An Interesting Discussion.

[Panu]

Crims response.

You just lost, no explanation needed.

lost what?

[Goobronicus]

Crims response.

You just lost, no explanation needed.

lost what?

All validity that there was in any of his statements. He basically just used the botters most common phrase.

[TOloseGT]

lol, crim, gimme a break. how much do you really learn in a day? would it REALLY effect you if instead of hanging out wit ur friends for a couple of hours, u play teh game? no, not really. you can always hang out some other time. besides, most ppl i know play at night when everyone's at home resting.

[Axeoo7]

@ Axeoo7, your last sentence was basically "2 days of game-time wouldnt make a difference anyways" Don't lie to yourself. You and I both know 2 days of game-time would make a huge difference.

lolwut are you serious

[CrimsonNuker]

You just lost, no explanation needed.

lost what?

All validity that there was in any of his statements. He basically just used the botters most common phrase.

This is addicting.

Except when I say it, its comming from a different perspective than of a botters.

I actually meant what I said there, you think im saying it like what the botters mean "I bot because I have a life and those who dont, they dont have lives"

I'm already sensing you guys think "Hes a fucking closet botter, i know it!"

I have no comment for that because me arguing that im not a botter (im dont even play sro anymore) will just push you guys to say "hes lieing". Its like that "Do you believe in God" thread in OTL, what you say is ignored and you get something completely different thrown at you.

@ToLose, thats not what i mean. What i mean is that when you total up your game time, I want you to think what else could you have done with all that time you spent on the game full of botters, but yes that is true, i suppose i cant argue with the fact that some people go on only at night

@Axeoo7, LULWUT ARE YOU SERIOUS?, being stupid isnt hard, i can do it too

[NuclearSilo]

FFS, What's with the "spending that time to hanging out with friend or learn another thing"?

In this world, there is not just learn and study. Ppl needs to play to! We play when we got nothing to do, when we are bored, when we finished all our homework, when we are back from work. Is that wrong?

And of course, when we have chance to hang out with friend, we would. We are not going to say "im busy playing sro".

What's with the botter's mind always think we play 12/24?

[CrimsonNuker]

If you really want to enjoy a game, why are you playing SRO?

[TOloseGT]

yea, play a wownderful game

[NuclearSilo]

who said im playing sro?

[CrimsonNuker]

who said im playing sro?

Well then that makes 2 of us

[ping_lo]

Ehm, I dindnt say that player bots dont contribute to the downfall of SRO, though i did say only by a small part.

Errrrrr the only thing that even comes close to harming SRO as much as player bots is joymax's unwillingness to do anything effective. Player bots are the #1 factor in the downfall of SRO bar none. I did this math before but lets do it again since you genuinely seem to be debating totally uninformed. Those of us that have played SRO since the beginning know that the gold companies used to buy gold from players to resell. You don't see that anymore not because they are not buying gold from players to re-sell. Simply they have a few regular suppliers that have copious amounts of gold so they don't have to advertise that they are buying. Now you may say no it is the gold companies that are running the bots to get the gold but that is wrong. I used to think that way for a while as well. But all it takes is basic math to understand how likely it is that a few gold companies even run a fraction of the gold bots on SRO.

There are 30 servers with 3500 slots each which is 105000 slots total.

Use a conservative estimate and say that 75% of all slots are taken by gold bots. That is 2625 slots per server or 78750 slots total.

Use liberal estimate and say there are 5 gold companies ruining the SRO community. That means each company would run roughly 525 gold bots per server or 15750 gold bots per company total.

Again use a liberal number and say that the gold companies can run 100 gold bots per host PC. That would require 5.25 PCs per company to run the gold bots for each server. Or 157.5PCs per company to run all their gold bots for all servers.

These companies would then likely require over 787.5 PCs total to run all the gold bots on SRO. Think about that number a bit. Then consider the fact that each of these companies ruin other games besides SRO. Just on a per company basis can you imagine how much power 157.5 PCs under a 24/7 full load require? Imagine how much heat they generate. Imagine how much they cost to cool. These gold companies would require more computers and more computing power than several fairly tech heavy fortune 500 companies. Now think about how slim the profit margin is on a game where the economy is as destroyed as SROs is. These companies would have to sell in the hundreds of billions of gold just to cover annual costs and maybe if they are lucky make a tiny profit.

Now think about player bots. They level faster than they should and often require external sources of gold or at least other sources of gold than the main botted char. Now think about the fact that many botters don't have just 1 character they have several often all at the cap all needing gear etc. If one was to buy all the gold for the gear etc it is still going to be rather expensive. Now consider the fact that while all botters are inconsiderate and immature most are not just emotionally immature but physically immature as well. Pre-pubescent and unjobbed without the ability to actually buy gold accounts or items for real money. The way around that and the common thing for them to do is run a farming fleet. This is quite common practice at least on xian and is one of the primary ways the most prolific botters keep themselves supplied. Finally think which is more likely. Would a few hundred player bots running farming fleets of bots and selling off the excess gold be more likely or just the 5 companies running 787.5 PCs in massive data centers requiring expensive cooling?

If you think that the 1% darkside thing (wow i sound like a starwars freak ) thing exists then your lyin to yourself. Its human nature to want to win and to want to be better than someone else.

I think your a little naive (spellcheck?), the world isnt as beatifull as you may think.

We know this. Botters know this. People that debate about things they don't know know this. However there still is no justification for it. It is called cheating. And it does not matter if you are face to face or over the internet it is just as bad. Remember those slots those botters are taking could go to real people who want to play. Remember not all of those people those bots are KSing are bots themselves and therefore don't like to be KSed or run out of spots by a mob of unthinking uncaring bots. It is totally impossible to bot in an MMO and not effect others negatively.

And you guys are taking this to personal, its supposed to be a discussion not a flame war

People take issues that impact them personally rather personally usually. Go fig I dunno why it is not like there is any logic to i............. oh wait. Anyhow you by your own admission don't play and have not for a long time. Plus by your own admission you said you don't know anything about bots really either. So why this intense desire to debate/speculate pro-bot? It is like a battle with a pointed stick against a nuclear arsenal. Kinda futile in the end.

People are people. Sure lots of people are lazy and seek to do the least work for the most reward. That is not and there is no justification for cheating though. It does not matter how "cool" someone is. They bot they hurt us all at some point. Some people just don't care because they are botting too and use it as a justification. Others just don't care because they are oblivious to everything. That and when you have your head up your ass it is hard to see anything or hear anything with all that shit in your ears. And finally some just don't care because they don't know anything and therefore don't understand they should be upset to some degree. Everyone else is rightly pissed that they are trying to play the game as it is supposed to be but can't because of inconsidderate jerks. And that is the spectrum of people playing SRO. I leave it up to everyone to figure out which one they are.

[CloudStrider]

Tim is a skinny dorky kid who is quiet and stays to himself in the real world.

HEY!

[Barotix]

If you really want to enjoy a game, why are you playing SRO?

I enjoy SRO, maybe you don't but I do. SRO is a good game and I'm on a good server. Avalon is awesome, BHA is awesome, Blade is awesome, and so is OVK. I love helping newbies. If it wasn't for Avalon I would have quit this game a long time ago. I'm currently on hiatus. When I went on Hiatus I didn't get all pissy and d/l a bot because I would get "left behind" in leveling. TBH I don't think I've been left behind. When I have silk I blaze through my levels (3 hours out of 24 hours grinding to complete my ticket and 2 hours out of the remaining 21 pvping.) It isn't hard, it isn't difficult. I enjoy grind games like this because they take awhile to complete and soloing is relaxing (partying is exciting ).

Also make note: Just because you no longer play the game does not mean you're exempt from banishment for bot support.

[Jstar1]

think of it this way..if you are trying to get rich in the real world and you are working real hard to save your money, but your not getting far. One day, you walk into the bank and the bank vault is open and you can take as much money as you want without doing anything and you are guarenteed that no one will punish you. Who wouldn't take it?

thats why people bot in this game. This game's grinding issue is so severe people look to other ways to level. And guess what, botting is so ideal and so useful they do it. There's no other incentive other than that, ok?

[NuclearSilo]

think of it this way..if you are trying to get rich in the real world and you are working real hard to save your money, but your not getting far. One day, you walk into the bank and the bank vault is open and you can take as much money as you want without doing anything and you are guarenteed that no one will punish you. Who wouldn't take it?

thats why people bot in this game. This game's grinding issue is so severe people look to other ways to level. And guess what, botting is so ideal and so useful they do it. There's no other incentive other than that, ok?

Another fail bot-supporting argument comparison :S

Of course there will be someone that wont take it. Because there still in this world ppl who got education, morally, and they know that the money belong to other ppl. By taking it, a lot of ppl will die by poverty. While for the rest of ppl are blind of money, education learned at school isnt kept into the heart, will take that money.

This is similar to the simple case u often meet in real life: someone accidently dropped his purse. It's the time to decide which side u belong, good or bad? Good person will return the purse to the police. Bad person, blind of money, will take the money in the purse and throw it away.

Greed, selfish, blind of money is not the nature of human. Dont think that just because the majority of the population did illegal, unmoral act, that automatically means that what they did is right

Btw, who said that u wont be punished by botting?

Again, u failed pathethicly to defend the bots. There is none reason that could justify the act of botting, coz it's classified to illegal, cheating act. Even if you ask Einstein for help, he couldnt help u. The justice always stay at the side of those who suffer from what the bots caused.

If botting doesnt cause bad thing to the environment, it's ok to bot. But as long as it socially interact with other human, it's very wrong to bot.

OH NO, ANOTHER ONE IS TOO IGNORANT TO KNOW WHAT CAUSES THE FALL DOWN OF SRO!

[[TS]=Hark=[TS]]

think of it this way..if you are trying to get rich in the real world and you are working real hard to save your money, but your not getting far. One day, you walk into the bank and the bank vault is open and you can take as much money as you want without doing anything and you are guarenteed that no one will punish you. Who wouldn't take it?

thats why people bot in this game. This game's grinding issue is so severe people look to other ways to level. And guess what, botting is so ideal and so useful they do it. There's no other incentive other than that, ok?

Another fail bot-supporting argument comparison :S

Of course there will be someone that wont take it. Because there still in this world ppl who got education, morally, and they know that the money belong to other ppl. By taking it, a lot of ppl will die by poverty. While for the rest of ppl are blind of money, education learned at school isnt kept into the heart, will take that money.

This is similar to the simple case u often meet in real life: someone accidently dropped his purse. It's the time to decide which side u belong, good or bad? Good person will return the purse to the police. Bad person, blind of money, will take the money in the purse and throw it away.

Greed, selfish, blind of money is not the nature of human. Dont think that just because the majority of the population did illegal, unmoral act, that automatically means that what they did is right

Btw, who said that u wont be punished by botting?

Again, u failed pathethicly to defend the bots. There is none reason that could justify the act of botting, coz it's classified to illegal, cheating act. Even if you ask Einstein for help, he couldnt help u. The justice always stay at the side of those who suffer from what the bots caused.

If botting doesnt cause bad thing to the environment, it's ok to bot. But as long as it socially interact with other human, it's very wrong to bot.

OH NO, ANOTHER ONE IS TOO IGNORANT TO KNOW WHAT CAUSES THE FALL DOWN OF SRO!

first of all, id take the money and run. im selfish. second of all, what would you do if say with the opening of gia server game a bot released by joymax, for silk?

is that still and "unfair advantage" and be considerd cheating? you tell me. its available to everyone and not illegal.

i think silk is still an unfair advantage because not everyone can get silk. i think the real legits have never bought silk and never will. i guess you could call me, not legit then.

[Barotix]

Joymax will never release a bot for silk. The idea is absurd.

[PR0METHEUS]

Try getting out more, this might help your situation.

Why do botters and bot supporters always play the "I have a life, you legits need to get out more" card? You can be legit and have a life at the same time.

I am married, have a full time job, and two kids. We take our kids out to parks, zoos, and other places all the time. I just play SRO when I have free time. Sure, I could play more often, or join auto-share parties with my bard sub-class, or let some guild mates power level me (I've had some offers) to help me catch up, but I chose to just play by myself whenever I can. I can still play this game and have a life.

And show me a thread where cheaters mocked legits and weren't banned for it and good luck searching.

I'm somehow reminded about some of the old BF threads...

I don't support I just choose to play my own game and ignore what they do. No harm in that and if It's ban worthy from this forum well that's just laughable.

The bots might not affect you, but they certainly ruin the game for others. But I guess that's ok.

[ping_lo]

think of it this way..if you are trying to get rich in the real world and you are working real hard to save your money, but your not getting far. One day, you walk into the bank and the bank vault is open and you can take as much money as you want without doing anything and you are guarenteed that no one will punish you. Who wouldn't take it?

thats why people bot in this game. This game's grinding issue is so severe people look to other ways to level. And guess what, botting is so ideal and so useful they do it. There's no other incentive other than that, ok?

I am gonna be totally honest here. If I was starving and going to die if I didn't eat soon I would take the money for sure to feed myself. However if I was not in dire life threatening need, had a reasonably comfortable life and all the things that come with it. Like a decent roof over my head, an ok job, a functional vehicle to get me to said job, and food to get by on I would not for one simple reason. Chances are the money I take will be recouped from the pockets of those that could afford it less than me. It is not free money. Even if the person stealing it never gets caught someone has to pay somewhere. Why punish people who never did you any ill just because of your immature selfish nature? If you would take the money either way if you knew you would not get caught you are selfish scum that deserves punishment. Grow some morals there is no excuse for botting period exclamation point

[Manowar]

And show me a thread where cheaters mocked legits and weren't banned for it and good luck searching.

I'm somehow reminded about some of the old BF threads...

Even better example would be any of Godlikez posts. He was probably the reason we did our first change on our policies against bots. If you're too lazy to click the link some of his posts were like this:

keep hopping f.a.g., ill keep botting keep getting sun´s and if u ever wanna dye you can always pvp with me.

i do bot but fly doesnt, try to understand that noob

GG on wasting all ur life in a video game

[NuclearSilo]

first of all, id take the money and run. im selfish. second of all, what would you do if say with the opening of gia server game a bot released by joymax, for silk?

is that still and "unfair advantage" and be considerd cheating? you tell me. its available to everyone and not illegal.

i think silk is still an unfair advantage because not everyone can get silk. i think the real legits have never bought silk and never will. i guess you could call me, not legit then.

There u go, u just admitted the selfishness and the weakness of the bots. No shame!

JM will never sell bot with silk. It's like saying remove the punishment for muder law in the law list. If smt is unmoral, it will be unmoral 4ever. Hey! I didnt talk about legal or not legal, but the moral. Even if the owner allows smt that was illegal, it becomes legal yet it is still unmoral. It's unmoral because it causes someone else suffer. And call also that owner corrupted, there is nothing to be proud about.

Morover, allowing bot from the begining sounds absurd. Why didnt JM just let ppl create a char lvl 140 at the beginning, since no one wants to grind at all?

[Infect]

Generally the one's who say "I'm not a botter, I just don't care, bots are people too" usually get banned at some point. You can find many of them in this section.

And infect. You are a Farking retard. "We don't bot, we babysit, SO WE DONT BOT!!11!" Seriously, you have the most pathetic logic I've ever seen. Over anyone on this forum, ever. EVER. Please, go commit suicide now.

You are a pathetic retard. You dont even deserve to be allowed the rights to post on threads like this. I never expressed this opinion lol. If you had spend your time reading my whole post instead of complaining, maybe you would have caught the logic. Your just one of the whining Venus idiots. I was actually trying to put the point across that "botting doesn't reflect what type of person you are" and that "i dont have an issue with botters, because they can be just as active as any legit. I have a problem with the 24/7 afkers and goldbotters because they offer no contribution whatsoever to a community." Learn to read please.

[non ego man]

...you walk into the bank and the bank vault is open and you can take as much money as you want without doing anything and you are guarenteed that no one will punish you. Who wouldn't take it?

This is identical to Plato's "Ring of Gyges" argument. The Ring of Gyges makes you invisible and allows you to steal all the money without getting caught:

"...the man who abused the power of the Ring of Gyges has become morally bankrupt and suffered irreparable failings of character, while the man who chose willingly not to use it is at least at peace with himself."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[TOloseGT]

i would only use that ring to steal a bit of money to get by. i'll still have peace wit myself

[Barotix]

i would only use that ring to steal a bit of money to get by. i'll still have peace wit myself

You won't become addicted to the ring?

[TOloseGT]

i can't say. like it or not, i would like to have a steady income.

[Azilius]

Taking the ring already shows greed, what's to stop you from abusing it further?

[CrimsonNuker]

If you really want to enjoy a game, why are you playing SRO?

Also make note: Just because you no longer play the game does not mean you're exempt from banishment for bot support.

This is why i hate posting in EB >_>

I think ill just stick to trolling in GD from now on

[AkillerNXC]

Generally the one's who say "I'm not a botter, I just don't care, bots are people too" usually get banned at some point. You can find many of them in this section.

And infect. You are a Farking retard. "We don't bot, we babysit, SO WE DONT BOT!!11!" Seriously, you have the most pathetic logic I've ever seen. Over anyone on this forum, ever. EVER. Please, go commit suicide now.

You are a pathetic retard. You dont even deserve to be allowed the rights to post on threads like this. I never expressed this opinion lol. If you had spend your time reading my whole post instead of complaining, maybe you would have caught the logic. Your just one of the whining Venus idiots. I was actually trying to put the point across that "botting doesn't reflect what type of person you are" and that "i dont have an issue with botters, because they can be just as active as any legit. I have a problem with the 24/7 afkers and goldbotters because they offer no contribution whatsoever to a community." Learn to read please.

Oh don't get all offended. If you say that only 24/7 bots are bots, then you deserved to be flamed. If you think that a bots okay just because he babysits means its ok then **** off. And those are the even more shithole bots. They can't use the excuse "Oh i have a life so im botting"...because they're spending as much time as a legit would spend. The only difference is they are a lazy asshole that can't hit 1,2,3 and 4.

I love how botters always use the excuse "I HAVE A LIFE MYNS, YOU NEED TO GET OUT!!111" They need to get out of their bullshit fantasy that they think they're in and actually think some. It's not hard. Most bots spend more money on the effing game then any legit ever would. Most botters buy prem +, the bot, gold, and all kinds of shit. Probably over 50$ a month EASILY. So who's the one with no life then? >_<

[TOloseGT]

I think ill just stick to trolling in GD from now on

u gotta expand ur horizons

Taking the ring already shows greed, what's to stop you from abusing it further?

i'm a greedy, very nice and polite person