Question for all those "legits" out there *Poll added*

[PR0METHEUS]

@ Prometh, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If they were truly AGAINST bots, they would be putting more effort. They are just trying to put up a front to trick newbies into thinking this game is ran in a good manner. Sure they said that 3rd party programs are illegal in their TOS, but who says they follow it. I remember them saying at one point that they would actively pursue cheaters and either ban them for a short time or perm when discovered. I also remember GM running around and PMing ppl to see if they actually bot.

You can stay in your happy bubbles and think that all botters are duck-Farking assholes and JM will one day save you, or you can realize that they are now part of the community.

They ARE truely against bots, just maybe not in the way you would like them to be, or they don't handle the situation as well as we might like. A few years ago, yes, GMs came in-game and PMed botters to find out if they bot or not. Often times, what a joke that was. I've seen screenshots of botters getting those PMs from a GM all while their bot was posting notices on their screen, and they tell the GM 'no, I'm not botting'. 'ok, enjoy the game sir.'

I'm not surprised GMs don't show themselves much anymore in iSRO. There for a while, when they did, the entire server would crowd around the GM and follow him or her everywhere. If they were out of the safe zone, sometimes people would attempt to murder the GM. Perhaps if we as a community showed them a little more respect - at least to the point of letting them do their jobs when they DO show up - maybe they'd be more willing to do so.

Perhaps instead of having GMs come on and actively ban bots on sight (because of the treatment the GMs receive from the community maybe?) perhaps Joymax is instead trying to rely on automated ways to ban the bots. Their automated detection apparently works, to a point, since it identifies some bots. Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well as we'd like.

I've said many times before, and I'll say again. The GMs NEED to come in the game and actively throw the banhammer down on these bots. They need to be in the game to enforce the rules, see how the real players are experiencing the game... If they do that though, the community needs to stay away and let them do their jobs.

This wouldn't happen of course if JM simply actually banned botters.

We need more than that. Joymax needs to ban more, yes, but the community needs to stop cheating so much.

A bouncer at a club needs to do his job to keep people out who don't belong. That bouncer's job becomes MUCH harder if 2,000 people who don't belong in the club try to hammer their way through the door at the same time.

[NuclearSilo]

When it's the fault of both part, JM and bots, in order to resolve the problem, you need to solve together. JM have made their first step is to ban some bots. What about the bots, what moves they made? Nothing.

[TheDrop]

SRO can be related to baseball.
Baseball = sucks. Sro = sucks. Baseball = SRO. There iz a relationz!

Just my opinion on baseball

[blackfalcon]

SRO can be related to baseball.
Baseball = sucks. Sro = sucks. Baseball = SRO. There iz a relationz!

Just my opinion on baseball

lol.

Baseball is a game. They take cheating seriously. So is football, hockey, basket ball, checkers, chess, poker, and a thousand other games. They all take cheating seriously and you would not want someone cheating on you there. You are just being a hypocrite so STFU. Just a game is not an excuse. Please quit crying.

ya baseball and all that other shit is a game too, but u also get something for being good at them. what do u get when u are capped in sro? knowing u spent the last 2 years of your life in front of your comp all day just to smash a bunch of buttons on your keyboard and say "omg i pwned you n000b!!!"? and, how do u cheat at baseball or other sports? theres no cheat codes for sports, your either good or your not.

[Goseki]

Finally some good posts that are on topic and don't involve flaming! YAY

Well, I do remember the murder the GM now games, but I was surprised they didn't do anything. I figured they could spam auto-DC for anyone who dared attacked them. It would be nice if JM combined servers and made GM smart people that actually had a brain and knew about bots. That would probably help them from looking stupid like wearing ox33 shirts and being made fools of by botters.

Why would bots help solve the problem... they were the cause of the problem... Now if JM took a more active stance and banned all of them, than there would no longer be a problem now would there. Well i'm sure more shit would come up, but that's for the future.

[NuclearSilo]

Why would bots help solve the problem... they were the cause of the problem... Now if JM took a more active stance and banned all of them, than there would no longer be a problem now would there. Well i'm sure more shit would come up, but that's for the future.

Wooooooot, after a long distance, you went back to 0. Yes, "bots are the cause the problem". Now stop bullshitting and tell your friends to stop causing problems.

[Goseki]

Why would bots help solve the problem... they were the cause of the problem... Now if JM took a more active stance and banned all of them, than there would no longer be a problem now would there. Well i'm sure more shit would come up, but that's for the future.

Wooooooot, after a long distance, you went back to 0. Yes, "bots are the cause the problem". Now stop bullshitting and tell your friends to stop causing problems.

Ughh..... srsly like explaining stuff to a wall. They were the cause of the problem, but here's an example you might understand. The original botters were like a small, localized infection. JM is like our body's immune system. After awhile, it seemed that we contracted HIV and our body, JM, decided to stop giving a rat's ass. The small infection quickly went rampant and is now everywhere save Venus, our brain. The only way we really have to going back would be first JM would have to start actively going against botting. Telling our friends to stop botting would either A) alienate them from you for being an annoying prick or B) they would just ignore you. Why should they stop botting? What do you have to offer them? Sure I could offer them the joy of grinding together, but they're used to botting 24/7 and lvling up in their free time.

It's like black falcon said, this is just a game. if your goal is to be capped and rape everyone, you can either spend 3 years grinding with friends to cap or you can spend a month. Either way your getting there. Most people prefer the fast and easy way. Just look at the US. What do its people want? They want it big, fast, and cheap. Plain and simple.

[.curve]

Why would bots help solve the problem... they were the cause of the problem... Now if JM took a more active stance and banned all of them, than there would no longer be a problem now would there. Well i'm sure more shit would come up, but that's for the future.

Wooooooot, after a long distance, you went back to 0. Yes, "bots are the cause the problem". Now stop bullshitting and tell your friends to stop causing problems.

The cause? No. A part of? Definitely.

The cause was Joymax's lack of caring about this game/enforcing it's rules. I honestly think Joymax deserves to have their game in the state it's in now.

[Azilius]

Why would bots help solve the problem... they were the cause of the problem... Now if JM took a more active stance and banned all of them, than there would no longer be a problem now would there. Well i'm sure more shit would come up, but that's for the future.

Wooooooot, after a long distance, you went back to 0. Yes, "bots are the cause the problem". Now stop bullshitting and tell your friends to stop causing problems.

The cause? No. A part of? Definitely.

The cause was Joymax's lack of caring about this game/enforcing it's rules. I honestly think Joymax deserves to have their game in the state it's in now.

The cause is not a single thing, rather a mix of Joymax's lack of caring, human greed, etc.

[NuclearSilo]

ghh..... srsly like explaining stuff to a wall. They were the cause of the problem, but here's an example you might understand. The original botters were like a small, localized infection. JM is like our body's immune system. After awhile, it seemed that we contracted HIV and our body, JM, decided to stop giving a rat's ass. The small infection quickly went rampant and is now everywhere save Venus, our brain. The only way we really have to going back would be first JM would have to start actively going against botting. Telling our friends to stop botting would either A) alienate them from you for being an annoying prick or B) they would just ignore you. Why should they stop botting? What do you have to offer them? Sure I could offer them the joy of grinding together, but they're used to botting 24/7 and lvling up in their free time.

Oh yeah, talking about VIH (or HIV), do you know why there is no cure for that illness? No matter how much medicine you inject into your body, you can't kill all of them. Same analogy, JM can't resolve the problem alone. Either the virus retired from the body or self-destroyed, but it's likely that it will never happen. So if you want a healthy body, a good environment, you got to resolve the problem together.

And yes, that's the message you need to send to your friends if you want to convince them to turn to legit.

It's like black falcon said, this is just a game. if your goal is to be capped and rape everyone, you can either spend 3 years grinding with friends to cap or you can spend a month. Either way your getting there. Most people prefer the fast and easy way. Just look at the US. What do its people want? They want it big, fast, and cheap. Plain and simple.

Whoever starts to play a game, his very first goal is to seek the fun. Being strong is only the second goal. I know nothing about the US, so don't talk about it. If you want, you can also talk about the Turks, because most of them are badass so they'd consider scamming is a good thing to do.

The cause was Joymax's lack of caring about this game/enforcing it's rules. I honestly think Joymax deserves to have their game in the state it's in now.

The cause? No. A part of? Definitely.

[Goseki]

Hmm.. sliiiightly off topic, but I have heard of a recent approach to getting rid of the HIV virus. I think it involves using a mutated strand of the virus to integrate into the current viral RNA and cause it to undergo apoptosis and essentially preventing the virus from forming functional copies of itself in time. Although still in the testing stage, it has shown i think 90-100% success rate. The only thing about this method is that I really don't like it. It seems to be very risky as the possibility for further mutations might be possible... and that could lead to something even worse >_>.

[NuclearSilo]

there are medicines that stop VIH from spreading, expanding, but there's still no medicine that could kill it.
Oh, until then, maybe it's the time JM sell sro for Blizzard, that would be the solution. For now, either they cooperate or JM can't do shit.

[Goseki]

Actually this has shown both 0 effect to 100% destruction of the virus. The mutagen just makes the cell eventually fark itself over until it dies out.
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/02/09/hiv-mutation.html

there are medicines that stop VIH from spreading, expanding, but there's still no medicine that could kill it.
Oh, until then, maybe it's the time JM sell sro for Blizzard, that would be the solution. For now, either they cooperate or JM can't do shit.

Maybe it is the time for JM to sell than eh .





There is also an article of natural human resistance which was found in a stem cell transfer. The patient is now resistant to the virus. The resistance is genetically linked though so it will be hard to get that to be transferred into a drug form.

(Lol, this is getting slightly out of topic. If anyone wants, they can start a new topic in OTL and post the link here.)

[BuDo]

You guys still debating the morality of cheaters? dang... Still neglecting the real culprits uh...If I was Joymax I'd be laughing at you idiots right now. Which they probably are.

I can't believe some of you guys still going on and on about how cheaters/botters are ruining/ruined the game and your not directing your frustration to the people who uses an automated messaging system telling us for over 4 years now that they are trying their best to offer a "smooth gaming experience"

[Insanity]

BuDo the point of this is for everybody to discuss their opinions. You act like no one else's opinion except yours is right. That's why people are flaming in the thread. Because its an opinionated (<---- thats a word lol) thread. There is no right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own openion. You acting like you're completely right and that everybody else is still arguing over nothing simply makes you seem like a deusche.

[Trace]

Ughh..... srsly like explaining stuff to a wall. They were the cause of the problem, but here's an example you might understand. The original botters were like a small, localized infection. JM is like our body's immune system. After awhile, it seemed that we contracted HIV and our body, JM, decided to stop giving a rat's ass. The small infection quickly went rampant and is now everywhere save Venus, our brain.

After 14 pages, you finally acknowledged and called your friends an HIV infection.

The only way we really have to going back would be first JM would have to start actively going against botting. Telling our friends to stop botting would either A) alienate them from you for being an annoying prick or B) they would just ignore you. Why should they stop botting? What do you have to offer them? Sure I could offer them the joy of grinding together, but they're used to botting 24/7 and lvling up in their free time.

You realize that even if Joymax takes the initiative, botters are still selfish bastards to do their part in quelling the rampant cheating. Well done.

It's like black falcon said, this is just a game. if your goal is to be capped and rape everyone, you can either spend 3 years grinding with friends to cap or you can spend a month. Either way your getting there. Most people prefer the fast and easy way. Just look at the US. What do its people want? They want it big, fast, and cheap. Plain and simple.

This is what I don't get. There are games out there giving you instant gratification. PVP based games, FPSes, anything that doesn't need you to spend time grinding but instead just quickly learning the game and compete. Those are the types of games for people who don't like to grind. Why persist in a game genre that clearly isn't suited for people who have to cheat?

[Goseki]

In short Trace, because they can. This game pretty much makes it as easy as possible to cheat in. No admins, no GM, nothing. This game also has a really good and fluid pvp system, as well as some pretty cool moves. There are lots of reasons this game attracts people. This can be seen in how many players this game has. People cheat simply because they want to and there's no one in sight to stop them.

Err, I never called my friend's the HIV virus. I said that botters were infecting servers LIKE an HIV virus since they would be near impossible to completely get rid off unless you had very active GM's. I have both botting and non-botting friends. So pls don't go insulting my friends by saying i called them something that kills millions.

I could've sworn i've admitted before that botters are the original problem, but like i said in my analogy, JM made them rampant with their lack of control. The original botters were a very small group. They grew once they knew JM had no control anymore.

I'm not sure if I would call all botters selfish. Some will still talk to you and help you when you need them. The selfish ones are the ones running multiple accounts hording gold and items for themselves and cramming the server. Although with recent evidence of these mysterious bots hiding inside building, i'm not too sure it's just selfish botters or JM behind server crowding. I guess you could see their lvling with less effort than you as selfish, but I still think it's optional for you to play a game however you want to, especially when the rules are as laxed as they are here in iSRO.

[BuDo]

BuDo the point of this is for everybody to discuss their opinions. You act like no one else's opinion except yours is right. That's why people are flaming in the thread. Because its an opinionated (<---- thats a word lol) thread. There is no right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own openion. You acting like you're completely right and that everybody else is still arguing over nothing simply makes you seem like a deusche.

Ok sir...lets all continue to talk about bad people and how bad they are and how they need to stop being bad. Especially when they could care less or the people who can stop them don't give a dam. Lets all continue to debate and flame a horse for being a horse...a dog for being a dog...because you know...they just might change.

[PR0METHEUS]

ya baseball and all that other shit is a game too, but u also get something for being good at them. what do u get when u are capped in sro? knowing u spent the last 2 years of your life in front of your comp all day just to smash a bunch of buttons on your keyboard and say "omg i pwned you n000b!!!"? and, how do u cheat at baseball or other sports? theres no cheat codes for sports, your either good or your not.

How do you cheat at baseball?? How about steroids? How about putting a laxative in the other team's Gatorade? There are plenty of things you could do in baseball to cheat.

Install weights inside your bobsled.

You don't have to GET something for being good at a game. Just because you don't get a reward doesn't mean you should cheat. Now you're just being selfish. Chea to get to the top at everyone else's expense... and when you get there, as you said, you don't get any reward... so what was the point in cheating then? Just so you can say "omg i pwned you [more quickly] n00b!!!"?

[Trace]

In short Trace, because they can. This game pretty much makes it as easy as possible to cheat in. No admins, no GM, nothing. This game also has a really good and fluid pvp system, as well as some pretty cool moves. There are lots of reasons this game attracts people. This can be seen in how many players this game has. People cheat simply because they want to and there's no one in sight to stop them.

Even if there were GMs banning and trying to stop them, there will always be people who try to cheat (this is a fact). Saying people cheat because they can (right now) isn't a point of contention as on any server is evident enough to invalidate any arguments against it. I'm just making the point that if players dislike grinding, there are many games out there they could be playing instead of one that centers on grinding like silkroad. To persist in a game like silkroad (and complaining about the grind) is an habit conducive to perpetuate cheating behavior in these players. As ping_lo mentioned, the end game isn't the attraction.

Err, I never called my friend's the HIV virus. I said that botters were infecting servers LIKE an HIV virus since they would be near impossible to completely get rid off unless you had very active GM's. I have both botting and non-botting friends. So pls don't go insulting my friends by saying i called them something that kills millions.

You are the one to use a disease as an analogy. Don't go trying to get all emphatic when used to argue against you. You realize how insensitive it was for you to use that analogy. Plus, I don't care about your other friends (not my business). You know exactly who I'm referring to since we are focusing the arguments within this thread, or are you inferring that I'm unable to stay on topic? You seem to digress a lot in the arguments that you couldn't counter.

I could've sworn i've admitted before that botters are the original problem, but like i said in my analogy, JM made them rampant with their lack of control. The original botters were a very small group. They grew once they knew JM had no control anymore.

No one disagreeing with you here. This is like stating that the sky is blue. ping_lo already mentioned how Joymax defaulted to an automated banning system, since using a GM was ineffective according to them. It is evident that Joymax are unable to control the problem, but as stated time and time again by previous posts the players that cheat also hold half the responsibility of messing up the game. Silkroad could've been a greater game, but because of the rampant cheating the state of the game is pitiful.

I'm not sure if I would call all botters selfish. Some will still talk to you and help you when you need them. The selfish ones are the ones running multiple accounts hording gold and items for themselves and cramming the server. Although with recent evidence of these mysterious bots hiding inside building, i'm not too sure it's just selfish botters or JM behind server crowding. I guess you could see their lvling with less effort than you as selfish, but I still think it's optional for you to play a game however you want to, especially when the rules are as laxed as they are here in iSRO.

The rules of a game shape the way the game should be played, much like social rules, constraints and norms shape a society. Even though enforcement of rules are laxed (which I disagree as there are active bannings, which you stated as misleading, but nonetheless) breaking a rule is still breaking a rule. As I stated before again, who gets to decide which rule to break or how many? If you believe that players can nonchalantly choose to bot, then legit players equally have the right to boycott, ignore, and prejudice against botters (which is what this forum intended to do). It has nothing to do with personality of that or any player. If anyone chooses to cheat, we don't recognize them as playing the game anymore. If you're going to counter with why take this game so seriously because it is only a game? Then I'll say that no one here really takes anything seriously, but enjoys playing a game (having fun) actually playing the game and wanting to play it, not letting a program do the bulk of the game's content.

We both disagree, but we're both legit (as I have to believe). You don't have to hate your friends who bot, because outside of the game they can be really good people. Inside the game though, if you choose to play fair then expect everyone around you to respect that and follow suit. If they don't (and persists to cheat) then they don't respect your values (as a player, not a person mind you) and don't respect the game.

[PR0METHEUS]

To all the people saying "Joymax 'obviously' doesn't care about the bots, why should we? It's just a game, let them bot!"...

In the end, Joymax has a business to run. They more than likely want to meet their customers' expectations to potentially be the most profitable. If the majority of Joymax's customers bot, Joymax would cater more to them. However, if more of the community starts to take a stand against botting, Joymax may see this and follow suit.

I remember back around the time that the SRF mods started taking a hard stance against botting, opening up the EB section, actively banning botters and bot supporters from these forums, that is around the time that Joymax started posting those 20,000 and 30,000 bot ban lists weekly. SRF took an active stance against them, and so did Joymax.

SRF of course still has EB and still bans bots and supporters from these forums. However, now that a lot of them have been eliminated, activity in EB has decreased. As you can see, Joymax's bot banning activity has also decreased. Is this all just a coincidence? Mind you, SRF is one of the, if not the most, popular unofficial forums for SRO.

I'm not saying Joymax just does what SRF does of course. My point is Joymax "doesn't care" about botting, I think, because we as a community (the apparent majority) don't care. So who's fault is it?

[Goseki]

Well than Trace, I guess one of the difference between me and you, would be that you force your views onto your friends and others. I'm a bit more laxed. If I want to play the game legit, I'll do it, but if my friends choose not to, I'm not gonna let that come between us. IMO, friends > botting vs not botting. Don't say that I'm a bot supporter, because I'm not making my friends **** off because they cheat. I don't think that it's them not respecting my gaming experience either. If I tell them I want to grind by hand, they say sure, whatever you want, let us know if you need any help. They aren't trampling on my views. I've actually given up on the whole, JM will change and this game will be filled with legits only. The only way that could ever happen would be on a very strict private server. I calls it as I sees it, and I see that this game is so far down the drain, there's not much a drop of bleach can do. Back in the ole days I would be telling my friends how bad botting is and even delete them from my friends list. Obviously if taking that approach hasn't worked for 3 years, I doubt it will now. I've decided to just be friends with them. Sure they'll outlvl me, but as long as they're still willing to grind along when I ask and we are having fun, which is the point of any game, it's all good. Guess i'm just not as a "hardcore" gamer like you than.

You say there's no point in playing this game if you don't like to grind, but I disagree. I see many things you could do if you skipped the grinding part. Just because this game has grinding as a big part, there are other appeals such as the international aspect, the graphics, the setting, etc.

I'm curious, what's YOUR definition of "active bannings" Why is it that you consider what JM is doing active banning? I've stated before that they are hardly skimming the servers so i'm curious to see what they did to convince you that they are actually doing their job.

I disagree with the statement of botters are half the problem. The originals maybe, but now-a-days, botters hold 25-40% of the problem. New players are too quickly exposed to botting and offered the option to. When they see everyone else around them doing it with no consequence, they just assume it's the norm. You could say that they should play legit, but why should they? They haven't been around in the good ole days. All they've seen is botters running everywhere and no GM in sight. Their friends are telling them how much fun it is to bot and be a high lvl and use all these cool gear and skills.

You say it has nothing to do with a person's personality when it comes to being prejudice, boycott, and ignoring botters, but I disagree. It has everything to do with a person's personality. I've seen reactions ranging from foaming at the mouth to a calm sayonara. There are legits who choose to be a tightwad, and legits who are a bit more laxed. A person's personality is definitely a key factor.

[PR0METHEUS]

Don't say that I'm a bot supporter, because I'm not making my friends **** off because they cheat.

What do you consider a "bot supporter" then? I don't support cigarette smokers. I don't allow them to smoke in my home or car. If I am around them in public, I keep my distance while they are smoking. I don't support bots. I don't want them in my server (home) while they are botting. If you allow them in your "home" while they smoke/bot, aren't you in a way supporting them?

I disagree with the statement of botters are half the problem. The originals maybe, but now-a-days, botters hold 25-40% of the problem. New players are too quickly exposed to botting and offered the option to. When they see everyone else around them doing it with no consequence, they just assume it's the norm.

40% of the problem and 50% of the problem are not too far from each other. I don't think we're arguing numbers here. Does it really matter if botters are 32% or 54% of the problem? They are still a problem.

If 35% of children in a school are throwing their lunches at everyone in the cafeteria, and new students come in and see how fun this is and decide to do it too under the peer pressure, do you put any blame on the 35% that started it? They learned it from the original 5% that started it 'back in the day'. Or do you simply blame the school administration? Both are to blame. It doesn't matter if it's a small group of students (SRO players) or 86%. It's not just the administration (Joymax)

[Insanity]

Don't say that I'm a bot supporter, because I'm not making my friends **** off because they cheat.

What do you consider a "bot supporter" then? I don't support cigarette smokers. I don't allow them to smoke in my home or car. If I am around them in public, I keep my distance while they are smoking. I don't support bots. I don't want them in my server (home) while they are botting. If you allow them in your "home" while they smoke/bot, aren't you in a way supporting them?

but you're still friends with them. you're not gonna stop being friends with someone just because they smoke. this is the point that Goseki is trying to make. Just because they bot, doesn't mean they can't be cool people. I don't smoke, i don't support smoking, but my best friend smokes. Same with botting, i don't bot, i don't support it, but my entire server bots. I'm still friends with them.

[Goseki]

I consider a bot supporter someone who goes around saying "GO BOTS, they are soo nice and easy to use. So much better than wasting my life in front of my monitor pressing 12345 all day. Bots are the best. I don't know why legits waste hours hand-grinding when they can be ff an capped in a month. Legits are all nubs. Botters are awesome."

I never said that botting was good nor did I ever say that hand-grinding was dumb.

That is what I consider a bot supporter. I think i'm more of a botting sympathizer in the way that new players that bot are kinda thrown into this confused mess and think it's the norm. I don't think it's a good option to go around the grinding system, but due to JM lax policies, it's become a common method.

I don't like cigaretts either, but I've grown up with them, similar to SRO. I'm not gonna run up to someone preaching the Bible and throwing their cig on the ground, nor am i gonna go up and hug em. I'm just gonna let them be. If they wanna smoke their cig, they can go outside and do it. When they're done, they come back and we keep playing poker and drinking our beer into the night.

With that kids example and in SRO, it's KIDS. They aren't suppose to be held reliable. It's up to those in power to ensure they don't go out of line. The kids are to blame, but not as much as those in power. That was the point I was trying to make with the %.

[blackfalcon]

i agree with goseki... im not going to nvr talk to a friend again because they bot. i dont support them but im not going to lose friends over a computer game.

[NuclearSilo]

But im sure if now JM take a stance against botting, ban all your bot friends, they'll either quit or boycott JM.

[Insanity]

If they ban the botters, their gonna ban their source of income, and that would be like cutting off the hand that feeds them. All JM has to do to make botters hand grind is make it easier to lvl. To where you can get like a lvl a day instead of like 1% an hour...

[Trace]

Well than Trace, I guess one of the difference between me and you, would be that you force your views onto your friends and others. I'm a bit more laxed. If I want to play the game legit, I'll do it, but if my friends choose not to, I'm not gonna let that come between us. IMO, friends > botting vs not botting.

Only in the game (and a game like silkroad), and it's not my views exclusively, but the game rules. Outside the game (or depending on the game), it's completely different. This difference between us I believe, isn't really significant. At your worse, you would only be neutral to the ongoing problem.

Don't say that I'm a bot supporter, because I'm not making my friends **** off because they cheat. I don't think that it's them not respecting my gaming experience either. If I tell them I want to grind by hand, they say sure, whatever you want, let us know if you need any help. They aren't trampling on my views.

The problem is you believe that their actions (or any other player on your server) are mutually exclusive to your experience. Until you realize this is wrong, we'll keep on arguing in circles.

Sure they'll outlvl me, but as long as they're still willing to grind along when I ask and we are having fun, which is the point of any game, it's all good. Guess i'm just not as a "hardcore" gamer like you than.

I don't consider myself as a "hardcore" or serious gamer. I have my silly fun games, I have my mmorpg games like silkroad, and sometimes even a small dose of pvp based games. Most of what you do is grind on silkroad, but the point of playing isn't to get to cap, but to experience the hardship of getting there with your friends and guild. Even though it's chaotic around you, you just do your best and help each other out. It's part of the role playing, and I enjoy it immensely.

I see many things you could do if you skipped the grinding part. Just because this game has grinding as a big part, there are other appeals such as the international aspect, the graphics, the setting, etc.

Pvp based games has all the appeals you stated and more, plus they do much better at it compared to silkroad. You don't really need proof or examples, just observe or ask botters what they do after they hit cap, fully farmed, with good items.

I'm curious, what's YOUR definition of "active bannings" Why is it that you consider what JM is doing active banning? I've stated before that they are hardly skimming the servers so i'm curious to see what they did to convince you that they are actually doing their job.

You haven't been reading any of the previous posts, or maybe you've just forgotten but this has been answered already. Even though you disagree with gold bots being banned as a legitimate effort from Joymax, nevertheless it's still a legitimate action in my view. It isn't enough and it's been managed really badly. Making the assumption that this is a sign that Joymax allows players to bot is a false assumption. They can simply change the TOS and allow botting. They can just let everyone know that botting is allowed, and now players can freely bot without fearing of a ban (so that they don't have to threaten Joymax with a chargeback should they do get banned) and spend silk comfortably. So don't be cynical thinking that Joymax is secretly allowing botters, as a justification of cheating. Botters are every bit accountable for ruining the game.

I disagree with the statement of botters are half the problem. The originals maybe, but now-a-days, botters hold 25-40% of the problem. New players are too quickly exposed to botting and offered the option to. When they see everyone else around them doing it with no consequence, they just assume it's the norm. You could say that they should play legit, but why should they? They haven't been around in the good ole days. All they've seen is botters running everywhere and no GM in sight. Their friends are telling them how much fun it is to bot and be a high lvl and use all these cool gear and skills.

I've never written before that they should be legit. I do make it clear that they should get banned for cheating. Until they get banned, or until they decide to reroll legit, I'm going to ignore them in the game (passive resistance).

You say it has nothing to do with a person's personality when it comes to being prejudice, boycott, and ignoring botters, but I disagree. It has everything to do with a person's personality. I've seen reactions ranging from foaming at the mouth to a calm sayonara. There are legits who choose to be a tightwad, and legits who are a bit more laxed. A person's personality is definitely a key factor.

We're not experts here in the human psyche or sociology (unless you are then you're right). Your view is different to mine. I believe that there are no legits on silkroad, but only players. Everyone else who breaks a game rule is a cheater. It is just that simple. A person's personality has nothing to do with whether they will decide to cheat or not, and can be independent of how they are in real life. I care not much about the person in real life, as I do about a player in the game when I'm playing the game. Why do you believe the negative personality connotation on legits? You're a legit, you disprove that. You've also seen enough problematic botters on your server to know that the ones you hang out with as friends probably disproves that all botters are bad (personality-wise). You contradict yourself.

[NuclearSilo]

I doubt it. Even in ECSRO ppl are willing to bot. When botting become a habit, or let's say addicted, they're not gonna hand grind even if the exp is set to 20x rate.