Do you guys believe in god?

[CloudStrider]

Nowhere did i say your beliefs were wrong, the title of the topic is do you believe in God, if you can't handle a dissenting opinion to "yes", and believe me i haven't given mine yet, you'd probably be better off stay out of the topic because your being entirely over sensitive. Im giving my beliefs based on what i've read (The bible) and while you may find it insulting and yes the term is a little crude God pretty much bitchslaps ppl constantly for the first half of the Bible no matter how you want to spin it. How should i feel about a guy who floods the entire world killing everyone and everything thats not on a special boat of ppl he hand picked to live. Should i call him nice, misunderstood, a great guy. No....he's not acting nice or good or kind or whatever. So what should i say he's acting like then...

Its not like im pulling this stuff out my ass its in the book. What would you call me if i decided i didn't like the world and wanted to restart so i killed EVERYONE except for this one guy i liked and some animals.....

you'd call me alot of things but im sure they'd all be negative. Why can't the same logic be applied when a god does it.


And yes First came the Jews they created the Tanakh which is basically the Oldtestament. Then the Christians came along and the only difference between the two was originally Christians though Jesus was the son of God, Jews did not. You could say Christianity is in a way simply a dogma of Judism, Christians made the bible. Then After that came along the Muslims, thats right, a religion not even 2000 years old and its so popular with the kids today, the Quran draws heavily from the books of the Bible and Tanakh. So Yeah

Jews them Christians then Muslims and its all the same God with a different belief structure and name. Xuchu you can pout blasphemy all you want but it doesn't change facts. Don't call me ignorant especially when im just right, makes you look like a fundamentalist.

Did I say you think my beliefs are wrong? Nope.

I just said you do not respect them very much.

AKA Cosmic Douche or W/E it was.

EDIT -- Why do I keep getting this error message!!!!!!!

Also at Crimson "The Owner" Nuker

As Stan once said on South Park "Can't Evolution be the How not the Why"

Or something like that, meaning Evo. could be very true but it does not affect God, only what some Christians that believe in Creationism.

[XemnasXD]

i call God a douche, which is imo completely understandable if you read the Old Testament, you say im disrespecting your religion and i guess i am but thats more my "beliefs" than disrespecting your religion. This guys sums up my feelings better than i can.

Some call able yet unwilling to be malevolent. I call it free will. I'm not sure I'd want God to intervene in everything He sees as wrong. That would make us little more than puppets on a string, to be corrected at every wrong move we make. How about we take responsibility for our own actions for a change?

There is no freewill if you believe in God. Everything is for a reason. Everything is a Part of his Plan. Before you were born God knew what your role in this world would be because he is all knowing, he knows the choices you will make good or bad and how they will affect you and those around you. Your life his laid out for you and so is your purpose in the eyes of God. You are a part of His plan. You call that free will. I'd say your a character in his story and your life will play out exactly the way he's written it.

[XuChu]

As Stan once said on South Park "Can't Evolution be the How not the Why"

Or something like that, meaning Evo. could be very true but it does not affect God, only what some Christians that believe in Creationism.

I believed in creationism.

[XemnasXD]

i like how XuChu completely ignored that little tidbit of history, again not responding to anything logic. I also like how Cloud ignored my question.

and if you say "If you do not believe in something is does not give you the right to insult and try to disprove that belief" I think saying im not trying to say your wrong is the same thing as saying im not trying to disprove whatever you just said.

oh the dawn is breaking...i'll finish this when i wake up if theres anything left to come back to.

[XuChu]

Hey guys,

Here's nice place to discuss religion
http://christianforums.com/

[CloudStrider]

i like how XuChu completely ignored that little tidbit of history, again not responding to anything logic. I also like how Cloud ignored my question.

and if you say "If you do not believe in something is does not give you the right to insult and try to disprove that belief" I think saying im not trying to say your wrong is the same thing as saying im not trying to disprove whatever you just said.

oh the dawn is breaking...i'll finish this when i wake up if theres anything left to come back to.

Disprove means using logic to debunk something.

You were using knowledge to point out flaws in an religion, I was not saying anything different, get it?

Now, no need to get pissy I was just trying to show you that you do not need to force "Good is a cosmic douche" unto to people, just let people believe in what they want.

Now please address the full of my post except pointing out certain things which you can rebut.

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer but you not cover them in a block of text, just straight ask them.

I don't want this to turn into a thing, I was just defending my beliefs.

Thanks.

[iGod]

Theory > Dogma

[phulshof]

There is no freewill if you believe in God. Everything is for a reason. Everything is a Part of his Plan. Before you were born God knew what your role in this world would be because he is all knowing, he knows the choices you will make good or bad and how they will affect you and those around you. Your life his laid out for you and so is your purpose in the eyes of God. You are a part of His plan. You call that free will. I'd say your a character in his story and your life will play out exactly the way he's written it.

Odd, that's not what I believe, and yet I am a Christan. If this were true, then any and all stories in the Bible in which God changed His mind must be a lie, since the "mind change" would than have been part of His plan as well. Sorry, but I don't believe in the theory that everything is a part of His plan. Please do not assume that all Christian people agree on every part of their religion. Church splits took place for a reason (although often a rather stupid one).

[rumblemilitia]

I couldnt understand unbelievers really.Most of them saying this because of being diffrent and they have no another reason to not believe.
-When bad things happen u say Ohh my god,God save us etc..U know why cuz u wanna believe some1 up there and u take care u.Ppl need to believe something create them otherwise when bad things happen there will be no1 to give ya hope.

-Another subject is why u believe in God?
U believe in god cuz ur family,ur ppl believe and then u have to believe.About religion same things valid.Ur parents r christian or muslim etc and u believe ur religion is real one and other ones r fake.
How do u know?Do u have any evidence about this?No.
Ur parents,ur ppl telling u about ur religion is real is.What if ur ppl fail about religion and u ll fail too?

-If u seek the real religion read the holly books.Research about it.

-If ya want to believe in God look around.Look the nature.How can possibe a perfect universe created by bigbang shit.Bigbang is the best stupid way to refuse god.

-God created everything.Created good things for u to understand how u should gratful to him.God created bad things to test ur loyalty.

What ever u do reseach first and talk l8tr.If u have knowlage about something so dont talk.




BTW i dont get it something.Hooly books say u ll go to hell if ya dont believe.How about ppl living before religion ages.How about first tribes?They worshipped stupid statues all the time.
If they go to heaven there will be hard times4 tribe chief.
'Hey f... chief where is god damm statue god ha'

[RiceFarmer]

See now thats the flaw

"God created everything"

Is evil not included in that?

"It is said in the bible, that god is perfect and thereby has a perfect standard, so that when he created the universe he created it perfect and with it he gave mankind perfect free will, and the choice to obey or disobey god was given to mankind because god wanted a relationship with man, and a relationships love must be chosen freely with the option of not loving. God created us human beings with free moral agency and we can choose to do good, that's the beauty of choice, and that's the beauty of love, because it is chosen.

So we know that god created a perfect world with perfect free will, and mankind chose to disobey god, and at that point the world fell away from god because god is perfect, and the world thereby became imperfect through mankinds sin, thus sin was now present in the world. So the perfection that god had once implemented onto the earth was removed, and this is known as the fall, that's when pain, death, sickness and viruses and all that stuff entered the world."

As quoted by Kent Hovind.

So to answer your question: Yes, in turn god did create evil, god loved us so much that he gave us choice. If he had forced us to love him, there would be no evil in the world, but he didn't and in turn mankind disobeyed god and thus evil was born.

God could prevent evil from happening, but why should he? he has no moral obligation to do so. Why should he stop us from suffering, when we had disobeyed him. Just because there is evil in the world though, doesn't mean god will having nothing else to do with us, those of us who repent against our sins and try our best to obey god will be rewarded, in a sinless perfect world, most of which believe will be situated in heaven.

[iGod]

You believe in god/s because you were born in an indoctrinated world(as in family) and you lack the willpower to shake off all the superstitious bullshit you've been fed since the day of your birth.

Anyways, religion is a pointless subject to discuss, neither side of the argument can win, hopefully in November everything will be answered (LHC)

[RiceFarmer]

You believe in god/s because you were born in an indoctrinated world(as in family) and you lack the willpower to shake off all the superstitious bullshit you've been fed since the day of your birth.

Anyways, religion is a pointless subject to discuss, neither side of the argument can win, hopefully in November everything will be answered (LHC)

You're an athiest because you simply don't like the thought of knowing there's an almighty being living up there that you're supposed to obey, you know there is valid evidence that he's there, but you refuse to acknowledge that and do along with your own business.

Did you like that? it's a strawman arguement, (as pointed out by VenomFangX ). Now what I wrote above may or may not be true about you, however, what you wrote is basically the same thing, a strawman arguement. You're suggesting that we all grew up as a religous fundamentalist, and none of us have ever given evolution a chance, for all you know I could've been an athiest myself but you just assumed that I wasn't because you think anyone that is arguing 'god is real' is ignorant to what ever else is out there.

Ignorance can work both ways here so don't try to pull that one out like many others here have done so before.

[iGod]

The sentence I used was a bit too harsh so you mistook me for a rebel against a superior being I guess.

What evidence?

I didn't assume anything about you, it was aimed at rumblemilitia but I forgot to note that, oh well

[Isis]

I am goddess Bastet, my father is Ra My sister is Sekhmet

No I don't believe in god

[rumblemilitia]

I am goddess Bastet, my father is Ra My sister is Sekhmet

No I don't believe in god

FACK YOUR sistar plox then

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

I am goddess Bastet, my father is Ra My sister is Sekhmet

No I don't believe in god

FACK YOUR sistar plox then

kekeke...

I can't say for sure, but everything that happens has a deeper meaning that we aren't capable to understand.

For example, a man lives in a house in suburbia and works everyday. His parents were devoted Catholics and they brought him up in the Catholic manner. On most sundays he would attend church for the liturgy. He would thank god for everything he has and the good things that happen in life. Over time he starts to forget god and make the excuse that he is busy with work. Then god lets (lets, he doesn't do it himself)some thing bad happen (eg. someone close dies, house burns down or w/e). Then the man remembers god and gets back on track of being a devoted catholic.

According to this story, God is a fuckin bully

wait...

Proof is here

Spoiler!

Religion is basically this: Live like this, or go to hell!

I don't feel like living that way. So screw that.

Edit: And in medieval terms: Live like this, or f*cking die.

Over 5 million medieval deaths have been proven to be stimulated by religious accusations

or here...

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i believe that we'd have been more advanced if it weren't for some religious feats..
we'd probably be at the lvl 140 cap by now and have islam update

[pr0klobster]

Yeesh, not this again.

Every thread that tries to examine whether or not God exists fails. We had one thread that was ok...that was about it.

I only state my own personal belief, that God does exist. I've had this conversation many, many times and stated my own personal reasons. I have examined the evidence on both sides and made a choice. I won't push my belief on people walking down the street, but I will point out the benefits and miracles in my own life to my belief. I also pray for people who are evil or jerks or just plain stupid. Will it help? Maybe.

I'll find out when I die. If I cease to exist and there's nothing there, then I won't know anyway because I probably wouldn't have any consciousness. If my "soul" goes to Heaven, great, fantastic.

This is why it's called "faith".

No more input from me, though. You guys have fun.

[Grandpa]

I've pretty much stayed away from this "discussion" because the first 2 or 3 pages of posts showed no sign of intelligence. "My philosophy is bigger than yours," and, "My philosophy can beat your philosophy," does not well express the spirit of love.

What would happen if people who had been called by God obeyed Him? What would happen if they cleaned the inside of their own cup and stopped looking outwards for sin and disbelief?

I grew up in a family with five (5) kids. Sunday supper came along and without fail we (all seven of us) would sit down to supper. Suppertime together was a time for family. I've reflected on this more than once because even though we were all members of that same family, even though we were each there at the same table, heard the exact same things and shared our meal in peace - each member came away with a different set of feelings, and a different 'take' on what had been discussed.

Each member, sitting at the same table, eating the same food, sharing the exact same conversation would come away with a completely different understanding.

You can't disregard the way a personal feels or what that person thinks just because you don't come up to the same conclusion. I used to think that all religious people were idiots and ignorant - I was wrong. What I learned is that no single person will come up with the same conclusions after having lived, understood, or read the same exact things. You can't judge someone for believing in something different than you.

_____________________________________________________________
Are we not sitting at a different sort of table here?
Are we not sharing the same food even as we reach to consider the thoughts of others?
Are we surprised when we disagree? We (the members of SRF) shouldn't be.

When I consider the beginnings of the universe (from what I've been taught about the Big Bang) several things occur to me. The phrase "big bang" itself was coined by a theist. He didn't use it in a kind way. Approximately 1/10,000 of a second after the bang all matter was expanding rapidly (that's an understatement) and would be described as a 'gas'. At that moment, there were no stars, no planets, no day or night as we know it.

Currently the best understanding of the first seconds of the universe include Supermassive Black Holes. They too were caught in the expansion of space-time. It is thought that at the center of every galaxy today there is a Supermassive Black Hole. There are direct correlations between the galaxy size and the mass of their central black holes. Further, there are correlations between the speeds of the stars at the outside of galaxies and the central supermassive black holes. At distances greater then 100,000 light years, gravity isn't the cause, it's a mystery.

We have no cohesive theories that can encompass all the facts. My thoughts consider the very short length of time mankind has been studying these things. Attempting to peer back into things that happened perhaps billions of years ago for a couple moments (or even 5 years for that matter) and expecting perfect results is ridiculous.

When I turn to the Bible to examine the state of the universe from what God has said directly, I see very little written about it. Mostly what I see is a love song, written to mankind. In the beginning... God created...

... And the earth was Tohuw and Bohuw.
... And the earth was without form (Tohuw) and void (Bohuw).
Formlessness
Emptiness

It doesn't take a great stretch of my imagination to reconcile the two thoughts. Formless gas is Tohuw, Black holes are Bohuw. If our God is a God of reconciliation, why then, are His children so inept? When we consider Abrahamic religions we find that most of the people who inhabit the world we live in are people of faith. God promised. Abram believed. Members of his family include Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Today, there are around 3.8 billion followers of various Abrahamic religions.

We sit at the same table.
We eat the same food.
Partake in the same conversations.
We are members of one family.
The family of faith.

Yes, my own little family comprised of seven (7) members had arguments.
Yes, at different times we actually fought.
In the end, we loved each other.

We (members of the family of faith) have all been instructed by our Father. Do we know Him?

I don't. It is my hope that one day (while the day is still called "day") I will.

[takolin]

I am goddess Bastet, my father is Ra My sister is Sekhmet

No I don't believe in god

If I play Horus, will you do me?

[Da_Realest]

Non-believers can't argue with believers because of faith. That one word kills any possible arguments that could lead to a "real" answer. The only thing non-believers can do is get the lesser minded believers into a heated argument. In doing so, the lesser minded believer usually slips up after some point in time and says something that contradicts their faith. The non-believer usually precedes to disecting the believer's error, attempting to use it as evidence that God does not exist.

If an argument between a non-believer and a believer is started to simply prove that one type of thinking is inferior to another, I believe that arguement is a waste of time. Again, because of their faith or lack thereof, you can only hope to understand the reasons behind their particular belief. Non-believers and believers may be better off arguing with a radical skeptic.

Empirical agnosticism FTW...

[magisuns]

the catholic bible is rewritten so much with age its hard to believe half of it anymore.


Just read revelations. Its seems so awkwardly planned that i bet half of it could have been altered with time.

[CrimsonNuker]

@ CloudStrider

When the hell did i say anything about evolution?

ATHEISTS ARE AN ANTI-PROPHET ORGANIZATION


lululul

[XuChu]

You believe in god/s because you were born in an indoctrinated world(as in family) and you lack the willpower to shake off all the superstitious bullshit you've been fed since the day of your birth.

Actually, I come from an atheist background and so do many.

[XemnasXD]

You believe in god/s because you were born in an indoctrinated world(as in family) and you lack the willpower to shake off all the superstitious bullshit you've been fed since the day of your birth.

Actually, I come from an atheist background and so do many.

many more do not. As you already pointed out 84% of the planet believes in some type of God which means 84 percent of the planet will be born into a family that practices religion.

"It is said in the bible, that god is perfect and thereby has a perfect standard, so that when he created the universe he created it perfect and with it he gave mankind perfect free will, and the choice to obey or disobey god was given to mankind because god wanted a relationship with man, and a relationships love must be chosen freely with the option of not loving. God created us human beings with free moral agency and we can choose to do good, that's the beauty of choice, and that's the beauty of love, because it is chosen.

So we know that god created a perfect world with perfect free will, and mankind chose to disobey god, and at that point the world fell away from god because god is perfect, and the world thereby became imperfect through mankinds sin, thus sin was now present in the world. So the perfection that god had once implemented onto the earth was removed, and this is known as the fall, that's when pain, death, sickness and viruses and all that stuff entered the world."

Thats all well and good but God is all knowing therefore he created mankind knowing they would sin. Everyday he creates people he knows will sin, murder, and rape. He then punishes these people for the choices he knew they would make when he created them. Where is the logic in that. And mankind did not create evil, evil was first brought into the world by the Angel Lucifer. God created Lucifer and because he is all knowing how could he not know that Lucifer would rebel against him and later appear in the garden to tempt eve with original sin. Because of Lucifer the "perfect world" God created was poisoned from the start.

And tbh its not really a choice, its either you love God or you go to hell. Thats what you call love. If a husband told his wife either you worship me or im going to lock you in the basement forever would you call that love? The same logic applies. If he loves us so much why punish us for making the choice not to love him?

[Reise]

Some call able yet unwilling to be malevolent. I call it free will. I'm not sure I'd want God to intervene in everything He sees as wrong. That would make us little more than puppets on a string, to be corrected at every wrong move we make. How about we take responsibility for our own actions for a change?

Man has no one to blame other than ourselves for the origin of evil in this world.

You have to admit though, it is comical to think a God would punish his creation for the sins they commit, which at its very fundamental base, is God's responsibility for creating in the first place.

The only other way to take this is to believe God treats us like his toys, which have been manipulated and directed to act by his ruling and nothing else.

Personally I still hold true to the idea that religion was invented by man to create control and structure in pre-governmental society.

[crazyskwrls]

And tbh its not really a choice, its either you love God or you go to hell. Thats what you call love. If a husband told his wife either you worship me or im going to lock you in the basement forever would you call that love? The same logic applies. If he loves us so much why punish us for making the choice not to love him?

yes

@chu

yes, many of the arguments are stickman arugements, but is your argument not a stickman? you say that god is blah blah blah and you point out a specific passage in the bible where he said that, but does that matter? atheist dont care if god said that, you can not prove the bible is true or false. I believe the believers should try go poke holes in evolutionism/big bang and not use the bible to say that evo/bb is wrong. same goes for the non-believers, i think we should poke hole in the holy texts rather than saying evolution is right because scientist said so.

also you said god is perfect but he is not perfectly enough to create humans that can willingly accept him, so punish us. Because he is not able to create perfect creatures he punishes the imperfect creatures... so i guess if i have a child and he does not listen to me, i can kill him with no moral obligations because i created him?

[Tasdik]

Gods plan can't be understood [completely] by mankind. Some blame god for pain and suffering. However they are blinded by ignorance. The life that we are living is only temporary, what waits us in the future [afterlife or w/e you want to call it] depends on what happens with our lives here on Earth. I can't say for sure, but everything that happens has a deeper meaning that we aren't capable to understand.

For example, a man lives in a house in suburbia and works everyday. His parents were devoted Catholics and they brought him up in the Catholic manner. On most sundays he would attend church for the liturgy. He would thank god for everything he has and the good things that happen in life. Over time he starts to forget god and make the excuse that he is busy with work. Then god lets (lets, he doesn't do it himself)some thing bad happen (eg. someone close dies, house burns down or w/e). Then the man remembers god and gets back on track of being a devoted catholic.

The next point I want to point out is time. According to the bible god has always existed. He created time, meaning that nothing *made* god as he was always there. An argument to this is that time is infinite, however according to the apocalypse this world will end. Meaning time (according to the holy scriptures) is not infinite.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just giving my opinion/argument.

I pretty much agree with everything you said

[Homie]

He would thank god for everything he has and the good things that happen in life. Over time he starts to forget god and make the excuse that he is busy with work. Then god lets (lets, he doesn't do it himself)some thing bad happen (eg. someone close dies, house burns down or w/e). Then the man remembers god and gets back on track of being a devoted catholic.

That's some messed up sh1t.

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[mobster voice]"You know Tony, you haven't been following my orders. We wouldn't want anyone to get hurt."

[/mobster voice]
Tony slowly stopped following the mob boss and he (the mob boss) just "let" some bad things happen. =[

[Tasdik]

Oh and I find it somewhat funny that everyone talks about God in the old testament and call Him a terrible person pretty much....but they seem to ignore that His son *who came in the new testament* was the nicest guy out there...and oh wait...The Father and the Son are one *meaning the same*

+ another intersting thing to notice is that the Bible is the oldest most accurate historical document around today...is it just a coinsidence that this is also God's written word?
I think not.

[Homie]

Oh and I find it somewhat funny that everyone talks about God in the old testament and call Him a terrible person pretty much....but they seem to ignore that His son *who came in the new testament* was the nicest guy out there...and oh wait...The Father and the Son are one *meaning the same*

+ another intersting thing to notice is that the Bible is the oldest most accurate historical document around today...(is it just a coinsidence that this is also God's written word?)
I think not.

@underlined, Not really that important when you think about it:
God of the old testament: Mean spirited Deity.
Jesus of the New Testament: Buddha of Israel.
Them being the same "thing" doesn't change the fact that at one point "it" was a mean spirited jerk and when "it" manifested itself in human form "it" became a nice guy. In retrospect, he's still a jerk.

@Italics, that's really debatable.
@Bold, so is that.
@parenthesis, ....I don't see your point.