America's Economy and the Gulfstates

[heroo]

Dammmn, just saw a edcational serie about the troubles in America's economy on TV.

You guys are really in some nasty sh!t, and the people who are ''helping'' out of these problems, are mostly from the Gulfstates.

So basically, they are taking over your economy.

Just look at Citibank. If it wasn't for that Saudi Prince, it would be bankrupped by now.

/discuss

[Norain_]

USA is overrated

[Barotix]

America no longer controls her destiny. If we want control back we must rock the establishment and show our disgust with the current state of things. If you want change don't vote for the socialist fraud or the warmongering maniac. Make the change. Stand up and let your voice be heard!

Abolish the federal reserve. It's blunders have done no good in the 70 years of it's existence. It caused the recession that led to the depression, it weakened our dollar, it hastened the collapse of the two biggest American banking firms on wall street, and it will be our downfall. The federal government should not be able to print money freely. Remember what happened in Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Spoiler!

You have 6 choices this election:
Chuck Baldwin
Bob Barr
Cynthia McKinney
Ralph Nader
And of Course: McBama.

Even if none of the third party candidates win you still have made an effort toward change.

Make a silent protest!

Liberty & Justice for all.

[Blurred]

America no longer controls her destiny. If we want control back we must rock the establishment and show our disgust with the current state of things. If you want change don't vote for the socialist fraud or the warmongering maniac. Make the change. Stand up and let your voice be heard!

Abolish the federal reserve. It's blunders have done no good in the 70 years of it's existence. It caused the recession that led to the depression, it weakened our dollar, it hastened the collapse of the two biggest American banking firms on wall street. The federal government should not be able to print money freely. Remember what happened in Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Liberty & Justice for all.

Well said

[MrFudge]

good job barotix now lock the thread cuz thats all that needed to be said.

[heroo]

Baro, wish I could understand you fully lol.

fock my english handicaps

[Snoopy]

America no longer controls her destiny. If we want control back we must rock the establishment and show our disgust with the current state of things. If you want change don't vote for the socialist fraud or the warmongering maniac. Make the change. Stand up and let your voice be heard!

Abolish the federal reserve. It's blunders have done no good in the 70 years of it's existence. It caused the recession that led to the depression, it weakened our dollar, it hastened the collapse of the two biggest American banking firms on wall street, and it will be our downfall. The federal government should not be able to print money freely. Remember what happened in Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Spoiler!

You have 6 choices this election:
Chuck Baldwin
Bob Barr
Cynthia McKinney
Ralph Nader
And of Course: McBama.

Even if none of the third party candidates win you still have made an effort toward change.

Make a silent protest!

Liberty & Justice for all.

To make it easier for you Hero, to my understanding it basically said that:

America can't control where she is going. If they want control back, they need to show they hate where they are going, and the current way things are. If you want this chance do not vote for the socialist fraud or warmongering maniac. Make the change blah blah, (I'm guessing by voting, seeing as it isn't illegal to not vote).

Get rid of the federal reserve, it's never done any good. *list of reasons why*

Governments shouldn't be able to print money, remember what happened to Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Hope that makes more sense, you probably had the idea in the first place, seeing as you made this topic =D

Snoopy,

[XemnasXD]

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

explain how reinstating the gold standard will bring our economy back up to a level where we can compete with EU, China, and Saudi Royalty. No offense but this sounds like a re-hash of the Ron Paul stuff and while he had some good ideas most of his followers didn't have a clue about international economics.

Now explain how the gov't and American society itself will be able to support itself without the money gained from income tax....

Again it sounded good when Ron Paul said it and for some reason it should make sense but when you actually think about the cost of the transition and the transition itself you see an entirely different story.

So in YOUR own words explain to me how these things who it would be possible to change these things and put our economy back on an international level without ushering in total chaos and after that explain hat the changes would accomplish.

tbh you sound like a member of the revolution and while it sounds good i don't think you have a solid idea of what your talking about....so please elaborate. Don't take this as an insult take it as a challenge....

[Sharp324]

America no longer controls her destiny. If we want control back we must rock the establishment and show our disgust with the current state of things. If you want change don't vote for the socialist fraud or the warmongering maniac. Make the change. Stand up and let your voice be heard!

Abolish the federal reserve. It's blunders have done no good in the 70 years of it's existence. It caused the recession that led to the depression, it weakened our dollar, it hastened the collapse of the two biggest American banking firms on wall street, and it will be our downfall. The federal government should not be able to print money freely. Remember what happened in Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Spoiler!

You have 6 choices this election:
Chuck Baldwin
Bob Barr
Cynthia McKinney
Ralph Nader
And of Course: McBama.

Even if none of the third party candidates win you still have made an effort toward change.

Make a silent protest!

Liberty & Justice for all.

To make it easier for you Hero, to my understanding it basically said that:

America can't control where she is going. If they want control back, they need to show they hate where they are going, and the current way things are. If you want this chance do not vote for the socialist fraud or warmongering maniac. Make the change blah blah, (I'm guessing by voting, seeing as it isn't illegal to not vote).

Get rid of the federal reserve, it's never done any good. *list of reasons why*

Governments shouldn't be able to print money, remember what happened to Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Hope that makes more sense, you probably had the idea in the first place, seeing as you made this topic =D

Snoopy,

Wouldn't be too mellow about it, you know the US economy is tied to Australis right, remember our Great depression, it hit Australia just as hard.

[Barotix]

[...] the gold standard
remove that unconstitutional income tax[...]

Don't take this as an insult take it as a challenge....

Xemnas the reason I didn't elaborate on either of those solutions to our economic woes is because my understanding of how they would aid us is not sound. I can tell you what I understand:

AFAIK the gold standard gives the dollar a strong and solid backing. It isn't vulnerable to artificial inflation and puts a limit on deficit spending. This is turn puts a check on Government spending and increases the value of our dollar. How this works? I don't know yet but the internet is at my finger-tips. I do know that the fiat money our system runs on today is very unreliable and will only lead to our downfall. One turns to the gold standard because any other method just won't do. Ask yourself why Lehman collapsed and why Merill Lynch is doomed to follow.

The income tax (as stated above) is unconstitutional. Lincoln enacted the income tax to fund his military expenditures despite it's questionable nature. Many people raise the question: "How would abolishing the IRS help us and where would the government get it's necessary funds from?" Well there is another way, one that we used when this country was founded, one that worked well before Lincoln created that unconstitutional income tax, and one that we currently use today. Tax Imports, Exports, and purchased goods. One should be taxed based off how much they spend not how much they make. Congress can set the rates at which imports/exports are taxed and States would continue to set the rate at which purchased goods are taxed. One could make it two-fold by taking a portion of State income and passing it to the federal Government so it could function properly. It may be hard to imagine but the National government was not meant to be as powerful as it is today. I could type more but I think that is enough for now.

For me it is more or less a question of principle.

[...]think about the cost of the transition and the transition itself [...]

What would be that cost?

without ushering in total chaos

How would that cause chaos?

We have a basic choice to make: Continue relying on the fiat money that has done us no good or go back to the gold standard that puts natural limits on the government's ability to spend and print money. Socialism is not my cup-o-tea. Another suggestion that I support adamantly is going back to the free market.

EDIT: It's interesting to note that the gold standard, abolishing the IRS, abolishing the federal reserve, and relying on a free market all tie in with on another. They increase liberty, prosperity, and good for the individual (which in turn produces good for the whole.) Our current system is very socialist(need to define term).

[Squirt]

I'm not good with politics but does this mean a possible 2nd great depression?

[Barotix]

I'm not good with politics but does this mean a possible 2nd great depression?

It will be far worse.

[Squirt]

I'm not good with politics but does this mean a possible 2nd great depression?

It will be far worse.

Why the **** does it have to be my generation -.-

can't it wait until I'm like 60 or something!

Isn't Obama calling for a Stimulant pack if he gets elected won't that help?

[exality]

Didnt read, too fkin long. My father and sister work at citibank and its Farking crazy how hard it is to call citibank and actually reach someone in america. 2cents...all i have fer nao

[Barotix]

I'm not good with politics but does this mean a possible 2nd great depression?

It will be far worse.

Why the **** does it have to be my generation -.-

can't it wait until I'm like 60 or something!

Isn't Obama calling for a Stimulant pack if he gets elected won't that help?

Wealth redistribution only stalls the inevitable course we have put our country on. There is still time for change but the socialist reforms Mr. Obama plans to bring just won't cut it. As long as we keep relying on fiat money and government bailouts to "fix" (read: stall) our economic woes things will only get worse down the line. Let the market resolve the problems. Delaying the inevitable only makes the final crash much more devastating and irreversible.

Small Government
Free Market
A Republic
The Constitution

Our founders were not fools. It's funny that the anti-federalist in their anti-federalist papers predicted the problems that are occurring today. The issues the bill of rights did not cover are now coming back to haunt us.

[XemnasXD]

both China and the EU do not use the gold standard and their economies are doing great. The same goes for India. Flat money is not destroying our economy our way of life is destroying our economy which is why simple reverting to the gold standard and and cutting taxes won't save us. The American way of life is buy as cheap as possible because thats all we can afford. While someone in china or india making $7.15 an hour would be happy the cost of living here is much much greater. Thanks to our need for benefits, unions, and our high cost of living, employing US citizens is much more expensive than employing overseas works BUT thanks to our refusal to go the extra mile and buy US goods companies that don't offer lower prices by outsourcing work can't compete and go under. 7.15 an hour is not enough to live the current American lifestlye so people have to cut corners whereever possible. The cycle should be obvious at this point and no amount of gold standard will fix and cutting taxes will not bring jobs back over here.

The economy needs a complete overhaul and actual long term economic plans. Companies need to be brought back to the US, minimum wage needs to be raised, union policy needs to be checked, less free market for socialized industries, etc, etc, etc. Fixing the economy is not a 2 step plan. Cutting the income tax could help, but it would be better to change the use of that money for better education and free healthcare. Ron Paul is a republican and while i disagree with many of the things they stand for the thing i disagree with most is their lvl of conservatism. Gov't should WORK for their people not just tell them how to get from point A->B and not care if they make it.

[Squirt]

I wonder....

Does the war in Iraq have anything to do with the crisis?
Because I read somewhere it is costing the US 250+ million a week to fight the war?

[Barotix]

Like the good doctor said: We must first change the mentality of the American People (paraphrased). Xemnas, the government should work for the people but I don't think they should work in the manner you described. Another problem is that the system used in EU, CH, and India just isn't compatible with our republic. It isn't only just returning to the gold standard. There are other fixes that tie in with it. The government should work in the interest of the people but it should not work for the people. Abolishing the fed, irs, going back to the gold standard, and removing socialism from our society will result in Smaller Government. Why do you seek to make it larger? This is America, not france, china, or sweden.

We have to return to our constitutional roots and stop going down the democratic-socialist path so many Americans envision.

Does the war in Iraq have anything to do with the crisis?

We're in Iraq because we can print an unlimited amount of money. A fiat system is a system that promotes socialism and despotism.

[ThatBluePerson]

A prophet foresaw the day that Egypt would fall, the day that Rome would fall, the day that the Persian Empire would fall, and also the day that United States & Great Britain would fall.

The Egyptian Empire fell, the Roman Empire fell, the Persian Empire fell, and eventually the U.S. & Britain will fall.

Everything comes to an end. The end is near.

/Discuss

[XemnasXD]

The argument of Smaller or Larger Gov't is the whole reason why the party system was formed. Which side the founding fathers supported depends on who your looking at because TBH the founding fathers were more interested in money and the protection of their assets from the people than the interest of the people themselves. That being said I believe that if a Gov't is necessary and represented by the people why should it not be as large as possible, that only means that the people have as much control as possible. No one gets anywhere working by themselves, free markets and tax breaks are why 10% of the population controls 80% of the worlds wealth. Is that really representative of the people whose back breaking labor hold up that kind of work pushing themselves further into poverty while the rich get richer.

As i said before the gold standard will do nothing. Our Economy was booming even after we removed it, putting it back in place will only set us back. The polices and changes that i mentioned are the types of things that will bring our economy back, keep it strong, and allow it to get back to a competitive international level. Those types of changes would not be possible under conservative rule and laissez faire policy, they wouldn't be possible under a gov't that that has a hands off approach with our economy but free reign with our tax money and our military...its not representative of the people, small gov't does not represent the people, it has and always will represent the group of people who wish to continue their current plutocracy with minimal interference from an authority higher than money, name a strong Gov't representative of the people.

[Xander]

America needs to quit spending millions/billions of dollars to bail out other countries *like Georgia* we keep sending aid to people who don't give a crap about the U.S unless we're helping them win a war or giving them free stuff! It's dumb we can't keep doing this.

[XemnasXD]

America needs to quit spending millions/billions of dollars to bail out other countries *like Georgia* we keep sending aid to people who don't give a crap about the U.S unless we're helping them win a war or giving them free stuff! It's dumb we can't keep doing this.

lololol check the budget for US foreign aid...its getting smaller and smaller the gov't probably spends more on toilet paper than it did helping Georgia...

[Xander]

America needs to quit spending millions/billions of dollars to bail out other countries *like Georgia* we keep sending aid to people who don't give a crap about the U.S unless we're helping them win a war or giving them free stuff! It's dumb we can't keep doing this.

lololol check the budget for US foreign aid...its getting smaller and smaller the gov't probably spends more on toilet paper than it did helping Georgia...

True....but lets be honest whats more important? toilet paper or giving away money to Georgia?
+ leaves just don't do the trick like they used to and you can't have an itchy butt while signing a check to Georgia now can you?

[Snoopy]

America no longer controls her destiny. If we want control back we must rock the establishment and show our disgust with the current state of things. If you want change don't vote for the socialist fraud or the warmongering maniac. Make the change. Stand up and let your voice be heard!

Abolish the federal reserve. It's blunders have done no good in the 70 years of it's existence. It caused the recession that led to the depression, it weakened our dollar, it hastened the collapse of the two biggest American banking firms on wall street, and it will be our downfall. The federal government should not be able to print money freely. Remember what happened in Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Spoiler!

You have 6 choices this election:
Chuck Baldwin
Bob Barr
Cynthia McKinney
Ralph Nader
And of Course: McBama.

Even if none of the third party candidates win you still have made an effort toward change.

Make a silent protest!

Liberty & Justice for all.

To make it easier for you Hero, to my understanding it basically said that:

America can't control where she is going. If they want control back, they need to show they hate where they are going, and the current way things are. If you want this chance do not vote for the socialist fraud or warmongering maniac. Make the change blah blah, (I'm guessing by voting, seeing as it isn't illegal to not vote).

Get rid of the federal reserve, it's never done any good. *list of reasons why*

Governments shouldn't be able to print money, remember what happened to Germany?

Reinstate the Gold standard.
Remove that unconstitutional income tax:

End the era of Fascist Socialist left wing nut jobs running our economy into the ground.

Hope that makes more sense, you probably had the idea in the first place, seeing as you made this topic =D

Snoopy,

Wouldn't be too mellow about it, you know the US economy is tied to Australis right, remember our Great depression, it hit Australia just as hard.

I was simply restating Baro's post in a more, simple form.

Thank you for telling me that the US and Australia's economy are linked -.- I totally had no idea of this.

I'm still all a little bit confused as to where this is going. I've been recently taking interest in the problems that USA is having, though I couldn't work out why it was happening. One minute we're basically dollar for dollar with the US, then we went down. Yet major banks and mortgage companies in the US are declaring bankruptcy

[maxietheboss]

@heroo, was it on nederland 2 , if so i watched it too for a bit yesterday.

it was funny to see what all the people had to say about it

[DeathBeforeDishonor]

America is failing, I mean those 2 big banks or what ever are
getting raped hard. Eh I don't live there though, I like Australia

[MrPharmacist]

America aint all that!!

through out history we have had a number of great world powers that have made thier mark in the history books!

The only mark that America has made on history is due to it's own internal conflict....and considering that it was only founded by imigrents a few hundred years ago...can you even call it your country?

On a Global scale USA = Fail after Fail

Unitet Kingdom...small as it is ....we owned half of the known world at one point...including most of the US.

[heroo]

@heroo, was it on nederland 2 , if so i watched it too for a bit yesterday.

it was funny to see what all the people had to say about it

yeah, I never watch it tho, but when I checked what it was about, I caught my interest

[Squirt]

America needs to quit spending millions/billions of dollars to bail out other countries *like Georgia* we keep sending aid to people who don't give a crap about the U.S unless we're helping them win a war or giving them free stuff! It's dumb we can't keep doing this.

lololol check the budget for US foreign aid...its getting smaller and smaller the gov't probably spends more on toilet paper than it did helping Georgia...

True....but lets be honest whats more important? toilet paper or giving away money to Georgia?
+ leaves just don't do the trick like they used to and you can't have an itchy butt while signing a check to Georgia now can you?

Bastard made me lol


US does try to Mother the other countries

[Barotix]

Xemnas the founding fathers were selfless in their endeavors. They would have been richer and safer under the king. In a large Government the people are not truly represented. Read the anti-federalist papers. You share many views with Hamilton on this subject. The parties that formed before our time were over this very subject. It was large government vs small government. Because of the system we use, a small government does protect the interest of the people. It also appears I must define my terms. When people speak of a small government they mean one who's powers are limited. As it is now our executive branch is the most powerful. The legislative, the voice of the people, is a subordinate to the white house, and the judicial is incompetent. That is so far from what our founders planned. We might as well stop claiming to be a republic and become an oligarchy under incompetent leaders. In this country when someone is sworn in they swear to uphold the constitution. If they upheld the constitution we would not be in the pickle we're in right now. What you're angry about are those leaders we elect that haven't been upholding the constitution and the reason this occurred was because of Hamilton and Madison (the men that share your views). The "anti-federalist" requested that they make provisions in the constitution that clearly defined the powers of each branch to prevent executive abuse, Hamilton and his group of federalist used fear to trick the country into signing that flawed parchment. As government grows the rights of the people are slowly but surely stolen. Fiat money (the fed) has done no good. This is absurd. It is not simply the gold standard, there is more to it. No, our economy was not booming. It was an illusion of a boom that led to a burst. This country was not built to run on fiat money. The fed leads to bubbles, fake booms, artificial inflation, and inevitably financial collapse. When the collapse is on the horizon the government interferes and tries to prevent it. All they are doing is buying more time. The problem can only get worse. 1920-1922 there was a depression that history overlooked because the market was allowed to solve it. FDR and Hoover come in then interfere with the market ushering in the great depression. The fed creates our fiat money and this large Government has succeeded in not representing the people, not protecting our interest, and not preserving our liberties. Factions are inevitable, Xemans, that is fact. You cannot destroy them without stifling individual liberty. This is America.

Read my links Xemnas.
are Canada&USA communist?
Socialism in the United States
More Links:
"In Government we Trust?", pt 1-3:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

The government cannot guarantee food or water or health care or any other material good because there isn’t an unlimited supply of these things. The government can only do its best to protect life, liberty, and property, which are things you already have. Socialism is a failure because it is unrealistic about what government is able to do.

I think it's time for the congressmen in this country to be impeached and replaced with constitutional leaders. Enough. Is. Enough. You can't fix a little socialism with more socialism. It isn't the failure of capitalism that has led to this problem, it is a failure at socialism and fascism. End the era of fascist socialist war mongering imbeciles running our economy into the ground.

[...] And, it would not force people to use only a currency which it defines and controls (I speak of this separately, since this seems to be of special interest to you). This is important, because if the people are forced to use such a currency, they cannot really own anything. Imagine if I owned the printing press for a particular currency, we’ll call them widgetbucks, so that no one could print widgetbucks but me. Imagine also that there were a law that anyone not accepting widgetbucks, or found to be conducting commerce in a medium other than widgetbucks, would be thrown in jail (this is precisely the law we have regarding dollars). I would then own everything, would I not? Whatever I desired, I would need only to print up enough widgetbucks to “buy” it. Indeed, to steal the savings of the entire populace, all I would need to do is print up enough widgetbucks to render their measly holdings worthless.

It is not important that we return to a “gold standard”, and in fact, this is not what Paul is advocating. Just give us monetary freedom. Allow people to conduct commerce in whatever medium they desire. If we are not permitted even this freedom — if in this country we cannot make our own choices monetarily, if we are forced to work 50% of our time for the government, if we are surveiled and our communications recorded, if our new businesses are buried in red tape, if we are fined or jailed if we eat trans-fats, drink unpasteurized milk, allow smoking in our restaurants, or make any of a multitude more peaceful lifestyle decisions, if each of our kids is born already owing over $200,000 in obligations, and the federal government owns more than half of all mortgages nationwide, we must ask ourselves what business we have calling ourselves free.

I have come to the conclusion that the right thing is not to force you to be moral, but to behave morally myself. I have come to the conclusion that the right thing is not to forcibly take your money, but to support worthy causes myself. I have come to the conclusion that the right thing is not to forcibly take your time, but to volunteer myself. I have come to the conclusion that the right thing is not to force you to behave in a way that I consider safe and reasonable, but to behave safely and reasonably myself. [...]