Do you guys believe in god?

[Barotix]

So I guess I finally stumped the great Barotix

No, I haven't been stumped. You're just not worth it. Arguing with Grandpa is fun, arguing with Blurred is fun, arguing with Stress is fun, but you are not there yet. AFAIK most people know that these myths, legends, and deductions preceded Islam. I'm not going to do the legwork and then have you quote another passage from your holy book in defense. It's trivial, a waste of time, and not fun. I don't argue or discuss because I have a grudge. I do it because I usually learn and teach in the process of the discussions. I love learning and spreading knowledge. Even though you claim to be Agnostic you carry yourself like a Muslim.

[non ego man]

Hehe...nice thread.

And just as a point of reference, the "red rose" color of a supernova is artificial. In fact, color is added to all space photography to give it depth and volume. The blues and greens and reds you see in National Geographic or on Star Trek are all added by artists. So if Mo was talking about actual supernova's being red, he kinda got it wrong.

@Barotix...when speaking with logic to those of faith, please recall this prayer:

Grant me then serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

[izmeister]

So I guess I finally stumped the great Barotix

No, I haven't been stumped. You're just not worth it. Arguing with Grandpa is fun, arguing with Blurred is fun, arguing with Stress is fun, but you are not there yet. AFAIK most people know that these myths, legends, and deductions preceded Islam. I'm not going to do the legwork and then have you quote another passage from your holy book in defense. It's trivial, a waste of time, and not fun. I don't argue or discuss because I have a grudge. I do it because I usually learn and teach in the process of the discussions. I love learning and spreading knowledge. Even though you claim to be Agnostic you carry yourself like a Muslim.

If you find a reliable source telling me Greek philosophers (or anyone else before Muhammad) knew about the isotopes of iron , I will not waste your time anymore.

[Barotix]

So I guess I finally stumped the great Barotix

No, I haven't been stumped. You're just not worth it. Arguing with Grandpa is fun, arguing with Blurred is fun, arguing with Stress is fun, but you are not there yet. AFAIK most people know that these myths, legends, and deductions preceded Islam. I'm not going to do the legwork and then have you quote another passage from your holy book in defense. It's trivial, a waste of time, and not fun. I don't argue or discuss because I have a grudge. I do it because I usually learn and teach in the process of the discussions. I love learning and spreading knowledge. Even though you claim to be Agnostic you carry yourself like a Muslim.

If you find a reliable source telling me Greek philosophers (or anyone else before Muhammad) knew about the isotopes of iron , I will not waste your time anymore.

http://molaire1.club.fr/e_histoire.html

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

Google "Greek atom model" for moar.

[non ego man]

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

I thought that was common knowledge. First year college stuff. Well, if it ends the discussion, good thing then.

[Barotix]

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

I thought that was common knowledge. First year college stuff. Well, if it ends the discussion, good thing then.

I learned it in middle school.

[izmeister]

No, I haven't been stumped. You're just not worth it. Arguing with Grandpa is fun, arguing with Blurred is fun, arguing with Stress is fun, but you are not there yet. AFAIK most people know that these myths, legends, and deductions preceded Islam. I'm not going to do the legwork and then have you quote another passage from your holy book in defense. It's trivial, a waste of time, and not fun. I don't argue or discuss because I have a grudge. I do it because I usually learn and teach in the process of the discussions. I love learning and spreading knowledge. Even though you claim to be Agnostic you carry yourself like a Muslim.

If you find a reliable source telling me Greek philosophers (or anyone else before Muhammad) knew about the isotopes of iron , I will not waste your time anymore.

http://molaire1.club.fr/e_histoire.html

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

Google "Greek atom model" for moar.

I know Greeks knew about atoms. They did not know about isotopes, which were discovered in 1913 by Frederick Soddy, which is what I have been stressing for the last few posts.

[Reise]

"we Verily sent our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed(descended) iron, wherein is mighty power and many uses for mankind,, and that Allah may know who helpth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty."

Show me where in this quote you see Allah describing anything about Iron other than that he revealed it to man.

[Barotix]

You sure? I remember reading that somewhere. When I read the quote my interpretation was: "Iron has many uses, my god told me." Then you mentioned isotopes and I'm like what? He must be confusing them with atoms.

[izmeister]

"we Verily sent our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed(descended) iron, wherein is mighty power and many uses for mankind,, and that Allah may know who helpth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty."

Show me where in this quote you see Allah describing anything about Iron other than that he revealed it to man.

Read the entire post plz

[Reise]

Read the entire post plz

The entire quote other than that is speculation.

[non ego man]

...isotopes, which were discovered in 1913 by Frederick Soddy.

I thought they were discovered by Mohamed, like...before that? Now you're confusing me.

@Barotix...you're just a smartypants then, ain't ya?

[izmeister]

Read the entire post plz

The entire quote other than that is speculation.

Isn't the big bang theory speculation?

Anyway, that post was referring to the coincidence that iron was in a verse that's numbers told it amu and stable isotope.

[Reise]

Isn't the big bang theory speculation?

Yeah, it is. That's why it's a theory.

[izmeister]

Isn't the big bang theory speculation?

Yeah, it is. That's why it's a theory.

So that means we are both arguing each other with...faith.

One side has faith that a random explosion created everything , while one side has faith a Deity created everything.

Meaning that this topic is pointless if you think about it.

[Barotix]

Isn't the big bang theory speculation?

Yeah, it is. That's why it's a theory.

So that means we are both arguing each other with...faith.


Meaning that this topic is pointless if you think about it.

A theory in science is not the same as our theory:
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/
http://www.fsteiger.com/theory.html

@Non-ego, when I was younger I watched the Discovery and History channel more than Cartoon Network.

[Reise]

So that means we are both arguing each other with...faith.


Meaning that this topic is pointless if you think about it.

Well, no. I'm just saying I don't believe in coincidence being true, and I also don't believe in theories being true.

You can't really base the iron argument on that coincidence. I'm sure if Allah was aware of our future measuring and categorizing of iron on the table of elements he would say so. He wouldn't have it listed coincidentally in a verse like that, leaving us to patch it together as if he really DID know about it.

[XemnasXD]

No, I haven't been stumped. You're just not worth it. Arguing with Grandpa is fun, arguing with Blurred is fun, arguing with Stress is fun, but you are not there yet. AFAIK most people know that these myths, legends, and deductions preceded Islam. I'm not going to do the legwork and then have you quote another passage from your holy book in defense. It's trivial, a waste of time, and not fun. I don't argue or discuss because I have a grudge. I do it because I usually learn and teach in the process of the discussions. I love learning and spreading knowledge. Even though you claim to be Agnostic you carry yourself like a Muslim.

If you find a reliable source telling me Greek philosophers (or anyone else before Muhammad) knew about the isotopes of iron , I will not waste your time anymore.

http://molaire1.club.fr/e_histoire.html

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

Google "Greek atom model" for moar.

another error. The Indians had a philosophy that everything was made up of smaller things. This carried over into greek society latter on but this was only a theory and not widely accepted belief nor was it solid knowledge. To say the Greeks knew of atoms is a gross overstatement. At the same time there were several other theories on what things were made of that were more widely accepted by more philosophers. A few greeks had a theory that they took from Indians and played with the idea. It would be like me coming up with a theory of why there must be extraterrestrial life and 1000 years latter we find out i was on the right track, that doesn't mean i proved or even knew extraterrestrial life existed it just means i played around with an idea that might have been true.


and watching discovery channel doesn't make you smart same with the history channel...in fact any channel that says George Washington was an amazing General loses some credibility...

[Barotix]

If you find a reliable source telling me Greek philosophers (or anyone else before Muhammad) knew about the isotopes of iron , I will not waste your time anymore.

http://molaire1.club.fr/e_histoire.html

Greeks knew of atoms. They used logical deduction.

Google "Greek atom model" for moar.

1]another error. The Indians had a philosophy that everything was made up of smaller things. This carried over into greek society latter on but this was only a theory and not widely accepted belief nor was it solid knowledge. To say the Greeks knew of atoms is a gross overstatement. At the same time there were several other theories on what things were made of that were more widely accepted by more philosophers. A few greeks had a theory that they took from Indians and played with the idea. It would be like me coming up with a theory of why there must be extraterrestrial life and 1000 years latter we find out i was on the right track, that doesn't mean i proved or even knew extraterrestrial life existed it just means i played around with an idea that might have been true.


2]and watching discovery channel doesn't make you smart same with the history channel

1]"Greeks knew of atoms." I should be careful of the way I phrase my sentences. I should have posted, "They speculated about the atom's existence." That's a mouthful, most people get the idea but you don't want people getting the wrong idea. A good cause.
2]I was between 10 and 12. Discovery channel talked about Guns, and Aliens. History channel talked about wars and Samurai. I was just letting non-ego know that I saw it there in some documentary. Yes, I was one weird kid. Anti-Christ Documentary > DBZ.

EDIT: Smart wouldn't be the right word. The proper term would be Knowledgeable.

[/Pi]

Pardon me for breaking your isotopes conversation...

Greetings Prophet Izaach,
Your hope that naturalism can provide better explanations than "God did it" is only possible if one is highly selective of the evidence viewed.

Do you have a link to empirical evidence (proof, not involving theory) showing how cross species evolution happened? Philosophical Naturalism can be defined as "there ain't no god, no-way, no-shape, no-how" so any teleological, design based, anthropomorphic-quasi-natural explanations would (naturally) be prohibited.

Terms like "empirical evidence" are certainly easy to bandy about, anyone can claim possession of such things but... if I were to allege that creationists had discovered empirical evidence of the existence of God you could reasonably reply "YouTube or it didn't happen." If you choose to reply to my challenge kindly provide any empirical evidence that can withstand the rigorous examination you would bring to bear.

~Granps

Greetings Granps,

No. I don't have any empirical evidence chronicling the process of speciation of a multicellular organism. It takes a tremendous amount of time to observe the multiple repeated processes that comprise the speciation of X species to Y species. What I can provide are evidences of these individual processes (from different species) replicated in the lab and/or observed directly in nature. From here, it can be induced that these mechanisms coupled with enough time, can evolve a species from another.

[XemnasXD]

lol thats not very weird at all an anti-christ documentary is always more entertaining than 30 min of guys screaming and stuttering "U-U-Uh his Power! I C-C-Can't believe he's so strong" there are more ppl out there like that than you think.

[Barotix]

lol thats not very weird at all an anti-christ documentary is always more entertaining than 30 min of guys screaming and stuttering "U-U-Uh his Power! I C-C-Can't believe he's so strong" there are more ppl out there like that than you think.

I went to a small private school.

[XemnasXD]

an all boys private school?

[Grandpa]

Greetings Prophet Izaach,

Thank you. You continue to earn my respect. The only word that I have to describe your response is 'honorable'.

~Granps
__________________________________________

I know Greeks knew about atoms. They did not know about isotopes, which were discovered in 1913 by Frederick Soddy, which is what I have been stressing for the last few posts.

Greetings izmeister,

We've not spoken before. From what I gather of your writings here you allege that the actual isotopes of iron were detailed in the Quran and have challenged Barotix to show how anybody prior to 1913 had similar knowledge, correct?

I'm not familiar with Islam but am connected to the internet and thought I'd give this a quick look. Will you agree that [Hadeed 57:9] can be accurately translated as:

It is He Who sends down clear verses upon His chosen bondman, in order to take you out from the realms of darkness towards light; and indeed Allah is Most Compassionate, Most Merciful upon you.

The Red Rose
I was able to find the reference you quoted, copied and pasted > HERE < but failed to find the picture of the red rose supernova in the Quran itself. Did the picture not come from NASA? The actual quote from the Quran spoke of the torn sky as an ointment, "When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose like ointment." Maybe if you found some scientific evidence of a torn sky being an ointment (like rain?) it would better support your allegation. I am fairly certain you would agree that it would be more clear.

The Isotopes
Regarding the Isotopes of Iron, did you not make a similar mistake? The article you quoted stated that the reference used to show the isotopes came from the Los Alamos Laboratory's Periodic Table of the Elements and not the Quran. What I was able to understand from the reading the Quran itself was a reference: "we Verily sent our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed (descended) iron, wherein is mighty power and many uses for mankind". When I looked for clear versus that showed what you were saying about isotopes themselves there were none. Perhaps you are able to provide more references to this because I am not familiar with the texts to do the search necessary.

The Leech
Regarding your discussion about the shape of sperm, are you in reference to sperm that have lost their 'tails' only? I've not seen leeches with tails. Do you have pictures of a leech that has an enlongated tail? Perhaps a leech with a snake attached to it's posterior would be a more apt description, right? You might not be aware of this but bulky sperm are not good swimmers and is one cause of sterility.

~Grandpa

[Barotix]

an all boys private school?

That was freshmen year of High School. middle&elementary was Coed.

[XemnasXD]

an all boys private school?

That was freshmen year of High School. middle&elementary was Coed.

oh...thats less fun -_-

[xKingpinx]

Yeah there is a god. But he's blind and deaf, and not even interested in what happens here on this little, remote, redundant planet.

yea cause he did kinda create the earth so he wants nothing to do with it...yea that makes sense...

[XemnasXD]

Yeah there is a god. But he's blind and deaf, and not even interested in what happens here on this little, remote, redundant planet.

yea cause he did kinda create the earth so he wants nothing to do with it...yea that makes sense...

didn't you ever get bored of playing with your legos...

[xKingpinx]

Yeah there is a god. But he's blind and deaf, and not even interested in what happens here on this little, remote, redundant planet.

yea cause he did kinda create the earth so he wants nothing to do with it...yea that makes sense...

didn't you ever get bored of playing with your legos...

umm wtf?

[XemnasXD]

if that was over your head then please take this time to leave the thread.