Question about Venus

[SoAyame]

At the same time its nothing but flames, I just want to know y is this still up. I mean can the mods do their jobs. Religion? Meh i don't look at it like that i just play. Point Blank how can any non Venus player have an opinion when u dont play on it lol? Answer that for me

[Shadowfox542]

At the same time its nothing but flames, I just want to know y is this still up. I mean can the mods do their jobs. Religion? Meh i don't look at it like that i just play. Point Blank how can any non Venus player have an opinion when u dont play on it lol? Answer that for me

We can't we have an opinion on the rules, because we aren't part of it?

Oh, we can't have an opinion on Germany during world war 2, we weren't there.

How can a non-Nazi have an opinion about the what the Nazi's do?

Or Obama, we can't have an opinion on him, never even met him!

Why can't we discuss things related to silkroad in the GD?

[SoAyame]

I have no idea dude. Yeah its pointless to have opinions about it. The rules may seem crazy but at least check out Venus first. I mean REALLY check it out. Try the parties to the pvp to everything. You will notice one thing. Most of the botters are gone now anyway thanks to the new server but u got old Venus ppl trying to take that one over too. Anti Venus ppl cant judge what u never tried.

[MidnightMan]

your guys crap has tarnished the whole meaning of the legit server, is it not stated that anyone over lvl 40 not in an approved guild or guildless is blacklisted or forbiden to party with, and do I need to go on the gay igamelegit(now since theres a 90 day rule).com forum and pull out posts about pking people that are not on the whitelist, that is imposing your rules on people not in your unions, it clearly says "join our union or you'll get pked"

[Shadowfox542]

I have no idea dude. Yeah its pointless to have opinions about it. The rules may seem crazy but at least check out Venus first. I mean REALLY check it out. Try the parties to the pvp to everything. You will notice one thing. Most of the botters are gone now anyway thanks to the new server but u got old Venus ppl trying to take that one over too. Anti Venus ppl cant judge what u never tried.

Nazi's killed jews.

You can't judge, unless you've tried.

[Twist]

Just lock this thread, its obvious NuclearSilo and rest of guys are just looking for Venus guys attention.Thats their rules, respect it, or just shut the phuck up.


Nuclear go download some more pics of that ugly thing in your avy, kthx.

[SoAyame]

your guys crap has tarnished the whole meaning of the legit server, is it not stated that anyone over lvl 40 not in an approved guild or guildless is blacklisted or forbiden to party with, and do I need to go on the gay igamelegit(now since theres a 90 day rule).com forum and pull out posts about pking people that are not on the whitelist, that is imposing your rules on people not in your unions, it clearly says "join our union or you'll get pked"

I don't log into igamelegit.com I don't pk and if u are guildless and lvl 40 well idk bout all that as well. Im not as hardcore as the rest menz. Venus is a good server thats all im trying to say. lvl 40 pk lol that must be Avalon union or something because the union im in don't do such things. I for one if not a fan of that union too much but we have common goals.

[SoAyame]

I have no idea dude. Yeah its pointless to have opinions about it. The rules may seem crazy but at least check out Venus first. I mean REALLY check it out. Try the parties to the pvp to everything. You will notice one thing. Most of the botters are gone now anyway thanks to the new server but u got old Venus ppl trying to take that one over too. Anti Venus ppl cant judge what u never tried.

Nazi's killed jews.

You can't judge, unless you've tried.

I never have I don't give a rats ass what happen during WW2 or any war lol. I dont care about Nazis or jews. You have a better example my friend?

[justaskphil]

Still don't understand why this topic was started. Yep, it looks like a religious argument, so the best outcome is to agree to disagree, and move on. Those that play on Venus and uphold the Confederation, more power to you(us)! Those that have a different opinion about it, that's cool too. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts about it all, and there's no need to bash the other side b/c of their failure to either recognize or to comprehend the opposing POV.

And yes, this topic stayed opened 9 pages longer than I thought it would.

[Nyx]

Still don't understand why this topic was started. Yep, it looks like a religious argument, so the best outcome is to agree to disagree, and move on. Those that play on Venus and uphold the Confederation, more power to you(us)! Those that have a different opinion about it, that's cool too. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts about it all, and there's no need to bash the other side b/c of their failure to either recognize or to comprehend the opposing POV.

And yes, this topic stayed opened 9 pages longer than I thought it would.

I like you, you're smart <3

[Twist]

Still don't understand why this topic was started. Yep, it looks like a religious argument, so the best outcome is to agree to disagree, and move on. Those that play on Venus and uphold the Confederation, more power to you(us)! Those that have a different opinion about it, that's cool too. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts about it all, and there's no need to bash the other side b/c of their failure to either recognize or to comprehend the opposing POV.

And yes, this topic stayed opened 9 pages longer than I thought it would.

I like you, you're smart <3

Yep, if you have a problem, just ask Phil.

[SoAyame]

Still don't understand why this topic was started. Yep, it looks like a religious argument, so the best outcome is to agree to disagree, and move on. Those that play on Venus and uphold the Confederation, more power to you(us)! Those that have a different opinion about it, that's cool too. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts about it all, and there's no need to bash the other side b/c of their failure to either recognize or to comprehend the opposing POV.

And yes, this topic stayed opened 9 pages longer than I thought it would.

Yeah man I took that advice the first 16 pages then i saw it was still going wondering why its not locked. I'll just lock it in my head. Thx

[Shadowfox542]

I have no idea dude. Yeah its pointless to have opinions about it. The rules may seem crazy but at least check out Venus first. I mean REALLY check it out. Try the parties to the pvp to everything. You will notice one thing. Most of the botters are gone now anyway thanks to the new server but u got old Venus ppl trying to take that one over too. Anti Venus ppl cant judge what u never tried.

Nazi's killed jews.

You can't judge, unless you've tried.

I never have I don't give a rats ass what happen during WW2 or any war lol. I dont care about Nazis or jews. You have a better example my friend?

Venus Confederation is more important to you than the lives of 6,000,000 jews.

Just wow.

[Twist]

Omg retarded kids, dont post, you just make yourself look like you are mentally unstable.

[Tyrax]

Still don't understand why this topic was started. Yep, it looks like a religious argument, so the best outcome is to agree to disagree, and move on. Those that play on Venus and uphold the Confederation, more power to you(us)! Those that have a different opinion about it, that's cool too. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts about it all, and there's no need to bash the other side b/c of their failure to either recognize or to comprehend the opposing POV.

And yes, this topic stayed opened 9 pages longer than I thought it would.

I like you, you're smart <3

Yep, if you have a problem, just ask Phil.

Is that his catchphrase?

[JKMB]

Omg retarded kids, dont post, you just make yourself look like you are mentally unstable.

lol, , but I have to completely agree with Justaskphil to, that said afaik nothing on sro has been tried before that comes close to the scale of the confederation, so of course it isnt going to be perfect, but its not bad for a 1st attempt.

[Peaslums]

i just started on venus a couple weeks ago, and i don't play often enough to join a guild so im going to be another guildless legit. i guess im gonna get pk'd. its just a game, everyone seems to forget that on this server

[Twist]

Omg retarded kids, dont post, you just make yourself look like you are mentally unstable.

lol, , but I have to completely agree with Justaskphil to, that said afaik nothing on sro has been tried before that comes close to the scale of the confederation, so of course it isnt going to be perfect, but its not bad for a 1st attempt.

Lol JK, come on MSN sometimes, u homo.

[MidnightMan]

i just started on venus a couple weeks ago, and i don't play often enough to join a guild so im going to be another guildless legit. i guess im gonna get pk'd. its just a game, everyone seems to forget that on this server

thats exactly my point, its a game, you have some members making a way of life out of it and dedicating all their time to make something out of a game that doesnt even have enough morals to uphold their own rules

[Guthix]

It's been proven, with constructed and valid arguments, that Avalon:

-Lead a dictature on Venus. (refer to arguments in the thread about it)
-Base this dictature on hypocritical facts (in other words, they don't allow others to do what they did on venus in the past, this excludes botting but is mostly aimed at plvls and partying with people under lvl 40). (example: why did their create the confed after they got capped, and not while they were on their way to the cap?)
-Are an extremely arrogant community.(refer to arguments in the thread about it)
-Etc, etc, etc...

Also, we know that Avalon:

-Never answers any of your arguments with solid/valid arguments (go fck yourself... gtfo... or indirect replies like if they didn't knew what you meant...)
-Always flame in their replies to any arguments (not directly flame at the first post, in some cases it goes on progressively).
-Never, ever say "youa re right" to any single argument (refer this to "arrogancy" mentioned above).


However, even though Avalon has/was proven to not be so great as a community, they didn't fall out yet. Why? Because they have a strong guild and have the fortress. The guild is strong due to the accomulation of extremely hardcore players (e.g. Maggi, lvl 90 in barely 3 months). Also, they are the core of all parties: the union being the most active, they have control over most parties in the game, thus they can create a confederation to assure their dictature over every euro legit in this game. This is why they now have so much control.

The point is, once Avalon loses the fortress, they will indeed go through a (huge?) loss of control and this dictature will most likely be over. Players will eventually be able to party with anyone as long as those persons are fully legit and will eventually gain more rights in game without having to think about getting blacklisted and being banned from their guilds, obviously staying legit (to know about what kind of rights I am talking about, refer to the many other arguments in this thread).

Now, as I have mentioned above, Avalon will never recognize our negative critisicm (not flaming) upon them, as their arrogant. If you want to end with this lame, selfish and hypocritical dictature, you can try to take them out of their throne by taking the fortress, or you might aswell just play on other servers. If you want to enjoy this game and have acces to all your rights (legit..), don't go on venus.

[Barotix]

NuclearSilo is a closet botter, anyone that doesn't see it is totally dumb haha.. yeah you got served.. I'm glad I satisfied your contribution purpose...

PS: My old server was Rome btw, I know wat guilds were legits and wat guilds were not... don't let me log onto Rome and get your real char name, proof that you bot, and get you banned, SRF will be proud to lose the so called big bot contributor ^^... just leave quietly like a looser...

T3ddy; everyone has been making constructive post until you entered the thread. They have successfully refuted Nuclear's arguments without insulting him and accusing him of botting. I suggest you stop, now.

Not really, the confederation is not running by itself, a small group of closet botters are running it.

As for you; what proof do you have? Because Nightbloom botted two years ago the confederation is run by closet botters? Your theory sounds nice, but thankfully in practice it doesn't work that way. The confederation as I stated in this thread several times has no central power. Do yourself a favor and read all 16 pages.

btw the whole problem is you dont understand its not your server, its joymaxs along with every other server, you have no right to impose any rules for a server that are not in JM's TOS, yes you have the right to create a guild/union and and impose rules specifically to those people, but thats not where YOUR union stops.

Are you saying that multiple Unions are not allowed to form an alliance? So it is fine for one Union to "make game play a living hell", but when multiple Unions do it they're breaking the ToS/EULA? Your argument is flawed. A classical example is when two Unions form an Alliance to share the fortress. They are making it considerably harder for anyone else to capture the fortress. Define confederation.

Silo said something about its like religion, no one is wrong, just different opinions.

Silo argues against a strawman version of the confederacy.

i just started on venus a couple weeks ago, and i don't play often enough to join a guild so im going to be another guildless legit. i guess im gonna get pk'd. its just a game, everyone seems to forget that on this server

You won't get pked; there is no rule that states you will get pked. Silo made that up. We only pk botters. If you're not AFK botting then I see no reason for you to fear being pked. BTW, there are plenty of casual guilds that would be more than willing to take you in, Asylum is one of them.

thats exactly my point, its a game, you have some members making a way of life out of it and dedicating all their time to make something out of a game that doesnt even have enough morals to uphold their own rules

No-one runs the confederation. It is like a large Union with no leader. All Unions have rules.

Lead a dictature on Venus. (refer to arguments in the thread about it)

There have been no arguments; just baseless statements.

Base this dictature on hypocritical facts (in other words, they don't allow others to do what they did on venus in the past, this excludes botting but is mostly aimed at plvls and partying with people under lvl 40)

That argument is very flawed. It is hypocritical to stop botting, become legit, and tell others to be legit too? BTW; There was no-one around to plvl Avalon as they were capping. They were the first. I guess the level 76s were plvling the levels 70s!!! There is a logical reason for the plvl rule; people that get plvl won't be able to level once the plvl stops because they suck at p-grinding. It really is that simple.

Are an extremely arrogant community.(refer to arguments in the thread about it)

Defending my Union against baseless accusations makes me arrogant?

Never answers any of your arguments with solid/valid arguments (go fck yourself... gtfo... or indirect replies like if they didn't knew what you meant...)

First off your premise is flawed so technically every argument afterwards is flawed, but I won't let you off so easily. Every "go fck yourself" response was moved or deleted. Are you saying my arguments are invalid?

Always flame in their replies to any arguments (not directly flame at the first post, in some cases it goes on progressively).

I am flaming? Remus is flaming? I see two people in this thread from Venus that have a tendency to flame everyone with a contrary opinion; 1]Buster, and 2]T3ddy.

Never, ever say "youa re right" to any single argument (refer this to "arrogancy" mentioned above).

This must be some really bad trolling.

The rest of your argument is moot because now you're just having fun whacking a strawman.

[Zero_Doom]

It's been proven, with constructed and valid arguments, that Avalon:

-Lead a dictature on Venus. (refer to arguments in the thread about it)
-Base this dictature on hypocritical facts (in other words, they don't allow others to do what they did on venus in the past, this excludes botting but is mostly aimed at plvls and partying with people under lvl 40). (example: why did their create the confed after they got capped, and not while they were on their way to the cap?)
-Are an extremely arrogant community.(refer to arguments in the thread about it)
-Etc, etc, etc...

Also, we know that Avalon:

-Never answers any of your arguments with solid/valid arguments (go fck yourself... gtfo... or indirect replies like if they didn't knew what you meant...)
-Always flame in their replies to any arguments (not directly flame at the first post, in some cases it goes on progressively).
-Never, ever say "youa re right" to any single argument (refer this to "arrogancy" mentioned above).


However, even though Avalon has/was proven to not be so great as a community, they didn't fall out yet. Why? Because they have a strong guild and have the fortress. The guild is strong due to the accomulation of extremely hardcore players (e.g. Maggi, lvl 90 in barely 3 months). Also, they are the core of all parties: the union being the most active, they have control over most parties in the game, thus they can create a confederation to assure their dictature over every euro legit in this game. This is why they now have so much control.

The point is, once Avalon loses the fortress, they will indeed go through a (huge?) loss of control and this dictature will most likely be over. Players will eventually be able to party with anyone as long as those persons are fully legit and will eventually gain more rights in game without having to think about getting blacklisted and being banned from their guilds, obviously staying legit (to know about what kind of rights I am talking about, refer to the many other arguments in this thread).

Now, as I have mentioned above, Avalon will never recognize our negative critisicm (not flaming) upon them, as their arrogant. If you want to end with this lame, selfish and hypocritical dictature, you can try to take them out of their throne by taking the fortress, or you might aswell just play on other servers. If you want to enjoy this game and have acces to all your rights (legit..), don't go on venus.

Guthix, I don't have the patience to go through your post and show everyone how dumb you really are. You don't like Avalon because you were so upset that we blacklisted your buddy, who intentionally fked up to get attention. Then, you fked over Nox, and got even more people to dislike you. You know damn good and well why the confed was formed after people capped, and you know damn good and well that Avalon does not run the show. You sir are a moron, and I hope that everyone gets the chance to see it in this post. xP

[Guthix]

One of my previous arguments:

Also, we know that Avalon:

-Never answers any of your arguments with solid/valid arguments (go fck yourself... gtfo... or indirect replies like if they didn't knew what you meant...)

Now has solid proof:

Guthix, I don't have the patience to go through your post and show everyone how dumb you really are. You don't like Avalon because you were so upset that we blacklisted your buddy, who intentionally fked up to get attention. Then, you fked over Nox, and got even more people to dislike you. You know damn good and well why the confed was formed after people capped, and you know damn good and well that Avalon does not run the show. You sir are a moron, and I hope that everyone gets the chance to see it in this post. xP

This is an example of the intellectual level in Avalon; or at least you have people giving you one very bad image of you... Your way of replying = flaming (exception to Barotix who actually replied with some more arguments and no flaming at all than the general stereotype of the Avalonian. I'll eventually answer you arguments, at least you're worth discussing with).

There have been no arguments; just baseless statements.

There's a reason why so many people complain about you, isn't there? And don't say the usual "they're all jealous", if it was about that, it wouldn't go this deep.

That argument is very flawed. It is hypocritical to stop botting, become legit, and tell others to be legit too? BTW; There was no-one around to plvl Avalon as they were capping. They were the first. I guess the level 76s were plvling the levels 70s!!! There is a logical reason for the plvl rule; people that get plvl won't be able to level once the plvl stops because they suck at p-grinding. It really is that simple.

No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about what happens after they cap aswell. For example, the Confederation was made after they capped. Many rules came after most of the originals capped, e.g. there was a time in which you could play with guildless no matter their lvl, or even people from unconfirmed guilds (which most likely had botters) as long as they were legit. And why does it have to change after they're ready, than before? It would lead many people to think they actually did it before, since there were no rules about it, do you understand what I am saying?

Defending my Union against baseless accusations makes me arrogant?

It's not in this cases that you (not refering to you as the person bot you as a generality in Avalon) that you show to be arrogant. I don't need to give you examples of arrogance in Avalon, you know what I'm talking about.

First off your premise is flawed so technically every argument afterwards is flawed, but I won't let you off so easily. Every "go fck yourself" response was moved or deleted. Are you saying my arguments are invalid?

I didn't get your point there... Do you mean that, if we remove the "go fck you" from people's arguments, they become serius? But if they put them there in the first place.. before removing them.. it means that they just acted childish in the first place. It's the decisions you make, in the first time you make them, that define who you are: Anyone can post something and then edit it for weeks until its perfect.

I am flaming? Remus is flaming? I see two people in this thread from Venus that have a tendency to flame everyone with a contrary opinion; 1]Buster, and 2]T3ddy.

Read my post above.

This must be some really bad trolling.

I didn't write exactly what I meant, my bad. What I mean is, you're the kind of people who never recognize their mistakes. No one can be perfect, for example the hypocrisy, we can all be hypocrite since it's easy to say something but sometimes harder to do it. It's natural. What isn't natural is the fact you just won't admit it.

The rest of your argument is moot because now you're just having fun whacking a strawman.

I like to whack strawmans... reminds me of lvl 1 chinese hitting mangyangs so what?

[PureStr]

-Lead a dictature on Venus.

dictatorship:
1. A government in which a single leader or party exercises absolute control over all citizens and every aspect of their lives]: absolutism, autarchy, autocracy, despotism, monocracy, tyranny. See over/under, politics.
2. Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly: autocracy, despotism, totalitarianism, tyranny. See over/under, politics.
3. A political doctrine advocating the principle of absolute rule: absolutism, authoritarianism, autocracy, despotism, totalitarianism. See over/under, politics.

How can you explain the fact that it`s a "dictatorship" if citizens are free to join or leave as they please, because:
1) There are no rules that obligates players on venus to join the confederation.
2) There are no rules that forbids a confederated player from leaving the confederation.


Freedom is obedience to laws that we will to ourselves, therefore the confederation is only forcing us to be free.

[thechampion80]

it seems that a lot of avalon's people are just increasing the truth of the anti-avalon people's statements

i personally think avalon should loosen up a bit because the bots are pretty much gone already

[REBD]

NuclearSilo is a closet botter, anyone that doesn't see it is totally dumb haha.. yeah you got served.. I'm glad I satisfied your contribution purpose...

PS: My old server was Rome btw, I know wat guilds were legits and wat guilds were not... don't let me log onto Rome and get your real char name, proof that you bot, and get you banned, SRF will be proud to lose the so called big bot contributor ^^... just leave quietly like a looser...

T3ddy; everyone has been making constructive post until you entered the thread. They have successfully refuted Nuclear's arguments without insulting him and accusing him of botting. I suggest you stop, now.

Not really, the confederation is not running by itself, a small group of closet botters are running it.

As for you; what proof do you have? Because Nightbloom botted two years ago the confederation is run by closet botters? Your theory sounds nice, but thankfully in practice it doesn't work that way. The confederation as I stated in this thread several times has no central power. Do yourself a favor and read all 16 pages.

btw the whole problem is you dont understand its not your server, its joymaxs along with every other server, you have no right to impose any rules for a server that are not in JM's TOS, yes you have the right to create a guild/union and and impose rules specifically to those people, but thats not where YOUR union stops.

Are you saying that multiple Unions are not allowed to form an alliance? So it is fine for one Union to "make game play a living hell", but when multiple Unions do it they're breaking the ToS/EULA? Your argument is flawed. A classical example is when two Unions form an Alliance to share the fortress. They are making it considerably harder for anyone else to capture the fortress. Define confederation.

Silo said something about its like religion, no one is wrong, just different opinions.

Silo argues against a strawman version of the confederacy.

dude i respect you and you were right to allow this topic to go to a sertain point, but it is way over now, we explain clearly and yet they still do not understand and worst of all some people just skip all the posts, go to the last page and post something that we already explained as flawed. Now they are comparing our server to Nazi Germany? When i first joined the server I was wtf are those rules, but once you play a little, talk with people, see things happening you understand that those rules are there for a reason and they do not limit you in any way. If you disagree whit the rules you can join a guild that is not in the Confederation. There is no problem with that, yes you might get pk by someone in the Confed, but then again do you think that the Confed is safe from pk ? Every player in the game over level 20 can be pk'd. There is no escaping this.

[Guthix]

I edited my above post with an answer to Barotix.

-Lead a dictature on Venus.

dictatorship:
1. A government in which a single leader or party exercises absolute control over all citizens and every aspect of their lives]: absolutism, autarchy, autocracy, despotism, monocracy, tyranny. See over/under, politics.
2. Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly: autocracy, despotism, totalitarianism, tyranny. See over/under, politics.
3. A political doctrine advocating the principle of absolute rule: absolutism, authoritarianism, autocracy, despotism, totalitarianism. See over/under, politics.

How can you explain the fact that it`s a "dictatorship" if citizens are free to join or leave as they please, because:
1) There are no rules that obligates players on venus to join the confederation.
2) There are no rules that forbids a confederated player from leaving the confederation.


Freedom is obedience to laws that we will to ourselves, therefore the confederation is only forcing us to be free.

We all know that you don't force players to join the confederation. However, you must admit that you don't really like people who are from outside the confederation.
Both you and me know that European characters depend on parties to lvl. As I have mentioned above, you have control on the core of all euro parties (most euro parties have avalonians, and depend on you guys to have good parties, you are more active than BHA. Thus you have control on those parties and thus on all europeans). But then, you don't allow lvl 40+ guildless to join parties for a reason I don't quite understand (because you doubt on them, most likely?) If they can't join european parties, which are being led by avalonians, how can they lvl up, considering they depend on them for efficient grinding, and thus enjoying the game?

You are most likely gonna tell me "the guildless can make their own parties", but you know that argument is far from being valid, as it's incredibly hard to make a full guildless party with the required builds to make one and without bot/botplvled players).

To sum up, you don't have control or lead a direct dictature on most players, which is what most people are thinking, however you have one strong influence that acts just like a dictature.

[JustaDude]

All the Venus slaves of the "Confederation"

[Blyth]

Do you have proof to help with these allegations? Cause if you don't, you should probably stfu. xP
BTW, what is your character name on Venus? I am curious who you are. ^_____^

Once a cheater, always a cheater, or so the saying goes. This goes for nightbloom and other hypocrites.
Don't tell me that they suddenly found out how great it is to be legit and decided to quit all illegal activities, that just doesn't happen, sorry to burst your bubble.

As for my identity, that shouldn 't really concern you, let's just say I'm a shadow.

With that picture, Nuclear pretty much accused every member of the confederation of
botting.
Without any proof

Actually that's just the way it is, of course no one will admit it, but that's just the way it works. For god's sake, it's the internet, people will cheat just for the sake of it.

Calling me mindless on a single comment in response to a comment where you fail is no fact. And it does not hurt.

This "charade" will last as long as people like you fuel the fire, meaning forever or until a Mod gets bored of this and lock

It is a fact for the simple reason that most of you so called venus legits start to bark as dogs whenever someone says something which isn't same as your opinion. Hell i wouldn't even be surprised if some of you would jump of a bridge if your lovely leaders would say to do so.

ts just a game, everyone seems to forget that on this server

So it seems, quite sad actually, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

As for you; what proof do you have? Because Nightbloom botted two years ago the confederation is run by closet botters? Your theory sounds nice, but thankfully in practice it doesn't work that way. The confederation as I stated in this thread several times has no central power. Do yourself a favor and read all 16 pages.

Guthix pretty much said everything. As for proof, then i'll say it again once a cheater, always a cheater.

Anyway, this thread isn't going anywhere, people will always share different opinions and disagree with each other. So i would advise to lock it to end it all. For now atleast.

[SoAyame]

Wow this topic still going.