Rogue dilemma

[kleptomaniac]

EDIT: Created a new poll. Which do you think is rather more useful?
As I understand, rogue would generally level faster with the bard's speed, but warlock skills would make rogue better in PvP and when it comes to killing strong monsters. (uniques, party mobs)

Its really a pretty difficult choice and I would appreciate if you would vote.
Maybe it brings some clarification.




_____________

Hey,

I will be making a new character. I like the crossbow, so I am planning on going rogue. I have some questions and second thoughts though.

What should I pick as my sub class?

Most of the people go bard just for the speed buff. I'm not sure if thats enough to pick a class. I've had several thoughts -

1) Take warrior as my subclass. I would only raise the mastery in order to have the ability to wear the heavy armor. This would mean that I get to make decent damage with the bow and get to have good defence. As an addition, I would also take dagger skills.

2) Take cleric as my subclass. This would give me the blesses and recovery skill. I could temporarily be stronger and get healed during a battle without an extra cleric. If you think this is the way I should go, advise which skills I should take.
(Meaning, that maybe I should take different skills to be more valuable in a party)

3) Take bard as my subclass. Like I mentioned - speed. I could move faster and I could have the noise skill. Though, is the speed that vital, if I am attacking from a distance anyway? If you think this is the way I should go, advise which skills I should take.
(Meaning, that maybe I should take tambours and whatnot to be more valuable in a party)

Please vote and don't hesitate to answer my questions and give out some tips.

Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated.

[kleptomaniac]

Anyone? Has this forum died or what..

[Tasdik]

Be patient. I'm not an expert on rogue sub classes so I'm waiting for someone with more experience to come.

Take a look at this topic: http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=56452

[Kolossal]

Im rogue/cleric 90
well if u choose cleric as subclass u will be very strong in pvp (especially using daggers)
and quite good in pve coz of recovery division and bless spell.

But, if u wanna hunt uniques, u should choose bard one.. noise helps a lot; and anyway the 100% speed increase at lvl 90 owns

[kleptomaniac]

Hm what about heavy armor + crossbow + dagger?
Wouldn't that be a really deadly combination?
I imagine the speed while grinding is not that important in a spot with a good spawn, as mainly I would be using the crossbow.

[diotron123]

BARD subclass is the best for 2 reasons:

1. Only need to max two skills in the bard mastery. (less sp needed to be farmed)
2. Noise skill is very useful for jobbing and Unique hunting.

The ONLY 2 skills u need to max in Bard is Noise and Speed. Everything else is pretty much useless.

With bard as your subclass, whe pvping, its best to keep your distance. Unless against a wizard, then u can dagger desperate his azz!

[kleptomaniac]

Still not sure what to do. Could I get more opinions and votes please.

[bloody]

Im rogue/cleric 90
well if u choose cleric as subclass u will be very strong in pvp (especially using daggers)
and quite good in pve coz of recovery division and bless spell.

But, if u wanna hunt uniques, u should choose bard one.. noise helps a lot; and anyway the 100% speed increase at lvl 90 owns

+1

[jyushinshuu]

go bard its the best subclass for rogue. its the best in all aspects.

[Fauntleroy]

Anyone? Has this forum died or what..

If answering takes over 5 hours do you think it mean this forum is dead. If you pvp much take cleric but if you love grinding take bard.

[kleptomaniac]

Hm. Am I really the only one who thinks that heavy armor + crossbow could be supreme combination?



Has anyone tried it out?

[jyushinshuu]

saw it and its not that good nothing special. why don't you go for robe instead of heavy armor.

[kleptomaniac]

saw it and its not that good nothing special. why don't you go for robe instead of heavy armor.

Well, robe physical defence is way too low. Rogue in robes probably just dies insanely fast.

[BloodyBlade]

Let me ask you a question, would you take xbow or daggers?

I think with daggers you are stronger with cleric, because you will get hit pretty much.

But with xbow, you won't get hit that often, this means you can better get bard, so you can get away when the enemy comes close.

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

Hm. Am I really the only one who thinks that heavy armor + crossbow could be supreme combination?



Has anyone tried it out?

doesnt really stand out like cleric.. but you can definitely tank phys. mobs longer than with light armor.

my union mate is lvl 79 and Warrior/Rogue
he kind of messed up using bard warrior at first
but he takes on any phys. mob very easily..
problem is, at roc mountain most mobs have magical attack too

[Ningyotsukai-san]

1) Take warrior as my subclass. I would only raise the mastery in order to have the ability to wear the heavy armor. This would mean that I get to make decent damage with the bow and get to have good defence. As an addition, I would also take dagger skills.

2) Take cleric as my subclass. This would give me the blesses and recovery skill. I could temporarily be stronger and get healed during a battle without an extra cleric. If you think this is the way I should go, advise which skills I should take.

3) Take bard as my subclass. Like I mentioned - speed. I could move faster and I could have the noise skill. Though, is the speed that vital, if I am attacking from a distance anyway? If you think this is the way I should go, advise which skills I should take.

1) If you're going to be taking Warrior, I'd suggest getting some warrior skills at least. Otherwise you're just raising a mastery for HA alone, which seems moreso a waste than helpful.

2) Group Res, Oblation / Immolation, Holy Recovery, Group Recovery, Recovery Division, Healing Cycle / Orbit, Integrity, Holyspell, Body Deity, Soul Deity, and Bless. (Can get Force Deity and Mental Deity (str / int), but you'd have to act as cleric for those to stick).

3) Not much of a fan for the bard sub. It's great for pve, but in single pvp it doesn't offer much, except Moving March, Patter Clamor, Cure Music, and maybe the weak absolutes (Tuning Sound). For group pvp it becomes handy. The Dances, Tambours, Mana Cycle, and maybe Mana Switch are useful.


EDIT:

Hm. Am I really the only one who thinks that heavy armor + crossbow could be supreme combination?

Has anyone tried it out?

It's nice, as long as you're quick on weapon switching. Having HA makes you very slow...I relied moreso on my warrior skills to survive when mobbed than just turning off CE. Vital and Iron Skin help a lot. (I was just 2hs/xbow though, so tanking was slightly harder than what a 1hs would have to deal with lol)

[BloodyBlade]

Hm. Am I really the only one who thinks that heavy armor + crossbow could be supreme combination?



Has anyone tried it out?

Like they said above me, take warrior skills too.

1handed would be enough I think, you got rogue for damage & warrior for tanking

[Kolossal]

saw it and its not that good nothing special. why don't you go for robe instead of heavy armor.

Well, robe physical defence is way too low. Rogue in robes probably just dies insanely fast.

lol rogues are full str, the problem whit them are the magical attacks, not the physical ones rogue with robe its probably a good thing

[Nitro]

Next character I'm making would be Warrior/Rogue.
All-round great build, great for unique hunting, great for 1v1, good for jobwars (playing as Warrior if hunter; Rogue if thief/trader - or you can mix both of them, but your fences are valuable, so weapon switching would be no-no), group fights (as Warrior)...

One of best builds as long as you farm everything.

[kleptomaniac]

Heh. I have decided to go Rogue/Warlock instead.

BUT, I still have doubts.

DAGGER OR CROSSBOW?

Thats my main concern right now. I guess crossbow is faster when it comes to soloing, powerleveling and training in general, while daggers are more massive in PvP.

What are you thoughts and suggestions? Which should I pick?

Thanks again!

[Ningyotsukai-san]

I'd suggest to get both.

Xbox generally for pve...and to kb / kd ppl in pvp

Daggers for when you're fighting giants and in pvp as well.

[Advancechao]

If you have to take one or the other, take Crossbow (with Bard) because it requires almost no SP and solos extremely fast. You can two hit mobs 5 levels ahead from a very far distance, and PvE is much more important than PvP (because if you don't level, you can't pvp!)

[kleptomaniac]

If you have to take one or the other, take Crossbow (with Bard) because it requires almost no SP and solos extremely fast. You can two hit mobs 5 levels ahead from a very far distance, and PvE is much more important than PvP (because if you don't level, you can't pvp!)

Hm, yes I have thought about that. Although, the speed isn't that vital when I attack from a range, therefore bard isn't really that important. I rather take warlock and make massive crits with my bow. Besides, if I take warlock as my sub, I would be wearing robes, which would give me certain speed anyway. Not sure how grinding would look like though. Constant weapon switch..
My combo would be good in PvP, not sure how to completely use its pros while training. Never had a warlock before.

[Ningyotsukai-san]

Not sure how grinding would look like though. Constant weapon switching.

You won't be weapon switching that much.

If you take Daggers + Xbow ...the only time you'd really need to switch weaps in pve is against giants or if you're mobbed. Otherwise, you'll just be using xbow.

A lack of speed can be a bit painful, but it's not "necessary" to lvl...yea, you'll lvl faster...but eh.

[kleptomaniac]

Not sure how grinding would look like though. Constant weapon switching.

You won't be weapon switching that much.

If you take Daggers + Xbow ...the only time you'd really need to switch weaps in pve is against giants or if you're mobbed. Otherwise, you'll just be using xbow.

A lack of speed can be a bit painful, but it's not "necessary" to lvl...yea, you'll lvl faster...but eh.

What I mean is that I really don't imagine how I would be leveling.

Solo and in parties. I guess when a stronger monster(party) comes, I swap to warlock and debuff the mob and then swap to crossbow and kill it. Regular monsters die without the warlock skills.

I guess thats how they play with crossbow/warlock huh?

It actually a hard call. I've seen rogues with xbows and bard's speed killing extremely fast.
But I'm guessing with warlock I would kill party monsters quicker and I would be MOAR awesome in PvP.

EDIT: New poll, please (re)vote!

[Ningyotsukai-san]

Idk ...I personally used my daggers in conjunction with warlock more than my xbow.

for pt mobs or giants ....yea, disese > debuff > switch to xbow / dagger ...kill

as for lvling ...dunno, try to make some friends...but people on venus are really put off on rogues in the pt without a bard sub.

Pvp...yea, the build's nice on the offensive, though you will run into trouble against people with a cleric sub.

EDIT:

Reading the new poll you got 2 choices: Heavily Solo or Party / Solo Based

xbow / warlock ...won't really be "wanted" in pts, good at solo grinding and pvp.

xbow / bard ...can get into 8/8 pts if you act as a bard, which makes lvling easier. Also takes the least amount of sp.

[kleptomaniac]

Idk ...I personally used my daggers in conjunction with warlock more than my xbow.

for pt mobs or giants ....yea, disese > debuff > switch to xbow / dagger ...kill

as for lvling ...dunno, try to make some friends...but people on venus are really put off on rogues in the pt w/o a bard sub.

Pvp...yea, the build's nice on the offensive, though you will run into trouble against people with a cleric sub.

Hmh.. thanks for your help, I can' decide. Confusing as hell.



Warlock - Bard
General mobs 0 - 1
Strong mobs 1 - 0
PvP - 1 - 0

It looks like warlock sub has more pros than bard. Meh, I hope the poll will help me decide.

[jyushinshuu]

forever bard sub class for all euro build. BARD FTW or just play bard with no sub class is also good.

[raphaell666]

Warlock - Bard
General mobs 0 - 1
Strong mobs 1 - 0
PvP - 1 - 0

Doing that kind of pros and cons table is simply fail. I'll help you improve your flawed table though (it'll keep being wrong anyways, just.. yeah).

Warlock - Bard
General mobs
0 - 1
Strong mobs
1 - 0
1vs1 PvP
1 - 0
Group PvP
0 - 1
Jobbing
0 - 1
Versatility
0 - 1

Total
2 - 4

Pwnage? I don't think so. There's not a "best" build. It's up to personal opinion. Like for someone 1vs1 PvP would be the main thing, so bard would be useless. There's not even a dilemma here, you can easily get to the answer by being guided by your personal opinions and the cons and pros of the builds.

By versatility I mean that you can act as a bard, for buffing, healing mana, helping in parties and so on. With warlock you'll have to solo all the way to 90 cap, because you'll be simply useless at good parties. The only thing you'll get from warlock is debuffing, while bard gives you speed, noise which protects you from aggro normal mobs, ability to heal MP, tambours, etc. Simply read bards and warlocks guides and choose the char that you prefer.

[kleptomaniac]

Thank you all for replies.

Maybe a person who has gone through the crossbow/warlock build could drop a comment or two.