Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[Mefra]

I don't know if this has been brought to discussion yet , but if not , i'm happy to share it .
I thought about it a little bit and with 90 cap coming i have an idea of using 70 lvl of cleric and 20 of bard , sure this won't allow me to stun in pvp with cleric nor bard , but i like it so much more , 30% speed increase , and 1000+ hp from RD is enough for me.
I heard that recovery division's capacity of HoT has a lot to do of the magical attack of the cleric rod , that being said it should be very usefull to have a low lwl mastery and a high lvl weapon .

I´ve thought about this too. But there are 2 mayor flaws that you forget.

1. When are you going to get the 20 bard? If you take it before lvl 40, you'll need a huge gap to get RD at 40. If you take it later on, you've already played a lot of the game without the benifits from the moving speed. Best suggestion might be to take it after lvl 40 and leave Cleric at 40.

2. As far as I know, the amount of healing from RD does increase with a better cleric rod, but only if you have that rod equipped. So as soon as you switch to Daggers or Crossbow, you'll only get the minimum amount of healing.

P.s. Right now I'm at lvl 47 with Cleric and Rogue at 44. I decided not to take the bard, even though it's a pain in the ass to walk in such a slow pace, but as far as I'm concerned that's the only real benefit that bard gives. (if I would have to start again I would take Bard, it levels you up a whole lot faster and you can always decide to switch when you've reached the cap)

[Domination]

Lot of funny stuff listed here. I have read most the posts and understand that many people are still confused on which sub-class suits them best. Remember, everybody has different playing styles. I'll throw in my 2-cents here as well. I personally like to level fast and therefor will explain why bard is the best choice. Remember, Bard is not just about moving around fast, it helps with survivability. Sure a Rogue/Cleric can "tank" a party mob... but what happens when they get ganged by multiple mobs? Its best to stay off the radar.

For those who are in a rich, fellow player community (Venus):

If you really want to level up and hit the high levels the fastest, go Bard. Simple as that. Hmm... Why is he saying this... I wonder... Well lets look at this. As a rogue by yourself, we've got a bad reputation from nub rogues. People think we are useless in parties. Sure you can prove them wrong by being a luring machine, but lets be real, people don't want to waste their time trying something new. Some are, but most are not.
With bard as a sub-class, you will be able to enter parties as a bard. Bard will help you both solo and in party play. However, if you do decide to go bard, you must have most of the bard skills maxed. You only really need Mana Cycle, Moving March, Guard Tambour, Hit march, Noise, and Dancing of Magic. When i party play as a rogue/bard, i only use Mana cycle to heal mp. Just throw a mana cycle on yourself first then other people and you will do just fine. Just make sure your stuff is up to date. By choosing bard as your sub, you will get into tons of parties.
I know many of you disagree and you want cleric or warlock instead. Well i got a question for you.... Do you ever party play with people know know what they are doing? Do you really think you can lv faster with a different sub-class? Bard = more party openings. Most parties need 2 bards. This means you got a good chance to join a party. Why? For the dances and its easier to keep the whole party's mp up. I always see parties that say "NEED BARD" I'd love to see a pure str cleric do a good enough job to support the party for more then 15min. I'd also love to see a str do lock in party play. They will only be able to debuff.... but even that drains your mp like hell. Sure you can use cleric and lock for solo.... but then that removes your chances to join a party...

Here is a video found on these forums: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53645&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIMpjsewis8 <--- Video
This is what party play looks like.

For those who are in a bot infested server where party play is rare:

Are you really happy soloing on the time? Or do you like to get plved and be a nub your whole life? I know there are a number of people who do in fact, solo all the time. With bard, you level faster soloing as well. Keep the aggro mobs away from you, move faster mob to mob, and survive better. I really don't see the point in taking a different sub-class unless you change it later on. With bard, you can move around faster while in stealth and hit your target faster when jobbing or pvping. Bard also cost less SP then the other sub-classes to be honest. Also, i bet you get tired of leveling slowly. Hell i did before i did a server switch. Now i couldn't be happier.

Lets face it, even if you do take cleric... you still need to keep switching between healing cycle, bless, and RD. RD alone will not keep you alive. Many people tend to think that it will... but it wont. Sure there are slow mobs where you can easily run from them without speed buffs.... but those are in the higher lvs. What happens when you need to fight Mobs from lv 30-60? Most of the mobs along the way are fast. Except for a few mobs who hardly move at all. Even with Cleric, you still need to cycle between classes and rebuff... waste of time. But some people like it.

As a warlock, its as if you are only a Rogue out soloing. Lock only comes into play at the PvP sections. Some people love lock for the debuffs, but its not that great for soloing. You can get this later on, at the higher lvs no problem (unless you hate gapping like myself).

[daSLICK1]

i know ima lv 44 rogue and 95% of the pts i have been in i bard mana switch and rave melody are also good skills to get for paries use

[BloodyBlade]

why 20 bard? why not 10? ^^



I farked my build a bit, so its rogue/cleric/warrior/bard

Lul.

[Domination]

whats the point in my post if no1 argues

I want to see what others see. Hear their ideas.

[dmelsie]

well for the me the best is rogue/bard
need proof?
top rank only level 5(going level 6) thief in poseidon is a
rogue/bard <---- my most favorite thief and definitely the build i be going
i even see her rob so fast and gone in 60 seconds lol
(very far from the crime scene)
i also noticed if shes in thief party she usually the one get goods
then switch bard cast guard tambour (usually) then just ride ox
and not to forget this rogue/bard can even kill a chinese int with snowshield max on
and bard is so important when doing jobs
who dont like 100% movespeed lol
noise? yeah go thiefing in a place full of agresive mobs(kokoro,huns,spiders and others) lets see if u can easily summon a transpo if many mobs attack you
or u can stealth again if u summon a transpo
so think again
which is better rogue/bard or rogue/cleric or rogue/warlock
remember rogues shines best if they are thief
think of it stealth,speed,back stabbing, these are elements for a thief
have u played Thief 1 2 3? never winter nights?
i just can say all rogue/cleric are noobs they dont know how to harness the best potential of thier characters

[XemnasXD]

If i want speed i buy a potion. OMG now i have 100% speed+healing cycle+recovery divison+Bless+holy word

so anything you just did i can do better

[the_wicked]

rogue bard yourself to 90 FF, delvl bard add cleric >_>

(for the party rogue)

[Domination]

well for the me the best is rogue/bard
need proof?
top rank only level 5(going level 6) thief in poseidon is a
rogue/bard <---- my most favorite thief and definitely the build i be going
i even see her rob so fast and gone in 60 seconds lol
(very far from the crime scene)
i also noticed if shes in thief party she usually the one get goods
then switch bard cast guard tambour (usually) then just ride ox
and not to forget this rogue/bard can even kill a chinese int with snowshield max on
and bard is so important when doing jobs
who dont like 100% movespeed lol
noise? yeah go thiefing in a place full of agresive mobs(kokoro,huns,spiders and others) lets see if u can easily summon a transpo if many mobs attack you
or u can stealth again if u summon a transpo
so think again
which is better rogue/bard or rogue/cleric or rogue/warlock
remember rogues shines best if they are thief
think of it stealth,speed,back stabbing, these are elements for a thief
have u played Thief 1 2 3? never winter nights?
i just can say all rogue/cleric are noobs they dont know how to harness the best potential of thier characters

I dont agree with a single thing you just said, other then Rogue/Bard is best... Most of your information is wrong. Btw, Rogue doesn't shine its brightest as a thief, its how the player operates.

Well at my level, i really dont see the need for cleric. After numerous CTF events, Cape Battles, and other various PVP type scenarios. I do realize that you can go out and buy speed potions, however you will not always have potions. Maybe you will idk, but most ppl wont. Plus, i know you will probably get tired of paying 200k+ for each potion that lasts only 30min. With bard, however, you become more versatile. You always have speed made available to you when you need it. It doesnt cost any money -unless you use a mp pot every time you use MM-.

[bantragz]

Little piece of info I picked up from the forums:
Buff stay after weapon switch
1. Cleric
- Healing Cycle
- Bless
- Holy Word
- Recovery Division (that's the name I think, haven't gotten it yet)
- Body Blessing (Only stays on other players if you switch, you lose it yourself)

2. Bard
- Mana Cycle
- Moving March
- Noise
- Temptation

which lvl are these skillss?

[raphaell666]

which lvl are these skillss?

1. Cleric
- Healing Cycle 30
- Bless 24
- Holy Word 14
- Recovery Division (that's the name I think, haven't gotten it yet) 40
- Body Blessing (Only stays on other players if you switch, you lose it yourself) 30
- Soul blessing also only stays on others. Level 40.

2. Bard
- Mana Cycle I don't know.
- Moving March 10
- Noise 20
- Temptation I don't know.

[Intentions]

well for the me the best is rogue/bard
need proof?
top rank only level 5(going level 6) thief in poseidon is a
rogue/bard <---- my most favorite thief and definitely the build i be going
i even see her rob so fast and gone in 60 seconds lol
(very far from the crime scene)
i also noticed if shes in thief party she usually the one get goods
then switch bard cast guard tambour (usually) then just ride ox
and not to forget this rogue/bard can even kill a chinese int with snowshield max on
and bard is so important when doing jobs
who dont like 100% movespeed lol
noise? yeah go thiefing in a place full of agresive mobs(kokoro,huns,spiders and others) lets see if u can easily summon a transpo if many mobs attack you
or u can stealth again if u summon a transpo
so think again
which is better rogue/bard or rogue/cleric or rogue/warlock
remember rogues shines best if they are thief
think of it stealth,speed,back stabbing, these are elements for a thief
have u played Thief 1 2 3? never winter nights?
i just can say all rogue/cleric are noobs they dont know how to harness the best potential of thier characters

I dont agree with a single thing you just said, other then Rogue/Bard is best... Most of your information is wrong. Btw, Rogue doesn't shine its brightest as a thief, its how the player operates.

Well at my level, i really dont see the need for cleric. After numerous CTF events, Cape Battles, and other various PVP type scenarios. I do realize that you can go out and buy speed potions, however you will not always have potions. Maybe you will idk, but most ppl wont. Plus, i know you will probably get tired of paying 200k+ for each potion that lasts only 30min. With bard, however, you become more versatile. You always have speed made available to you when you need it. It doesnt cost any money -unless you use a mp pot every time you use MM-.

rogue/bard do shine as thief
and if the player operates any other way hes doing it wrong
and if you say not "wrong" then not the BEST way

[PocketSunshine]

rogue/bard do shine as thief
and if the player operates any other way hes doing it wrong
and if you say not "wrong" then not the BEST way

+1

They make awesome thieves.

[Desertor]

Cleric a great sub class to have as you can kill giants/party mobs your lvl. However DD/C-Ex will turn off while you cast bless/HC so you will end up hitting not as hard. DD/C-Ex also brings down your hp and deffence dramaticaly so you will die if you get piled. Casting Bless then DD/C-Ex will not make a huge impact on your phy deffence so if you get piled by 2 others mob, most likely you'll die. But if you're fast enough you MIGHT save yourself with Recovery/HC. I think tanking giant/party mobs is a warrior's job.

As a bard sub-class you can also get into parties becuz guard tumbour and dances are useful. IF you're in a good party the cleric can HC you and you'll be super at luring with moving march(WITHOUT DD/C-Ex), especialy with Fast Shot as it has 1 sec cool down. the warrior and taunt the mobs off you. this makes luring must faster. for soloing you can just cast Noise with DD/C-Ex and 1-2 hit monsters higher lvl then you. I tend to get more exp from normal mobs then in the time it takes to kill a giant mob with ppl KSing you.

This is only my thoughts about the 2 sub-classes

So i decided to pick BARD as my sub-class

[lucid4life]

I'm a Rogue/Cleric myself and so far I've been happy to have made this choice and never once doubted Bard would be a better mix because as we all know bard sub is basically:

1.Noise.
2.Moving march

Cleric sub's could have just chosen to buy a 100% Speed potion and easily keep up with those with bard sub.HOWEVER.

Now the cap is raising higher and higher and guess what, the speed of moving march is increasing as well.What this means for grinding is obvious.What this means for PVP however is a cause to ponder once more if Bard is really not better then cleric.

With the cap being raised any character without bard sub can get at max (not counting buffs or gear)a 100% Speed increase,Xemnas said this many times in the past,but what if the speed of moving march increases to 130% Speed increase or even higher if the cap goes beyond lvl 120?

That's Rogue/Cleric +100% speed increase(potion)
Rogue/Bard+130% speed increase(Buff)

It changes PVP because 30% not counting premium items etc is a substantial amount to use as a strategy.Hit and Run will be much easier as Classes without Bard sub can't keep up.Offcourse u'll be regarded as chicken but still u can get huge damage in before going face2face.

I havent changed as of yet,I love the cleric sub too much for that,but is there anybody who can think of multiple situations in which a Rogue/Bard outshines at 130% speed increase outshines a Rogue/Cleric with 100% speed increase?

[Kori0129]

I don't understand the people who say that "bard is good, because you can hit'n run". Lol, just switch to dagger, turn on scud, and you can outrun anyone. (and maybe use 50% potions, if you are really out of money )


something else :

hm... if I remmember well, at lvl100 scud gives +197% speed
well, lets see
+197 scud
+110 swing march (with a cleric sub, you can just ask for it lol)
+20 robe (lvl1 set is enough)
-----------
+327% speed . (you will be running as fast as the silk transports)

Oh... turn on berzerk. "I think I can fly... I think I can fly..."

[lucid4life]

hm... if I remmember well, at lvl100 scud gives +197% speed
well, lets see
+197 scud
+110 swing march (with a cleric sub, you can just ask for it lol)
+20 robe (lvl1 set is enough)

Well ur right in the sense that temporarily u can outrun bard.But that's like what,15 seconds with a huge time to regain the possibility?

+197 scud =15 seconds
+110 Asking for Moving march is out of the question.
+20 Robe is something a bard can aqquire as well.

I gotta admit the one big reason I stuck to Cleric sub is for this same reason of scud but u exaggerate the greatness of it.All your other points are invalid.Scud's great weakness is in it's duration of 15 seconds.After that u'll be a turtle to a Rogue/Bard with 130% moving march(Im not talking about this cap but at 120 cap+)

[Kori0129]

hm... if I remmember well, at lvl100 scud gives +197% speed
well, lets see
+197 scud
+110 swing march (with a cleric sub, you can just ask for it lol)
+20 robe (lvl1 set is enough)

Well ur right in the sense that temporarily u can outrun bard.But that's like what,15 seconds with a huge time to regain the possibility?

+197 scud =15 seconds
+110 Asking for Moving march is out of the question.
+20 Robe is something a bard can aqquire as well.

I gotta admit the one big reason I stuck to Cleric sub is for this same reason of scud but u exaggerate the greatness of it.All your other points are invalid.Scud's great weakness is in it's duration of 15 seconds.After that u'll be a turtle to a Rogue/Bard with 130% moving march(Im not talking about this cap but at 120 cap+)

For a rogue/bard , a pvp cannot be longer than 15 seconds, as they are easy to kill if they are reached. As a cleric you can tank, you can kill, and if you are in trouble then you just switch to cleric rod+shield, which makes your healing spells healing twice as much + cycle, and you regain full health in 5 sec. If your enemy is running away, then dagger , scud, and prick

edit : oh, and the thing what I calculated there wasn't connected to the rest of my post. It was like a different post, I just didn't want to double post

[iscared]

Bumping this thread cuz its intresting.



Im new to having rogue/bard but I use to have a pure rogue lvl 50 that did alright, I think bard is better since you save alot more money on drugs.
Cleric does having healing cycle and stuff but in party play there is always a friggin cleric and not always a bard! also rogues are not supose to tank, there just for supporting the tanker in dealing high damage, fast.

I must say if you where to be dagger/cleric it would be alright but remmber rogue ain't for tanking.
xbow/bard is ownage because of KD/KB you won't even get hit in most pvp battles or in party play which means bard is useful since you can run away faster then them if they get close to you then go into stealth regroup and fire awaY.

[KillerOrca]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't holyword screw warlock over?

[raphaell666]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't holyword screw warlock over?

It doesn't exactly completely 'screw' the warlock over , it just makes him unable to cast some skills on it's enemy. A skilled warlock can still fight against someone with holy word. But still, the holy spell/word screws most warlocks.

[KillerOrca]

Well, I'm a rogue/warlock now and I'm thinking of dlvling it for cleric. I pvped with my friend the other day who is a rogue/cleric and he beat me almost everytime with holyword, i couldnt debuff him at all. So Should I dlvl it or will warlock skills become better at higher lvls? (I'm still lvl 35 btw)

[raphaell666]

Well, I'm a rogue/warlock now and I'm thinking of dlvling it for cleric. I pvped with my friend the other day who is a rogue/cleric and he beat me almost everytime with holyword, i couldnt debuff him at all. So Should I dlvl it or will warlock skills become better at higher lvls? (I'm still lvl 35 btw)

You cant debuff someone with cleric FF'ed to your level. There still are some skills from warlock that you could easily use to beat your friend. A skilled rogue/warlock should be able to beat a rogue/cleric. Warlock will be harder to use anyways. Do whatever you want, if you want to delevel warlock because cleric is easier to use (and better at some points), then do as you wish. Neither one is better, it utterly depends on personal preference.

By the way, warlock gets better at higher levels, but so does cleric; as any other build does. All builds get better, though hmm, they specialize in different ways.

[KillerOrca]

Nah, I'll stay warlock. Plus Holyword might get reduced to 50% instead of 100% in later caps.

There still are some skills from warlock that you could easily use to beat your friend.

Like? I could only stun him.

[raphaell666]

There still are some skills from warlock that you could easily use to beat your friend.

Like? I could only stun him.

Disease, panic, bleed and stun are the ones I can remember right now. With only stun btw you should be able to kill him, unless he is blessed or with healing cycle. Also, at higher levels you'll have multiple stun skills and reflect.

[KillerOrca]

Bleed? But isnt that for int warlocks?

[raphaell666]

Bleed? But isnt that for int warlocks?

When successfully casted on your enemy it reduces your enemies defense by 20% (or something near that, I don't remember how much), why would it be only for int warlocks? Because it's a DoT skill? lol it's even better if it's a DoT because it annoys them more and even if they heal it's effect, it might be recasted right after without you doing anything. Dull and Bleed dots are excellent to use even by pure STRs. They just are not so useful in short fights (most rogue fights are pretty short), they are better used by warrior/warlocks because their fights last somewhat longer. In your case, bleed wouldn't really help afaik. Just test your skills and you should extremely easily be able to figure out how to use your character.

[KillerOrca]

So Warlock is generally better than cleric in pvp?

[raphaell666]

So Warlock is generally better than cleric in pvp?

No. A better player is generally better at PvP, if you now what I mean. It doesn't matter what build it is, simply learn how to use it and you'll probably do good, as long as you are not messing things up. Do not ask about the "better" build, find one that you like and go for it. If you simply search and take the "best" build, I doubt you'll get much far. Also, silkroad is not all about 1vs1 pvpinng. If you go for the "uber cape build" you'll probably get bored easily, unless you really like your char (which is not likely to happen in this case).

[KillerOrca]

Well, I am gonna be Cleric. Warlock dies too easily.
Thanks for the answers anyway.