, our planet, our solar system, the universe, etc... Let them.

Really, it's that simple.

[CeLL]

lol i was flippin the channels and got to see kirk's douche bag ass on tv doing the same promo, while belittling some preacher cause he wasnt as holy as he was. hes such a bag.

[/Pi]

Basics. Basics. Basics. Definition. Definition. Definition.

I don't think this group could even ever come to an agreed conclusion on the definition of "atheism". And that's just one fucking word! Imagine defining "science" and having everyone agree to that definition. Then there's "agnosticism", which already has different forms in here. "Reality" is also getting butchered. Hell, let's not forget "god"!

The clusterfuck that results in not having a common ground... *le sigh*

[Love]

Basics. Basics. Basics. Definition. Definition. Definition.

I don't think this group could even ever come to an agreed conclusion on the definition of "atheism". And that's just one fucking word! Imagine defining "science" and having everyone agree to that definition. Then there's "agnosticism", which already has different forms in here. "Reality" is also getting butchered. Hell, let's not forget "god"!

The clusterfuck that results in not having a common ground... *le sigh*

Because making stuff up is fun.

[inky]

God damn it, how did this go from Evolution to Religions and their roots/ Satanism and Atheism?

Either way, Science and Religion are and forever will be, separate. Religion is based on stories, first hand accounts of unexplained and most likely falsified or misinterpreted events and a set of rules + dictation from a higher power to provide order, peace of mind and answers to usually misguided, afraid people.

Just a small correction: none of them are first hand accounts.

Spoiler!

Sorry I just had to.

@Love: You gotta admit though, the whole "Luceferian Atheism" thing was quite entertaining and funny.

[MonstaH]

My idea of how it works.

There's two things:

Religion [BRICKWALL] Science

Mixing them up is

a) not worthy of either "component" and
b) disastrous, since the only aim of "creationism" is to sell a religious mindset as science and by doing that push real science, i.e. darwinism, evolution, out of the schools' schedules.

I am fine with people "living in both worlds", having religious beliefs and on the other hand being open to science, but religious, e.g. Christian, fundamentalists, especially in the US, trying to sell a fusion of both fields while denying scientifically proven facts is just one of the biggest fiascos of this century so far.

I didn't read all of the posts in here, but in regards to what woutR said:

Being taught about religion and evolution as seperate subjects does NOT equal creationism, since both subjects exist in co-existance and, except for the person being taught both of them, don't directly interfere with each other. Creationism, on the other hand is, as I said, an aggressive movement to sell religious theories as science and therefore replacing "real" science.
This is where it becomes dangerous.

[All these points obviously only apply to the critical area of how the world and life was "established". Religion couldn't have much of an impact on other scientific fields.]