Launching idea [PvE, Jobbing build]

[Believer]

PvE / Jobbing build:

2:1 STR hybrid:
90 pacheon / 90 light / 60 fire / 60 cold

100 cap:
100 pach / 100 light / 52 fire / 48 cold.


Discuss.

[Nitro]

Honestly?
I like it ALOT!

[BloodyBlade]

PvE / Jobbing build:

2:1 STR hybrid:
90 pacheon / 90 light / 60 fire / 60 cold

100 cap:
100 pach / 100 light / 52 fire / 48 cold.


Discuss.

Please explain why you have 52 fire & 48 cold? ;p
I dont understand why :p

[Nitro]

For 100 cap I'd make it
100 Bow, 90 Light, 50 Fire, 60 Ice.

[raphaell666]

For 100 cap I'd make it
100 Bow, 90 Light, 50 Fire, 60 Ice.

This is a 2:1 hybrid str build, not a full STR, so in this build imbue will change a lot your damage. Therefore I believe you should keep lightning (which will be your imbue) at the same level as your character. I think this is a good idea, but I'd like to know something before adding anything else: You intend to go with protector or garment?

[Nitro]

Meh, idea is alright, but dunno why, I perfer STR
100 Pacheon, 100 Fire, 80 Light, 20 Ice for lv.100

I think im not enough experienced with bows, to realize that they NEED ice badly.
If ice is below lv.50, it doesnt give you enough physical defense...
so you pump Ice only because of snow shield.


Hybrids are another story, and Idk what would I do for lv.100

100 Pacheon, 100 Light, 60 Fire, 40 Ice probabbly...

[Crowley]

PvE / Jobbing build:

2:1 STR hybrid:
90 pacheon / 90 light / 60 fire / 60 cold

100 cap:
100 pach / 100 light / 52 fire / 48 cold.


Discuss.

Please explain why you have 52 fire & 48 cold? ;p
I dont understand why :p

52 fire for the 7% physical damage? And 48 cold because that's all that's left

[XMoshe]

PvE / Jobbing build:

2:1 STR hybrid:
90 pacheon / 90 light / 60 fire / 60 cold

100 cap:
100 pach / 100 light / 52 fire / 48 cold.


Discuss.

Please explain why you have 52 fire & 48 cold? ;p
I dont understand why :p

52 fire for the 7% physical damage? And 48 cold because that's all that's left

No high lvl def buffs at all...I don't think that would work too well, unless you got a +6/7 set with 61%+ on each of the whites lol.

[raphaell666]

No high lvl def buffs at all...I don't think that would work too well, unless you got a +6/7 set with 61%+ on each of the whites lol.

+1 Absolutely, exactly what I thought. For 90 cap it's OK, the problem is 100 cap. I ask again to the topic starter: You intend to go with protector or garment?

[Believer]

No high lvl def buffs at all...I don't think that would work too well, unless you got a +6/7 set with 61%+ on each of the whites lol.

+1 Absolutely, exactly what I thought. For 90 cap it's OK, the problem is 100 cap. I ask again to the topic starter: You intend to go with protector or garment?

Most certainly protector. Invest heavily in absorbtion, defense. Highy parry whites + max light should make up for a part of the lost high level buffs.
Build should rely heavily on attack rating, parry ratio and absorbtion, rather than defense and damage. It's just an idea, really. Don't know how well it would work. I just liked the idea of mobility with a bow, and considering the fact that bows crit for the same damage, under the same conditions (weapons, buffs), whatever build they have, I thought I could balance out the need for physical damage (52 fire), snow shield (48 ice) and still get some useful mag. damage from the maxed lightning tree, apart from the mobility it provides. Do you understand my points?

[raphaell666]

Most certainly protector. Invest heavily in absorbtion, defense. Highy parry whites + max light should make up for a part of the lost high level buffs.
Build should rely heavily on attack rating, parry ratio and absorbtion, rather than defense and damage. It's just an idea, really. Don't know how well it would work. I just liked the idea of mobility with a bow, and considering the fact that bows crit for the same damage, under the same conditions (weapons, buffs), whatever build they have, I thought I could balance out the need for physical damage (52 fire), snow shield (48 ice) and still get some useful mag. damage from the maxed lightning tree, apart from the mobility it provides. Do you understand my points?

I see your point, though I must say that parry ratio and attack rating are pretty much useless. An easy example of that is when you use lightning imbue, when it's status is activated, the "Electric shock", it reduces your enemies parry ratio by HALF, that's less 50% parry. Do you notice a difference in damage after that status? I don't. Therefore I say that high parry + max light will not make up for the high ice and fire buffs. Also, in your build, you are planning to go for less defensive buffs at 100 cap than those you have at 90 cap, lol. If you really want that build (2:1 hybrid str), for 90 cap you could almost certainly go with 90pacheon/90lightning/60fire/60cold in protector. But you cannot maintain that method at 100 cap. When at it, I believe it's ok if you go with 100pacheon/100lightning/80fire/20cold using protector. That is if you really want to go with lightning imbue. I'd not suggest that though. I'd go with 100pacheon/100fire/70cold/30light or something like that.

[Believer]

Of course not 100 pach / 100 light / 80 fire / 20 cold. That makes no sense at all. Better is 100 fire and 80 light, of course.

Here is the point I am trying to make. Consider the classical 100 cap archer: full STR, 100 pach / 100 fire / 80 light / 20 cold. Makes plenty of sense, right? Now, he has small physical defense, he moves a little slower than my build, but has more physical damage and better buffs, from 100 fire.
Let's compare some things. Being STR hybrid, I will constantly hit higher than he does, and our crits will stay the same. (it has been proven by tomiotar and NuclearSilo) The downside of that is the fact that I don't have as much HP as he does. However, he can only use 20% absorbtion. I can use ~33%. I need that snow shield, to be able to make use of my extra MP. To get higher cold mastery would mean to reduce my HP even more, to make good use of higher level snow shield. That would turn me into an INT hybrid archer, and I would get raped outside of snow shield. This is a PvE, a jobbing build. I don't want to die in the 1 minute I don't have snow shield in. That's why I want to be STR hybrid. To be able to kill, a STR bow has to refrain from doing many arrow combos, else this gives his opponent time to pot. STR bows don't need to combo that much, because they already have plenty of HP. However, at 100 cap, Pacheon mastery gets the 6-arrow combo. My build doesn't have any high level protection buffs (Fire protection or might guard of ice). I can tank pretty well in snow shield, being STR hybrid, and I don't need to combo that often either. Crits hurt me pretty badly, though. If I get critted, I just ghost walk away, and tap the two arrow combos, followed by the following combination: Demon arrow -> Strong bow -> Anti-Devil -> Anti-Devil, which gives me plenty of DPS and high damage output, probably enough to hurt pretty badly.
Remember, this build deals high damage, and it is also very mobile. What it lacks, though, is defense, but it can make up for it, through snow shield, arrow combo and mobility. I added 100 pacheon and 100 light as the core of the build. Now, the rest of the mastery distribution was a dillemma. Another idea would have been 60 ice/40 fire. That would mean more combo-spamming, because I don't think a 2:1 STR can handle 40% absorbtion for a longer period of time, constantly taking hits. It would be dangerous to get stunned in a SSE -> SSE -> Windless combo, without the possibility of KB arrow being used. That's why I felt 48 ice and 52 fire (which gives 12% physical damage) balances out the remaining mastery points.

It's true that the STR bow is much more reliable, and you can't really go wrong with it. Also, you can't go wrong with a high-ice mastery glaiver either. This is a build you can go wrong with, but I feel you can also do well with it.

[raphaell666]

Of course not 100 pach / 100 light / 80 fire / 20 cold. That makes no sense at all. Better is 100 fire and 80 light, of course.
I thought you wanted maxed lightning, that's why I suggested that. And yes, it does make sense.

Here is the point I am trying to make. Consider the classical 100 cap archer: full STR, 100 pach / 100 fire / 80 light / 20 cold. Makes plenty of sense, right? Now, he has small physical defense,
No he does not. He has a good amount of physical defense simply because he is a pure STR.
he moves a little slower than my build, but has more physical damage and better buffs, from 100 fire.
Let's compare some things. Being STR hybrid, I will constantly hit higher than he does, and our crits will stay the same. (it has been proven by tomiotar and NuclearSilo and Barotix)
And you are wrong; the crits will not stay the same (I had the same thought as you). The hybrid str would deal a higher crit when against mobs with ~ 0 def, while the pure STR crits higher at mobs with higher def. I'm not going to explain it in this topic, it'd take too much space, but the reason for what I say you can find here (scroll down a bit): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=104718
The downside of that is the fact that I don't have as much HP as he does. However, he can only use 20% absorbtion. I can use ~33%. I need that snow shield, to be able to make use of my extra MP.
Yeah, I agree, sort of.

To get higher cold mastery would mean to reduce my HP even more, to make good use of higher level snow shield.
Uh, not necessarily reducing HP to get higher cold, you only need more MP to get higher snow shield. You kind of incorrectly inverted things there. Pure STRs can easily get 90 cold mainly for phy def and the ice wall but leave their snow shield at the first book and have maxed HP.
That would turn me into an INT hybrid archer, and I would get raped outside of snow shield. This is a PvE, a jobbing build. I don't want to die in the 1 minute I don't have snow shield in. That's why I want to be STR hybrid. To be able to kill, a STR bow has to refrain from doing many arrow combos, else this gives his opponent time to pot. STR bows don't need to combo that much, because they already have plenty of HP. However, at 100 cap, Pacheon mastery gets the 6-arrow combo. My build doesn't have any high level protection buffs (Fire protection or might guard of ice). I can tank pretty well in snow shield, being STR hybrid, and I don't need to combo that often either. Crits hurt me pretty badly, though. If I get critted, I just ghost walk away, and tap the two arrow combos, followed by the following combination: Demon arrow -> Strong bow -> Anti-Devil -> Anti-Devil, which gives me plenty of DPS and high damage output, probably enough to hurt pretty badly.
Remember, this build deals high damage, and it is also very mobile. What it lacks, though, is defense, but it can make up for it, through snow shield, arrow combo and mobility. I added 100 pacheon and 100 light as the core of the build. Now, the rest of the mastery distribution was a dillemma. Another idea would have been 60 ice/40 fire. That would mean more combo-spamming, because I don't think a 2:1 STR can handle 40% absorbtion for a longer period of time, constantly taking hits. It would be dangerous to get stunned in a SSE -> SSE -> Windless combo, without the possibility of KB arrow being used. That's why I felt 48 ice and 52 fire (which gives 12% physical damage) balances out the remaining mastery points.
The mastery points would be balanced because the "left over" masteries would be near, but that would be nowhere near to effective. The cap is 100, the difference from 48 cold buffs for example when compared to 100 cold are insane. As a hybrid STR with a 2:1 ratio, arranging the remaining 100 masteries points, I'd say the best would be to go with a high fire for more mag def and higher phy atk %, because they are what you most need. Also, go with protector then. But the problem is that your thing about snow shield would get "messed up". But it'd have a better damage than the one you were thinking about, with high mag def and, if using protector, good phy def also. It'd probably tank better outside snow. This is by far the best option for those leftover masteries imo. If you don't want maxed lightning, then I'd suggest something completely different like 100pacheon/100fire/70-100cold/0-30lightning for best defense while still having good damage.

It's true that the STR bow is much more reliable, and you can't really go wrong with it. Also, you can't go wrong with a high-ice mastery glaiver either.
Yes you can, lol. If you simply don't take fire with that glaiver you'll be going extremely wrong.
This is a build you can go wrong with, but I feel you can also do well with it.
Yeah, may be.

[Believer]

1) Bowers need mobility, to be able to make use of their range. Otherwise, a bow is a bow for the first 2 or 3 seconds of a fight. Then, it turns into a weaker glaiver.

Also, as far as high-ice mastery glaivers were concerned, I thought 100 fire and 100 heuksal were standard anyway. Of course you're doing very wrong with just ice.

2) I understand what you mean by the "incorrect inversion", but I was refering to the ideal case, in which one makes full use of his cold mastery (even as far as the snow shield goes).

Also, I agree with your mastery distribution as well. It's viable for 1 vs 1 PvP, but you need typhoons everywhere else.

[raphaell666]

1) Bowers need mobility, to be able to make use of their range. Otherwise, a bow is a bow for the first 2 or 3 seconds of a fight. Then, it turns into a weaker glaiver.

I don't completely agree with that, but yes, I completely understand your point. I don't think mobility is that needed by bowers, and therefore I'd choose higher def over speed. Your opinion is different than mine, and you choose speed over def, none of us is wrong, we just have different points of view.

Also, as far as high-ice mastery glaivers were concerned, I thought 100 fire and 100 heuksal were standard anyway. Of course you're doing very wrong with just ice.
2) I understand what you mean by the "incorrect inversion", but I was refering to the ideal case, in which one makes full use of his cold mastery (even as far as the snow shield goes).

I see.

Also, I agree with your mastery distribution as well. It's viable for 1 vs 1 PvP, but you need typhoons everywhere else.

That's true. But I don't mind buying and using a moving speed scroll or a typhoon just when I'm going to job, fortress war or any kind of group pvp, these speed increasing items last for an hour, which is pretty long.