History of the USA

[Shadow]

We wanted to see Afghanistan liberated and united, not destroyed by in-fighting and extremism. For that, we're still there today working on what's left.

I'd rather they acted with good intent than not act at all. If they hadn't, Afghanistan would be just another part of the Soviet Union, with front door access to the middle east's resources, and we would probably still be stuck in a cold war.

Is that really what they told you at school? Did you make that up yourself? The US aided the rebels before the soviet invasion, and executed propaganda campaigns in Afganistan. Wanted to see Afghanistan liberated and united? More like to lure the soviets into the trap that was Afghanistan and not give a shit about the afghan people.

[Reise]

Is that really what they told you at school? Did you make that up yourself?

I could ask you the same questions.

I'm done here, we can argue night and day until we die of old age about the morality behind all the "bad" things that go on in the world. At the end of the day nobody really gives a crap.

[XemnasXD]

i give a crap...alot of people give a crap...

[Reise]

Well I don't lol.

I still get my television and my all season radials. Life is good.

[Shadow]

Xem is going to need someone else to debate with now that Ganji has disappeared from the discussion and Reise no longer gives a crap.
Well, been interesting to see a serious and relatively civilized thread here (even though it all started from a joke video.)

[Mr.Ganji]

EL OH F*CKING EL. You really don't get it do you. Name three countries where armed conflict took place during the cold war that is now first world. Name five countries where armed conflict took place that hasn't experienced some type of armed conflict in the past two decades. You realize that vietnam, korea, afganistan, iraq, iran etc...these are all countries we "helped" during the cold war and to this day they still suck ass. That is the American arrogance and ignorance im talking about. Saved the world from what, from who. Whats the difference between the US bombing for you 30 years or the soviets bombing you for 30 years. We didn't avert a nuclear war! We were one of two countries with nukes and the only one who has used one so far. We created the nuclear age and were the first country to show that if when we felt threatened by military power we would use it. No other country has ever made that claim and followed through with it. Going with just the facts we were more likely to launch nuclear missiles at the USSR than the USSR was to launch missles at us. For some reason though you just ignore that, ignore the proxy wars, ignore the countries still at war, ignore the millions of lives lost and just say they're better off. GO TO THOSE COUNTRIES. Stay awhile and listen then you come back and tell me they're doing fine...

You do realize that American assistance does, by no means, does NOT guarantee freedom or economic and political stability. We did our best to help every Cold War front nation and to prevent communist takeover. And we succeeded, in our main objective - CONTAINMENT. Communism is no longer a threat to the world. The countries you’ve named have lived shitty lives and still live shitty live, but that’s not our fault. There are other social and economic factors that we could not control and as a result, many previous Cold War battleground nations have turned out to stay on the bottom of the economic ladder. Utilizing American aid to defend and rebuild their countries as South Korea has done, proves that American intervention is almost always a positive catalyst. The lack of appreciation of American help, jealousy of American prosperity, and the beef that they have with our unconditional support of Israel are all things that were beyond our control, still are, and are the main reasons why the countries you named are leading poor lives. Pinning the blame on America for the cause of Middle Eastern destitution is not fair or right.

We saved the world from Hitler. We saved the world from communism. We saved the world from a nuclear disaster. Nuking Japan was justifiable – beyond that, we have never used nukes.

You forget Andrew Jackson who ordered genocide. Kennedy who staged coups that led to the Vietnam War. Nixon who ordered the assassination of democratically elected leaders. The Japanese interment camps during WWII. The protest of Vietnam where american soldier shot and killed americans on american soil(kinda like the iraq election protest). Bush who declared and waged an illegal war without the consent of congress(the people) and without proper cause(he knew there were no weapons, was told many times) violating all sorts of international law resulting in the deaths of millions of iraqis and thousands of US troops. This is just a brief history btw, the actions of US leaders are no better or worse than the actions of the leaders you mentioned. So Bin Laden bombed 2 buildings, Bill Clinton ordered 24/7 bombing on a nation, civilian casualites were far greater than ours. Your problem is that you see every act of violence we do as a force of good when in reality its simply an act of violence. We're not a leader, we are a bully who has shown time and time again that we will go to any lengths no matter the casualties to stay on top. We're not building a pyramid out of people, we're clawing over the pile of their dead bodies to sit at the peak...

Its not about the past 8 years. Me and barotix are not stupid. YOU are only seeing the past 8 years. YOU are seeing them as the only smear on a hall of fame wall. YOU need to open your eyes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum08062009.html

As the author says many of those ppl we killed and gov'ts we overthrew were democratically elected. The people voted for these leaders and the US did not not like them so we killed them. How is that policing the world. What would you think if the US denied the man you voted into the senate because they didn't like him. What would you say if a country assassinated Bush because he did not suit their interest. You lead by example and this is the example we have been setting. Its not a recent thing this corruption and repugnance. Like i said before its systematic. We do what we want because we can. These assassinations did not help those countries at all, many of them went through decades of war and harsh dictatorships that WE installed. Many of them are still going through war and are under the harsh rule of Warlords that WE armed. It couldn't worse for them. It was the kind of gov't where if you spoke out you disappeared in the night or family and friends were killed. How was good for them. How is that any better than being under soviet influence.

We know our history Ganji, all the good and all the bad. If a child molester raped and killed 18 kids and then rescues a woman from a fire do you suddenly act like he's not a child molester. Do you forgive him for his crimes (which he is not sorry for and would do again) even if he saved 18 women from fires. It does not balance out. I, like the video am just speaking the truth. And just like the video, because its so ugly you can't stand to hear it. For every country that models themselves after us, there are two more than were thrown into turmoil because of us. For every life we have there are 10 more lives who have been made miserable by our actions. This isn't politics Ganji its HISTORY. This isn't about liberal or conservative, democrat or republican this is just the truth. The ugly truth and theres no getting around it, you can't wash away the blood by pointing to something else, stop trying.


Power and military might doesn't make you a leader. It just makes you the guy with the biggest guns. We are so far from perfection its not even funny. Our gov't is corrupt beyond belief, our military is stretched too thin all over the world trying to police all the enemies we've made, our economy and industry is a shell of its former self, our people are statistically unhealthy and uneducated, we are one of the leading polluters in the word...

What about us is close to perfection. I can name 10 countries that are healthier, more satisfied with their gov't, more educated, have better environmental care, and are more economically sound on average than us. Japan, Sweden, Singapore, New Zealand, Germany, Norway, South Korea, Switzerland, Chile, and Hong Kong. The age of US supremacy is over, we are holding on with our military might alone. Other than that we have nothing on these places. The "burden of international leadership." Really. The first thing that came to mind was "The White Mans Burden" the idea that the world was a savage place and only white people had the right idea how to run things and that it their duty to show the world just how wrong they were even if it meant killing or slavery, it was just something they had to do no matter how unpleasant. Don't get me wrong we've come a long way from then in most areas but its the same ignorant arrogance now applied to a country instead of a race. It wasn't true before and its not true now. No one wants us to be international leaders, we're forcing ourselves down their throats, choking them, then saying its for their own good.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No one nation should be waving around a big stick over all the other nations. Thats not freedom, its oppression. Your question is really asking would you rather have our oppression or someone elses and while to you our oppression may be great to the people in Iraq that were killed by the Saddam regime we supported and helped to power, they don't think its so good. Oppression should not exist in any form it just represses and we see the results today. NK has nuclear weapons, Iraq may be trying to get them, Terrorist in Pakistan are about to control a nation who has them. These are not isolated incident, these are the effects of the things we have caused. Learn from your mistakes and stop trying to hold a cock waving contest with the rest of the world, that attitude is what started all this and its not going to solve it.

I’m not going to respond word for word, point for point. Because I’ve read the whole thing, and its just you screaming and pointing out all the mistakes we as a nation have committed. I have no ready response to a tirade.

Our role in world affairs has always, ALWAYS put one thing before everything else when it comes to using political and military leverage – democracy. We did our best to defend and preserve it. I guess its your interpretation to whether we failed in it or not. You believe we failed. I don’t.

If you think we really farked this world up, fine. To you, America will always be the tyrant, and although I do acknowledge shady parts of our history, America will always have a more positive meaning to me than you ever will.

[XemnasXD]

forgive me ganji but i read none of that and have no intention to

i've said what i had to say multiple times over this topic is too heavy...perhaps another day

[SidiousX]

..... USA

lulz.

Maybe i need to read this entire thread sometime if some say its funny.

[Shadow]

We saved the world from Hitler. We saved the world from communism. We saved the world from a nuclear disaster. Nuking Japan was justifiable – beyond that, we have never used nukes.

Do they teach history like that in the States? Take no offence, I am just curious; I even heard that in the states there are schools in which they teach in geography classes that God created Earth! I wouldn't be surprised since the education system is a fitting target for propaganda and countries tend to make things seem favorable to them. I think Yeltsin once claimed that they didn't start the Winter War. So, yeah... Probably they taught that in schools too in Russia.

Ah, a little thing I can't help mentioning from your slightly delusional, propaganda-smelling, patriotism-dripping text. You say it is justifiable to slaughter over 200 000 civilians; even children and women to save your country's military troops? If we two had a fight, then it be justifiable for me to start killing off your friends and relatives until you'd back down and thus save me from possible death or injuries?

[Casawi]

EL OH F*CKING EL. You really don't get it do you. Name three countries where armed conflict took place during the cold war that is now first world. Name five countries where armed conflict took place that hasn't experienced some type of armed conflict in the past two decades. You realize that vietnam, korea, afganistan, iraq, iran etc...these are all countries we "helped" during the cold war and to this day they still suck ass. That is the American arrogance and ignorance im talking about. Saved the world from what, from who. Whats the difference between the US bombing for you 30 years or the soviets bombing you for 30 years. We didn't avert a nuclear war! We were one of two countries with nukes and the only one who has used one so far. We created the nuclear age and were the first country to show that if when we felt threatened by military power we would use it. No other country has ever made that claim and followed through with it. Going with just the facts we were more likely to launch nuclear missiles at the USSR than the USSR was to launch missles at us. For some reason though you just ignore that, ignore the proxy wars, ignore the countries still at war, ignore the millions of lives lost and just say they're better off. GO TO THOSE COUNTRIES. Stay awhile and listen then you come back and tell me they're doing fine...

You do realize that American assistance does, by no means, does NOT guarantee freedom or economic and political stability. We did our best to help every Cold War front nation and to prevent communist takeover. And we succeeded, in our main objective - CONTAINMENT. Communism is no longer a threat to the world. The countries you’ve named have lived shitty lives and still live shitty live, but that’s not our fault. There are other social and economic factors that we could not control and as a result, many previous Cold War battleground nations have turned out to stay on the bottom of the economic ladder. Utilizing American aid to defend and rebuild their countries as South Korea has done, proves that American intervention is almost always a positive catalyst. The lack of appreciation of American help, jealousy of American prosperity, and the beef that they have with our unconditional support of Israel are all things that were beyond our control, still are, and are the main reasons why the countries you named are leading poor lives. Pinning the blame on America for the cause of Middle Eastern destitution is not fair or right.

We saved the world from Hitler. We saved the world from communism. We saved the world from a nuclear disaster. Nuking Japan was justifiable – beyond that, we have never used nukes.

You forget Andrew Jackson who ordered genocide. Kennedy who staged coups that led to the Vietnam War. Nixon who ordered the assassination of democratically elected leaders. The Japanese interment camps during WWII. The protest of Vietnam where american soldier shot and killed americans on american soil(kinda like the iraq election protest). Bush who declared and waged an illegal war without the consent of congress(the people) and without proper cause(he knew there were no weapons, was told many times) violating all sorts of international law resulting in the deaths of millions of iraqis and thousands of US troops. This is just a brief history btw, the actions of US leaders are no better or worse than the actions of the leaders you mentioned. So Bin Laden bombed 2 buildings, Bill Clinton ordered 24/7 bombing on a nation, civilian casualites were far greater than ours. Your problem is that you see every act of violence we do as a force of good when in reality its simply an act of violence. We're not a leader, we are a bully who has shown time and time again that we will go to any lengths no matter the casualties to stay on top. We're not building a pyramid out of people, we're clawing over the pile of their dead bodies to sit at the peak...

Its not about the past 8 years. Me and barotix are not stupid. YOU are only seeing the past 8 years. YOU are seeing them as the only smear on a hall of fame wall. YOU need to open your eyes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum08062009.html

As the author says many of those ppl we killed and gov'ts we overthrew were democratically elected. The people voted for these leaders and the US did not not like them so we killed them. How is that policing the world. What would you think if the US denied the man you voted into the senate because they didn't like him. What would you say if a country assassinated Bush because he did not suit their interest. You lead by example and this is the example we have been setting. Its not a recent thing this corruption and repugnance. Like i said before its systematic. We do what we want because we can. These assassinations did not help those countries at all, many of them went through decades of war and harsh dictatorships that WE installed. Many of them are still going through war and are under the harsh rule of Warlords that WE armed. It couldn't worse for them. It was the kind of gov't where if you spoke out you disappeared in the night or family and friends were killed. How was good for them. How is that any better than being under soviet influence.

We know our history Ganji, all the good and all the bad. If a child molester raped and killed 18 kids and then rescues a woman from a fire do you suddenly act like he's not a child molester. Do you forgive him for his crimes (which he is not sorry for and would do again) even if he saved 18 women from fires. It does not balance out. I, like the video am just speaking the truth. And just like the video, because its so ugly you can't stand to hear it. For every country that models themselves after us, there are two more than were thrown into turmoil because of us. For every life we have there are 10 more lives who have been made miserable by our actions. This isn't politics Ganji its HISTORY. This isn't about liberal or conservative, democrat or republican this is just the truth. The ugly truth and theres no getting around it, you can't wash away the blood by pointing to something else, stop trying.


Power and military might doesn't make you a leader. It just makes you the guy with the biggest guns. We are so far from perfection its not even funny. Our gov't is corrupt beyond belief, our military is stretched too thin all over the world trying to police all the enemies we've made, our economy and industry is a shell of its former self, our people are statistically unhealthy and uneducated, we are one of the leading polluters in the word...

What about us is close to perfection. I can name 10 countries that are healthier, more satisfied with their gov't, more educated, have better environmental care, and are more economically sound on average than us. Japan, Sweden, Singapore, New Zealand, Germany, Norway, South Korea, Switzerland, Chile, and Hong Kong. The age of US supremacy is over, we are holding on with our military might alone. Other than that we have nothing on these places. The "burden of international leadership." Really. The first thing that came to mind was "The White Mans Burden" the idea that the world was a savage place and only white people had the right idea how to run things and that it their duty to show the world just how wrong they were even if it meant killing or slavery, it was just something they had to do no matter how unpleasant. Don't get me wrong we've come a long way from then in most areas but its the same ignorant arrogance now applied to a country instead of a race. It wasn't true before and its not true now. No one wants us to be international leaders, we're forcing ourselves down their throats, choking them, then saying its for their own good.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No one nation should be waving around a big stick over all the other nations. Thats not freedom, its oppression. Your question is really asking would you rather have our oppression or someone elses and while to you our oppression may be great to the people in Iraq that were killed by the Saddam regime we supported and helped to power, they don't think its so good. Oppression should not exist in any form it just represses and we see the results today. NK has nuclear weapons, Iraq may be trying to get them, Terrorist in Pakistan are about to control a nation who has them. These are not isolated incident, these are the effects of the things we have caused. Learn from your mistakes and stop trying to hold a cock waving contest with the rest of the world, that attitude is what started all this and its not going to solve it.

I’m not going to respond word for word, point for point. Because I’ve read the whole thing, and its just you screaming and pointing out all the mistakes we as a nation have committed. I have no ready response to a tirade.

Our role in world affairs has always, ALWAYS put one thing before everything else when it comes to using political and military leverage – democracy. We did our best to defend and preserve it. I guess its your interpretation to whether we failed in it or not. You believe we failed. I don’t.

If you think we really farked this world up, fine. To you, America will always be the tyrant, and although I do acknowledge shady parts of our history, America will always have a more positive meaning to me than you ever will.

you saved the world from hitler? o really?you mean Soviet union saved the world from hitler? you defeated communism? china is communist lets see who will defeat each other now, you couldnt even defeat NK lol! you save the world from nuclear disaster while you were the first one using nukes on innocents?
justifiable? killing innocents is justifiable for you?
hmm kay....
Youre soooo braindead.
But i know americans are arrogant.
They claim so manythings,while just USSR made them shit their pants forhalf a siecle,they could never touch ussr when ussr kicked their ass in vietnam

[Reise]

No shadow they don't tell us that in school. There's a huge emphasis on "WE" though. As in, without the US it is doubtful the world would have fared well against Nazi Germany. And it's true. Russia turned it around in Stalingrad, the UK held off during the Battle of Britain and Africa, and that's all with the US's aid in the background. Imagine if it wasn't there at all.

The nukes were also 100% avoidable, but Japan decided to call our bluff.

[Dante]

maybe this guy is interesting for some people here.
he is one of the best cabaret artist in germany and this is a part from his programm "Bis neulich" about the USA and terrorism.

don't know if the jokes still work if you can only read the subtitles ^^;
and some won't work if you don't know some german politicans

anyway, have fun

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4H_E8b-qmo
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOZd3iCk ... re=related
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWAyM26 ... re=related
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ9Amuri ... re=related
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ullkbV ... re=related

(i think if you want you will find the next 4 parts )

[Casawi]

No shadow they don't tell us that in school. There's a huge emphasis on "WE" though. As in, without the US it is doubtful the world would have fared well against Nazi Germany. And it's true. Russia turned it around in Stalingrad, the UK held off during the Battle of Britain and Africa, and that's all with the US's aid in the background. Imagine if it wasn't there at all.

The nukes were also 100% avoidable, but Japan decided to call our bluff.

the us was nothing
even japan if they didnt have a dumb emperor they would invaded us if they wanted,germany could of farked up us in matter of months just trow 10 brigades ot tiger tanks and they will conquer whole us with no difficulty.
The soviets made the effort
the us made no effort.
Britain made effort to of bombing the german industry and killing some in hamburg and some in other cities.us made no effort.
they just debarqued they were 50,000soldiers.
170,000 in all from them Britishs & canadians.
they freed france(it took them 3 countries to make france free while soviets defeated germany alone.
The soviet industry would have made it the soviet industry was localised in far east.
They produced 20,000t -34 in the war.
They had a war economical situation only trucks and food from us were used.
without the us.
We would of made it.
The us a country that dosnt even have a history cant save anyone.
Yet they got ass kicked by viets koreans arabs insurgents with Ak-47 & RPG's
and the turning point of ww2 was in stalingrad.
and the us didnt made battle of stalingrad.
Second turning b attle was kursk and last turning battle was some battle in east germany i dont remember the name were they were 100,000 germans vs 2.000.000 soviet soldiers

[Reise]

The Soviet industry was riding on US trucks and trains.

No effort? Lets assume the US cut ties to the UK after Pearl Harbor and never got around to the invasion of France. Lets say we just dealt with our own problems in the Pacific.

So, you can throw out western front pressure on the nazis. Without that, the Soviets would have lost their momentum and been defeated. Human waves can only do you so much good when mister Hitler has his military totally devoted to one front. Also, without the US and the invasion, Germany would have likely staged another bombing run toward the UK, and no doubt would have continued V2 rocket bombings on civilians. The Soviets wouldn't have been able to produce all those tanks and aircraft because they would have to divide resources to produce other necessities like those trucks and trains they would have gotten from US lend-lease. The winter would have ended and Hitler would have been able to roll his panthers on into Moscow after the Soviet push was finally stopped.

[Casawi]

The Soviet industry was riding on US trucks and trains.

No effort? Lets assume the US cut ties to the UK after Pearl Harbor and never got around to the invasion of France. Lets say we just dealt with our own problems in the Pacific.

So, you can throw out western front pressure on the nazis. Without that, the Soviets would have lost their momentum and been defeated. Human waves can only do you so much good when mister Hitler has his military totally devoted to one front. Also, without the US and the invasion, Germany would have likely staged another bombing run toward the UK, and no doubt would have continued V2 rocket bombings on civilians. The Soviets wouldn't have been able to produce all those tanks and aircraft because they would have to divide resources to produce other necessities like those trucks and trains they would have gotten from US lend-lease. The winter would have ended and Hitler would have rolled his panthers on into Moscow.

uh?
in the offensive of germany there were still millions of soviet soldiers left.
us only came in after they saw the soviet progress they were afraid they would take over france and make it part of soviet union . soviet union was already winning in 1944 they removed siege of leningrad they were already in poland in 1944 lol... what have uk to do in western front? who cares about uk? lol the winter would have ended? and hitler attack again?
with what?
Those young 14 year old soldiers that were in berlin in 1945 lol?
your american i understand that.
soviet kicked germany ass.
US have nothing to do with it us was so bothered by japan and yet japanes kicked us ass they could only end the war with a atomic bomb us only took the philipines from japan and other islands of other countries that japan took they never went to japanese territory they knew they would get ass kicked hard.
Also in 1945 after soviets beated germany the us president called soviet help in japan LOL tell me why? cuz americans sucks their soldiers sucks.
Their weapons sucks a sherman can be shot down just with a nade rofl!

[Mr.Ganji]

No shadow they don't tell us that in school. There's a huge emphasis on "WE" though. As in, without the US it is doubtful the world would have fared well against Nazi Germany. And it's true. Russia turned it around in Stalingrad, the UK held off during the Battle of Britain and Africa, and that's all with the US's aid in the background. Imagine if it wasn't there at all.

The nukes were also 100% avoidable, but Japan decided to call our bluff.

No, the nukes were unavoidable. Its a controversy that should have died a looong time ago. America used the nukes with justifiable reason - if its anyone's fault, its Japan's, first for starting a beef with America in the first place and later stubbornly refusing to surrender in face of obvious defeat.

you saved the world from hitler? o really?you mean Soviet union saved the world from hitler? you defeated communism? china is communist lets see who will defeat each other now, you couldnt even defeat NK lol! you save the world from nuclear disaster while you were the first one using nukes on innocents?
justifiable? killing innocents is justifiable for you?
hmm kay....
Youre soooo braindead.
But i know americans are arrogant.
They claim so manythings,while just USSR made them shit their pants forhalf a siecle,they could never touch ussr when ussr kicked their ass in vietnam

I can already summarize your personality with two words - childish and anti-American. I'm not going to take you seriously. You're obviously an over zealous Chinese nationalist who's only wish is to see America die.

I'm not going to take you seriously until you come back literate and until you get your facts straight.

the us was nothing
even japan if they didnt have a dumb emperor they would invaded us if they wanted,germany could of farked up us in matter of months just trow 10 brigades ot tiger tanks and they will conquer whole us with no difficulty.
The soviets made the effort
the us made no effort.
Britain made effort to of bombing the german industry and killing some in hamburg and some in other cities.us made no effort.
they just debarqued they were 50,000soldiers.
170,000 in all from them Britishs & canadians.
they freed france(it took them 3 countries to make france free while soviets defeated germany alone.
The soviet industry would have made it the soviet industry was localised in far east.
They produced 20,000t -34 in the war.
They had a war economical situation only trucks and food from us were used.
without the us.
We would of made it.
The us a country that dosnt even have a history cant save anyone.
Lol. The most classic attack every hater uses. The ridiculous claim that America has no history, no culture.

Next time you eat a burger or slip on those jeans, think about where they came from. Some cultural influences around the world the may be deeper but none is as ubiquitous and appealing as the American one. You may not see sushi in Egypt, but you'll definitely find a coke bottle there.

Yet they got ass kicked by viets koreans arabs insurgents with Ak-47 & RPG's
and the turning point of ww2 was in stalingrad.
and the us didnt made battle of stalingrad.
Second turning b attle was kursk and last turning battle was some battle in east germany i dont remember the name were they were 100,000 germans vs 2.000.000 soviet soldiers

The rest of your post is essentially garbage, so I'm not going to bother writing anything.

[Stephanus]

Omg.... ignorant kids debate WW2(respect for the expections)

*grabs popcorn*
This thread is like a quarrel amongst 4-6 year old infants ^_^
"you did it!"
"no, you did it!"
"my daddy will beat your daddy!"
"no, my daddy is the strongest daddy on earth!"

Keep up the good work kiddos


ps:
you see, its a bit complicated coz most weapon factories(USA) sold tons of equipment to Germany before the beginning of ww2 and blah blah blah...
but i did'nt told you anything, im just a bystander, so continue flaming eachother

ps2:
On second tought:
LEARN HISTORY DAMMIT!!!!! ITS F.CKING EASY FOR ALL OF YOU. YOU GO TO LIBRARY, GRAB A DAMNED HISTORY BOOK AND READ IT.
if you succed to read some books related to economical history during ww2 you can have a real conversation, not just stupid flames

[Casawi]

No shadow they don't tell us that in school. There's a huge emphasis on "WE" though. As in, without the US it is doubtful the world would have fared well against Nazi Germany. And it's true. Russia turned it around in Stalingrad, the UK held off during the Battle of Britain and Africa, and that's all with the US's aid in the background. Imagine if it wasn't there at all.

The nukes were also 100% avoidable, but Japan decided to call our bluff.

No, the nukes were unavoidable. Its a controversy that should have died a looong time ago. America used the nukes with justifiable reason - if its anyone's fault, its Japan's, first for starting a beef with America in the first place and later stubbornly refusing to surrender in face of obvious defeat.

you saved the world from hitler? o really?you mean Soviet union saved the world from hitler? you defeated communism? china is communist lets see who will defeat each other now, you couldnt even defeat NK lol! you save the world from nuclear disaster while you were the first one using nukes on innocents?
justifiable? killing innocents is justifiable for you?
hmm kay....
Youre soooo braindead.
But i know americans are arrogant.
They claim so manythings,while just USSR made them shit their pants forhalf a siecle,they could never touch ussr when ussr kicked their ass in vietnam

I can already summarize your personality with two words - childish and anti-American. I'm not going to take you seriously. You're obviously an over zealous Chinese nationalist who's only wish is to see America die.

I'm not going to take you seriously until you come back literate and until you get your facts straight.

the us was nothing
even japan if they didnt have a dumb emperor they would invaded us if they wanted,germany could of farked up us in matter of months just trow 10 brigades ot tiger tanks and they will conquer whole us with no difficulty.
The soviets made the effort
the us made no effort.
Britain made effort to of bombing the german industry and killing some in hamburg and some in other cities.us made no effort.
they just debarqued they were 50,000soldiers.
170,000 in all from them Britishs & canadians.
they freed france(it took them 3 countries to make france free while soviets defeated germany alone.
The soviet industry would have made it the soviet industry was localised in far east.
They produced 20,000t -34 in the war.
They had a war economical situation only trucks and food from us were used.
without the us.
We would of made it.
The us a country that dosnt even have a history cant save anyone.
Lol. The most classic attack every hater uses. The ridiculous claim that America has no history, no culture.

Next time you eat a burger or slip on those jeans, think about where they came from. Some cultural influences around the world the may be deeper but none is as far reaching and appealing as the American one. You won't see sushi in Egypt, but you'll definitely find a coke bottle there.

Yet they got ass kicked by viets koreans arabs insurgents with Ak-47 & RPG's
and the turning point of ww2 was in stalingrad.
and the us didnt made battle of stalingrad.
Second turning b attle was kursk and last turning battle was some battle in east germany i dont remember the name were they were 100,000 germans vs 2.000.000 soviet soldiers

The rest of your post is essentially garbage, so I'm not going to bother writing anything.

You cant bother to write anything because you know its the truth.
Soviets defeated germany.
Not US.
85% of the german army perished in eastern front.
the rest died of disease or died in italy or greece.
or north africa
us came in afraiding soviets would take over europe.
And thats a fact.
if you would look at your history books in 1944 soviets were in the actualy ukraine and poland.
The war was already clear who would win.
the japaneses kicked your asses,the viets,koreans and many others kicked your asses.
Without france america would never get their independence even tough they were british colons wanting independence LOL who gave you weapon?
france
who gave you resources?
france
and that tiny shit country with no history while china is one of the oldest countries in the world,and the us now depend on us if we dont fund their projects and their economy america would of been dead,we need america only to sell our products.
without that we would of let u die of hunger and long debt

[XemnasXD]

we started beef with japan first ganji....just thought i'd correct you there...not participating in this, just observing...

[Reise]

So Casawi you believe Hitler fought in the west with the volksgrenadiers? Not quite.

hitler attack again?
with what?

A good part of his forces were in the west in the event of an allied invasion, he didn't know when it was coming but with the US in the picture he knew it would eventually. (Unfortunately for him by the time the invasion did come around his tank divisions weren't near France's coast)

What I'm saying is if the US wasn't in the picture, Hitler would have no reason to bolster his forces in the west and could have used them in the east to stop the Soviet advance. Soviet forces would also have been weaker due to the lack of lend-lease and it's possible they wouldn't have even been able to push the Germans back from Stalingrad if at all.

US have nothing to do with it us was so bothered by japan and yet japanes kicked us ass they could only end the war with a atomic bomb

And you're a fool if you believe this. By the time we had the nukes ready we were capable of sending bombing raids straight into Tokyo and had done so already. Japan was done. We offered them the chance to surrender, and you know what happened when they didn't.

Their weapons sucks a sherman can be shot down just with a nade rofl!

You aren't that stupid are you?

we started beef with japan first ganji....just thought i'd correct you there

Ugh.

[Casawi]

So Casawi you believe Hitler fought in the west with the volksgrenadiers? Not quite.

hitler attack again?
with what?

A good part of his forces were in the west in the event of an allied invasion, he didn't know when it was coming but with the US in the picture he knew it would eventually. (Unfortunately for him by the time the invasion did come around his tank divisions weren't near France's coast)

What I'm saying is if the US wasn't in the picture, Hitler would have no reason to bolster his forces in the west and could have used them in the east to stop the Soviet advance. Soviet forces would also have been weaker due to the lack of lend-lease and it's possible they wouldn't have even been able to push the Germans back from Stalingrad if at all.

US have nothing to do with it us was so bothered by japan and yet japanes kicked us ass they could only end the war with a atomic bomb

And you're a fool if you believe this. By the time we had the nukes ready we were capable of sending bombing raids straight into Tokyo and had done so already. Japan was done. We offered them the chance to surrender, and you know what happened when they didn't.

Their weapons sucks a sherman can be shot down just with a nade rofl!

You aren't that stupid are you?

Well,soviets fighted not us they had the balls not us.
Us would come only if they knew soviets would take over europe.
US helped germany if you dont know that.
Soviets helped germany also by making their soldiers train in their territories
soviets would of make it without us help . we would just make a pact with china they send us food we help them against jap aneses later on we already helped them and kicked japaneses ass in 1939
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkhin_Gol
we were able to kick japaneses asses us wasnt.
Japaneses would of never surrender till us run out of soldiers.
Japaneses had lot of conscripts or they would just use chineses

[Mr.Ganji]

we started beef with japan first ganji....just thought i'd correct you there...not participating in this, just observing...

You can't exactly compare an embargo to a full-scale assault on enemy territory. Japan was wrong from the beginning - you can't invade and exploit countries with US interests in them and expect to be left alone. Not to mention commit dirty crimes against humanity in the process.

You cant bother to write anything because you know its the truth.
Soviets defeated germany.
Not US.

So, tell me, you HONESTLY believe that the war could have been won by the Soviet Union alone?

the japaneses kicked your asses,the viets,koreans and many others kicked your asses.

Compare casualties in each conflict America was involved in and say that again.

Without france america would never get their independence even tough they were british colons wanting independence LOL who gave you weapon?
france
who gave you resources?
france

lol

and that tiny shit country with no history while china is one of the oldest countries in the world,

LOL

Boys and girls, today we live in a world where one country is better than another simply because its OLDER. I never knew those two had a correlation. You made my day. Has got to be one of most ridiculous things I've ever heard of.

and the us now depend on us if we dont fund their projects and their economy america would of been dead,we need america only to sell our products.
without that we would of let u die of hunger and long debt

You want America dead really bad, don't you ?

[Casawi]

we started beef with japan first ganji....just thought i'd correct you there...not participating in this, just observing...

You can't exactly compare an embargo to a full-scale assault on enemy territory. Japan was wrong from the beginning - you can't invade and exploit countries with US interests in them and expect to be left alone. Not to mention commit dirty crimes against humanity in the process.

You cant bother to write anything because you know its the truth.
Soviets defeated germany.
Not US.

So, tell me, you HONESTLY believe that the war could have been won by the Soviet Union alone?

the japaneses kicked your asses,the viets,koreans and many others kicked your asses.

Compare casualties in each conflict America was involved in and say that again.

Without france america would never get their independence even tough they were british colons wanting independence LOL who gave you weapon?
france
who gave you resources?
france

lol

and that tiny shit country with no history while china is one of the oldest countries in the world,

LOL

Boys and girls, today we live in a world where one country is better than another simply because its OLDER. I never knew those two had a correlation. You made my day. Has got to be one of most ridiculous things I've ever heard of.

and the us now depend on us if we dont fund their projects and their economy america would of been dead,we need america only to sell our products.
without that we would of let u die of hunger and long debt

You want America dead really bad, don't you ?

Chinese economy is stronger than american economy and america dosnt even have a economy anymore....
remember Britain influenced on other countries because they were a economic power i can compare the normandie invasion where 50,000 soldiers died against 25,000 germans LOL! not taking dday were there were lot of american dead ppl .
I Want america to be dead yes we dont need them anymore we can depend on europe and they buy our products exept the american ones,
being older and having a strong history makes a country powerfull.
we arent what we are now without history.

[Reise]

50,000 soldiers died against 25,000 germans LOL!

Clearly you never heard of the ass kicking Russia received in the Winter War against Finland.

[Casawi]

50,000 soldiers died against 25,000 germans LOL!

Clearly you never heard of the ass kicking Russia received in the Winter War against Finland.

who cares about finland? soviets defeated number one military in the world so whos the **** care about finland? they also conquered finland later on so whos the **** cares,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg%E2% ... _Offensive

[XemnasXD]

You can't exactly compare an embargo to a full-scale assault on enemy territory. Japan was wrong from the beginning - you can't invade and exploit countries with US interests in them and expect to be left alone. Not to mention commit dirty crimes against humanity in the process.

If there is a war going on and country is claiming to be neutral that country shouldn't blockade and harass another countries ships. Thats not neutral. "US interest" is a vague and meaningless term, the US is interested in alot of things so did the Japanese. We also committed war crimes as well. Historians agree that the US aggravated Japan into an all out attack to enter the war then did nothing even as they were warned several times that the Japanese were approaching. We were asking for and wanted pearl harbor as an excuse to persuade the american people to enter the war. Japan didn't engage us without provocation...

[Reise]

Xem you do know that Japan was screwing with China before any of that, right?

Of course you do. Now why do you think blockading them after that crap is "provocation"? They didn't like it and were so full of themselves and their new glorious "empire" they figured they could go and knock out what they thought was the whole US Navy for it.

I might agree we knew the attack would be coming, but don't go and assume we went and blockaded a "neutral" nation who just got done raping and burning cities in China just to harass and provoke them into war.

[Stephanus]

*****


Well,soviets fighted not us they had the balls not us.

Spoiler!

they were forced to fight coz if they would'nt, Stalin killed their family, just check it

Us would come only if they knew soviets would take over europe.

Spoiler!

true, they didnt wanted to sacrifice too many troops, they let the russians do the dirty work

US helped germany if you dont know that.

Spoiler!

and sold weapons to russia/uk too... american weapon factories made the BIGGEST profit during WW2, you know

Soviets helped germany also by making their soldiers train in their territories

Spoiler!

also they were allies at the early stage of ww2 so they could occupy Poland in 3 days. Also with the consent of Russia germans made the first ghettos around warshaw and stuff, and UK and USA did nothing

soviets would of make it without us help.

Spoiler!

no, they would'nt. For example, T34 tanks were powered with motors made in USA, also these motors were made from aluminium -> russians didnt had any technology for that, just go and read some books about this

we would just make a pact with china they send us food we help them against japaneses later on we already helped them and kicked japaneses ass in 1939
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkhin_Gol
we were able to kick japaneses asses us wasnt.

Spoiler!

USA occupied, defeated, annihilated the 80% of japanese fleet while their reserve troops ravaged/pillaged China. If Japan wouldnt attacked USA, Russia and China were annihilated... indeed, Japan made a big favor to all of us with Pearl Harbor.

Japaneses would of never surrender till us run out of soldiers.

Spoiler!

yes they did it coz USA destroyed their cities with single bomb drops, leaving behind nothing but ash and cancer and you know what? This was a more human way than invading Japan directly, coz the estimated casualities were around 1.5million ppl... at the side of USA, with Nagasaki and Hiroshima "only" 200-350k ppl died... "only"

Japaneses had lot of conscripts or they would just use chineses

See the bigger picture.

ps: Reise is right.
Many date the beginning of ww2 with the Japan-Chinese war.

ps2: damn typos

[XemnasXD]

Xem you do know that Japan was screwing with China before any of that, right?

Of course you do. Now why do you think blockading them after that crap is "provocation"? They didn't like it and were so full of themselves and their new glorious "empire" they figured they could go and knock out what they thought was the whole US Navy for it.

I might agree we knew the attack would be coming, but don't go and assume we went and blockaded a "neutral" nation who just got done raping and burning cities in China just to harass and provoke them into war.

i was referring to us as the neutral nation following the USs foreign policy and opinion on the war prior to Pearl Harbor. We were saying we were neutral but our actions told the Japanese otherwise...

[Casawi]

*****


Well,soviets fighted not us they had the balls not us.

Spoiler!

they were forced to fight coz if they would'nt, Stalin killed their family, just check it

Us would come only if they knew soviets would take over europe.

Spoiler!

true, they didnt wanted to sacrifice too many troops, they let the russians do the dirty work

US helped germany if you dont know that.

Spoiler!

and sold weapons to russia/uk too... american weapon factories made the BIGGEST profit during WW2, you know

Soviets helped germany also by making their soldiers train in their territories

Spoiler!

also they were allies at the early stage of ww2 so they could occupy Poland in 3 days. Also with the consent of Russia germans made the first ghettos around warshaw and stuff, and UK and USA did nothing

soviets would of make it without us help.

Spoiler!

no, they would'nt. For example, T34 tanks were powered with motors made in USA, also these motors were made from aluminium -> russians didnt had any technology for that, just go and read some books about this

we would just make a pact with china they send us food we help them against japaneses later on we already helped them and kicked japaneses ass in 1939
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkhin_Gol
we were able to kick japaneses asses us wasnt.

Spoiler!

USA occupied, defeated, annihilated the 80% of japanese fleet while their reserve troops ravaged/pillaged China if japan didnt attaceked USA, Russia and China were annihilated... ineed, Japan made a big favor to all of us with Pearl Harbor.

Japaneses would of never surrender till us run out of soldiers.

Spoiler!

yes they did it coz USA destroyed their cities with single bomb drops, leaving behind nothing but ash and cancer

Japaneses had lot of conscripts or they would just use chineses

See the bigger picture.

ps: Reise is right.
Many date the beginning of ww2 with the Japan-Chinese war.

stephanus i dont agree with you on the last ting.
after the battle in 1939 japaneses never touched soviets again.
They were provoking us to see how we will answer.
in 1942 while america wasnt fully at war with japan
soviet spies told stalin japan wouldnt attack so he sent zukhov to stalingrad with 5million of troops from siberian divisions