Gays and Muslims

[XemnasXD]

You don't seem to be misinterpreting. I am saying that the current evidence hows that homosexuality is less of a choice and more the result of random or determined biological factors due to the fact the homosexuals and heterosexuals are biologically wired differently depending on their sexuality. Under no other circumstance can humans replicate these types of results through simple choice or force of will so in my views, based on the evidence, homosexuality is no different.

Evidence aside i know i didn't choose this. I could relate my entire history with the issue with the addition of retrospect but believe me when i say tried to ignore it, deny it, fix it, and change it. For a very long time i saw it a problem that must have a solution because it was the last thing i needed on my plate and i very much wanted the 2.5 kids, the white picket fence, and the nice wife. After i acknowledged it as a problem it took me about 2-3 years to completely come to terms with and accept it. Its not a choice, i've been there and done that. If i could have picked i would have chose the normal option and gone for girls. I think i would've missed out on a so far pleasant life though.

@Zshared that last part gave first an example of genetics determining things and secondly an example of in utero effect determining things. They were examples of how certain things are determined before you come out of the womb in one way or another and to drive home my belief that homosexuality is one of those things. As for the animals yes. Most people cattle farm should probably be able to relate a story about Bulls who won't mate with Cows, only other Bulls. Mallard Ducks have been know to mate with a female to have eggs then steal the eggs and partner up with another male. Homosexuality has not and will not die out. It is a naturally occurring phenomenon within species of animal that have two sexes. Call it a defect or call it a mistake but science is quickly gathering the evidence that it is present throughout the animal kingdom as it has been documented in reptiles, fish, bird and mammals.

[Love]

ok are gay and muslims really worth this much attention ...

[cpinney]

Lets stop worrying about how/why somebody becomes gay, and how we can start taking care of the Muslims, who apparently have a worse disorder than homosexuality. Religion is the oldest way to control people, I think it has long out served its purpose. I understand we're all human, and don't always agree, and get along. But religion seems to make people think very primitavely. DADAADADAA THEY NO BELIEVE IN ME GOD ME BLOW THEM UP DADADADADA. Enough of it, either in 1000 years, everybody is going to be a Muslim, or nobody is going to be religious.

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

[Plutonium]

Lets stop worrying about how/why somebody becomes gay, and how we can start taking care of the Muslims, who apparently have a worse disorder than homosexuality. Religion is the oldest way to control people, I think it has long out served its purpose. I understand we're all human, and don't always agree, and get along. But religion seems to make people think very primitavely. DADAADADAA THEY NO BELIEVE IN ME GOD ME BLOW THEM UP DADADADADA. Enough of it, either in 1000 years, everybody is going to be a Muslim, or nobody is going to be religious.

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

I don't see how what he said was stupid? SM-Count claims that people choose to be gay, and that statement is like much worse than stupid, it's a retarded and ignorant homophobic statement. Gosh, if only people would have a brain. Speaking for myself and my many gay friends, being gay is NOT a choice. I don't know why SM-Count is so stubborn and shit.


On Topic:
This was on the news a few days ago http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/ ... newssearch

[Reise]

If you can be born gay, does that mean you can be born with certain fetishes too?

Serious question.

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

He has a point. Religion was and still is a centerpiece in many governments.

What better way to organize people than to make them all believe an all-powerful being will send them to hell if they don't behave?

[Mirosuke]

imo People choose, they don't born gay.
*sigh at topic and post*

[Love]

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

bit uncalled for but meh i guess you can get away with it

[Snickers]

I got a question for the retards in this topic.

How can you choose to be gay

[Sk8board]

KILLED?!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't kill him (YES WE!), in fact, there is rarely any gays in the Muslim world

[Love]

I got a question for the retards in this topic.

How can you choose to be gay

you just go. hey look there is a dick, i know ill shove it up my ass !

and just like that you made yourself a gay man, any questions ?

[Breed]

Lets stop worrying about how/why somebody becomes gay, and how we can start taking care of the Muslims, who apparently have a worse disorder than homosexuality. Religion is the oldest way to control people, I think it has long out served its purpose. I understand we're all human, and don't always agree, and get along. But religion seems to make people think very primitavely. DADAADADAA THEY NO BELIEVE IN ME GOD ME BLOW THEM UP DADADADADA. Enough of it, either in 1000 years, everybody is going to be a Muslim, or nobody is going to be religious.

Out of the millions upon millions of muslims out there, there are bound to be extremists.
You cant lump them into that bunch.
Not cool.

Anyone saying you CHOOSE to be gay or not.... Sigh.
If you CHOOSE to be gay, you are a fake.
You are GAY or BI or STRAIGHT.
Or confused
It's as simple as that.

[Reise]

I don't think you choose. I think something happens during a child's development that influences them. That doesn't mean something like your parents went out and got you stuff for the opposite gender, it just means as you grew up and your mind developed, it was conditioned, maybe subconsciously, toward certain behaviors.

But for all I know, psychologists might have ruled that out somehow.

[Plutonium]

I got a question for the retards in this topic.

How can you choose to be gay

When someone say something stupid like that, that person is either homophobic or is a dumbass. Plain and simple.

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

bit uncalled for but meh i guess you can get away with it

+1. Agree with you and Reese. IMO, Cpinney's post was out of line and i think it would be better directed toward SM-Count.

[Isis]

I think it really depends on which country they were born in or brought up in.

[Tig3ress]

*awaits doppelganger's "serious" response*

[Mindy]

whats wrong with being gay, a man doesn't choose to be gay, its the way he is born.

That's the thing.. it has not been proven nor disproved that people are born gay. I'm not a Muslim and I don't know what they believe on the subject.. but here is the christian bible's view;

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." would be the most straightforward I think.

about the animals you claim had homosexual tendencies.. could you give a little more information, Were there females around? I kind of find it hard to believe as if it were true.. and evolution were true (I'm assuming you believe in evolution here, correct me if I'm wrong) then the animals with the "gay gene" (Or whatever you'd like to call it) would have died out long ago due to.... not reproducing.

Animals can be gay to. If humans can be gay. Animals can also be gay. We are also animals. And i read somewhere that about 15% of a specie is homosexual.

I dont think you are born by being gay. People can discover that they are gay when they are about 20 years old. Before then they might just as well be straight.

[JuelzSantana]

you know i just had an argument about this with my aunt and some cousins the other night, she claims people are born gay and all that and that they deserve rights same as a married couple.

i have tons of gay friends. and if you're gay w/e its cool i dont care cuz im not gay and my views shouldnt interfere with other people's lives. let them live how they want to live is my motto.

on the contrary though.. being gay is not natural at all. people were made as puzzle pieces. u know that little box thing you had as a kid? the box with shape cut outs on it and then u had the little block shapes that u had to fit in the right slot for it? well thats how humans are. and some people have the slot, and some other people have the block piece. if u take 2 boxes and put em together or 2 puzzle pieces and put em together.. it doesnt quite work well. or if u want to argue about it (trying to keep it as clean as possible), anal - u take the puzzle piece and try to force it where it doesnt belong.. its extremely unclean and that is also not natural.

so in my eyes. if gay people get rights, cool w/e i dont really care but if they dont, im not going to fight for their rights because they were "born different" thats bull in my eyes. people know right from wrong and natural from not natural.. im sure there are a lot of muslim people that are gay BUT chose to be straight just for their own safety of course but as you can see its not impossible..

so for gay people thinking that people have to appease to them or something, nobody owes them anything because they were born with a biological problem..

i dont believe people should be killed for something that they couldnt control but i dont think they should be treated as we need to wipe their ass either.

edit: im going to my girlfriends house for the day so i wont be able to respond to this till much later if anyone replies to it ._.

[Mindy]

you know i just had an argument about this with my aunt and some cousins the other night, she claims people are born gay and all that and that they deserve rights same as a married couple.

i have tons of gay friends. and if you're gay w/e its cool i dont care cuz im not gay and my views shouldnt interfere with other people's lives. let them live how they want to live is my motto.

on the contrary though.. being gay is not natural at all. people were made as puzzle pieces. u know that little box thing you had as a kid? the box with shape cut outs on it and then u had the little block shapes that u had to fit in the right slot for it? well thats how humans are. and some people have the slot, and some other people have the block piece. if u take 2 boxes and put em together or 2 puzzle pieces and put em together.. it doesnt quite work well. or if u want to argue about it (trying to keep it as clean as possible), anal - u take the puzzle piece and try to force it where it doesnt belong.. its extremely unclean and that is also not natural.

so in my eyes. if gay people get rights, cool w/e i dont really care but if they dont, im not going to fight for their rights because they were "born different" thats bull in my eyes. people know right from wrong and natural from not natural.. im sure there are a lot of muslim people that are gay BUT chose to be straight just for their own safety of course but as you can see its not impossible..

so for gay people thinking that people have to appease to them or something, nobody owes them anything because they were born with a biological problem..

i dont believe people should be killed for something that they couldnt control but i dont think they should be treated as we need to wipe their ass either.

Mutation is natural. If there were no Mutations then there would be no humans. So in a way it is natural...

[SidiousX]

imo People choose, they don't born gay.
*sigh at topic and post*

Just ask urself, did u choose to be straight?

[Strwarrior]

imo People choose, they don't born gay.
*sigh at topic and post*

Just ask urself, did u choose to be straight?

Best Reply

[Puma60]

KILLED?!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't kill him (YES WE!), in fact, there is rarely any gays in the Muslim world

There are probably as many gays in the Muslim race as there are in other less homophobic countries, but as JuelzSantana said, they hide it for their own safety.

The people who are arguing that people CHOOSE to be gay, thats absolutely ridiculous, whether they are born with it or it is determined through childhood, the bottom line is it is not their choice, they cannot do anything about it. Why should gays be shunned from their religion for something they can't help? Almost every other religon has modernised and started accepting gays, but why not the Muslim religion?

Also im still waiting for a Muslim to explain why (some of) their race hate gays so much so that they are shunned from society. As I said in the topic starter, its as bad as the hatred against Blacks in the 1960's, judging someone on something that can't be helped. In this day and age, this kind of predjudice should not be happening, but a religion that is all about equality is promoting it.

[Barotix]

People are confusing behavior with biological predisposition.

[SM-Count]

Lets stop worrying about how/why somebody becomes gay, and how we can start taking care of the Muslims, who apparently have a worse disorder than homosexuality. Religion is the oldest way to control people, I think it has long out served its purpose. I understand we're all human, and don't always agree, and get along. But religion seems to make people think very primitavely. DADAADADAA THEY NO BELIEVE IN ME GOD ME BLOW THEM UP DADADADADA. Enough of it, either in 1000 years, everybody is going to be a Muslim, or nobody is going to be religious.

say something stupid like this again and it will be the last thing you say.

I don't see how what he said was stupid? SM-Count claims that people choose to be gay, and that statement is like much worse than stupid, it's a retarded and ignorant homophobic statement. Gosh, if only people would have a brain. Speaking for myself and my many gay friends, being gay is NOT a choice. I don't know why SM-Count is so stubborn and shit.

On Topic:
This was on the news a few days ago http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/ ... newssearch

If you read anything I've wrote, which you didn't, you'll know that I'm saying more than biology determines whether or not someone will become gay. You just naturally assume the argument against 'people are born gay' is 'people choose to be gay' and therefore my argument is people choose to be gay, but, I attribute this to your severe retardation so I won't take offense to anything you said.

@Xem
I think I'm understanding where there's been a misunderstanding, I'm not saying homosexuality is necessarily a choice (although there are good arguments for it, the evidence is also nonexistent) rather the statement 'you're born gay' is ignorant and has no evidence, i.e. there's no evidence supporting biology is solely responsible for someone ending up gay or straight. The ever popular, and very, very plausible sounding, predisposition (i.e. you are susceptible by your biology to become gay and if the environment or social interactions are neutral then you become gay, however if they push hard enough for you to be straight then you become straight despite the predisposition. Or, in your words, a combination of random biological, environmental, and social factors that push a biologically favored person to become gay) also has no good evidence supporting it, as good as it sounds. Of course, this is a theory and as to what those env/soc forces are I'm really not sure, but as far as evidence goes, it is the same as a pure bio theory on homo.

I agree it's not a choice, I don't agree on stating it's only biologically determined when there's no evidence for it proving causation.

[Strwarrior]

@ Puma, its not Muslim religion, its the countries maybe.. some countries may do it, and almost ALL of the arabian countries doesnt follow the Muslim religion rules.. they just made new rules for their selves, and they dont follow the Muslim religion rules.

Muslim religion learn the people who follow it to be merciful, i 100% sure they dont kill gays, or even get them shunned, its the country for sure, any country would follow Muslim religion will never ever do that.


i say:
Muslim religion Learn the people who follow it to be merciful, not killers.

[Doppleganger]

Strwarrior,
I want to be clear that i do not respect your beliefs. "Islam is a peaceful religion" that is a lie and its outrageous that you says it is. Homosexuality has the death penalty in five Muslim nations Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen. Your high clerics want gays to be killed. Your here saying it doesn't. The gays in the middle east are hiding for there lives. There is no winning with you people tho. You have the faith card. I can shove facts up your ass and down your throat and at the end of the day you'll just crap it out and then the circus starts all over again. All religions brainwash kids and tell them all lies and to scare them, to put fear into them, Telling them they will burn in hell if they do not follow these beliefs. You still suppress your women. If a Muslims want to stop being Muslim the penalty is death. Your religion wants to stop this very conversation from happening. A few months ago they tried to get a law passed in the UN that stopped people from criticizing religion all together. You still stone people to death for things that aren't even a crime. REAL education is scarce in those Muslim countries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpGPZMpzKE
After watching that report who knows which way the "new generation" will go.

Code: Select all
ppff ridiculous.

I don't want to leave you thinking i only hate Muslims. I do not like any religion. Religion downplays all we have accomplished as humans. It puts fear into you. It divides us. It tell you how to think. Its holding us back to what we are really capable of. I can go on and on.
"Evil comes disguised" and its Religion.

@ Puma, its not Muslim religion, its the countries maybe.. some countries may do it, and almost ALL of the arabian countries doesnt follow the Muslim religion rules.. they just made new rules for their selves, and they dont follow the Muslim religion rules.

Muslim religion learn the people who follow it to be merciful, i 100% sure they dont kill gays, or even get them shunned, its the country for sure, any country would follow Muslim religion will never ever do that.


i say:
[i]Muslim religion Learn the people who follow it to be merciful, not killers.

Here you are putting the blame on something else rather than the actual problem. ok so lets say the people are following the Muslim Religion. Then the countries change the rules. Why don't the people see this and say " Hey that's not what is taught and would reject what the countries try to enforce? Why are they just going with it then? There not rising up and saying its wrong because its in the religion itself. You say you are so merciful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
Do you not remember that? All that crap over a damn cartoon. A CARTOON.

[Strwarrior]

Give me a proof that Muslim religion say that gays must be killed.
thats all lies, i highly doubt any real muslim would say that,

and about that guy called ahmadinajad, that guy have another beliefs, he is from "Sheeaa" or something like that, every year they have a day they hit themselves for a stupid reason.. they do alot different things..

Give me a REAL MUSLIM saying that.. That man is just another person who made rules and he doesnt follow muslims rules..

rules are rules, they didnt "like" it, so they didnt follow it all, they just followed what they "like". follow all or leave all.

and about killing gays in that countries, thats all fakes, as i said, thats not from the Muslim Religion, and i really doubt that its even true.

now get me a proof that Muslim Religion SAYS: "KILL GAYS" . or dont even post, ur post is just useless.

and about the site? its not a joke to make "Cartoons" about Muhammad, They were joking and saying like "haha look this is muhammad, lool wtf"
if any1 have faith, he will reject that.
That was Provocation for any muslim.

[inky]

Since I just got home from work and I'm too tired to read most of the replies posted (since I'm sure we've all seen the same arguments in the past), I'll just go post my 2 cents based on what I managed to read and absorb while scrolling down:

First of all, everyone in this thread is riding the same bus which will eventually hit a solid brick wall. But at least it's a fun ride.

Second, although I'm an atheist and I believe that religion is nothing more than a tool created by people in order to serve their own purposes (good and bad), I really don't think that it's fair for people to generalize a certain group based on the actions of some people. Even though a lot of the things written in these so-called "Holy Books" promote things such as misogyny, homophobia, child abuse, murder/genocide, slavery, hatred against people with disabilities, and even pedophilia, you can't just accuse people of interpreting it that way - some people use it as a guide to better themselves or to comfort themselves in the event of a death in the family. Like I said, religion is a tool; think of it as a hammer - you can use a hammer to help build a house for a family to live in, but you can also use it to kill a person. Not everyone's a religious fanatic. (PS. Our interpretation of what a "REAL" Christian/Muslim/Jew is like is nothing more than an opinion we base on our own beliefs. And yes, there are Muslims who say that gays should be killed, such as the death squads in Iraq [go read UN reports], but there are also Muslims who believe that homosexuality should be tolerated)

Third, being gay is not a choice. I mean, I do respect your opinion - because it is an opinion no matter how ignorant it may be. There are several factors which affects a person's way of thinking and gender orientation - both physical and psychological. Do I believe that people are "born gay"? Not entirely - but I do believe that there are certain physical (talking about brain structure/receptors and chemical composition) aspects which predisposes them to developing their homosexuality, but I also think that their experiences and interaction with their environment (especially the social aspect) plays a huge role in it. I'm simply taking in the facts and forming my opinion based on them - therefore I can't declare something with absolute certainty but I can weed off the claims which simply makes no sense.

/rant

I'm going to sleep.

[Strwarrior]

@inky, Good night ,


anyways, i really doubt any real muslim would say kill gays, thats just really stupid, Muhammad himself said "There is No difference between Black Person and White Person" (in that times black people were just slaves, they were like tools for white people), so how u think some1 like him would tell us to kill gays? or why god give a mom a gay son? to get killed?

[inky]

@inky, Good night ,


anyways, i really doubt any real muslim would say kill gays, thats just really stupid, Muhammad himself said "There is No difference between Black Person and White Person" (in that times black people were just slaves, they were like tools for white people), so how u think some1 like him would tell us to kill gays? or why god give a mom a gay son? to get killed?

Thanks. It's 10AM here atm lol.

Last comment:
That word is what separates extremists and fanatics from the peaceful ones. Their interpretation of what "real Muslim" means is different. Btw, extremist Muslims have and are still killing gay people. Read the reports regarding the anti-gay death squads organized by Muslim religious fanatics. There's always people like those in almost every religion though.

[Doppleganger]

Give me a proof that Muslim religion say that gays must be killed.
thats all lies, i highly doubt any real muslim would say that,

and about that guy called ahmadinajad, that guy have another beliefs, he is from "Sheeaa" or something like that, every year they have a day they hit themselves for a stupid reason.. they do alot different things..

Give me a REAL MUSLIM saying that.. That man is just another person who made rules and he doesnt follow muslims rules..

rules are rules, they didnt "like" it, so they didnt follow it all, they just followed what they "like". follow all or leave all.

and about killing gays in that countries, thats all fakes, as i said, thats not from the Muslim Religion, and i really doubt that its even true.

now get me a proof that Muslim Religion SAYS: "KILL GAYS" . or dont even post, ur post is just useless.

and about the site? its not a joke to make "Cartoons" about Muhammad, They were joking and saying like "haha look this is muhammad, lool wtf"
if any1 have faith, he will reject that.
That was Provocation for any muslim.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Even when i post the facts you are still going to deny them I guarantee it.

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 4:16)"

Punishment is death.
Notice how it doesn't say anything about women being gay. I'll put my money on "Because the guys who wrote it liked girl on girl action"
What Muslims focus on is the first part in bold. The Religion isn't merciful it is suppressing gay people and putting the fear of punishment into them. Even if they "repent and amend" they will never be left alone. They are going to be harassed and beaten up until they die.
Why punish them at all? Why punish them for being who they are?
In each religious book there are countless passages that contradict themselves. This lets people pick and choose what they want to believe.